2023/2024 CFL (Non Bombers) Off Season News

[Tracker]

59 minutes ago, ShyGuy said:

Why does it have to go to court?

Both the CFL and the Argos will definitely have a harassment policy. The CFL Contracts may have a character clause.

The courts are going to test: Is this a human rights offense? Was she wrongfully terminated?

 

What if everything that is recorded in the lawsuit happened exactly as described BUT the courts find that Kelly's actions didn't rise to the level of infringing on her human rights and due to the nature of her rolling contract the Argos were within their rights to not renew it. Does Kelly just get a pat on the back and told not to do it again or should their be consequences to someone's shitty actions. If you go directly to her (former) supervisor and he confirms that this is exactly what happens, don't you have grounds to act without hearing the courts?

The employer has not only a right but a duty to protect employees from a toxic workplace, and can be named jointly in any civil suit if they did not act according to team/league/ societal standards. And remember- in a civil suit the plaintiff does not have to establish proof beyond a reasonable doubt, but just a simple preponderance of evidence. 

[GCn20]

Toss Kelly out of the league. He can go play with G.Marino. This isn't unlawful dismissal unfortunately but the victim had every right to be protected from a predator, and if the Argos and the CFL have any moral compass they will dismiss Kelly.

Edited February 25 by GCn20

[WBBFanWest]

2 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

The league can't act on heresay or a lawsuit. This will have to go to court.

Not at all true.  An employer can initiate their own investigation.  They can also suspend anyone involved until such time as the investigation concludes.  It's actually a good idea to do so, for liability purposes.

[SpeedFlex27]

37 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Toss Kelly out of the league. He can go play with G.Marino. This isn't unlawful dismissal unfortunately but the victim had every right to be protected from a predator, and if the Argos and the CFL have any moral compass they will dismiss Kelly.

Just for the sake of argument, What if the allegations by this coach are found to be not true & the Argos had already tossed Kelly on heresay to placate the fans of other teams calling for his blood. MLSE would be dragged into court & sued for millions of dollars in damages by Kelly. And while it's true MLSE has hundreds of millions of dollars that any judgement found against it would be but a pittance, the damage to the brand would be far, far worse. Let's see what the CFL does about this. 

I'm not taking Kelly's side. I'm just playing Devil's Advocate here for the sake of discussion. 

[WBBFanWest]

8 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Just for the sake of argument, What if the allegations by this coach are found to be not true & the Argos had already tossed Kelly on heresay to placate the fans of other teams calling for his blood. MLSE would be dragged into court & sued for millions of dollars in damages by Kelly. And while it's true MLSE has hundreds of millions of dollars that any judgement found against it would be but a pittance, the damage to the brand would be far, far worse. Let's see what the CFL does about this. 

I'm not taking Kelly's side. I'm just playing Devil's Advocate here for the sake of discussion. 

You don't turf him.  You suspend him.

[TrueBlue4ever]

2 hours ago, WBBFanWest said:

You don't turf him.  You suspend him.

For how long? Until the court case is done? Remember that the team itself has been named as part of the lawsuit, so it’s not as simple as “until their internal investigation is done”, since they are part of their own investigation. Do you think they will rule against themselves and admit wrongdoing if they plan to contest the civil suit? And suppose they find Kelly did wrong in their investigation and then he is cleared civilly in the suit - does he then have a wrongful termination suit against them? Or vice versa, they find he did no wrong and he loses the civil suit, does the employee get extra damages in another defamation suit against the club? Or does the court get tainted by the club’s findings, one way or another? 

Too many folks here ready to tar and feather based on half the story only told so far from one side and not be patient enough to let the judicial process play out. Harmful to both sides. 

[ShyGuy]

3 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Just for the sake of argument, What if the allegations by this coach are found to be not true & the Argos had already tossed Kelly on heresay to placate the fans of other teams calling for his blood. MLSE would be dragged into court & sued for millions of dollars in damages by Kelly. And while it's true MLSE has hundreds of millions of dollars that any judgement found against it would be but a pittance, the damage to the brand would be far, far worse. Let's see what the CFL does about this. 

I'm not taking Kelly's side. I'm just playing Devil's Advocate here for the sake of discussion. 

I'm not sure if anyone in good faith is suggesting based entirely on the accusers testimony terminate or suspend anyone. But the need to wait for some sort of judgement from the courts to act is ridiculous. This allegedly happened in front of Argonauts players. Her supervisor allegedly changed her duties because of this. It was allegedly brought to the Assistant GM. These are not all wise-guys in the Mob. If her version of events are true according to the people who were there Kelly needs to go. If no-one is going to say nothing... that's an even bigger problem with the culture of that team.

 

I'm not sure how a team saying we had credible allegations of harassment brought forth which through our internal investigation we determined to be an accurate accounting of the events that happened. Based on that we terminated the employee; would be damaging to the brand.

