Blue Bombers - 2024 Regular Season - Discussion Thread

[Booch]

Just now, GCn20 said:

The thing is assbags generally reveal themselves after the fact. I am pretty sure no one figured Craig Dickenson or Corey Mace would have a bunch of d-bags running their locker room....but they did. I am also pretty sure they had incredible answers as to how they would change the culture of their teams....then didn't. MOS is a true leader of men. That, more than anything else in his job title, is what makes him the best HC in the CFL. Is he perfect? Nope. Is there any other coach that I would want leading our team at this moment. Nope. I think it seriously underscores just how good of a coach he is when people suggest we can get rid of him and nothing would change. Lots would change.

I think tho the issue there was/is Oday bringing in again...some kind of selfish idiots...You can see it in their play still

Look how for example some..well majority of their recievers act...even on a simple insignificant play....like tools....same on defence....Then watch Schoen...This yr Wilson...Woli....how they act?...night and day

And yeah you have to have that trait of a leader...Osh has it....no question...Dickie always got walked on...and got the job by default as there was nobody...Mace as well got it as the bridesmaid....I never really saw the fascination with him to be honest...Plus he needs to act like the leader....and a coach and not be a buddy of the players....he needs a lot of polishing and even then I not sure he will be overly succesful...not to be rude or call a guy out but he doesnt seem to be the sharpest knife in the drawer

Osh was/is very schooled in the game....and league....huge difference there....

 

5 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

That’s a damn good question. If you have the right younger guys, kongbo and desjarlais were those types, they take over and push the former leaders to follow or get out the way. Do we have a batch of replacement guys? I don’t think so but we might. 
 

truth. That’s gotta be one of the hardest stretches in history for football fans. That and the browns for like 15 years lol. 
 

it is well with in your control to not read things you don’t want to, block scroll etc. it’s 100% valid on topic bomber discussion. What isn’t? Whinging about 100% valid on topic bomber discussion. 
 

if Paul wasn’t a culture fit, they wouldn’t have brought him in though.  Many of the ast coaches could run the team with the same culture. Buck, jy, hall etc. 

And Walter’s before that. I said the culture was turned over to and ran by the locker room before 19. Not that it existed pre 19. 
 If you brought in an out side hc, the culture would change some, unless wade and Walter’s the highest level culture setters brought in another guy like mos. Even then you’d see similar culture but with tweaks. With an inside hire who was the ast hc and oc? Nah. 

Some people are snakes in the grass and hide their nature, but they mostly fool people who want to be fooled or are vulnerable. If you set out for culture first and prioritize it, you will find it. 
 In the hirings of Dickenson, mace, Chris jones etc the respective teams were trying to get instant value when coaching development is a process like any other. When wade and Walter’s hired mos, they knew and accepted it would be an investment. 

yup...pretty sure nobody will pull wool over Miller's eyes

[bigg jay]

8 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

The thing is assbags generally reveal themselves after the fact. I am pretty sure no one figured Craig Dickenson or Corey Mace would have a bunch of d-bags running their locker room....but they did. I am also pretty sure they had incredible answers as to how they would change the culture of their teams....then didn't. MOS is a true leader of men. That, more than anything else in his job title, is what makes him the best HC in the CFL. Is he perfect? Nope. Is there any other coach that I would want leading our team at this moment. Nope. I think it seriously underscores just how good of a coach he is when people suggest we can get rid of him and nothing would change. Lots would change.

What has given you the impression that Dickenson has ever had the balls to run a locker room?  He has always struck me as an "aw shucks, I'm just happy to be here kind of guy".  Not someone who would command respect in any way shape or form.  As far as Mace goes, he seems like a guy players would listen to more than Dickenson but he's still in year one so even if he wanted to change that locker room, it's going to take time.  It's not like we didn't have some shitheads in Osh's early days (Kuale comes to mind).  He's also stuck with O'Day as his GM so there's only so much he can do.

