Blue Bombers - 2024 Regular Season - Discussion Thread

[Mike]

22 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

That's the running narrative here for sure. Let's look at a little thing called facts though. Last year he led or was 2nd in every meaningful QB category. He was in the running for MOP through most of the season. He had 2 games last year with a QBR under 95. 

He was, in fact, almost exactly the same statistically as 2022..which he won MOP.

Okay, you’re right, he’s definitely playing great this year.

[17to85]

1 hour ago, GCn20 said:

No one wants to hear about all the drops and routes improperly run. It's all Zac because he suddenly went from MOP calibre to washed up in an offseason.

No it wasn't suddenly,  it started happening over the course of last year. Specifically after the game BC whooped his ass. Yes he had some big games after that but the problems started creeping in and have only continued. Yes he is not getting a lot of help from his receivers right now, but neither is he really helping himself either. Guy has lost "it", and when you are the highest paid player in the league you don't get to blame everyone else. You get paid like that you have to make chicken salad out of chicken **** sometimes. 

[ShyGuy]

It's interesting if you look at the stats. In the Regular season he has clear MOP production but as soon as Fall rolls around (it's hard to tell his October production because the last time the Bombers played a meaningful fall regular season game was pre-pandemic) his numbers take a very noticeable dive. 

 

He's definitely playing like Playoff Collaros and not Regular Season Collaros right now. 

[greenrider55]

1 hour ago, GCn20 said:

That's the running narrative here for sure. Let's look at a little thing called facts though. Last year he led or was 2nd in every meaningful QB category. He was in the running for MOP through most of the season. He had 2 games last year with a QBR under 95. 

He was, in fact, almost exactly the same statistically as 2022..which he won MOP.

Okay and what about the facts this year? His touch on his deep ball is gone. He has a 2-7 TD-INT ratio. He is hurting your team a lot more than he’s helping your team, the deep ball to Wilson that Milligan knocked away should’ve been a walk in touchdown, and maybe two years ago it would’ve been, but Zach has lost it. He looks a lot like the Zach that played for the Riders.

[Brandon]

Why does it feel like O'Shea will make the tough decisions (i.e. benching the vets who are playing like crap) late in the season  and once they actually insert new players who are hungry the team will regain a pulse and come alive and win several games late in the year when it is already too late?   I feel like we've seen smaller versions of this story several years ago where it was glaringly obvious that a few positions needed a new face and when they finally make the change the team sees an instant improvement.   

Why not give Strev 3 - 5 games to see how he can progress and play?  It's not like it could be much worse then Zach and his non existent TD's?   Why not sit Bighill for at least 2 games and see if his replacement can make the tackles that he can no longer make? 

The team can no longer use the excuse of "extended pre season"  or needing to shake the cob webs... what we see is what we are getting at this point so why wait until its late in the year to make a change?   

[Mike]

2024 is extended training camp and preseason for 2025, the only difference is Bighill and Alexander are actually participating 

[3rdand1.5]

For many of the potential player concerns, we don't even have to bench anyone to "try" things out. 

Jake...give him reps but not all of them, get Woods and Adams on at the same time the ratio allows it, see if it helps, rotate Jake more....

BA...Give him reps but let a Hallet take some reps see if one of them can improve, not a ratio concern....if they don't look any good give reps back to BA

Biggie...ditto let the guy start and give him reps, but gives Jones some reps/rotations and see how he looks....again no ratio concerns

Zach...let Strevelor take some plays....look Zach has looked terrible, maybe a few plays off here and there helps him...just when Strev. goes in do more than just run him, get some honest reps, maybe we can do a 1a/1b..it can't be worse..

 

While this one will require a minor roster move, get Lucky on the roster...give him some reps..at least he has been there done that, can back-up at returner....not a ratio concern...easy to get him on

 

These are all easy roster things to try...look veteran leadership and chemistry is important or very much overlooked many times...but what we have now isn't working try a couple easy tweaks like listed above and review it on film.....maybe some of these work, maybe they don't but at least let's try something

[Booch]

7 minutes ago, 3rdand1.5 said:

For many of the potential player concerns, we don't even have to bench anyone to "try" things out. 

Jake...give him reps but not all of them, get Woods and Adams on at the same time the ratio allows it, see if it helps, rotate Jake more....

