2023/2024 CFL (Non Bombers) Off Season News

[Jesse]

1 minute ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Yes, so would I. The caps are way too low. Both of them. The only way are for teams to violate them. 

The caps are a result of the revenue that's coming in.

It is what it is.

[SpeedFlex27]

3 minutes ago, Jesse said:

The caps are a result of the revenue that's coming in.

It is what it is.

No, it's shortsighted. The Bombers made a profit of $7 million in 2022 & will make evem more this season yet they're hand tied because of the Edmontons & Calgarys of the league who have grinded their teams into the ground.. 

[Jesse]

3 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

No, it's shortsighted. The Bombers made a profit of $7 million in 2022 & will make evem more this season yet they're hand tied because of the Edmontons & Calgarys of the league who have grinded their teams into the ground.. 

And we've been the team operating at a loss many times. As a league, this is what teams have agreed to because of league-wide revenues. 

[Dr Zaius]

29 minutes ago, Booch said:

is that not for the Players cap?...Or does the admin cap carry the same penalty too?

applies to both.

The serious penalties start coming in at 100k+ on both in the form of draft picks and 2:1 penalties 

It's worth it for any contending team to go over 99k on both.

Burn 198k in fines, but make up that revenue as a drop in the bucket hosting playoff games.

[Booch]

part of it was push from the CFLPA and uncontrolled spending eating into their piece of the rev sharing pie...actually that was one of the major forces behind it.

Was not soley to do with teams revenues and money they were willing to spend...but part was for it to help teams incur less loses with reigning them in a bit....as well as first point I made...so it makes a lil sense, but should also be tweaked to allow teams to maybe pay a penalty for x amount of fires over the allowable mulligan to not count against the cap...as opposed to taking up a portion of the cap over 5 years...that just handcuffs and hurts teams, more than help them

 

Edited November 30, 2023 by Booch

[SpeedFlex27]

16 minutes ago, Booch said:

part of it was push from the CFLPA and uncontrolled spending eating into their piece of the rev sharing pie...actually that was one of the major forces behind it.

Was not soley to do with teams revenues and money they were willing to spend...but part was for it to help teams incur less loses with reigning them in a bit....as well as first point I made...so it makes a lil sense, but should also be tweaked to allow teams to maybe pay a penalty for x amount of fires over the allowable mulligan to not count against the cap...as opposed to taking up a portion of the cap over 5 years...that just handcuffs and hurts teams, more than help them

 

And watching Ambrosie at Grey Cup week with his response. Like Osh said.... He doesn't give a ****. 

[Booch]

Just now, SpeedFlex27 said:

And watching Ambrosie at Grey Cup week with his response. Like Osh said.... He doesn't give a ****. 

nope

[SpeedFlex27]

27 minutes ago, Jesse said:

And we've been the team operating at a loss many times. As a league, this is what teams have agreed to because of league-wide revenues. 

The biggest thing holding the CFL back are the people that run the show in the HO. Short sighted & unintended consequences. 

5 minutes ago, Booch said:

nope

It took years for Walters to build up an organization like the Bombers & only a year or so for Ambrosie to destroy it. I can't imagine how bad it would have been if any combination of Walters, Goveia & McManus had to leave because of that cap. Now with Buck coming back, we somehow dodged a bullet.

Edited November 30, 2023 by SpeedFlex27

[WinnipegGordo]

Do we know if the Ops Cap is going up for 2024?

At the very least I think it should increase about 150k a year to help retain existing staff.

 

[SpeedFlex27]

3 minutes ago, WinnipegGordo said:

Do we know if the Ops Cap is going up for 2024?

At the very least I think it should increase about 150k a year to help retain existing staff.

 

Knowing the CFl & what they've done with the players cap, it'll be a snails pace.... Like $50,000 or something like that. Paper cuts for everyone made to suffer. 

[Fatty Liver]

1 hour ago, WinnipegGordo said:

Do we know if the Ops Cap is going up for 2024?

At the very least I think it should increase about 150k a year to help retain existing staff.

 

Noitain't.