[wbbfan]

3 minutes ago, Booch said:

I think tho the issue there was/is Oday bringing in again...some kind of selfish idiots...You can see it in their play still

Look how for example some..well majority of their recievers act...even on a simple insignificant play....like tools....same on defence....Then watch Schoen...This yr Wilson...Woli....how they act?...night and day

And yeah you have to have that trait of a leader...Osh has it....no question...Dickie always got walked on...and got the job by default as there was nobody...Mace as well got it as the bridesmaid....I never really saw the fascination with him to be honest...Plus he needs to act like the leader....and a coach and not be a buddy of the players....he needs a lot of polishing and even then I not sure he will be overly succesful...not to be rude or call a guy out but he doesnt seem to be the sharpest knife in the drawer

Osh was/is very schooled in the game....and league....huge difference there....

 

yup...pretty sure nobody will pull wool over Miller's eyes

100%. 

[Booch]

the culture there is same as it was, maybe a lil bit less...they just brought in some wolve's in sheep's clothing to keep it more on the down low

 

[GCn20]

12 minutes ago, bigg jay said:

What has given you the impression that Dickenson has ever had the balls to run a locker room?  He has always struck me as an "aw shucks, I'm just happy to be here kind of guy".  Not someone who would command respect in any way shape or form.  As far as Mace goes, he seems like a guy players would listen to more than Dickenson but he's still in year one so even if he wanted to change that locker room, it's going to take time.  It's not like we didn't have some shitheads in Osh's early days (Kuale comes to mind).  He's also stuck with O'Day as his GM so there's only so much he can do.

I've never had the impression that Dickie could lead a locker room but he managed to convince a pro-football GM that he could. That's what I'm alluding to. Guys can interview great and then end up being a mess after.

12 minutes ago, Booch said:

the culture there is same as it was, maybe a lil bit less...they just brought in some wolve's in sheep's clothing to keep it more on the down low

 

Using Saskatchewan as an example of bad culture creeping in may be a bad example in hindsight. There culture has been broken since Reynolds first day on the job was to go out and break league rules by tampering. Kind of hard to enforce any sort of discipline on any staff member after that.

[Booch]

2 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

I've never had the impression that Dickie could lead a locker room but he managed to convince a pro-football GM that he could. That's what I'm alluding to. Guys can interview great and then end up being a mess after.

I think you just hit nail on the head there...the Purge needed to start at Oday and the numbnutz above him to create the new culture....and they continue to keep those 2 guys employed

We brought in Wade....he cleaned house and set the standard...Promoted Walters...they brought in Osh....the rest is history

If the 2 above Osh were not here in the beginning...I guarantee Osh would have been canned ....he almost was...But those 2 believed in their vision...and gave him more time....

[GCn20]

1 hour ago, Booch said:

I think you just hit nail on the head there...the Purge needed to start at Oday and the numbnutz above him to create the new culture....and they continue to keep those 2 guys employed

We brought in Wade....he cleaned house and set the standard...Promoted Walters...they brought in Osh....the rest is history

If the 2 above Osh were not here in the beginning...I guarantee Osh would have been canned ....he almost was...But those 2 believed in their vision...and gave him more time....

Walters was already here when we had the circus in town. Walters bought into MOS's vision, not the other way around. Kyle Walters was a big part of our management team in some of the darkest times in our franchise. He was quite likely very open to a huge culture change, but it was MOS who was asked to do that.

[bigg jay]

18 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Walters was already here when we had the circus in town. Walters bought into MOS's vision, not the other way around. Kyle Walters was a big part of our management team in some of the darkest times in our franchise. He was quite likely very open to a huge culture change, but it was MOS who was asked to do that.

Walters came here as AGM in 2013 and MOS came in 2014 so it wasn't like Walters was a long term firmly entrenched guy.

[Rich]

16 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Walters was already here when we had the circus in town. Walters bought into MOS's vision, not the other way around. Kyle Walters was a big part of our management team in some of the darkest times in our franchise. He was quite likely very open to a huge culture change, but it was MOS who was asked to do that.

Walter’s was the special teams coach and had  just moved into assistant GM. Questionable how much influence he had on the prior regime. He was interim GM in 2013.  Hired O’Shea that off season when he had the interim tag removed and he and O’Shea have been together since. 

It takes all people executing at a high level to have the success the Bombers have had in the last 7 years.  