BA...Give him reps but let a Hallet take some reps see if one of them can improve, not a ratio concern....if they don't look any good give reps back to BA

Biggie...ditto let the guy start and give him reps, but gives Jones some reps/rotations and see how he looks....again no ratio concerns

Zach...let Strevelor take some plays....look Zach has looked terrible, maybe a few plays off here and there helps him...just when Strev. goes in do more than just run him, get some honest reps, maybe we can do a 1a/1b..it can't be worse..

 

While this one will require a minor roster move, get Lucky on the roster...give him some reps..at least he has been there done that, can back-up at returner....not a ratio concern...easy to get him on

 

These are all easy roster things to try...look veteran leadership and chemistry is important or very much overlooked many times...but what we have now isn't working try a couple easy tweaks like listed above and review it on film.....maybe some of these work, maybe they don't but at least let's try something

We can run all import dline for every snap if we choose...in varying combos....we dont need a Canadian Dline guy.....We need 1 canadian on defence...thats it....and if we actually used the Nationalized rule we would have even more flex

Osh chooses to use sub par guys at DT....and at Times end with Hubert...no knock on him but he is far from ready to be a fulltime contributor...he also is of the belief that Krmdi is some all-star and needs to be on the field for all the reps when we can easily put a better...and cheaper optiuon there that is an Import....just poor poor use off assets and SMS money

Thomas really has no business even being here other than on PR or 6 gamed in the scenario where we are absolutely gutted by injury...Biggie and BA too.....they are not the future, they definately should not be considered an optiojn in any role for 2025...and really they are hardly the now...we just stagnating any player development to succeed them, or allowing ourselves to evaluate guys on our PR this yr to see if they worth keeping and developing

Good point in McGhee..They figured he was the dude this yr soley cause they held him all last yr...yet Bonds..Griffen..Bridges all surpassed him and made roster...we still have Parker who may factor in...yet we keep him on PR using up a spot...why not delete him and bring in a new guy to evaluate....That can be said of a lot of our PR guys the last few yrs...clung to guys for several yrs, when they could never make the roster, and then they just dumped to start the process over again....its pretty pathetic when u look at how we have managed things

[Super Duper Negatron]

They have enough injuries this year already to run it back next year. That is what scares me the most.

[JohnnyAbonny]

42 minutes ago, Booch said:

We can run all import dline for every snap if we choose...in varying combos....we dont need a Canadian Dline guy.....We need 1 canadian on defence...thats it....and if we actually used the Nationalized rule we would have even more flex

Osh chooses to use sub par guys at DT....and at Times end with Hubert...no knock on him but he is far from ready to be a fulltime contributor...he also is of the belief that Krmdi is some all-star and needs to be on the field for all the reps when we can easily put a better...and cheaper optiuon there that is an Import....just poor poor use off assets and SMS money

Thomas really has no business even being here other than on PR or 6 gamed in the scenario where we are absolutely gutted by injury...Biggie and BA too.....they are not the future, they definately should not be considered an optiojn in any role for 2025...and really they are hardly the now...we just stagnating any player development to succeed them, or allowing ourselves to evaluate guys on our PR this yr to see if they worth keeping and developing

Good point in McGhee..They figured he was the dude this yr soley cause they held him all last yr...yet Bonds..Griffen..Bridges all surpassed him and made roster...we still have Parker who may factor in...yet we keep him on PR using up a spot...why not delete him and bring in a new guy to evaluate....That can be said of a lot of our PR guys the last few yrs...clung to guys for several yrs, when they could never make the roster, and then they just dumped to start the process over again....its pretty pathetic when u look at how we have managed things

I just realized they run everything like a union shop. Completely seniority based. 

[Colin Unger]

13 hours ago, 17to85 said:

No it wasn't suddenly,  it started happening over the course of last year. Specifically after the game BC whooped his ass. Yes he had some big games after that but the problems started creeping in and have only continued. Yes he is not getting a lot of help from his receivers right now, but neither is he really helping himself either. Guy has lost "it", and when you are the highest paid player in the league you don't get to blame everyone else. You get paid like that you have to make chicken salad out of chicken **** sometimes. 