[JuranBoldenRules]

2 hours ago, WinnipegGordo said:

Do we know if the Ops Cap is going up for 2024?

At the very least I think it should increase about 150k a year to help retain existing staff.

 

The cap for the roster is only going up $75,000.  There's no way the operations cap would go up that much.

[wbbfan]

5 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Knowing the CFl & what they've done with the players cap, it'll be a snails pace.... Like $50,000 or something like that. Paper cuts for everyone made to suffer. 

One bottle of grey goose per team courtesy of jones/ambrosie. 
 

Despite a bigger tsn deal, the biggest us tv deal ever, and the gambling revenue, I’d say the league is in a worse spot than it was when cohon left. Am I out to lunch? 

[rebusrankin]

Ambroise has been awful.

Edited December 1, 2023 by rebusrankin

[Jesse]

2 hours ago, wbbfan said:

One bottle of grey goose per team courtesy of jones/ambrosie. 
 

Despite a bigger tsn deal, the biggest us tv deal ever, and the gambling revenue, I’d say the league is in a worse spot than it was when cohon left. Am I out to lunch? 

By what metric?

[SpeedFlex27]

5 hours ago, rebusrankin said:

Ambroise has been awful.

He's like long Covid. Just won't go away. 

[wbbfan]

12 hours ago, Jesse said:

By what metric?

I’d say, Attendance, league wide team stability, league wide venue quality, leagues ability to Scout/develop/ and retain talent, the games rules have become more convoluted than ever, challenges barely serve a purpose with the in consistency of enforcement/calls, 80% of the league is a free agent every year, the game on offence and defence is as stagnant as ever with every one running small variations of the same stuff, league wide debt levels, I mean it’s honestly a lot of different areas. 
 Some are hard to quantify but in deniably worse. For sure the leagues BOG is as much to blame as any one. Since cohon all they’ve had is fall guys/patsys. 
 Would any one argue that the league would be worse off or not better off if we had kept cohon this whole time? I very much doubt it. 
 Maybe I’ve crazy, some of that stuff maybe happens any way for sure, but I feel like it all would’ve been dealt with better with cohon. 

[Bigblue204]

5 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

I’d say, Attendance, league wide team stability, league wide venue quality, leagues ability to Scout/develop/ and retain talent, the games rules have become more convoluted than ever, challenges barely serve a purpose with the in consistency of enforcement/calls, 80% of the league is a free agent every year, the game on offence and defence is as stagnant as ever with every one running small variations of the same stuff, league wide debt levels, I mean it’s honestly a lot of different areas. 
 Some are hard to quantify but in deniably worse. For sure the leagues BOG is as much to blame as any one. Since cohon all they’ve had is fall guys/patsys. 
 Would any one argue that the league would be worse off or not better off if we had kept cohon this whole time? I very much doubt it. 
 Maybe I’ve crazy, some of that stuff maybe happens any way for sure, but I feel like it all would’ve been dealt with better with cohon. 

I'm not sure there's anything Cohon could have done during COVID or about the stadiums (COVID making it worse)... or about retaining talent or about making CFL offenses more dynamic.

[Jesse]

Just now, wbbfan said:

I’d say, Attendance, league wide team stability, league wide venue quality, leagues ability to Scout/develop/ and retain talent, the games rules have become more convoluted than ever, challenges barely serve a purpose with the in consistency of enforcement/calls, 80% of the league is a free agent every year, the game on offence and defence is as stagnant as ever with every one running small variations of the same stuff, league wide debt levels, I mean it’s honestly a lot of different areas. 
 Some are hard to quantify but in deniably worse. For sure the leagues BOG is as much to blame as any one. Since cohon all they’ve had is fall guys/patsys. 
 Would any one argue that the league would be worse off or not better off if we had kept cohon this whole time? I very much doubt it. 
 Maybe I’ve crazy, some of that stuff maybe happens any way for sure, but I feel like it all would’ve been dealt with better with cohon. 

