Blue Bombers - 2024 Regular Season - Discussion Thread

[JohnnyAbonny]

2 minutes ago, Goalie said:

Alright then. Is neufeld worse than lofton or one of the pr guys? 
guess sounds like you could go 

Bryant Dobson Eli neufeld lofton immediately or get an American guard in there also or even go Wallace at guard. Guess thems the only options. There’s no tackles better than lofton who are FAs? 

Besides that tip off, has Lofton even been bad though? It’s the 3 in the middle. 
I’d say switch one at a time until it’s fixed Center first, then Neufeld, then Dobson. 
 

Talent-wise (correct me if I’m wrong) our best OL to me with our current roster would be 

Bryant-Wallace-Eli-Vanterpool-Lofton. 
 

I don’t think there’s a whole lot in FA. If they want to upgrade it would have to be PR or trade. 

1 minute ago, Bigblue204 said:

Gray is not a tackle

It’s definitely a moot point but he was in university ball. I don’t really recall how he looked in the limited times got here, I vaguely remember him looking bad at RT in a meaningless game. 

[Fatty Liver]

29 minutes ago, Bigblue204 said:

Gray is not a tackle

He filled in for Stanley a few times and didn't look out of place in years past. It would have been interesting if Bryant had to leave the game yesterday how they would have shuffled the line to cover for him.

Edited July 6 by Fatty Liver

[Tracker]

2 hours ago, JohnnyAbonny said:

I’ve thought that about Dobson since his first game, but I’d still like to see how he would be playing next to Ei instead of Kolo. 

AMEN!

[JuranBoldenRules]

48 minutes ago, JohnnyAbonny said:

Besides that tip off, has Lofton even been bad though? It’s the 3 in the middle. 
I’d say switch one at a time until it’s fixed Center first, then Neufeld, then Dobson. 
 

Talent-wise (correct me if I’m wrong) our best OL to me with our current roster would be 

Bryant-Wallace-Eli-Vanterpool-Lofton. 
 

I don’t think there’s a whole lot in FA. If they want to upgrade it would have to be PR or trade. 

It’s definitely a moot point but he was in university ball. I don’t really recall how he looked in the limited times got here, I vaguely remember him looking bad at RT in a meaningless game. 

Eli to me is a saw off against anyone else at best.  Yeah give him some reps at LG or C and see if there's some stability, but I wouldn't have huge expectations.  Hasn't really played any C for us his whole career.  Maybe would be fine, maybe not.  To say for certain is just silliness...it's becoming here that the most popular player isn't the backup QB, but the 6th OL and practice squad LB's.  Why are we hiding so many all-stars?  Yeah some guys/units are struggling but let's be realistic about the options here today.  Not super mobile on the edge or at guard so far.  Hasn't really played other than as extra guy since 2021.  Really struggled vs Montreal when they ran him a lot as the 6th in pass pro...as Dobson did quite a bit last year.  Yeah likes to tee off in run blocking, pass pro is the real difference maker for OL in this era.  I know there's a vast conspiracy against Eli that's made the Bombers give his job to Couture, Speller and Kolankowski, even Dobson who looks like a total bum out there.  Crazy we've had him here for 6 years and 4 seasons in these terrible conditions.  It's not like any other team would take an all-star Canadian offensive lineman if he happened to become a free agent in February 2022, remaining a free agent for almost a full calendar year.  No teams were making stupid six figure commitments to any Canadian linemen in that time, especially no teams that wear green uniforms, or black helmets and black pants with big saw blade logos.  Durability is a huge concern, and it's not like they are going to put Al Couture in front of the cameras at practice to tell you why.  The last time he dressed and we didn't have 7 OL dressed was the 2019 Grey Cup.  Makes you wonder.  We don't have the kind of media that will ask the questions or write that story.

Wallace has such limited reps that we can't really say anything yet.  Looks very active, competitive and strong on his blocks.  Hopefully continues to build into CFL body (keep working on those feet, don't be a Dobson).  But again, mostly judging on run when he comes in with 6 or 7 linemen on the field, which is the more natural and simpler aspect of the job.  Him making the 45 man roster right out of the gate and getting some reps in short-yardage says a lot though.  He's definitely ahead of the curve and our depth is also as weak as it's been since probably 2015.