How do we know that this isn't the same thing that happens to Zach whenever he's on a bad team in the past?  His current offensive line grades out to be the worst in the league in pass protection this season on top of whatever receiving core issues he's dealt with. 
Did Zach actually blame everyone else or did you attribute the comments of a fan supporting him to Zach himself?  It seems as though you're talking more about Zach in terms of value for the dollar rather then looking at where he's at as a player right now. You have expectations for him that that are influenced by how much he's getting paid. Clearly we can't pay him like this next season. He'll have to take a pay cut.  I'd look him strait in the eyes and say if you don't take a paycut we're sticking with Nuefeld and Kolo and see who blinks   

 

 

[Super Duper Negatron]

29 minutes ago, Colin Unger said:

How do we know that this isn't the same thing that happens to Zach whenever he's on a bad team in the past?  His current offensive line grades out to be the worst in the league in pass protection this season on top of whatever receiving core issues he's dealt with. 
Did Zach actually blame everyone else or did you attribute the comments of a fan supporting him to Zach himself?  It seems as though you're talking more about Zach in terms of value for the dollar rather then looking at where he's at as a player right now. You have expectations for him that that are influenced by how much he's getting paid. Clearly we can't pay him like this next season. He'll have to take a pay cut.  I'd look him strait in the eyes and say if you don't take a paycut we're sticking with Nuefeld and Kolo and see who blinks   

 

 

My expectations are that our QB should outperform Shea Patterson. 

[Fatty Liver]

6 minutes ago, Super Duper Negatron said:

My expectations are that our QB should outperform Shea Patterson. 

No surprise, last season Zach lost to Crum, Powell, Dolegala and would have lost to Tre Ford if Brown hadn't intervened.

[17to85]

1 hour ago, Colin Unger said:

How do we know that this isn't the same thing that happens to Zach whenever he's on a bad team in the past?  His current offensive line grades out to be the worst in the league in pass protection this season on top of whatever receiving core issues he's dealt with. 
Did Zach actually blame everyone else or did you attribute the comments of a fan supporting him to Zach himself?  It seems as though you're talking more about Zach in terms of value for the dollar rather then looking at where he's at as a player right now. You have expectations for him that that are influenced by how much he's getting paid. Clearly we can't pay him like this next season. He'll have to take a pay cut.  I'd look him strait in the eyes and say if you don't take a paycut we're sticking with Nuefeld and Kolo and see who blinks   

 

 

You really do struggle with nuance and are entirely literal aren't you? No one ever said collaros was blaming anyone else... but certain fans are making all kinds of excuses for him. Well they doesn't work when you're getting paid like the best player in the league. And how the **** do you not judge a player without considering their salary? Collaros is playing like garbage and if he can't play without 2 of the 3 best receivers in the league and without the very best OL then he has no business getting paid what he does. To be honest I've seen enough from collaros last season and this season to say it's past time to move on. At his age he isn't going to get better and he is the biggest problem on the O right now.

[Colin Unger]

1 hour ago, Super Duper Negatron said:

My expectations are that our QB should outperform Shea Patterson. 

 

My expectation this week was that Zach would outperform Shea and that Vernon Adams would outperform Maier.   What does that have to do with the larger discussion that was being had?

 

[Super Duper Negatron]

14 minutes ago, Colin Unger said:

 

My expectation this week was that Zach would outperform Shea and that Vernon Adams would outperform Maier.   What does that have to do with the larger discussion that was being had?

 

I honestly can't tell if you are being serious.

[Colin Unger]

39 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

You really do struggle with nuance and are entirely literal aren't you? No one ever said collaros was blaming anyone else... but certain fans are making all kinds of excuses for him. Well they doesn't work when you're getting paid like the best player in the league. And how the **** do you not judge a player without considering their salary? Collaros is playing like garbage and if he can't play without 2 of the 3 best receivers in the league and without the very best OL then he has no business getting paid what he does. To be honest I've seen enough from collaros last season and this season to say it's past time to move on. At his age he isn't going to get better and he is the biggest problem on the O right now.

He's not playing well. Even I would prefer to move on from him if there was an incredibly viable alternative option who could win immediately. Your comments sort of sound like what ticats fans would have said when he was on the way out of there. Before setting a record for consecutive appearances and winning two Grey Cups. I think he showed last year that he can win without the best OL in the league. This year he's showing that he can't win with a mediocre defence, below average receiving core and league worst pass blocking offensive line and 8th overall according to PFF. 

His salary certainly needs to be considered. They need to do an analysis on everything this offseason. Viable trade options.  Overall QB cost to release him and replace him with someone else. Who else can we trade or release to free up money. What do we need to do better to compete next season ect. It's certainly hard to imagine he's worth what he's getting paid that's for sure. But as much as we'd like to blame one thing so we only have to fix one thing this team has a lot of issues right now.