[GCn20]

2 minutes ago, Rich said:

Walter’s was the special teams coach and had  just moved into assistant GM. Questionable how much influence he had on the prior regime. He was interim GM in 2013.  Hired O’Shea that off season when he had the interim tag removed and he and O’Shea have been together since. 

It takes all people executing at a high level to have the success the Bombers have had in the last 7 years.  

For sure, However, Walters was there in 2013 and we all saw what we saw. Walters undoubtedly saw the need for a culture change but it was MOS's vision of culture that he bought into as the team was devoid of culture during the previous years that Walters was there. I am not blaming Walters for that, simply stating that it was MOS tasked to revamp the culture. The culture wasn't something that MOS went along with, he was hired and tasked to bring about that change.

6 minutes ago, bigg jay said:

Walters came here as AGM in 2013 and MOS came in 2014 so it wasn't like Walters was a long term firmly entrenched guy.

Walters was here before 2013. His role changed in 2013 but he was already with the Bombers.

[wbbfan]

25 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Walters was already here when we had the circus in town. Walters bought into MOS's vision, not the other way around. Kyle Walters was a big part of our management team in some of the darkest times in our franchise. He was quite likely very open to a huge culture change, but it was MOS who was asked to do that.

Walters and wade werent here that long before mos, but their first major moves in that off season was bringing him in. With out question wade and walters brought in mos largely on a shared philosophy on culture. It has to be top down though. Mos, with the riders under Oday would not have a team with a strong culture. No one would. Gms, and presidents don't hire coaches who don't share their outlook, simple as that. Plus if you look at wades businesses and Guelph from when walters was there, it's all the same deal. 

 That point can also be clearly seen in the fact he was brought back in his 3rd year after 2 losing seasons. Very few front offices give guys 3 years. Especially after the complete disaster that came the year prior to mos. Most front offices would've sent him packing to find a vet coach. 

[bigg jay]

4 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Walters was here before 2013. His role changed in 2013 but he was already with the Bombers.

Yeah, worded poorly but I meant as a part of the management team which is what you referenced.    

[wbbfan]

9 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

For sure, However, Walters was there in 2013 and we all saw what we saw. Walters undoubtedly saw the need for a culture change but it was MOS's vision of culture that he bought into as the team was devoid of culture during the previous years that Walters was there. I am not blaming Walters for that, simply stating that it was MOS tasked to revamp the culture. The culture wasn't something that MOS went along with, he was hired and tasked to bring about that change.

Walters was here before 2013. His role changed in 2013 but he was already with the Bombers.

He came in 10, as a ST coach and like some others in the past also worked with our Canadian scouting and development team (which is why he was poised to become the interim GM). No one, had significant power under joe mack. (front office wise)

Edited September 18 by wbbfan

[GCn20]

1 minute ago, bigg jay said:

Yeah, worded poorly but I meant as a part of the management team which is what you referenced.    

He was AGM in 2012 as well and was part of the management team in a coaching/scouting role prior.

Just now, wbbfan said:

He came in 10, as a ST coach and like some others in the past also worked with our Canadian scouting and development team (which is why he was poised to become the interim GM). No one, had significant power under joe mack. (front office wise)

Front office wise he was under Joe Mack, but in 2013 he had an opportunity to begin changing the culture. He elected to hire MOS and leave it to him, as he should have.

[wbbfan]

2 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

He was AGM in 2012 as well and was part of the management team in a coaching/scouting role prior.

Front office wise he was under Joe Mack, but in 2013 he had an opportunity to begin changing the culture. He elected to hire MOS and leave it to him, as he should have.

It wasn't 2012, it was 2013, and he didn't have any chance to impact culture in 13 in a meaningful way being sandwiched between mack and burke. The flushing at the end of that year cleared the slate to finally fully rebuild the mess left from the kelly year. 

 

Walters first made the move from the sidelines to the management chair as he began his tenure as Assistant General Manager and Director of Canadian Scouting with the Blue Bombers in 2013.

 

[Booch]

17 minutes ago, bigg jay said:

Walters came here as AGM in 2013 and MOS came in 2014 so it wasn't like Walters was a long term firmly entrenched guy.