 

Quote

And suppose they find Kelly did wrong in their investigation and then he is cleared civilly in the suit

 

I think people get too wrap up in 'legalities'. If their investigation finds that he has done wrong who cares what the courts say. Are the Argos going to trot him out on game day and be like "yeah we found that he sexually harassed his female coach, but the courts said it technically wasn't illegal, so here is he at QB1". Even if it costs a million dollars to make him go away, it is the moral thing to do. 

Edited February 25 by ShyGuy
Addressing a different quote as well

[17to85]

God the stuff with Kelly is the least of the worries. Kelly the team can deal with by suspending him and what not. The problem is the coverup and that could easily be investigated by the league and dealt with. 

[ShyGuy]

14 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

God the stuff with Kelly is the least of the worries. Kelly the team can deal with by suspending him and what not. The problem is the coverup and that could easily be investigated by the league and dealt with. 

To be honest there probably wasn't even a coverup. It sounds like she reported it to Murphy between Nov 6th (the private confrontation where she told Kelly not to speak to her about anything non-work related and he allegedly reacted... poorly) and Nov 10th (where she found out that he allegedly had indicated to someone that she was fortunate he hadn't physically harmed her). Their last game was Nov 11th and I can't imagine there was much activity for a S+C coach between then and when she didn't have her contract renewed on January 29th. He probably thought it was a problem he could just make go away with inaction.

The Argos will probably spin it such that Murphy was a bad actor who didn't follow policies and will be disciplined accordingly and then some fuzzy PR work.  

Edited February 25 by ShyGuy

[Fatty Liver]

4 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Just for the sake of argument, What if the allegations by this coach are found to be not true & the Argos had already tossed Kelly on heresay to placate the fans of other teams calling for his blood. MLSE would be dragged into court & sued for millions of dollars in damages by Kelly. And while it's true MLSE has hundreds of millions of dollars that any judgement found against it would be but a pittance, the damage to the brand would be far, far worse. Let's see what the CFL does about this. 

I'm not taking Kelly's side. I'm just playing Devil's Advocate here for the sake of discussion. 

No mention of the incident on CFL.ca at all, I suspect the CFL Board of Governors will determine how the Argos handle their response so it does not detract the CFL brand as a whole.  A quick payout for what she's asking would probably be the expedient move to make it go away.

[Stickem]

I think it's time to face the facts....the argo's have a 'loose cannon' on their club ...The history of this guy suggests it could be a mental issue....Besides the moral obligation that the team has , there now exists a criminal element as well....Until this goes through the courts a suspension of this player should be brought forward by the league ....Anything less will be seen as inaction.....I'm afraid Kelly has dug himself a hole and his history suggests this kind of thing 'could' happen again....The league going silent on this mess is deafening

[Albertabomberguy]

On 2/23/2024 at 12:57 PM, Wanna-B-Fanboy said:

No one said boys will be boys-  where are people getting this from?  No one is excusing the behaviour here... 

Different workplaces will have different degrees of risk for every facet... its important to 

 

Do they have female guards in male penitentiaries? Honest question.

Probably close to 40% of the “correctional officers” are female in male institutions 

[GCn20]

As we told Bluto last year, it was only a matter of time before Kelly's penchant for erratic behavior would rear it's ugly head again. I'm frankly surprised it took this long.

He belongs with Chris Jones, or the Riders, and that is not a ringing endorsement of his character.

Edited February 25 by GCn20

[greenrider55]

29 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

As we told Bluto last year, it was only a matter of time before Kelly's penchant for erratic behavior would rear it's ugly head again. I'm frankly surprised it took this long.

He belongs with Chris Jones, or the Riders, and that is not a ringing endorsement of his character.

You’re a clown. Every team has had an incident with a player, a DUI is one thing, sexually harassing team staff is another. 
 

To say he belongs with the Riders is an absolutely idiotic statement. Not shocking coming from you though.

[GCn20]

1 hour ago, greenrider55 said:

You’re a clown. Every team has had an incident with a player, a DUI is one thing, sexually harassing team staff is another. 
 

To say he belongs with the Riders is an absolutely idiotic statement. Not shocking coming from you though.

Take a look at the malcontents and head cases your team has regularly employed over the past several years. It's not idiotic to hold your team to account for it. You Rider fans should do the same.

Don't give me the holier than thou bullshit from a fan base that felt Marino was a martyr. Sorry if anyone is a bunch of clowns and idiots, it is an organization that stood behind that player and a fan base who felt he was unfairly persecuted.

Not even going to get into Nick Marshall's status as a gun toting member of a violent gang, that was public knowledge for years. 

I will wear your disdain like a badge of honor, knowing the truth hurt your feelers.