I'm about ready to quit on Dobson though.  It's year 3.  Don't chase guys across the field.  Stay on your doubles and move the line.  Never never never turn your hips in pass pro and take yourself completely out of position, especially as an interior guy.  He's just letting blitzes right through the pocket and teams seeing that on film are going to send guys on delay and read blitzes where they go late when they know for sure we are passing.  Especially with Collaros in there where they won't get burned by him taking off.  As armchair GM I'd be trying to deal him for a Canadian DL.  We can easily go 3 imports on the OL so we don't have to worry too much about losing a Canadian OL.  And we'd use that guy so much more effectively on D.  But everyone watches every game so they'd know the issues...you'd be hoping they think they can fix him.

Familiarity is important in building a line, but if you have guys who are consistently failing at the very basic aspects of the job you need to get other guys in there.

I think even bringing one of the two Americans on as that 6th guy that they want to use sometimes on the edge in pass pro would be smart.  Don't believe Mitchell even set foot on the field last night, maybe a couple times on O hard to tell from TSN feed between him and Wilson on the wide side..so we have a spot.  The past two years when they've ran that 6 man OL max protect look Dobson and Eli have really struggled if other teams widen out their end and isolate them.  They are attacking that block which opens up all the pass rushers moves especially the inside ones, gotta get depth, keep your hips square and not give them a path into the pocket.  I can see an American guy who has some experience playing that kind of role as well as interior (Randolph) having some utility.

[CrazyCanuck89]

4 hours ago, Colin Unger said:

The annoying part about all of this is we could literally be starting 4 americans on the offensive line if we wanted to right now and we choose not to start even one additional offensive lineman. 

What's you shouldn't because you have capable backups in Eli and Walkace who should be starting.

1 hour ago, Bigblue204 said:

Gray is not a tackle

Gray is a better tackle than guard.  Teams need to stop putting Canadians with a tackle body at guard.

 

[Bigblue204]

2 hours ago, Fatty Liver said:

He filled in for Stanley a few times and didn't look out of place in years past. It would have been interesting if Bryant had to leave the game yesterday how they would have shuffled the line to cover for him.

That's not true. Gray has played RT before and looked bad. There was a reason why nuef was ahead of him in that regard. Gray never filled in for Bryant....outside of a preseason game.

Edited July 6 by Bigblue204

[wbbfan]

4 hours ago, JohnnyAbonny said:

Besides that tip off, has Lofton even been bad though? It’s the 3 in the middle. 
I’d say switch one at a time until it’s fixed Center first, then Neufeld, then Dobson. 
 

Talent-wise (correct me if I’m wrong) our best OL to me with our current roster would be 

Bryant-Wallace-Eli-Vanterpool-Lofton. 
 

I don’t think there’s a whole lot in FA. If they want to upgrade it would have to be PR or trade. 

It’s definitely a moot point but he was in university ball. I don’t really recall how he looked in the limited times got here, I vaguely remember him looking bad at RT in a meaningless game. 

Lofton is bad at defending speed off the edge, he’s struggled with how far to kick slide allowing him self to be ridden right back into the qbs lap, and he struggled with twists/blitzes. Hes good at blocking the bull rush and dealing with guys who go right at him. As you would expect from a career guard before coming up here. And a riders cast off. 
 

Free agency for ol is a tough call, some times a guy needs a position change like hardrick or a chance like bond. Talent wise it’s honestly a big question mark at 2nd guard and we don’t have a second tackle. The stark reality imo looks like this 

LT Bryant 

lg no defined starter, wallace =/= dobson 

C Eli. No cfl calibre back up, maybe Dobson 

RG Lofton=/= vanterpool, randolph 

RT no cfl quality tackle 

In my mind this season is already on the verge of being a wash, couple weeks I’d start playing for next year. At that point I’d run this ol 

bryant 

wallace

eli/dobson 

Randolph 

vanterpool 

I would give that 1 or 2 weeks, then cut the worst of the imps air lift in new guys and give Dobson another couple weeks at guard. The goal would be to develop a rt, and gauge dobsons ability to improve with some more focus on assignment and role in the short term. 

