Blue Bombers - 2024 Regular Season - Discussion Thread

[Booch]

10 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

It was a factor in our losses for sure. The only factor? Nope. There were multiple reasons we lost that game and most of them were not on the coaching. My objection is that you guys say that with better coaching we would have won...and it's only partially true..we also needed about a half dozen brain cramps, busted coverages, and poor QB decisions,  back as well. Had we played a clean game up to the level of our lineup we had it's quite possible that roster usage may not have mattered

I agree as well....but part of the better coaching part...was putting the right guys on the roster too....and possibly better preparing the ones who were

2023...at minimum 5 guys who were too hurt to play....and then having a couple guys on sidelines who could have...not step on field....thats on coaching

Removing a seasoned play-off vet like Rose for no real particular reason as he was not playing poorly.....thats on coaches

ZC against the Argo's in 2022....was very apparent he was not able to play at a level required due to injury...and yet...was kept in....again...poor coaching....if anything they should have let the n=backup get 1 or 2 series to see if it added a spark

Dressing an undermanned and underwhelming dline for that game....who puts out that roster?....the coach

I won't go on about it but beyond some the underwhelming performance by some of our guys...our coaching further handi-capped things....hope we have learned 

[Booch]

when I look at bad in game play...wth broken coverage....poor qb decisions....missed assignments...I look toward the lead up prep and how staffs I have been part have had taken each group...ran thru scenarios...all the alterations they may see...and how you adjust and make sure guys are all on same page and are aware of things they may not have even considered....which can minimize and for most part eliminate busts...etc....I am of the belief we don't coach that up enough and Osh puts too much faith in the guys in the room and the vets are on top of it and doing it....hands off at times is good to a point, but you also have to still be that coach and be certain all the boxes are checked...T's crossed and i's dotted...He has himself even admitted that he doesn't do that....maybe he should....The TD that won it against us in last yr's Grey Cup was Houston lack of seeing things...and knowing that pattern...Rose would have easily sniffed that out....but Rose was in civies

[wbbfan]

1 hour ago, GCn20 said:

It was a factor in our losses for sure. The only factor? Nope. There were multiple reasons we lost that game and most of them were not on the coaching. My objection is that you guys say that with better coaching we would have won...and it's only partially true..we also needed about a half dozen brain cramps, busted coverages, and poor QB decisions,  back as well. Had we played a clean game up to the level of our lineup we had it's quite possible that roster usage may not have mattered

It’s certainly not the only factor. 
 I think you can fairly compare being out coached in game plan and adjustments/play call to roster management. As well as player readiness and execution, which is a good part coaching as well. 
 You’re right too that in several roles we’ve simply not played at the level you’d expect. Wj, zach, and a bunch of other guys haven’t lived up to their own standards. With good to great coaching you don’t see that as much but it still happens. 
we largely put prep out side of film and playbook install on the locker room. When that fails, the blame has to be split. When it happens repeatedly, it’s much more on coaching. 

[17to85]

So how much of the execution problems in last years grey cup go back to dressing the ir receivers for the game? Playing on hard mode when half your guys can't run.

[ddanger]

On 2024-10-21 at 5:21 PM, Jpan85 said:

Not sure if this on track or ahead of schedule but Streveler posted a video of his rehab the past month. Is already riding a stationary bike.

I saw that video. Glad to see he is going strong on his rehab. Some of the earlier pictures were nasty.

[Goalie]

38 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

So how much of the execution problems in last years grey cup go back to dressing the ir receivers for the game? Playing on hard mode when half your guys can't run.

I think in football it comes down to how your QB plays in the big games. Zach hasn’t been great.  Brady mahomes Montana etc they all showed up when it mattered. Has Zach?  

Edited October 23 by Goalie

[17to85]

28 minutes ago, Goalie said:

I think in football it comes down to how your QB plays in the big games. Zach hasn’t been great.  Brady mahomes Montana etc they all showed up when it mattered. Has Zach?  

So I got a lot of thoughts about thar, however as I said, it's hard mode when your receivers are all gimped.

[wbbfan]

1 hour ago, 17to85 said:

So how much of the execution problems in last years grey cup go back to dressing the ir receivers for the game? Playing on hard mode when half your guys can't run.

Fair question and a tough one. But biggie was also playing in hospital mode and not alone. 
 Thing is, I think any one of 3 primary coaching issues if changed, alone win it for us. At that point, I don’t think it matters which one is greater. 

40 minutes ago, Goalie said:

I think in football it comes down to how your QB plays in the big games. Zach hasn’t been great.  Brady mahomes Montana etc they all showed up when it mattered. Has Zach?  

