CFL PA What to negotiate for next?

[BigBlue]

"The Canadian Football League Players’ Association (CFLPA) has been accepted as an affiliate member by the Canadian Labour Congress, following a ratifying vote by the organization on Thursday. “The CFLPA has a proud and successful 59-year history of advocating for fair and safe working conditions…""

What do you feel the CFL PA should next go after to improve the game for both the players and the fans?

Personally, when there is an expansion of money available for the players, I would like to see it go for more Canadian positions on each and every CFL roster. I don't believe just adding a little more money for the top end of the roster will improve our game that much. I would rather see the money go to the low end of the roster. And I don't think sending money to the top-end will bring in more players from the xfl and the other peripheral leagues .

One idea is to add three Canadian minimum salary positions (for $240,000 or so per year per team). Having more trained Canadians may actually lower the cost of Canadians on the roster. Yes – no? More is less?

There is also another way to do this although we would have to be a little more innovative in our thinking. This would take eligible first and second year Canadian players and have them dress and play only home games. That would cut out the cost of travel. It would give them nine actual games in which they could dress. Often Canadian players are behind because they just haven't had a high enough level of training. This will give them that opportunity. And it would strengthen not only the team but all the league's player pool.

So for example, each team could dress six extra Canadians (or four) for each home game. It would only cost the league minimum salary for each of those nine home games. And if they did get on the regular-season roster it would still be for the same league minimum per game. Yes it would give the home team a little advantage; that would be good for attendance, to have the home team win a little more often. And of course the visiting team would gain the advantage at their next game.

Does this sound like a crazy thing to negotiate for, for six extra positions with limited playing time? Three extra salaries would cost what, $240,000 (6 X $80,00 X half a season) or so per year? Would adding an extra 56-60 players to the talent pool make the league stronger?

What should the CFL PA due to change their thinking to benefit all of the players and their association, not just their stars?

What idea have you been thinking about to improve our game?

 

Edited April 24 by BigBlue

[WinnipegGordo]

They should allow players to bet on CFL games. #TooSoon

[JCon]

2 minutes ago, WinnipegGordo said:

They should allow players to bet on CFL games. #TooSoon

I'm betting on myself! - Lemon (probably)

[bb1]

I wonder why the CFL would suspend a guy who is aleady retired? I guess at least he is still kind of around to suspend i guess?? Better late than never? 😄

[Gail]

3 minutes ago, bb1 said:

I wonder why the CFL would suspend a guy who is aleady retired? I guess at least he is still kind of around to suspend i guess?? Better late than never? 😄

If they suspend him then he can’t pull a Tom Brady.

[JuranBoldenRules]

9 minutes ago, bb1 said:

I wonder why the CFL would suspend a guy who is aleady retired? I guess at least he is still kind of around to suspend i guess?? Better late than never? 😄

Because he is still a free agent and could play again.  Could also coach.

[Mike]

So in order to strengthen the game … you want to take what? 60 collegiate football players and somehow convince them to dedicate themselves to the game of football for half the regular salary, they don’t get to travel with the team to learn about what it’s like to be a pro on the road, they don’t get to make a living wage and they basically just get to what? Become special teams crash test dummies because they’re already the bottom of the totem pole as far as athletic talents go (otherwise they would hold a better spot on the roster) and their development is being accelerated at half the pace of their teammates? 
 

 

[bryan35]

Add a spot for a Canadian QB that doesn't count against the cap. Maybe make it a Canadian trained university spot.

Edited April 25 by bryan35

[BigBlue]

5 hours ago, Mike said:

So in order to strengthen the game … you want to take what? 60 collegiate football players and somehow convince them to dedicate themselves to the game of football for half the regular salary, they don’t get to travel with the team to learn about what it’s like to be a pro on the road, they don’t get to make a living wage and they basically just get to what? Become special teams crash test dummies because they’re already the bottom of the totem pole as far as athletic talents go (otherwise they would hold a better spot on the roster) and their development is being accelerated at half the pace of their teammates? 
 

 

For a kid straight out of college who really wants to play professional football, $40,000 for half a year is not peanuts. It's a career starter that might get them on the team full-time next year. Meanwhile they get to immediately  don a professional uniform and just get used to the game. 