 

1 hour ago, Bigblue204 said:

That's not true. Gray has played RT before and looked bad. There was a reason why nuef was ahead of him in that regard. Gray never filled in for Bryant....outside of a preseason game.

When did gray play rt? Maybe late in a pre season game once but I never saw him get any chance at it. He did however excel as the 6th ol jumbo pack in passing plays.  
 Neuf wasn’t better than any one at rt. He is the least mobile guy we’ve had since bob camerons final season. 

[Booch]

Gotta start from center out...and especially if we use Strev more...you want a mauling body moving center who gets off blocks and seeks and destroys guys in next level for the QB draws or the options where we give it to BO

I think out best chance to win this yr is with Strev...and with more refinement of scheme to suit him and with Lawler back...and yes Whitehead to run misdirection...sweeps..or threat of with him and Demski and the double headed running of BO and Strev...where he is allowed to take shots down field...we may have something.

Defences won't be able to just pin ears back and attack the QB or they will get guaged on the ground..as was evident last night...and ripple effect will make the online seem much better.

We have none of that with ZC back there...and prob would have seen at least 3...4 sacks last night and some forced turnovers.

Who here really thinks we win that game last night with ZC behind center...with that receiving group?

I also think Clercius should be the 5th...or at least see heavy use...stud in making there!

[wbbfan]

1 minute ago, Booch said:

Gotta start from center out...and especially if we use Strev more...you want a mauling body moving center who gets off blocks and seeks and destroys guys in next level for the QB draws or the options where we give it to BO

I think out best chance to win this yr is with Strev...and with more refinement of scheme to suit him and with Lawler back...and yes Whitehead to run misdirection...sweeps..or threat of with him and Demski and the double headed running of BO and Strev...where he is allowed to take shots down field...we may have something.

Defences won't be able to just pin ears back and attack the QB or they will get guaged on the ground..as was evident last night...and ripple effect will make the online seem much better.

We have none of that with ZC back there...and prob would have seen at least 3...4 sacks last night and some forced turnovers.

Who here really thinks we win that game last night with ZC behind center...with that receiving group?

I also think Clercius should be the 5th...or at least see heavy use...stud in making there!

Agree big time, I think we are at the dawn of the strevy era. 
 

That’s a really good point actually. Having lucky to run sweep motion stuff, which is easy and in his wheel house, which lets Demksi run down field more and give us that nice catch and run mid range threat. 
 I’d love to see woli in lawlers spot till he’s back. Too, give us a big reliable catcher getting down field. even clercius too. Yeah he’s a damn good pass catcher. I’m really impressed. 

I’d love to see some layered back field motion. Demski, brady, and lucky could interweave jet, orbit, rocket, fly, return etc motion. 
imagine having demski on jet sweep motion on the snap, having lucky pre snap rocket motion, and Brady on return running out then back to his spot for the snap. You can run demski inside, lucky around the edge, Brady with a slot back type of waggle momentum and set up screen plays on a fast count plus every thing strevy brings. 
That would pull the dl tight to the line opening up seams for passing and break away lanes for strevy and Demski inside. 

 

 

 

[Booch]

4 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

Agree big time, I think we are at the dawn of the strevy era. 
 

That’s a really good point actually. Having lucky to run sweep motion stuff, which is easy and in his wheel house, which lets Demksi run down field more and give us that nice catch and run mid range threat. 
 I’d love to see woli in lawlers spot till he’s back. Too, give us a big reliable catcher getting down field. even clercius too. Yeah he’s a damn good pass catcher. I’m really impressed. 

I’d love to see some layered back field motion. Demski, brady, and lucky could interweave jet, orbit, rocket, fly, return etc motion. 
imagine having demski on jet sweep motion on the snap, having lucky pre snap rocket motion, and Brady on return running out then back to his spot for the snap. You can run demski inside, lucky around the edge, Brady with a slot back type of waggle momentum and set up screen plays on a fast count plus every thing strevy brings. 
That would pull the dl tight to the line opening up seams for passing and break away lanes for strevy and Demski inside. 