As I broke down previously, I don’t think zach has had 1 really good game in the playoffs. And yeah, that really really hurts. 

[Booch]

12 hours ago, wbbfan said:

It’s certainly not the only factor. 
 I think you can fairly compare being out coached in game plan and adjustments/play call to roster management. As well as player readiness and execution, which is a good part coaching as well. 
 You’re right too that in several roles we’ve simply not played at the level you’d expect. Wj, zach, and a bunch of other guys haven’t lived up to their own standards. With good to great coaching you don’t see that as much but it still happens. 
we largely put prep out side of film and playbook install on the locker room. When that fails, the blame has to be split. When it happens repeatedly, it’s much more on coaching. 

coaching issues despite all our success has also crippled and killed us

 

11 hours ago, 17to85 said:

So how much of the execution problems in last years grey cup go back to dressing the ir receivers for the game? Playing on hard mode when half your guys can't run.

Tons....3 guys were useless...and Mtl barely gave them a hard look and took away Lawler..BO...and knew if they went to Bailey..Demski...Schoen that they could get away with soft/minimal coverage and get to the ball and incur minimal damage

Was blatantly obvious....and even the healthiest (Demski) who you could of got away with if you had 4 other healthy guys after his first sweep....i think was a sweep....could see he had zero burst or sxplosiveness.....as we let BOLO stand there all game...and could have dressed a vet like Ambles...who had played that yr....knows cfl defenses inside and out and would have known more than enough of the play book to be effective....and regardless, MTL would have to have dedicated attention to both him and Bolo and would have gave the others room to perform.....sad fact we barely lost, and part of the blame there wwas the defensive lineup...we all know what that was......fact of matter....That was all on coaching....and 90% reason why we biffed our second straight cup

 

10 hours ago, wbbfan said:

Fair question and a tough one. But biggie was also playing in hospital mode and not alone. 
 Thing is, I think any one of 3 primary coaching issues if changed, alone win it for us. At that point, I don’t think it matters which one is greater. 

As I broke down previously, I don’t think zach has had 1 really good game in the playoffs. And yeah, that really really hurts. 

Just like in 2022...ZC was clear and obvious hurt...and not able to run the offence effectively....and he took every damn snap

 

11 hours ago, Goalie said:

I think in football it comes down to how your QB plays in the big games. Zach hasn’t been great.  Brady mahomes Montana etc they all showed up when it mattered. Has Zach?  

Thats where your coach has to have the foresight and ability to see issues and  buck his trend of believing the starter is always great and maybe make a change....if not if for anything 1 series and let the main QB see what's going on from the sidelinesthis is a key issue I think....Osh puts too much faith in guys in room gettting the extra stuff done...and how we have came out in many games...how we have no answer at times in some and where we have guys looking totally out to lunch is an indication that the team isn't/wasn't prepared totally and that coaching was to lean....and when your roster isnt loaded anymore...well....

[GCn20]

14 hours ago, wbbfan said:

It’s certainly not the only factor. 
 I think you can fairly compare being out coached in game plan and adjustments/play call to roster management. As well as player readiness and execution, which is a good part coaching as well. 
 You’re right too that in several roles we’ve simply not played at the level you’d expect. Wj, zach, and a bunch of other guys haven’t lived up to their own standards. With good to great coaching you don’t see that as much but it still happens. 
we largely put prep out side of film and playbook install on the locker room. When that fails, the blame has to be split. When it happens repeatedly, it’s much more on coaching. 

Prep is on the players. I'm not going to defend Hall's defensive play calling in last year's GC. It was bad. However, we had guys simply blow coverages at key moments, and ZC making errant throws and that is NOT on coaching...ever.

[wbbfan]

24 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Prep is on the players. I'm not going to defend Hall's defensive play calling in last year's GC. It was bad. However, we had guys simply blow coverages at key moments, and ZC making errant throws and that is NOT on coaching...ever.

It isn't that simple with coaching. Creating a game plan, installing the weeks playbook, the play call, and in game adjustments aren't just about what the other team is doing / wants to do. It's equally about putting your guys in a position to succeed. It is 100% the coaches job to prep the players for who they are facing on a personnel match up level as well. You see "blown coverage", but what you don't see is a DB not knowing how to defend a jump step at the line, or understanding wr tendencies that tips fake cuts, double moves etc. You see an errant throw, but don't see the route concept being messed up because multiple WRs cant run or cut hard. 

Preparation and execution especially on a team or unit level are 100% dictated by coaching. Tackling for instance is a direct result of discipline enforced by the coaching staff. Slack discipline means arm tackles, selling out for hits etc. Tight discipline and prep means guys are flying to the ball, gang tackling, and wrapping up. 