Learning how to play in the enemy's territory can be learned later. Meanwhile they will have the benefit of professional coaching and mentoring from the senior players in their position. This is way better than sitting on the taxi squad hoping someday to get in to uniform.

This is not a denigrating position for a raw rookie. Ask any aspiring Canadian who gets cut whether they would rather be one of the partly paid Canadian trainees. Ask any of the coaches if they would like the depth that these players would give when the injury bug hits.

Even if "their development is being accelerated at half the pace of their teammates" (and I don't believe it would be), then there is progress being made towards the following season. Many would buy into that.

This might not be the perfect way to get more Canadians into our game, but it is a way. We would end up with more Canadian talent and more useful players than ever before. Develop the lower end of the roster.

[JCon]

What kid coming out of a Canadian University is going to be so delusional to think he can will his way onto a team?

If you're not getting drafted out of USports, you're under no delusion that you have a career in football. Full stop. 

You have a university degree and you know your life is drawing you elsewhere. 

Maybe you come across a few that will give it a go because they're not ready to give up quote yet. 

[CodyT]

1 hour ago, JCon said:

What kid coming out of a Canadian University is going to be so delusional to think he can will his way onto a team?

If you're not getting drafted out of USports, you're under no delusion that you have a career in football. Full stop. 

You have a university degree and you know your life is drawing you elsewhere. 

Maybe you come across a few that will give it a go because they're not ready to give up quote yet. 

Osheas kid, for one

[BigBlue]

"You have a university degree and you know your life is drawing you elsewhere."

This would be true for some, especially those who have taken specific degrees in say engineering, accounting or nursing.

Many others true aspiration is to play football and worry about career later. These same individuals know that just having a degree is no guarantee of a good job. More and more have to go on to acquire Masters degrees to pursue their chosen vocation. And even that is no guarantee of a job in their targeted career path.

There are also career paths such as in real estate or financial sales or 100 other situations, where the athlete can work around the football season in developing a clientele. Not having to travel for nine games would help the newbie graduate pay a little more attention to such a job during the season. That's a career choice. Further, remember at one time all CFL players had to have an alternate job because Canadian football salaries were just inadequate. In some ways that's no different today. You have the joy of football while you develop a proposed football income source.

More to the point, there are many very athletic individuals, who just for one reason or another, whatever that might be, just have not had the opportunity to fully develop their skills. In addition to university students, this is also true of junior league football players around the country. They love football and just want to play it.

So whether it's more economical to have six players on half salary, or three players on a full roster spot, what I'm advocating is that the CFL PA should lobby for an expansion of the roster size. We need to have a larger talent pool.

My personal thought is that it's better to have six extra on the roster than just three. Like the draft, management just doesn't know who was going to emerge in a big way. So much is depending on willpower and underlying athletic skills not yet developed.

And yes, eligibility for the six person half season would include junior football players and would include Canadians attending US universities. Those young men would also have the ability to be in school, online. That is becoming more and more popular as well as relatively lower cost to achieve advanced degrees in their targeted field.

None of these football aspirants are denigrated or damaged by just playing nine games instead of 18. Let the young men design their own future. Who are we to judge how they will decide to run their life.

Add three full-time or six part-time for about the same cost ($240,000 plus travel cost) and develop that talent pool. Our league loves Canadians and it is the Canadian talent that has given our game longevity.

Edited April 25 by BigBlue

[GCn20]

12 hours ago, JCon said:

What kid coming out of a Canadian University is going to be so delusional to think he can will his way onto a team?

If you're not getting drafted out of USports, you're under no delusion that you have a career in football. Full stop. 

You have a university degree and you know your life is drawing you elsewhere. 

Maybe you come across a few that will give it a go because they're not ready to give up quote yet. 

What is delusional about a young twenty something kid following his dream? Not everyone is driven by the almighty dollar, particularly early in their adulthood. There are a ton of guys who come into every team's TC every year that are undrafted. Are they delusional? However, in the context of what is being discussed the number of people who would agree to such terms would be limited. Not because it is delusional, but because it just isn't a very sound path to development and eventual playing time.

Edited April 25 by GCn20

[Tracker]

20 hours ago, WinnipegGordo said:

They should allow players to bet on CFL games. #TooSoon

Maybe the teams should be allowed to bet on CFL games.