 

 

 

Its definitely something I would implement and would open things right up on offence and totally play into Strevs skills

[Brandon]

In the first half when Brown was still playing it felt like he had all the time in the world dropping back to find his deep receivers... with Strev it felt like he was getting one steamboat and instantly facing heat.   

The difference in our pass protection from last year compared to this year is night and day different.   The line needs help big time.    

 

[Fatty Liver]

5 hours ago, Bigblue204 said:

That's not true. Gray has played RT before and looked bad. There was a reason why nuef was ahead of him in that regard. Gray never filled in for Bryant....outside of a preseason game.

Nah, don't think Gray ever played RT, he subbed a few times for Bryant at LT on the rare occasion Stanley could not play or was rested.  In those games he did not give up any QB sacks like Dobson is prone to do.  You might be thinking of Lofton subbing for Hardrick late in 22 against the Lions, funny thing is he played quite well in that game and did not give up a sack either.  

[Noeller]

1 hour ago, Fatty Liver said:

Nah, don't think Gray ever played RT, he subbed a few times for Bryant at LT on the rare occasion Stanley could not play or was rested.  In those games he did not give up any QB sacks like Dobson is prone to do.  You might be thinking of Lofton subbing for Hardrick late in 22 against the Lions, funny thing is he played quite well in that game and did not give up a sack either.  

My memory is that Gray is/was a natural tackle. Played tackle all through college and we converted him to Guard. 

[bigg jay]

56 minutes ago, Noeller said:

My memory is that Gray is/was a natural tackle. Played tackle all through college and we converted him to Guard. 

He played left tackle, right tackle and right guard at various times with the Bisons.

[SpeedFlex27]

18 hours ago, Colin Unger said:

I strongly disagree. They would make some changes to this strategy if they were faced with going the rest of the season with Streveler/Wilson because of how impossible it is that Steveler could survive the strategy we used in the first half. He almost didn't survive on half of football playing that way.  And he showed in the 4th quarter last week that he does have some ability as a passer. I think what happened yesterday was that unexpectedly the strategy they came out with early ended up being successful enough and Ottawa failed do score points so we continued with this strategy at least for the first half and then used Streveler more as a decoy in the 2nd half. I doubt the gameplan was to play like that for the whole game. 

Collaros won't be out the rest of the season & will probably be back next week. So, your comments won't even be a consideration. Streveler is who he is. A running qb first. No one is going to mistake him for a qb who throws the ball first.

[SpeedFlex27]

7 hours ago, Brandon said:

In the first half when Brown was still playing it felt like he had all the time in the world dropping back to find his deep receivers... with Strev it felt like he was getting one steamboat and instantly facing heat.   

The difference in our pass protection from last year compared to this year is night and day different.   The line needs help big time.    

 

Well, I got indigestion last year when we couldn't (or wouldn't) sign Desjarlais or Couture. Yeah, supposedly they wanted to play in their hometowns but it's funny how being paid changes loyalties. It was a deceision not to overpay & look at what that's got us now. We overpaid for  Oliveira, Lawler & Schoen but we wouldn't pay to get two outstanding Canadian OL back. Imagine the difference with them both starting instead of Dobson & Kolankowski.  Even if we only got one back.

 

Edited July 7 by SpeedFlex27

[Colin Unger]

3 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Collaros won't be out the rest of the season & will probably be back next week. So, your comments won't even be a consideration. Streveler is who he is. A running qb first. No one is going to mistake him for a qb who throws the ball first.

In terms of Collaros being back next week so they wouldn't consider the idea of needing Streveler the last the season. Yeah that was the entire point I was making.

If all Streveler can be is a run first QB then we never should have gone into the season with just him and Wilson as backups.

[Booch]

16 minutes ago, Colin Unger said:

In terms of Collaros being back next week so they wouldn't consider the idea of needing Streveler the last the season. Yeah that was the entire point I was making.

If all Streveler can be is a run first QB then we never should have gone into the season with just him and Wilson as backups.

That's the thing...that's not all he can be..and not what he started out here as...but once Lapo and Osh saw that ability they tried to make him solely into that and ******** his development...allow him to be an actual QB and he will be just fine...Like a better Fajardo type. With a better arm...more power...and no ****** to him...

