2023/2024 Blue Bombers Off-Season Thread (BRADY’S BACK! DALTON’S BACK!)

[Geebrr]

5 hours ago, JCon said:

I love the kid, but I love the Bombers more. 

Yeah. 

If he is looking for bank it shouldn’t be here. 

“Reset the market” somewhere else. That is free agency stuff. 
 

 

[Booch]

44 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Bombers can afford Schoen and Lawler as much as any team can afford two great receivers. SMS is going up a bit, and Schoen likely gives us the hometown discount to stay. KW will make the salaries work....always has...and you Rider fans will cry foul about it.

 

Brady O is the most consistent since Pringle, but most dominant? Nope. I don't think so. Cornish and Harris were much more dominant in their prime. Brady O lacks that consistent big run potential. He runs consistently for average, but he needs to be fed the rock a lot to pile up yardage.  I honestly believe a guy like Stanback, Brown, Carey getting 20 touches a game behind our OL would see very similar results. Brady O had almost a 100 touches more than these guys behind a far better OL.

Yup...James Butler behind our line would have put up gaudy numbers with the same touches...Carey and Standback as well....Brady is good.....dont get me wrong but he's a work horse back who with lots of touches...produces...and produces well

But unlike some backs...he's not a threat to rip off a 40..50...60 yarder for a score...but he will get you that score in 4..5 combined touches....and is an ideal back to grind a team don late in a game....but a guy like Standback...Carey...Deirtich Mills would do the same thing too put in the same circumstance

[Geebrr]

He made a big deal about how his success was a team accomplishment and that he doesn’t see WRs blocking on other teams like he does here. 
 

Well it isn’t because they aren’t being asked to. So hopefully he can motivate them - for his sake. 

[Booch]

13 minutes ago, Geebrr said:

Yeah. 

If he is looking for bank it shouldn’t be here. 

“Reset the market” somewhere else. That is free agency stuff. 
 

 

yup...thinking and wanting that.....is fine but coming out and stating that, and it being your intention....not such a smart tactic/move

[Geebrr]

4 minutes ago, Booch said:

yup...thinking and wanting that.....is fine but coming out and stating that, and it being your intention....not such a smart tactic/move

Agreed.

[SpeedFlex27]

5 hours ago, wbbfan said:

On a crazy side note, if we signed strevy to a 200k deal and started him at rb while having him as a back up qb, any one think he would run for less than 1200 yards? Imagine those gadget designs lol. Maybe roster an ni qb who can do some thing else as qb3. 

He won't sign as a running back. He'd be a qb only. Why would he come here to be a gadget qb? He could probably sign with another CFL team to be their starter. 

[Geebrr]

38 minutes ago, Booch said:

yup...thinking and wanting that.....is fine but coming out and stating that, and it being your intention....not such a smart tactic/move

It doesn’t really fit into what other guys have said and done to stay here. 
 

I can remember two years ago Brady went on a podcast and said he wanted to get paid , and that was before he had really done that much. 
 

That’s fine, I’m never mad at a guy wanting to get paid, but I don’t really get attached to those players in the same way.  It is a business. If you gotta go, you gotta go. 
 

I would say it didn’t work out very good for Lawler (in Edmonton) or Lewis (they clearly didn’t need him). 
 

 

 

Edited December 13, 2023 by Geebrr

[JuranBoldenRules]

Oliviera won't get close to 200k.

Everyone understands that RB is the position most at risk of injury as well as being the most replaceable on the field.  Nobody will commit those dollars to one player at that position.  A handful of coaches/GM's don't believe in using Canadian backs as primary guys still because of the depth issues it can cause (you basically need to build your roster prepared to run an American back even if you have a Canadian starter).

I think the absolute ceiling would be 160 hard money (this could be structured with a significant amount for reporting) with another 40-50 in performance/play time bonuses.

[HardCoreBlue]

7 hours ago, JCon said:

I love the kid, but I love the Bombers more. 

Perfectly said. No one individual is more important than the team.

Edited December 13, 2023 by HardCoreBlue

[Jesse]

3 hours ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

Oliviera won't get close to 200k.

Everyone understands that RB is the position most at risk of injury as well as being the most replaceable on the field.  Nobody will commit those dollars to one player at that position.  A handful of coaches/GM's don't believe in using Canadian backs as primary guys still because of the depth issues it can cause (you basically need to build your roster prepared to run an American back even if you have a Canadian starter).

I think the absolute ceiling would be 160 hard money (this could be structured with a significant amount for reporting) with another 40-50 in performance/play time bonuses.