[BigBlue]

57 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

What is delusional about a young twenty something kid following his dream? Not everyone is driven by the almighty dollar, particularly early in their adulthood. There are a ton of guys who come into every team's TC every year that are undrafted. Are they delusional? However, in the context of what is being discussed the number of people who would agree to such terms would be limited. Not because it is delusional, but because it just isn't a very sound path to development and eventual playing time.

isn't a very sound path to development and eventual playing time.

It is not sound? What are you thinking in that regard? They will be at every practice. They will have instruction from the positional coaches. They will have mentorship from the starters in their position. 

And during the practices they will be playing their heart out. And they will be working out on their own before and after practice. They will also learn a new and better way of weight training. They will be living in a different world than their amateur experiences. They will learn grit from rubbing shoulders with seasoned veterans.

They will be dressed and in the lineup for nine games, and may be more if there added to the full-time roster temporarily because of injury. In those nine games that will likely have some special teams work. Or they might be put into the game in short yardage situations. They will be doing guided film work. They will be totally immersed with the whole team through thick and thin. What kind of learning is that?

You don't think the six will develop so much more than anything they've seen in junior or college? And on top of that, they will have a chance to play instead of sitting in an office someplace with no football future path.

Not every one of the six will stay in the league but one or two or three of them will eventually get to a starting role. Don't you think?

Anyway, if you don't like six half timers, just add three more Canadian players to the roster size. They can develop that way. Further, the CFL PA should be happy because they have expanded permanently the number of jobs for the players. Negotiating for that the fantastic!

 

[bryan35]

Another option would be adding one or two practice roster spots for Canadians.

Edited April 25 by bryan35

[GCn20]

2 hours ago, BigBlue said:

isn't a very sound path to development and eventual playing time.

It is not sound? What are you thinking in that regard? They will be at every practice. They will have instruction from the positional coaches. They will have mentorship from the starters in their position. 

And during the practices they will be playing their heart out. And they will be working out on their own before and after practice. They will also learn a new and better way of weight training. They will be living in a different world than their amateur experiences. They will learn grit from rubbing shoulders with seasoned veterans.

They will be dressed and in the lineup for nine games, and may be more if there added to the full-time roster temporarily because of injury. In those nine games that will likely have some special teams work. Or they might be put into the game in short yardage situations. They will be doing guided film work. They will be totally immersed with the whole team through thick and thin. What kind of learning is that?

You don't think the six will develop so much more than anything they've seen in junior or college? And on top of that, they will have a chance to play instead of sitting in an office someplace with no football future path.

Not every one of the six will stay in the league but one or two or three of them will eventually get to a starting role. Don't you think?

Anyway, if you don't like six half timers, just add three more Canadian players to the roster size. They can develop that way. Further, the CFL PA should be happy because they have expanded permanently the number of jobs for the players. Negotiating for that the fantastic!

 

In theory, what you are saying is sound. In practice clubs will not and cannot devote enough of their time away from the main roster to slowly develop anyone. Practice time is limited in our league. Actual players need every rep they can get and giving them up to half timers. they will not be in pads for all but a couple practices a year. Rubbing shoulders with vets, and practicing on their own is not development. Being token rostered players that don't play won't help anything. Sure the odd guy might break through to a full time job but making peanuts on a PR for a shot a couple years down the line is not going to be appealing to many. You are thinking these guys coming out of CIS don't know how to weight train or how to play the game? They know. There are very few late bloomers that come along and break out after a couple of years. If you wanna add 3 spots to the roster for NATs you might be able to fine tune a few guys to specialist roles on teams. That's about as good as it will probably get for guys of the developmental level you are talking about. I really don't feel that 1 or 2 out of 6 would ever develop into a starting role in this scenario. 1 in 20 maybe. Take a look at the drafts, how many drafted guys end up as starters and these are the guys that have demonstrated an ability to potentially play pro ball either thru their game tape or their physical attributes. Maybe 1 in 10 draft picks end up as a starter another 2 out of 10 as teamers or specialists and that is in a couple of good draft years.  Thinking that with some extra time that undrafted guys will attain the same success is pretty wishful thinking. By the time each team gets into the 7th round of the draft there isn't much hope for that draft pick let alone picking up the scraps after that.

