17to85 Posted June 11 Report Share Posted June 11 45 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said: I think they've lost their way. The advantage the 16-19 teams had was being better prepared and willing to play harder than opponents. Think of all the key special teams plays, the way they forced turnovers, the straight effort plays that won them games. Coming out of the pandemic year that has changed and back slid each year. The preparation isn't the same. They think they can show up and things will bounce their way. We get none of that anymore. It's whether Collaros and the receivers can make up for the overall **** ups in a given game, including their own. It's not really a sustainable way to win. So age and lack of depth? Can't go balls to the walls anymore, and for older guys balls to the walls is different than it was 5 years ago. Our key guys have aged a lot since this run began. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatty Liver Posted June 11 Report Share Posted June 11 7 minutes ago, JCon said: We just need Brian Dennehy to show up with those cocoons and we'll be fine. Which version? You don't want this one showing up... IC Khari, Stickem and BigBlueFanatic 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnold_Palmer Posted June 11 Report Share Posted June 11 8 minutes ago, 17to85 said: So age and lack of depth? Can't go balls to the walls anymore, and for older guys balls to the walls is different than it was 5 years ago. Our key guys have aged a lot since this run began. 5 years in football time might as well be 100. Look at the 2013 sea hawks, their entire core was washed up by 2018. wbbfan, JohnnyAbonny and BigBlueFanatic 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted June 11 Report Share Posted June 11 10 minutes ago, Arnold_Palmer said: 5 years in football time might as well be 100. Look at the 2013 sea hawks, their entire core was washed up by 2018. That’s just it, I really don’t understand our blatant blind spot to the reality of pro sports. It happens to EVERYBODY. Why are the Bombers pretending it hasn’t happened to them? JohnnyAbonny and wbbfan 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17to85 Posted June 11 Report Share Posted June 11 5 minutes ago, Mike said: That’s just it, I really don’t understand our blatant blind spot to the reality of pro sports. It happens to EVERYBODY. Why are the Bombers pretending it hasn’t happened to them? Someone posted a while back about how towards the end of his playing days the argos oshea was on were basically old vets who could occasionally throw out a big performance but not always. Feel like we're watching the Bombers slide into that as we speak. wbbfan and Tracker 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goalie Posted June 11 Report Share Posted June 11 (edited) 2 minutes ago, 17to85 said: Someone posted a while back about how towards the end of his playing days the argos oshea was on were basically old vets who could occasionally throw out a big performance but not always. Feel like we're watching the Bombers slide into that as we speak. Yet consensus seems to be outside of Zach, Mitchell and ford sucked the most so it gets interesting. Did the vets struggle collectively game 1 or was it just Zach and a couple newbs really. Edited June 11 by Goalie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuranBoldenRules Posted June 11 Report Share Posted June 11 34 minutes ago, 17to85 said: So age and lack of depth? Can't go balls to the walls anymore, and for older guys balls to the walls is different than it was 5 years ago. Our key guys have aged a lot since this run began. Seems like a preparation issue to me. TBURGESS, Goalie and coach17 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted June 11 Report Share Posted June 11 1 minute ago, Goalie said: Yet consensus seems to be outside of Zach, Mitchell and ford sucked the most so it gets interesting. Did the vets struggle collectively game 1 or was it just Zach and a couple newbs really. I think you’re getting lost talking about the Week 1 performance while most people here are talking about the past two years plus one game. It’s not the specific on-field performance that is worrying to me. It’s the approach we have taken to everything. WildPath, Super Duper Negatron and JCon 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goalie Posted June 11 Report Share Posted June 11 (edited) 5 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said: Seems like a preparation issue to me. Rumours are it’s not preparations A through G either. 4 minutes ago, Mike said: I think you’re getting lost talking about the Week 1 performance while most people here are talking about the past two years plus one game. It’s not the specific on-field performance that is worrying to me. It’s the approach we have taken to everything. Yeah. I’m not a fan of hanging on to the vets and I’m not a fan of their practice roster deployment. Just a bunch of special team guys there really. Why would Kyle and wade allow this? If it’s gotten as bad as you and others think, wouldn’t wade and Kyle notice it also and maybe have a chat or 2 or force osheas hand by maybe not signing a guy like BA or Jake to new deals. I mean surely they notice this also. Edited June 11 by Goalie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17to85 Posted June 11 Report Share Posted June 11 2 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said: Seems like a preparation issue to me. Could be, but if we use bighill as an example... he seems to know what to do and where to be but winds up getting there a day late and a dollar short. Jefferson can be a disruptive impact player... but can't do it every snap of every game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IC Khari Posted June 11 Report Share Posted June 11 (edited) Edited June 11 by IC Khari Noeller 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booch Posted June 11 Report Share Posted June 11 I've been alluding to this since 2022..and was heavily spouting off about it all last yr and into the offseaso. Was met with all the yeah buts...won the