2023/2024 CFL (Non Bombers) Off Season News

[Geebrr]

Barker needs to read the room. I’m not really sure why this is the hill he wants to plant his flag on?

The league was doing everything possible in the hopes this disappeared.

Plus, the schedule was probably **** because of his team’s availability, just like always. 

Get off it, Man. 
 

 

 

[TBURGESS]

1 hour ago, 17to85 said:

Equality = equal outcomes in most of the accepted definitions 

No wonder you hold your opinion, you don't know the difference between Equality and Equity. 

WHAT IS EQUITY?

The term “equity” refers to fairness and justice and is distinguished from equality: Whereas equality means providing the same to all, equity means recognizing that we do not all start from the same place and must acknowledge and make adjustments to imbalances. The process is ongoing, requiring us to identify and overcome intentional and unintentional barriers arising from bias or systemic structures.

It's obvious how equality doesn't apply. Can you explain how equity applies to this conversation? 

[Jesse]

3 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

No wonder you hold your opinion, you don't know the difference between Equality and Equity. 

WHAT IS EQUITY?

The term “equity” refers to fairness and justice and is distinguished from equality: Whereas equality means providing the same to all, equity means recognizing that we do not all start from the same place and must acknowledge and make adjustments to imbalances. The process is ongoing, requiring us to identify and overcome intentional and unintentional barriers arising from bias or systemic structures.

It's obvious how equality doesn't apply. Can you explain how equity applies to this conversation? 

Can you just pretend everyone is saying equity and stop arguing the point then?

[Stickem]

Sometimes people get on the wrong side of an issue....There could be a reason ...either vested interest and or blind loyalty....I think Barker is sticking his neck and reputation out a mile.....That usually results in a bad end and the axe could fall.......What idiotic commentary from Jim ...a guy who should know better

Edited May 13 by Stickem

[TBURGESS]

40 minutes ago, Jesse said:

Can you just pretend everyone is saying equity and stop arguing the point then?

Can you tell me how equity is in play in this conversation. 

Two people complain about something the CFL does. One gets a fine. The other doesn't. Is this equal? Nope. Equitable? How?

[JuranBoldenRules]

1 minute ago, TBURGESS said:

Can you tell me how equity is in play in this conversation. 

Two people complain about something the CFL does. One gets a fine. The other doesn't. Is this equal? Nope. Equitable? How?

One person who is extremely conflicted in this current situation says he was fined but offers no context or substance with it (like "I was fined in 2012 for complaining about the schedule") and there's no record of the fine easily found online.

Why are you so far up Barker's butt?

[blue85gold]

1 minute ago, TBURGESS said:

Can you tell me how equity is in play in this conversation. 

Two people complain about something the CFL does. One gets a fine. The other doesn't. Is this equal? Nope. Equitable? How?

You can't figure out how equity comes into play when a woman in a male dominated league is sexually harassed and then other women who work in the league speak out against how the team and league handled the situation? 

In what universe should people speaking out against sexual harassment and league's response be treated equally to a coach speaking out against how much the like their team's schedule?

Are you that obtuse?

[TBURGESS]

5 minutes ago, blue85gold said:

You can't figure out how equity comes into play when a woman in a male dominated league is sexually harassed and then other women who work in the league speak out against how the team and league handled the situation? 

In what universe should people speaking out against sexual harassment and league's response be treated equally to a coach speaking out against how much the like their team's schedule?

Are you that obtuse?

Equity is trying for equality of results. We aren't talking about equality of results here. 

Example: Giving poor schools more resources because they need more resources to achieve the same results as richer schools is equitable. Giving both schools the same is equality. 

I honestly think some people around here are simply parroting what they have been taught without actually thinking about it. 

I don't think either should be finable offences, but equality and equity would say they should. 

[Brandon]

Barker is an idiot no question about it.

On the same note people who are so trigger happy for firing the guy instantly are equally as dumb.   You just don't go around firing someone because you don't agree with their opinions, that is close minded. Everyone is entitled to what they believe in,  even if it is something far fetched and the majority of people would not agree with.

 If we are so sensitive on what people say ,  then why are we not equally sensitive on the actions that people do.  Kenny Lawler did something a million times worse then what old man Barker did. The morally right thing to do is fire Lawler and anyone who has a criminal record.  