We all loved Cohen. But perhaps only because he was here before certain things started hitting the fan. The commish is simply the face of decisions made by the team presidents and franchises. Not too certain how much better/different things would be under Cohen.

Before I address your points, I do want to share that I feel very comfortable with where the league strength is at. The Bombers are the model franchise, but BC and Montreal are showing strong growth under new ownership. Toronto is making small strides for the first time I can remember. The cap and TV deals are at their highest ever, including new money from the US (ever so small new money, but it's there). We may hate the idea of revenue sharing as the club making the most revenue, but no doubt it's supporting the league as a whole. The OPS cap that everyone hates at least has the benefit of keeping teams more fiscally responsible. The move from TD Atlantic to TD Pacific and beyond is a great upcoming promotional tool to grow the fanbase across the country. There are a lot of good things happening. 

Attendance is low, but it's a trend that is happening across sports and entertainment, I think. For years, the home experience has been getting better and better while tickets and food have gotten more and more expensive. But I think we are proof that a good product can still fight for it's place in the entertainment budget. Other teams saw positive trends this year too, while the Edmonton's of the world need to improve their product (I have a lot of faith in the market to support a successful team). I can't disagree with you on the convoluted rules, especially in the area of NIs and DIs and Gs. It's unnecessary and make the game inaccessible to most fans and a lot of coaches, tbh. But it also came with the stability of a new agreement with the players, so good and bad elements I suppose. I also agree that the league has stagnating a bit and is too strongly attached to risk-averse football. We definitely need a team to come in and shake things up, forcing some new ideas. I doubt the league has somehow forgotten how to scout, but the increases and changes surrounding the NFLs practice rosters and new leagues have certainly diluted the prospect pool, no doubt. It also may be a sign of the times as more and more parents don't let their kids play football. The free agent stuff is 100% overblown as we all know that the FA lists on Feb. 13 are going to be significantly different than they are today. 

 

[HardCoreBlue]

13 hours ago, rebusrankin said:

Ambroise has been awful.

To me he's a poser. Get someone in there that will get their hands dirty and do the work. 

[Colin Unger]

The league is doing reasonably well considering the pandemic and the effect it had on this league and others. No teams went under during the pandemic. There seems to be reasonable hope in markets like Toronto and BC. Edmonton is struggling but that is not because of something the commissioner did or did not do. It is because they've been poorly run for years. The oilers lead the NHL in attendance mostly because they got lucky and were so poorly run for so long that eventually, their ineptitude resulted in them being gifted one of the most dynamic players in the history of hockey. This is something that Im sure also has an effect on the Elks. In Winnipeg we have a decent NHL team, a playoff caliber team and yes the Bombers are doing so well that i think it has had a negative impact on the Jets. Do we not give the commish any credit for this while blaming him for the situation in Edmonton?

It's difficult to measure exactly the impact the pandemic had on sports. But i would say that a couple of factors are that the pandemic taught sports fans that the game isn't as important as they previously believed. And this applies to all sports leagues. The game is not too important to shut down, pause, and cancel. There's also some lingering fear about going to places with large groups of people which has negatively impacted sports attendance. And also when leagues paused or canceled people developed other hobbies which are no in competition with sports. Thankfully some new revenue streams have opened up to replace some of this loss. Ambroisie rubs me the wrong way. Something about his presentation and personality just doesn't inspire me. But I reject the notion that all things considered he's doing some kind of horrible job. Under Cohon there were a lot of old stadiums and tax payer dollars went into building new stadiums and improving some old stadiums. He benefitted from that. Yes he pushed for new stadiums but any commisher would do the same if and when it is feasible. At this point the shine of these new stadiums have come off to some degree.

[wbbfan]

1 hour ago, Bigblue204 said:

I'm not sure there's anything Cohon could have done during COVID or about the stadiums (COVID making it worse)... or about retaining talent or about making CFL offenses more dynamic.

he certainly couldnt have prevented it. Though I bet he wouldn't have tried to go hard against the government and get very little money when more was on the table. 