Edited April 25 by GCn20

[JCon]

With teams struggling financially coming out of Covid, new owners, teams for sale, and some depleted facilities, I do NOT see the CFL adding more salaried positions. You can't just keep adding more roster spots without spreading the money around. So, CFLPA is not going to take less for more spots. 

CFLPA should to focus on player safety and getting as much money for the existing roster spots as possible. 

[BigBlue]

" I do NOT see the CFL adding more salaried positions" I agree if the salary cap is not going up but if history is any guide it will go up at least some. What I am advocating here is to take $250,000 of that increase and expand the Canadian roster size. It will ultimately lower the cost of Canadians over all. It will lower it because there will be more Canadian talent because of the larger veteran experienced talent pool (30 to 60 more veterans at least).

The teams can then apply the rest of the salary cap increase as they see fit. Until we see game day rosters the same size as the NFL, we will always have game day injury problems. A little common sense can prevail here. We just have to regulate it slightly for a very good purpose.

[wbbfan]

Players should fight for revenue sharing and a scaling cap. Couple more roster spots and maybe pr spots. I would also push for a fixed ratio between player and coaching cap. 

[JCon]

19 minutes ago, BigBlue said:

" I do NOT see the CFL adding more salaried positions" I agree if the salary cap is not going up but if history is any guide it will go up at least some. What I am advocating here is to take $250,000 of that increase and expand the Canadian roster size. It will ultimately lower the cost of Canadians over all. It will lower it because there will be more Canadian talent because of the larger veteran experienced talent pool (30 to 60 more veterans at least).

The teams can then apply the rest of the salary cap increase as they see fit. Until we see game day rosters the same size as the NFL, we will always have game day injury problems. A little common sense can prevail here. We just have to regulate it slightly for a very good purpose.

CFLPA will not choose to spread money to more positions. That's not in the best interest of the current players. Current players vote. 

[wbbfan]

1 hour ago, JCon said:

CFLPA will not choose to spread money to more positions. That's not in the best interest of the current players. Current players vote. 

Isn’t that what they did in the last cba with the increases to the min salary? I don’t see them wanting more of that, maybe some will want more total players though. 

[BigBlue]

9 hours ago, wbbfan said:

Isn’t that what they did in the last cba with the increases to the min salary? I don’t see them wanting more of that, maybe some will want more total players though. 

When the players vote, they ratify. Negotiations occur before the fact; there are trade-offs for both sides in the negotiations.  If the governors want an expanded roster, $240,000 is not a lot of money. And some of the players will see  player expansion is a good thing.

So in our discussion the key thing is getting the concepts across, not minor money matters

[JCon]

19 minutes ago, BigBlue said:

When the players vote, they ratify. Negotiations occur before the fact; there are trade-offs for both sides in the negotiations.  If the governors want an expanded roster, $240,000 is not a lot of money. And some of the players will see  player expansion is a good thing.

So in our discussion the key thing is getting the concepts across, not minor money matters

You keep saying the same thing over-and-over and have not provided anything new. I'm sure the CFL will just find more money. This is just another of your nonsense threads. 

[Sard]

13 hours ago, BigBlue said:

" I do NOT see the CFL adding more salaried positions" I agree if the salary cap is not going up but if history is any guide it will go up at least some. What I am advocating here is to take $250,000 of that increase and expand the Canadian roster size. It will ultimately lower the cost of Canadians over all. It will lower it because there will be more Canadian talent because of the larger veteran experienced talent pool (30 to 60 more veterans at least).

The teams can then apply the rest of the salary cap increase as they see fit. Until we see game day rosters the same size as the NFL, we will always have game day injury problems. A little common sense can prevail here. We just have to regulate it slightly for a very good purpose.

How much do you think the salary cap goes up by every year?

2015 - $5.05 M

2016 - $5.1 M

2017 - $5.15 M

2018 - $5.2 M

2019 - $5.25 M

2020 - $5.3 M (cancelled season)

2021 - $5.35 M (shortened season)

2022 - $5.35 M

2023 - $5.45 M

2024 - $5.525 M

With the cap only going up by $50K to $75K, asking them to use $250,000 would be asking some players to take a pay cut to make it work, and the PA would never advocate for that.