In the real world,  Barker should get a talk with his TSN HR/management and they'll give the speech saying "as an employee you represent who you work for bla bla bla"  and get a warning and everyone moves on.   I don't want to live in a world where everyone has to keep quiet and never voice their beliefs,  that's a sad place to live in.  

 

 

[SpeedFlex27]

7 hours ago, Mike said:

I mean, I would imagine he’s *technically* right but someone needs to tell him that in a case like this, *technically* isn’t the side of the argument you want to be on.

Agreed. I'm friends with Jim & his comments are disappointing as he's totally in the wrong. The only way to change attitudes is to exert pressure on those making these questionable decisions.

Unfortunately, it took public outcries from fans, media & female employees to make the Argos reverse course from their stupid decision of letting Kelly practice. Then, to use the "CFL said it's up to us" as an excuse was so outlandish. Yes, they may be correct interpreting the CBA that it's their decision but to everyone else the decision was wrong.

I agree that Barker could be replaced as an analyst on TSN. I don't understand why Barker stuck his neck out when it would have been smarter just to shut up & say nothing. Dave Naylor, Farhan Lalji haven't said a word. Milt Stegall has only said that the Kelly Affair is "serious business". But he never gave an opinion.

26 minutes ago, Brandon said:

Barker is an idiot no question about it.

On the same note people who are so trigger happy for firing the guy instantly are equally as dumb.   You just don't go around firing someone because you don't agree with their opinions, that is close minded. Everyone is entitled to what they believe in,  even if it is something far fetched and the majority of people would not agree with.

 If we are so sensitive on what people say ,  then why are we not equally sensitive on the actions that people do.  Kenny Lawler did something a million times worse then what old man Barker did. The morally right thing to do is fire Lawler and anyone who has a criminal record.  

In the real world,  Barker should get a talk with his TSN HR/management and they'll give the speech saying "as an employee you represent who you work for bla bla bla"  and get a warning and everyone moves on.   I don't want to live in a world where everyone has to keep quiet and never voice their beliefs,  that's a sad place to live in.  

 

 

We already live in that world. How haven't you noticed?

[Mark H.]

1 hour ago, Brandon said:

Everyone is entitled to what they believe in,  even if it is something far fetched and the majority of people would not agree with.

I don't know if you're stirring the pot or if you really believe that - but the answer is simple

No, people are not entitled to push far fetched beliefs and opinions on others - there are limits to far how far freedom and speech and opinion can be taken - and it would be an absolute disaster if there weren't

If you need an example - Google James Keegstra

[Mark H.]

2 hours ago, TBURGESS said:

Equity is trying for equality of results. We aren't talking about equality of results here. 

Example: Giving poor schools more resources because they need more resources to achieve the same results as richer schools is equitable. Giving both schools the same is equality. 

I honestly think some people around here are simply parroting what they have been taught without actually thinking about it. 

I don't think either should be finable offences, but equality and equity would say they should. 

Have you actually read what the two women wrote? Kristina Costabile even said she "love this league and appreciates how much the safety of women in it is taken seriously."

They were both specifically criticizing Pinball Clemons for letting Kelly practice - not so much the league as a whole.  And he is no longer practicing, so it appears the league agrees with their comments.

And no, fining someone for making a comment on which you took affirmative action...would not be equitable

 

 

[Jesse]

3 hours ago, TBURGESS said:

Equity is trying for equality of results. We aren't talking about equality of results here. 

Example: Giving poor schools more resources because they need more resources to achieve the same results as richer schools is equitable. Giving both schools the same is equality. 

I honestly think some people around here are simply parroting what they have been taught without actually thinking about it. 

I don't think either should be finable offences, but equality and equity would say they should. 

I'd argue that's what you're doing. You're pushing a definition over and over arguing semantics instead of engaging with the spirit of the conversation.

We are talking about equity of results. IE. Women being treated equally to men in professional sports. Some women have spoken out in this case to help bridge that gap. To fine them would only make the gap wider. 

EDIT: And none of us grew up being taught that women belong in pro sports. This is us learning from previous generations mistakes and changing our view points over time with new information. Not just parroting the same privileged views without ever challenging ourselves to think with empathy. 