Harris and Stanback have already got 170k.

Edited December 14, 2023 by Jesse

[SpeedFlex27]

24 minutes ago, Jesse said:

Harris and Stanbafk have already got 170k.

Based on that, he'll probably want $200,000. The question is, will Walters pay it. Schoen has to be his Number one signing priority followed by Brady. As people say, the backfield can be flipped American quite easily. 

[Jesse]

1 hour ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Based on that, he'll probably want $200,000. The question is, will Walters pay it. Schoen has to be his Number one signing priority followed by Brady. As people say, the backfield can be flipped American quite easily. 

His comments make it seem as if he’s going to go to the highest bidder. I’m sure we get the right of first refusal, but at what point does tying money up in the RB position begin to hurt you?

I want to say that we should let Schoen walk. That you can’t invest so much into two receivers. But obviously we’re investing so much into Collaros, we need to surround him with weapons.

[rebusrankin]

Hypothetically, if Brady wants $225,000, are we better signing a guy like Logan from Calgary for $100,000 and bringing in a rookie at $70,000 to pair with him? My initial thought is yes but what do I know. I do wish the CFL published salaries like other major sports.

[Jesse]

16 minutes ago, rebusrankin said:

Hypothetically, if Brady wants $225,000, are we better signing a guy like Logan from Calgary for $100,000 and bringing in a rookie at $70,000 to pair with him? My initial thought is yes but what do I know. I do wish the CFL published salaries like other major sports.

I wouldn't sign Logan, but that's a good example. 

I want Brady. I know the Bombers do too. And we will sign him for more than he is actually worth to our on-field team value, because we want him so bad. But there's a point where it moves beyond, "not a value contract" to, "this is detrimental to the rest of our team". And Schoen needing an even bigger bump in pay than Brady is a huge shadow on this whole thing.

In conclusion, I really hope there is more 2023 cap room available for some 2024 bonuses to slip into. The lack of signings is starting to worry me.

[17to85]

33 minutes ago, Jesse said:

want to say that we should let Schoen walk. That you can’t invest so much into two receivers. But obviously we’re investing so much into Collaros, we need to surround him with weapons.

call me crazy but I'd keep schoen ahead of lawler. Schoen is just so smooth out there. He gets open for fun. Yes Lawler has more of that big play highlight reel catch ability... but give me the guy like schoen any day (I'd keep both for the record)

[Jesse]

5 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

call me crazy but I'd keep schoen ahead of lawler. Schoen is just so smooth out there. He gets open for fun. Yes Lawler has more of that big play highlight reel catch ability... but give me the guy like schoen any day (I'd keep both for the record)

Schoen is also my clear 1A to Lawler's 1B.

Along with everything you said, Lawler has never been available for a full season. He hit 1000 yards once, along with a handful of 900 seasons.

I just can't see the Bombers moving on from Lawler (though I expect Walters to be talking to him right now to see if any arrangements can be made).

Edited December 14, 2023 by Jesse

[BBlink]

1 hour ago, 17to85 said:

call me crazy but I'd keep schoen ahead of lawler. Schoen is just so smooth out there. He gets open for fun. Yes Lawler has more of that big play highlight reel catch ability... but give me the guy like schoen any day (I'd keep both for the record)

I don't think Lawler had a great year this year for whatever reason (there were a few) . He was a top prize in FA for a reason. In Edmonton he was getting open a lot. IMO he can give similar or better production than Schoen of he can get back to form. 

[Fatty Liver]

1 hour ago, Jesse said:

Schoen is also my clear 1A to Lawler's 1B.

Along with everything you said, Lawler has never been available for a full season. He hit 1000 yards once, along with a handful of 900 seasons.

I just can't see the Bombers moving on from Lawler (though I expect Walters to be talking to him right now to see if any arrangements can be made).

I don't know, the only angle I can see Walters taking that would reduce Lawler's salary, is pointing out the immigration fiasco that kept him on the sidelines for 6 games reduced his value to the team.  He did play well when he played, and Walters offered him the big contract and he accepted, so unless Walters wants to look bad chiseling some back, I think he sticks with the initial agreement.  Kenny might be willing to drop $20k to keep Schoen around, but he's probably not going to accept a $40k cut in pay to do so.

[Fatty Liver]

1 hour ago, Jesse said:

I wouldn't sign Logan, but that's a good example. 