[BomberBall.]

2 hours ago, Colin Unger said:

How do we know that this isn't the same thing that happens to Zach whenever he's on a bad team in the past?  His current offensive line grades out to be the worst in the league in pass protection this season on top of whatever receiving core issues he's dealt with. 
Did Zach actually blame everyone else or did you attribute the comments of a fan supporting him to Zach himself?  It seems as though you're talking more about Zach in terms of value for the dollar rather then looking at where he's at as a player right now. You have expectations for him that that are influenced by how much he's getting paid. Clearly we can't pay him like this next season. He'll have to take a pay cut.  I'd look him strait in the eyes and say if you don't take a paycut we're sticking with Nuefeld and Kolo and see who blinks   

 

 

I definitely understand the debate about Zach and his play, and whether or not he’s lost ‘it’…. I’m sure we’ve all had those discussions, but what really burns me is the bolded part above.  Our Oline grades out as the worst, and we haven’t made one single change.  I know these rating systems are subjective at best, but we’ve all seen how poor the line has been.  They absolutely fail the eye test, as well as any grading metric you want to use.  Why hasn’t the team tried a different combination or two?  Do they think it’s going well?  It’s 7 weeks in…. We can’t still be waiting for these guys to gel.  Make a move and replace the subpar players…. We all know who needs to go.  Sack up and do it.

[17to85]

24 minutes ago, Colin Unger said:

He's not playing well. Even I would prefer to move on from him if there was an incredibly viable alternative option who could win immediately. Your comments sort of sound like what ticats fans would have said when he was on the way out of there. Before setting a record for consecutive appearances and winning two Grey Cups. I think he showed last year that he can win without the best OL in the league. This year he's showing that he can't win with a mediocre defence, below average receiving core and league worst pass blocking offensive line and 8th overall according to PFF. 

His salary certainly needs to be considered. They need to do an analysis on everything this offseason. Viable trade options.  Overall QB cost to release him and replace him with someone else. Who else can we trade or release to free up money. What do we need to do better to compete next season ect. It's certainly hard to imagine he's worth what he's getting paid that's for sure. But as much as we'd like to blame one thing so we only have to fix one thing this team has a lot of issues right now.

First of all I am not sure he showed he could win last year consistently... if Brady wasn't rolling the offense wasn't doing ****... second of all the defense this year is bot mediocre. They're playing well despite their faults. I also think collaros, especially the first 4 games made the ol look worse than they are in pass blocking. Guy holds onto the ball way too long. 

 

No one ever said there's just one thing to fix... but don't kid yourself, collaros is a huge problem for this team. Streveler has thrown touchdowns in both games he's got a reasonable amount of playing time, collaros has had one decent game all year (and still needed points from the D to secure that win)

[Booch]

3 minutes ago, BomberBall. said:

I definitely understand the debate about Zach and his play, and whether or not he’s lost ‘it’…. I’m sure we’ve all had those discussions, but what really burns me is the bolded part above.  Our Oline grades out as the worst, and we haven’t made one single change.  I know these rating systems are subjective at best, but we’ve all seen how poor the line has been.  They absolutely fail the eye test, as well as any grading metric you want to use.  Why hasn’t the team tried a different combination or two?  Do they think it’s going well?  It’s 7 weeks in…. We can’t still be waiting for these guys to gel.  Make a move and replace the subpar players…. We all know who needs to go.  Sack up and do it.

ask Osh...I sure we will get the same lame response...based on his denials....veiled excuses and his bias of certain players.....sadly this holds true in many positional spots as well....totaly giving us what we see

We like who we have in the building...Thats why they are here...well....some in the building are way past their best before....and some are not worthy of the role they were given...I say given as opposed to earned, as thats what it has been, so right there thats a pretty good indicator that either a) our coach really lacks the ability to properly assess talent or b) he is really hindering this team with personal favorites , and I guess we can throw c) in here as well...thathe is just utterly clueless/oblivious

And if we like all these guys so much...why doesn't another player get a chance to show they can do better??...