Physicality is one of the biggest signs of how well prepared a team is, 19 gc we blew hamilton off the ball in all 3 phases of the game with our physicality. The last two years we've been beat physically by mtl and tor. That is the difference between players running week of walk throughs and having total control of the locker room and culture vs coaches. 

Look at any team that makes a coaching change in season. Look at the previous week then the weeks after. You see the same players and an immediate change in preparation level and execution. Because it stems from a coaching staff leading their team. Early tenure they get it easily, late on they struggle. But it is a coaches job at each level to run preparation each week. 

[Booch]

38 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Prep is on the players. I'm not going to defend Hall's defensive play calling in last year's GC. It was bad. However, we had guys simply blow coverages at key moments, and ZC making errant throws and that is NOT on coaching...ever.

prep is on players yes...but also they need to be coached and prepped by coaches too....just assuming or allowing self policing...well gets a lot of times the errors you see.....preperation for a  game or a scheme is much further than giving a page in a play book and saying "learn this at your leisure"

hate to harp on it...but coaching has failed us at times with the belief the room was doing what needed to be done....if thats the case...why even have coaches?...right?

2 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

It isn't that simple with coaching. Creating a game plan, installing the weeks playbook, the play call, and in game adjustments aren't just about what the other team is doing / wants to do. It's equally about putting your guys in a position to succeed. It is 100% the coaches job to prep the players for who they are facing on a personnel match up level as well. You see "blown coverage", but what you don't see is a DB not knowing how to defend a jump step at the line, or understanding wr tendencies that tips fake cuts, double moves etc. You see an errant throw, but don't see the route concept being messed up because multiple WRs cant run or cut hard. 

Preparation and execution especially on a team or unit level are 100% dictated by coaching. Tackling for instance is a direct result of discipline enforced by the coaching staff. Slack discipline means arm tackles, selling out for hits etc. Tight discipline and prep means guys are flying to the ball, gang tackling, and wrapping up. 

Physicality is one of the biggest signs of how well prepared a team is, 19 gc we blew hamilton off the ball in all 3 phases of the game with our physicality. The last two years we've been beat physically by mtl and tor. That is the difference between players running week of walk throughs and having total control of the locker room and culture vs coaches. 

Look at any team that makes a coaching change in season. Look at the previous week then the weeks after. You see the same players and an immediate change in preparation level and execution. Because it stems from a coaching staff leading their team. Early tenure they get it easily, late on they struggle. But it is a coaches job at each level to run preparation each week. 

yup...and then going over with the players every conceivable thing that may occur, or how a team may deviate....you just can't assume the players will do it themselves...and even then....especially with newer players....there is stuff they havn't seen or even thought of...I think some here don't really understand the coaching and install process and what actually needs...and should go into it

[wbbfan]

5 minutes ago, Booch said:

prep is on players yes...but also they need to be coached and prepped by coaches too....just assuming or allowing self policing...well gets a lot of times the errors you see.....preperation for a  game or a scheme is much further than giving a page in a play book and saying "learn this at your leisure"

hate to harp on it...but coaching has failed us at times with the belief the room was doing what needed to be done....if thats the case...why even have coaches?...right?

yup...and then going over with the players every conceivable thing that may occur, or how a team may deviate....you just can't assume the players will do it themselves...and even then....especially with newer players....there is stuff they havn't seen or even thought of...I think some here don't really understand the coaching and install process and what actually needs...and should go into it

Yep, prep is the result of film study leading into good practices and walk throughs and game plans putting guys in a position to counter what the other team does and into position to do what they do best. 

 I think the amount of work that units do is lost on a lot of people. The position coaches and position meetings, then O/D/STs and the role that all plays in practice and install. Every NFL and major ncaa teams stadium has bedrooms because some players and most of the coaches work 18+ hours a day on team prep up until the final walk through of the week. 

[Booch]

10 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

Yep, prep is the result of film study leading into good practices and walk throughs and game plans putting guys in a position to counter what the other team does and into position to do what they do best. 

 I think the amount of work that units do is lost on a lot of people. The position coaches and position meetings, then O/D/STs and the role that all plays in practice and install. Every NFL and major ncaa teams stadium has bedrooms because some players and most of the coaches work 18+ hours a day on team prep up until the final walk through of the week. 

yup....I've seen in college some coaches being basically away from home...but in the same city from wed to sat night....and then are right back at stadium sunday morning

 

[wbbfan]

1 hour ago, Booch said:

yup....I've seen in college some coaches being basically away from home...but in the same city from wed to sat night....and then are right back at stadium sunday morning

 

Yeah, coaching is soo much harder on families than playing when you’re at any decent level. “Football season widows” is a bitter inside joke that people don’t really see. Or how most of the position coaches and cos live season to season. It’s brutal, that’s why I don’t question guys who take cushy jobs with huge pay days. Get it when you can. 