Edited May 14 by Jesse

[SpeedFlex27]

5 hours ago, Geebrr said:

Barker needs to read the room. I’m not really sure why this is the hill he wants to plant his flag on?

The league was doing everything possible in the hopes this disappeared.

Plus, the schedule was probably **** because of his team’s availability, just like always. 

Get off it, Man. 
 

 

 

Barker has double blue blood going through his veins even though he's worked for the Als, Ti cats & Stamps. He's loyal through & through to Toronto to the point that they can do no wrong. hH seems to take offense whenever anyone criticizes the Argos. His emotions gets the better of him & he feels the need to defend the logo.

As an analyst, he has to be neutral. Or at least as neutral as Milt is to the Bombers.

[Noeller]

Man oh man.... this thread. 

[Bigblue204]

1 hour ago, Mark H. said:

I don't know if you're stirring the pot or if you really believe that - but the answer is simple

No, people are not entitled to push far fetched beliefs and opinions on others - there are limits to far how far freedom and speech and opinion can be taken - and it would be an absolute disaster if there weren't

If you need an example - Google James Keegstra

To be fair....Brandon didn't say they had a right to push their beliefs. Just that they had a right to have them.

[Goalie]

Doesn’t MLSE own tsn also or am I wrong there? If not that’s a can of worms. Barker just part of the problem and culture in the big smoke. 

[Mark H.]

4 minutes ago, Bigblue204 said:

To be fair....Brandon didn't say they had a right to push their beliefs. Just that they had a right to have them.

He's responding to a discussion that's based entirely on certain people voicing their incorrect opinions. 

[Goalie]

4 minutes ago, Mark H. said:

He's responding to a discussion that's based entirely on certain people voicing their incorrect opinions. 

Yes what does he thinks this is. The internet or Facebook or Tik tok or oh **** it is social media. Welcome to the internet haha. The internet wouldn’t exist without ppl making crazy opinions based on others crazy opinion and pretending it’s fact. 

Edited May 14 by Goalie

[Bigblue204]

10 minutes ago, Mark H. said:

He's responding to a discussion that's based entirely on certain people voicing their incorrect opinions. 

I guess where I disagree is voicing = pushing. I don't see it that way. If we don't let people voice their incorrect opinions, they'll never be able to have them challenged. 

[Mark H.]

1 minute ago, Bigblue204 said:

I guess where I disagree is voicing = pushing. I don't see it that way. If we don't let people voice their incorrect opinions, they'll never be able to have them challenged. 

Challenge, yes

Defend, no

[Brandon]

1 minute ago, Goalie said:

Yes what does he thinks this is. The internet or Facebook or Tik tok or oh **** it is social media. Welcome to the internet haha. The internet wouldn’t exist without ppl taking crazy options based on others crazy opinion and pretending it’s fact. 

Can you translate this into English?

I'm trying to decipher what you wrote,   I think what you are trying to say is that I like to point out that what people write on here is fantasy/ridiculous and for which it does not apply to the real world outside of the Internet.    It is unhealthy for people to be so close minded and so hateful that they can't keep an open mind and live in a society where people are entitled to their own opinion.   Mark I believe has said he's a religious person,  I wouldn't want him to lose his job because he believes in something that many people do not share the same idealogy as he does.   

If everyone was afraid to speak their own opinion or had to follow one same thought process then we would have a pretty crappy life.  I don't see people in Russia or North Korea loving the fact that they can't speak up or protest. 

   

 

[rebusrankin]

Slightly off topic but since it came up, MLSE does not own TSN. TSN is owned by Rodgers (70%) and ESPN (30%).

[Noeller]

8 minutes ago, rebusrankin said:

Slightly off topic but since it came up, MLSE does not own TSN. TSN is owned by Rodgers (70%) and ESPN (30%).

Is MLSE not tied in with ESPN (Bell)? I swore they were but absolutely could be wrong.

[Bigblue204]

33 minutes ago, Mark H. said:

Challenge, yes

Defend, no

I disagree again. That's just how debate works. One opinion is stated, that opinion is challenged....people talk it out etc etc etc. The better opinion wins.