[Bigblue204]

15 hours ago, wbbfan said:

Lofton is bad at defending speed off the edge, he’s struggled with how far to kick slide allowing him self to be ridden right back into the qbs lap, and he struggled with twists/blitzes. Hes good at blocking the bull rush and dealing with guys who go right at him. As you would expect from a career guard before coming up here. And a riders cast off. 
 

Free agency for ol is a tough call, some times a guy needs a position change like hardrick or a chance like bond. Talent wise it’s honestly a big question mark at 2nd guard and we don’t have a second tackle. The stark reality imo looks like this 

LT Bryant 

lg no defined starter, wallace =/= dobson 

C Eli. No cfl calibre back up, maybe Dobson 

RG Lofton=/= vanterpool, randolph 

RT no cfl quality tackle 

In my mind this season is already on the verge of being a wash, couple weeks I’d start playing for next year. At that point I’d run this ol 

bryant 

wallace

eli/dobson 

Randolph 

vanterpool 

I would give that 1 or 2 weeks, then cut the worst of the imps air lift in new guys and give Dobson another couple weeks at guard. The goal would be to develop a rt, and gauge dobsons ability to improve with some more focus on assignment and role in the short term. 

 

When did gray play rt? Maybe late in a pre season game once but I never saw him get any chance at it. He did however excel as the 6th ol jumbo pack in passing plays.  
 Neuf wasn’t better than any one at rt. He is the least mobile guy we’ve had since bob camerons final season. 

Yeah it was preseason 

10 hours ago, Fatty Liver said:

Nah, don't think Gray ever played RT, he subbed a few times for Bryant at LT on the rare occasion Stanley could not play or was rested.  In those games he did not give up any QB sacks like Dobson is prone to do.  You might be thinking of Lofton subbing for Hardrick late in 22 against the Lions, funny thing is he played quite well in that game and did not give up a sack either.  

Bryant has missed 1 game as a Bomber. And it was end of year game against cgy. And Gray didn't take his place.

[Colin Unger]

3 hours ago, Booch said:

That's the thing...that's not all he can be..and not what he started out here as...but once Lapo and Osh saw that ability they tried to make him solely into that and ******** his development...allow him to be an actual QB and he will be just fine...Like a better Fajardo type. With a better arm...more power...and no ****** to him...

My sentiment is that he practiced in the NFL all those years and was basically used as a real quarterback and not a gadget guy.   His second last year in the NFL he had such an amazing pre-season as a passer that they decided to find a way to keep him around. And he did show some things versus Calgary that tell me there's some potential there. But the way things are going it seems unlikely to materialize.   I think there would certainly be growing pains and at least at the moment we aren't in a position to suffer while he makes mistakes and learns from them. The best bet for him to learn is when he's playing and teams find a way to deal with the RPO stuff. 

3 hours ago, Bigblue204 said:

Yeah it was preseason 

Bryant has missed 1 game as a Bomber. And it was end of year game against cgy. And Gray didn't take his place.

Gray getting a chance at tackle was likely something that might have happened had he become a dominant guard. 

[JuranBoldenRules]

21 minutes ago, Colin Unger said:

My sentiment is that he practiced in the NFL all those years and was basically used as a real quarterback and not a gadget guy.   His second last year in the NFL he had such an amazing pre-season as a passer that they decided to find a way to keep him around. And he did show some things versus Calgary that tell me there's some potential there. But the way things are going it seems unlikely to materialize.   I think there would certainly be growing pains and at least at the moment we aren't in a position to suffer while he makes mistakes and learns from them. The best bet for him to learn is when he's playing and teams find a way to deal with the RPO stuff. 

Gray getting a chance at tackle was likely something that might have happened had he become a dominant guard. 

If you watch his NFL preseason with the Jets it's basically what you saw from him and Crum on Friday night.  One read in the pocket, then scramble.  The difference between those guys and the elite passing QB's is that read happening pre-snap.  There are a lot of ways to help QB's with that though.  But we're never going to see Streveler have success setting up in the pocket 7 yards deep play after play.  It's going to be RPO, it's going to be moving the pocket and giving the defense looks on multiple and lateral threats (like jet motion or playaction).