[bigg jay]

Team award winners have been announced:

Most Outstanding Player: running back Brady Oliveira*
Most Outstanding Canadian Player: running back Brady Oliveira*
Most Outstanding Defensive Player: cornerback Tyrell Ford
Most Outstanding Offensive Lineman: left tackle Stanley Bryant*
Most Outstanding Special Teams Player: placekicker Sergio Castillo*
Most Outstanding Rookie: receiver Ontaria Wilson*

*unanimous selection

https://www.bluebombers.com/2024/10/23/winnipeg-blue-bombers-announce-team-award-winners/

League-wide lists: 

https://www.cfl.ca/2024/10/23/time-to-shine-team-award-winners-enter-spotlight/

Edited October 23 by bigg jay
Added link

[17to85]

Oliviera should win MOP and MOC pretty easily IMO.

[JCon]

14 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Oliviera should win MOP and MOC pretty easily IMO.

Except, we know what trash the media in Ontario is, so give BLM the award now. 

Farhan will vote for McInnis. 

[Booch]

17 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Oliviera should win MOP and MOC pretty easily IMO.

Yup...should...but....

[Noeller]

I hope both Brady O and Ford have monster games this weekend to cement it and leave no doubt. 

[Fatty Liver]

37 minutes ago, Noeller said:

I hope both Brady O and Ford have monster games this weekend to cement it and leave no doubt. 

The voters always try to balance out the awards and spread them around, the most the Bombers can hope for is Brady receiving one award and Ontaria Wilson winning MOR.  Stanley has been capped at 4, and Ty Ford stands little chance of winning against Milligan and the green background noise that's pushing him for MOP. 

[wbbfan]

1 hour ago, Noeller said:

I hope both Brady O and Ford have monster games this weekend to cement it and leave no doubt. 

Yup. 
 Ford should have modp and Brady moc for sure. Brady also mop? I think the voters will spread the love to the east. I could also see them giving mulligan modp, Brady moc, and some one stupid in the east mop. 

[voodoochylde]

1 hour ago, Noeller said:

I hope both Brady O and Ford have monster games this weekend to cement it and leave no doubt. 

Agreed.

Brady is closing on on 2000 yards from scrimmage.  He'd need a monster game to get there (217 yards) but considering how POORLY this team played in the early part of the season, I'm amazed he's as close as he is.  It's even more impressive when you consider he played two fewer games than last year when he finished with 2016 total yards from scrimmage.  Brady *should* be a serious contender for MOP.

[Booch]

8 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

Yup. 
 Ford should have modp and Brady moc for sure. Brady also mop? I think the voters will spread the love to the east. I could also see them giving mulligan modp, Brady moc, and some one stupid in the east mop. 

Brady I think should be a lock for Canadian and Wilson for ROY......And really BO should also be the M.O.P too but again...the voters at times seem to have an agenda

McCinnis faded bad...and really wasn't the force...or the straw that stirred his teams drink...over looking that due to early season tire pumping...and a team that declined would be a shame...border on crime

Our football "writers" need to look at his volume of work the last couple seasons too...All-time great 2023 season stats for a Canadian RB...3rd straight 1000 yard season...2nd in a row leading league...pushing another 2000 combined yard season...those are numbers that would rival any elite RB the last few decades....he has earned it

3 minutes ago, voodoochylde said:

Agreed.

Brady is closing on on 2000 yards from scrimmage.  He'd need a monster game to get there (217 yards) but considering how POORLY this team played in the early part of the season, I'm amazed he's as close as he is.  It's even more impressive when you consider he played two fewer games than last year when he finished with 2016 total yards from scrimmage.  Brady *should* be a serious contender for MOP.

u read my mind as I was typing

M.O.P relative to his team....if he was missing...we are really hampered...McInnis..Milligan..who are being pushed by media as front runners...remove them...not a really big loss...

[Pete]

4 hours ago, wbbfan said:

Yup. 
 Ford should have modp and Brady moc for sure. Brady also mop? I think the voters will spread the love to the east. I could also see them giving mulligan modp, Brady moc, and some one stupid in the east mop. 

Hopefully some of the mdp and mop votes get split between Beverette and Milligan, so Brady can get mop. The thing is Brady actually had a better year last year and didn't win (which was robbery)

Edited October 24 by Pete