I want Brady. I know the Bombers do too. And we will sign him for more than he is actually worth to our on-field team value, because we want him so bad. But there's a point where it moves beyond, "not a value contract" to, "this is detrimental to the rest of our team". And Schoen needing an even bigger bump in pay than Brady is a huge shadow on this whole thing.

In conclusion, I really hope there is more 2023 cap room available for some 2024 bonuses to slip into. The lack of signings is starting to worry me.

Mills has more power at 225 lbs., he'd be a better fit than Logan who is more of a quick scat back and returner, weighing in under 200 lbs..

[Fatty Liver]

3 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Based on that, he'll probably want $200,000. The question is, will Walters pay it. Schoen has to be his Number one signing priority followed by Brady. As people say, the backfield can be flipped American quite easily. 

Every CFL team is looking at the same economic model, not sure any of them would think it's a great idea to invest that much of their cap in a Natl. RB, I think the bidding would peter out before it reached $200k.

[Jesse]

21 minutes ago, Fatty Liver said:

I don't know, the only angle I can see Walters taking that would reduce Lawler's salary, is pointing out the immigration fiasco that kept him on the sidelines for 6 games reduced his value to the team.  He did play well when he played, and Walters offered him the big contract and he accepted, so unless Walters wants to look bad chiseling some back, I think he sticks with the initial agreement.  Kenny might be willing to drop $20k to keep Schoen around, but he's probably not going to accept a $40k cut in pay to do so.

Walters has renegotiated many players salaries before, it’s how we’ve kept the core together for so long. Even if it’s changing some of your base into a bonus to pay it out as 2023 funds.

He certainly has never looked bad for this during the many occasions he’s already down this.

[GCn20]

15 hours ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

Oliviera won't get close to 200k.

Everyone understands that RB is the position most at risk of injury as well as being the most replaceable on the field.  Nobody will commit those dollars to one player at that position.  A handful of coaches/GM's don't believe in using Canadian backs as primary guys still because of the depth issues it can cause (you basically need to build your roster prepared to run an American back even if you have a Canadian starter).

I think the absolute ceiling would be 160 hard money (this could be structured with a significant amount for reporting) with another 40-50 in performance/play time bonuses.

I agree. I don't even believe the ceiling would be that high. Historically, the CFL just does not put that kind of dollar figure on RBs. Hell, even the NFL doesn't. It's a fact of life of football. If Cornish or Harris couldn't re-write the pay scale for RBs I am unclear why Brady thinks he will? In 2019 Harris was pretty much a shoe-in for MOP if he doesn't get caught for PEDs and that didn't even come close to netting him crazy dollars on his next contract. Cornish was a freak of nature for a few years with Calgary and couldn't get into the upper echelon of contracts around the league.....and I love Brady O...but he is no Jon Cornish in his prime.

14 hours ago, Jesse said:

Harris and Stanback have already got 170k.

170k is about what Brady will get. No one is saying he will get `150k....but there is almost no chance he goes 200.

[GCn20]

10 hours ago, Fatty Liver said:

Every CFL team is looking at the same economic model, not sure any of them would think it's a great idea to invest that much of their cap in a Natl. RB, I think the bidding would peter out before it reached $200k.

I believe that to be true as well. There is a pivot point on RB importance and it will not reach 200k. Working against Brady is the fact that no team in the league is as committed to the run as we are. GMs will also point to the fact that Brady O, although really good, is a product of getting 80-100 more touches than other leading rushers in this league.  For average Brady is 2nd in the league, with about another 3-4 guys nipping on his heels. That won't inspire a 200k offer imo. Whether it is fair or not, GMs will always have it in the back of their mind that Brady's numbers are influenced greatly by the system he plays in, and the outstanding blocking he receives. Does anyone really think that Brady is a MOP candidate with the Riders or Esks for instance? He's a money in the bank 1000 yard rusher, don't get me wrong, but for 200k a year you have to have that breakaway game changing ability and I just don't see that from Brady.

Edited December 14, 2023 by GCn20

[Jesse]

40 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

170k is about what Brady will get. No one is saying he will get `150k....but there is almost no chance he goes 200.

I think it's reasonable to think Brady will beat 170k.

[Booch]

Logan would kill it behind our line and in our scheme....plus he would bring that explosive speed out of the back field and also be your back up returner in game.....I'd sign him for 100k and let BO walk for 185 ....Schoen is a priority sign anyway you slice it...Him and Lawler together...all yr would be lethal, and who cares who else u roster with them and Demski/Woli.....has to be done

Much as BO is a great story, local kid....yadda tadda....we can survive just fine with an import there...and would really help our SMS and roster configuration