 The cap has created a league where the same disciples spread and the same experienced guys keep floating back to the top. It certainly wouldn't be fixed, but I think it would be a lot better bringing new blood into the league. Maybe not, but I think it'd be better. 

1 hour ago, Jesse said:

We all loved Cohen. But perhaps only because he was here before certain things started hitting the fan. The commish is simply the face of decisions made by the team presidents and franchises. Not too certain how much better/different things would be under Cohen.

Before I address your points, I do want to share that I feel very comfortable with where the league strength is at. The Bombers are the model franchise, but BC and Montreal are showing strong growth under new ownership. Toronto is making small strides for the first time I can remember. The cap and TV deals are at their highest ever, including new money from the US (ever so small new money, but it's there). We may hate the idea of revenue sharing as the club making the most revenue, but no doubt it's supporting the league as a whole. The OPS cap that everyone hates at least has the benefit of keeping teams more fiscally responsible. The move from TD Atlantic to TD Pacific and beyond is a great upcoming promotional tool to grow the fanbase across the country. There are a lot of good things happening. 

Attendance is low, but it's a trend that is happening across sports and entertainment, I think. For years, the home experience has been getting better and better while tickets and food have gotten more and more expensive. But I think we are proof that a good product can still fight for it's place in the entertainment budget. Other teams saw positive trends this year too, while the Edmonton's of the world need to improve their product (I have a lot of faith in the market to support a successful team). I can't disagree with you on the convoluted rules, especially in the area of NIs and DIs and Gs. It's unnecessary and make the game inaccessible to most fans and a lot of coaches, tbh. But it also came with the stability of a new agreement with the players, so good and bad elements I suppose. I also agree that the league has stagnating a bit and is too strongly attached to risk-averse football. We definitely need a team to come in and shake things up, forcing some new ideas. I doubt the league has somehow forgotten how to scout, but the increases and changes surrounding the NFLs practice rosters and new leagues have certainly diluted the prospect pool, no doubt. It also may be a sign of the times as more and more parents don't let their kids play football. The free agent stuff is 100% overblown as we all know that the FA lists on Feb. 13 are going to be significantly different than they are today. 

 

Cohon was the last commish with actual power. The BOG trusted him and empowered him to dig them out of the trouble he came into and he did. I wonder if perhaps part of him leaving involved the BOG wanting to peel back some of that power.

Cohon era remember edmonton was pulling massive attendance. While we were far lower I feel the average team was much higher. 

 Has the cap increase beaten inflation though? I bet that would be real interesting to see, though the recent massive surge in inflation would certainly skew those numbers. 

Is it? The stuff I follow I don't seem to see that. I could believe that attendance is dropping though. Especially post covid. The nature of entertainment has changed A LOT. 

Yeah, We need the NI rule, and I like some of the thought process behind globals. But it has basically just filled out punters and the odd kick cover guy. 

100%, an expansion/rebuilding team just needs to buck the popular trend and do things differently. It could be a huge boon as teams try to catch up and involve new wrinkles. 

Increase in NFL PR size has certainly been an issue, as well as xfl/usfl. I think long term more talent circulating will improve quality of player for every league though. Another 3-5 years and I think all leagues left standing will see benefit of this. 

 It is, but, the FA thing has created events like lawler, where a guy leaves gets an insane deal that messes up the market, and then it doesn't lead to any thing.

[rebusrankin]

My issue with the coaching and admin cap is that I believe it limits front offices, which impacts scouting, which impacts the product on the field. I also believe it causes younger coaches not to get opportunities which also impacts the game.

[wbbfan]

4 minutes ago, rebusrankin said:

My issue with the coaching and admin cap is that I believe it limits front offices, which impacts scouting, which impacts the product on the field. I also believe it causes younger coaches not to get opportunities which also impacts the game.

100%. Scouting really needs to be separate. I think each coaching position should have an individual cap too. No Chris jones deals. 

[GCJenks]

I think the front office cap should have an adjustment specifically for longevity. As must as the Naturalized Canadian Rule is confusing it provides an incentive for staying with the same time longer, the same should happen for staff that stay with teams for a long period of time.