You put the defense in a bind and simplify the game.  You read one or a couple keys on defense and based on that we're handing off to the jet, or the back, or you're rolling.  You have 2 guys in the route, if one is there hit him, if not keep running.

You make Streveler's game sustainable by using all the weapons.  We should have a role for all RB's.  We should have a role for Whitehead/Demski as a ball carrier.  If Streveler and Oliviera are in for 40-45 carries in the game plan make it 20-25 touches for Oliviera, 5-10 each for Augustine and Smith, a handful for receivers and hopefully no more than 7-8 designed runs for Streveler.

Edited July 7 by JuranBoldenRules

[Fatty Liver]

4 hours ago, Booch said:

That's the thing...that's not all he can be..and not what he started out here as...but once Lapo and Osh saw that ability they tried to make him solely into that and ******** his development...allow him to be an actual QB and he will be just fine...Like a better Fajardo type. With a better arm...more power...and no ****** to him...

Strev. has had 5 years to show he can do other things well and play like a normal QB, he hasn't done that and he's not likely to be afforded the luxury of rediscovering his inner Zach during a season the Bombers look to be desperate to make the playoffs.  I'll predict if he's here next season, he'll be filling the same role as gadget-man..

[Colin Unger]

14 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

If you watch his NFL preseason with the Jets it's basically what you saw from him and Crum on Friday night.  One read in the pocket, then scramble.  The difference between those guys and the elite passing QB's is that read happening pre-snap.  There are a lot of ways to help QB's with that though.  But we're never going to see Streveler have success setting up in the pocket 7 yards deep play after play.  It's going to be RPO, it's going to be moving the pocket and giving the defense looks on multiple and lateral threats (like jet motion or playaction).

You put the defense in a bind and simplify the game.  You read one or a couple keys on defense and based on that we're handing off to the jet, or the back, or you're rolling.  You have 2 guys in the route, if one is there hit him, if not keep running.

You make Streveler's game sustainable by using all the weapons.  We should have a role for all RB's.  We should have a role for Whitehead/Demski as a ball carrier.  If Streveler and Oliviera are in for 40-45 carries in the game plan make it 20-25 touches for Oliviera, 5-10 each for Augustine and Smith, a handful for receivers and hopefully no more than 7-8 designed runs for Streveler.

And granted he was mostly playing against sub CFL talent in the 2nd half and largely 4th quarters of games.  I'm not suggesting making him a drop back passer. But if we are to ever rely on him as our guy we're going to have to device something that allows him to be successful and stay healthy. 

[Booch]

19 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

If you watch his NFL preseason with the Jets it's basically what you saw from him and Crum on Friday night.  One read in the pocket, then scramble.  The difference between those guys and the elite passing QB's is that read happening pre-snap.  There are a lot of ways to help QB's with that though.  But we're never going to see Streveler have success setting up in the pocket 7 yards deep play after play.  It's going to be RPO, it's going to be moving the pocket and giving the defense looks on multiple and lateral threats (like jet motion or playaction).

You put the defense in a bind and simplify the game.  You read one or a couple keys on defense and based on that we're handing off to the jet, or the back, or you're rolling.  You have 2 guys in the route, if one is there hit him, if not keep running.

You make Streveler's game sustainable by using all the weapons.  We should have a role for all RB's.  We should have a role for Whitehead/Demski as a ball carrier.  If Streveler and Oliviera are in for 40-45 carries in the game plan make it 20-25 touches for Oliviera, 5-10 each for Augustine and Smith, a handful for receivers and hopefully no more than 7-8 designed runs for Streveler.

Exactly this...and if Buck schemes for this and we run an offense predicated with this in mind..with the right collection of weapons it would be a very tough offense to defend..and then the majority of Strevs runs are less physical...but the physical aspect is there if and when needed.

 

[Colin Unger]

Id like to see a scheme also when we have Zach back where essentially there's a 3 back set. Streveler, BO, and Zach.  At the last moment on of Zach and Streveler motions to receiver and the other slides over and accepts the shotgun snap.  This would prevent defensenses from doing too much to shut down the RPO stuff with Streveler because until 2 second before the snap they have no idea who's going to be in a qb.