Correct

..and it was Miller's vision...he saw we needed serious change top to bottom...and made them

43 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Walters was already here when we had the circus in town. Walters bought into MOS's vision, not the other way around. Kyle Walters was a big part of our management team in some of the darkest times in our franchise. He was quite likely very open to a huge culture change, but it was MOS who was asked to do that.

And you know this how?? From my understanding and what I heard it was somewhat other way around...osh vision or what he hoped to accomplish tied into in what Miller and Co. wanted to create here...Professionalism top to bottom with quality people

14 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

Walters and wade werent here that long before mos, but their first major moves in that off season was bringing him in. With out question wade and walters brought in mos largely on a shared philosophy on culture. It has to be top down though. Mos, with the riders under Oday would not have a team with a strong culture. No one would. Gms, and presidents don't hire coaches who don't share their outlook, simple as that. Plus if you look at wades businesses and Guelph from when walters was there, it's all the same deal. 

 That point can also be clearly seen in the fact he was brought back in his 3rd year after 2 losing seasons. Very few front offices give guys 3 years. Especially after the complete disaster that came the year prior to mos. Most front offices would've sent him packing to find a vet coach. 

This is exactly correct...vision of one matched the expectation of other...

[GCn20]

1 minute ago, wbbfan said:

It wasn't 2012, it was 2013, and he didn't have any chance to impact culture in 13 in a meaningful way being sandwiched between mack and burke. The flushing at the end of that year cleared the slate to finally fully rebuild the mess left from the kelly year. 

 

Walters first made the move from the sidelines to the management chair as he began his tenure as Assistant General Manager and Director of Canadian Scouting with the Blue Bombers in 2013.

 

Walters was named assistant GM and director of canadian scouting on December 5/2012. He took over as acting GM a few games into the 2013 season when they fired Mack.

[bigg jay]

Here's a good article from when Walters took over in 2013 as it regards to the culture of the team.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/football/cfl/kyle-walters-named-acting-general-manager-of-winnipeg-blue-bombers-replacing-joe-mack/

 

[GCn20]

4 minutes ago, Booch said:

Correct

..and it was Miller's vision...he saw we needed serious change top to bottom...and made them

And you know this how?? From my understanding and what I heard it was somewhat other way around...osh vision or what he hoped to accomplish tied into in what Miller and Co. wanted to create here...Professionalism top to bottom with quality people

This is exactly correct...vision of one matched the expectation of other...

How do I know that? Walters stated so. He gave a very lengthy interview about why and how he hired MOS in the pre-amble to the '19 Grey Cup. If you've heard differently then it is at odds with Walters own recollection of events. I completely agree that Walters and Miller wanted to create a better and winning culture. My point is that they hired MOS to do that and gave him free rein to do so.

Edited September 18 by GCn20

[wbbfan]

Just now, GCn20 said:

Walters was named assistant GM and director of canadian scouting on December 5/2012. He took over as acting GM a few games into the 2013 season when they fired Mack.

Blue bombers web page was the source. also, it was right before week 8. 

[17to85]

1 hour ago, Rich said:

Questionable how much influence he had on the prior regime.

Were there not tons of stories about how he constantly disagreed with the draft picks the team was making?

[Noeller]

 

 

 

[K-Shack]

3 hours ago, wbbfan said:

The flushing at the end of that year cleared the slate to finally fully rebuild the mess left from the kelly year. 

I remember when Butchko requested permission from the board to fire Mack and instead was also let go himself. Wade taking on the President role turned our franchise around. And if I recall correctly, one of the big factors in keeping Walters as GM was that there wasn't a lot of time to prepare for the Ottawa expansion draft and so his familiarity with the roster was key. 

[MOBomberFan]

Butchko wow how quick I erased him from memory. I can remember him at center field waving to the crowd as he was booed into oblivion, I bet he has nightmares about it

[Mark H.]

4 hours ago, wbbfan said:

No one, had significant power under joe mack. (front office wise)

Ain't that the truth.

I can't thank you enough for that trip down memory lane.

The video clips of them drafting Muluumba and Pencer come to mind.

🙃