Edited February 25 by GCn20

[HardCoreBlue]

1 hour ago, greenrider55 said:

You’re a clown. Every team has had an incident with a player, a DUI is one thing, sexually harassing team staff is another. 
 

To say he belongs with the Riders is an absolutely idiotic statement. Not shocking coming from you though.

Someone's feisty.

I'm with you on the every team thing but Riders do suck. 🙂

[GCn20]

3 minutes ago, HardCoreBlue said:

Someone's feisty.

I'm with you on the every team thing but Riders do suck. 🙂

And do regularly employ players of poor character. That's not my fault. Misdirected anger methinks. Nick Marshall the crip for crissakes.

Edited February 25 by GCn20

[wbbfan]

1 hour ago, greenrider55 said:

You’re a clown. Every team has had an incident with a player, a DUI is one thing, sexually harassing team staff is another. 
 

To say he belongs with the Riders is an absolutely idiotic statement. Not shocking coming from you though.

Tbh under the previous regimes it’s not out of line. 
 The riders tried to sign that lber who got cut from the nfl for a horrid domestic violence under **** n oday and the cfl barred the contract and him from signing more. Going back to jones and even previous admins horrible people have been given a chance by the riders or employed by them. 
 

That said with a new from out side coaching staff we can’t say if the toxicity will continue. I don’t think it will any where near the level it has in the past.  But the precedent does exist. 
 
 

[GCn20]

2 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

Tbh under the previous regimes it’s not out of line. 
 The riders tried to sign that lber who got cut from the nfl for a horrid domestic violence under **** n oday and the cfl barred the contract and him from signing more. Going back to jones and even previous admins horrible people have been given a chance by the riders or employed by them. 
 

That said with a new from out side coaching staff we can’t say if the toxicity will continue. I don’t think it will any where near the level it has in the past.  But the precedent does exist. 
 
 

Yep Marino..Marshall..the list goes on and on.

[GCn20]

14 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

Tbh under the previous regimes it’s not out of line. 
 The riders tried to sign that lber who got cut from the nfl for a horrid domestic violence under **** n oday and the cfl barred the contract and him from signing more. Going back to jones and even previous admins horrible people have been given a chance by the riders or employed by them. 
 

That said with a new from out side coaching staff we can’t say if the toxicity will continue. I don’t think it will any where near the level it has in the past.  But the precedent does exist. 
 
 

Coaching is different, but same GM that gleefully signed Nick Marshall to contract after contract despite tweeting pics in gang colors holding a hand gun. One could make a pretty coherent argument that is worse than Kelly's behavior.

Edited February 25 by GCn20

[Albertabomberguy]

14 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Yep Marino..Marshall..the list goes on and on.

It’s going back a bit but….Trevis Smith and Eric Tillman

[GCn20]

4 minutes ago, Albertabomberguy said:

It’s going back a bit but….Trevis Smith and Eric Tillman

Exactly. Things were of such low moral standard over there that they felt the need to publicly create a code of conduct due to fan outrage, which they immediately refused to enforce in subsequent years.

But hey bring it up and a Riderfan will pull his head out of the sand just long enough to call you an idiot before immediately sticking his head back in. Oblivious thy name is Rider fans.

Edited February 25 by GCn20

[wbbfan]

1 hour ago, GCn20 said:

Coaching is different, but same GM that gleefully signed Nick Marshall to contract after contract despite tweeting pics in gang colors holding a hand gun. One could make a pretty coherent argument that is worse than Kelly's behavior.

Yeah oday has to go one day. 
 The list of stuff is soo long even if Marshall isn’t worse I have no doubt you could find some thing worse in that era. 
 

1 hour ago, Albertabomberguy said:

It’s going back a bit but….Trevis Smith and Eric Tillman

What a dumpster fire that all was. 
 

Sure seems like we are stuck with constantly having problematic toxic management and cheap ass dirty players kicking around. 
 Idk if it was ever better or if we just never heard about stuff. But it seems like the league isn’t interested in taking fixing it. 

[SpeedFlex27]

6 hours ago, Stickem said:

I think it's time to face the facts....the argo's have a 'loose cannon' on their club ...The history of this guy suggests it could be a mental issue....Besides the moral obligation that the team has , there now exists a criminal element as well....Until this goes through the courts a suspension of this player should be brought forward by the league ....Anything less will be seen as inaction.....I'm afraid Kelly has dug himself a hole and his history suggests this kind of thing 'could' happen again....The league going silent on this mess is deafening

Randy Ambrosie is a coward. The shittiest Commissioner the CFL has ever had.  Oh look, an Ambrosie sighting coming out of his cave. 

 

[GCn20]

52 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Randy Ambrosie is a coward. The shittiest Commissioner the CFL has ever had.  Oh look, an Ambrosie sighting coming out of his cave. 

 

Qft...took him how many attempts to injure before he finally forced the Riders to release Marino.