As I see it, a change at MLB...Safety...SAM and going majority reps on Dline would totally revamp this defence

Obtaining and using an actual legit punter, and either sticking with one legit returner (Smith...and let him grow into it)...or finding a legit one...be it proven Chandler Worthy...Trading for a guy like Leake....or scout one...as other teams seem to find them....and our ST's would be top notch, as our cover issues seem to be solved

Start on offence with a change at center with already in the house ELI and go from there...I bet that alone would make a world of difference...and if it doesnt totally solidify it change the deck chairs at guard until it works

Strev needs to get legit/serious reps as an actual full QB...especially in games where ZC looks like trash...which is often now....to see if he can be a legit number one and someone to build around...or if he needs to be the change of pace 1b and short yardage/special package guy...an ideal backup.

Lawler when back should be in with Whitehead and allow us to let Wilson grow with less pressure on him to be "the guy"....let him grow and develop...People seem to think the Whitehead signing was all meh...and that he is lost it...but he adds a ton of value and versatility to what we could do...plus he is a nice option as a backup returner too....or used in tandem

Theres some easy/simple tweaks we can do right now....on the fly that would turn thigs around significantly, and also allow us to bring in new blood and evaluate as we go...this yr...but when we have a stubborn ol smug HC who is basically doing the My way or the Hiway" approach...it seems like a tall order to get done without some upper management intervention

2 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

First of all I am not sure he showed he could win last year consistently... if Brady wasn't rolling the offense wasn't doing ****... second of all the defense this year is bot mediocre. They're playing well despite their faults. I also think collaros, especially the first 4 games made the ol look worse than they are in pass blocking. Guy holds onto the ball way too long. 

 

No one ever said there's just one thing to fix... but don't kid yourself, collaros is a huge problem for this team. Streveler has thrown touchdowns in both games he's got a reasonable amount of playing time, collaros has had one decent game all year (and still needed points from the D to secure that win)

3 minor personell tweaks...and a change in how we roll out our dline philosophy would would have immense changes to how we look on defense....no question about that at all

[17to85]

22 minutes ago, Booch said:

3 minor personell tweaks...and a change in how we roll out our dline philosophy would would have immense changes to how we look on defense....no question about that at all

Honestly the changes I want to see on D are ones that can likely take the D to pretty dominant heights. Points against are already quite good, fix the front 7 usage and you likely see them add in more big game breaking plays.

[wbbfan]

3 hours ago, Colin Unger said:

How do we know that this isn't the same thing that happens to Zach whenever he's on a bad team in the past?  His current offensive line grades out to be the worst in the league in pass protection this season on top of whatever receiving core issues he's dealt with. 
Did Zach actually blame everyone else or did you attribute the comments of a fan supporting him to Zach himself?  It seems as though you're talking more about Zach in terms of value for the dollar rather then looking at where he's at as a player right now. You have expectations for him that that are influenced by how much he's getting paid. Clearly we can't pay him like this next season. He'll have to take a pay cut.  I'd look him strait in the eyes and say if you don't take a paycut we're sticking with Nuefeld and Kolo and see who blinks   

 

 

It isn’t even close to the worst ol in the league and hasn’t been for about a month. 
 Kola is a problem. Neuf is passed it and lofton might only be a stop gap, but over all the pressure has largely come from blitzes. Zach can’t seem to read the blitz and get it out fast or read when the D shows blitz and drops, or when they rotate coverage. 
 Zach also has the best blocking rb and wrs in the league. If you put him on any team in the league he’d struggle. 
 When he gets pressure he’s tucking the ball, indecisive between running and throwing, takes his eyes off the wrs and locks in on the pass rush, pumps and hesitates. 
 The ball isn’t coming out of his hand clean, I don’t think his throwing hand is 100%. But the biggest problem he faces is between his ears. 

[17to85]

Much respect for collaros being a huge part of the dominant stretch this team had and he's going down in the teams history books.... but he has been complete ass in back to back grey cups and has been on a steady downward trend 2 seasons now. Guy is finished, and at his age with as many city miles as there are on that body I don't expect him to get back to his former glory now matter what situation he's in. He has become too predictable. Too easy for defenses to play against.

[Brandon]

55 minutes ago, Booch said:

3 minor personell tweaks...and a change in how we roll out our dline philosophy would would have immense changes to how we look on defense....no question about that at all

Even if it's a minor upgrade... it could help at least ease the transition until the NFL cuts where maybe we can sign a big upgrade late in the season. 

[WinnipegGordo]

5 minutes ago, Brandon said:

Even if it's a minor upgrade... it could help at least ease the transition until the NFL cuts where maybe we can sign a big upgrade late in the season. 

The problem is here is the team never uses NFL cuts as a chance to upgrade their current roster. The cuts they bring in are getting looked at for the following year.