west..most wins...4 straight cups...failing to see we barely eeeked out the 2nd Cup...and lost 2 straight now...ones we should have won easily I also said a few times we won in spite of what some of the things Osh did..got met with more ridicule...we rode and won with some superior top line talent despite the warts that were developing...then wore a lot of them right out...all the while not developing anyone..and filling the roster with guys who were just that...1 trick poney filler...and now we are in a possible scuffling mode...big-time. Been there..done that...seen that personally and was seeing the exact same thing simmering here...hence why was so vocal...hopefully we use the first half of season to re-evaluate things and nip it in the bud now...or it's gonna get fugly rebusrankin and wbbfan 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17to85 Posted June 11 Report Share Posted June 11 So I was ok last year running it back because that was a choice and a 1 point loss in the cup fine give it a go. This year needed to be different though because it didn't work last year not going to work any better this year. Honestly would probably be best to get smacked around all of June. Might snap them out of it. But I can't ever hope for losses so go kick ass whoever wears the jersey. rebusrankin, Goalie and wbbfan 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildPath Posted June 11 Report Share Posted June 11 4 hours ago, voodoochylde said: Zach is our starter .. no doubt about it. But .... As I alluded to in the game day thread, you can't make Streveler just a gadget guy. He's an athlete and god yes, take advantage of that athleticism but he's needs to execute in passing situations as well - if for no other reason than to keep teams honest when he's on the field. They used Strev at least twice outside of QB. I found that encouraging and I hope they don't go away from that just because it didn't work well. I think that could be very difficult to prepare for and defend against. I was hoping they would have two QBs on since they signed him. I also think Strev will be used more in a QB role in the future, but it seems like the coaching staff believes that you shouldn't try new wrinkles when the offense is out of sync and that they need to play through it to find some rhythm. Judging by O'Shea's post-game comments about not properly preparing the team, I think he realized the team was set back by poor pre-season roster management. I think he rightly thought that they could find their groove if they shook off the rust, it just didn't happen. Back when we were just starting to be a winning team we used "trick" plays a lot and O'Shea insisted they don't work well unless you're in a groove already. Hopefully part of the game plan going forward is that Strev is part of the game plan and hopefully rust can't be an excuse for others anymore. I'm much more concerned about the long term issues with roster management and lack of competition than with issues from week 1 which I think were more symptoms of the bigger problem than a problem in its own right. Knowing the team had issues at the end of last year and that we host a Grey Cup next year, you'd expect some actual competition in camp this year. CodyT 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyAbonny Posted June 11 Report Share Posted June 11 3 hours ago, Mike said: Honestly, I’m not sure you can ever quantify something like this but I would have to suspect word gets around by now about Winnipeg has to be one of the worst places for a young player to come to in the CFL if they want a legitimate opportunity. And don’t give me all that “what, they don’t wanna win and be a part of an amazing locker room?” nonsense. No, they want an opportunity to compete and maximize their earning potential and playing potential. That’s not here anymore. Veterans don’t even have to participate in training camp but they’re handed spots. We have mismanaged our use of training camp two years in a row. The practice roster is wasted. I’m not saying every spot needs to be an open competition. But look at Brandon Alexander, he has been clearly falling off in performance for a few years but hasn’t been asked to take a single snap in camp since 2022 and is just handed a job. We had a ton of options to get younger in lieu of trotting out Kyrie Wilson, who was already having his workload managed in camp, but we just hand him the spot despite new players showing incredibly well. How does McManus sell that to a young American player, especially when we’re now competing with other leagues. This sounds pretty accurate. The family locker room stuff is a draw sure, but more for established vets/FAs. I’d guess the facilities/stadium/trainers/nutrition kind of thing would be more of a selling point for American players. Like you said though, the bottom line is an opportunity to further their career and/or some quality reps on tape for the NFL. If word gets around that we sit guys on the PR for years I suppose it doesn’t really matter how good the scouts are. rebusrankin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigg jay Posted June 11 Report Share Posted June 11 14 minutes ago, Booch said: I've been alluding to this since 2022..and was heavily spouting off about it all last yr and into the offseaso. Was met with all the yeah buts...won the west..most wins...4 straight cups...failing to see we barely eeeked out the 2nd Cup...and lost 2 straight now...ones we should have won easily I also said a few times we won in spite of what some of the things Osh did..got met with more ridicule...we rode and won with some superior top line talent despite the warts that were developing...then wore a lot of them right out...all the while not developing anyone..and filling the roster with guys who were just that...1 trick poney filler...and now we are in a possible scuffling mode...big-time. Been there..done that...seen that personally and was seeing the exact same thing simmering here...hence why was so vocal...hopefully we use the first half of season to re-evaluate things and nip it in the bud now...or it's gonna get fugly I'm hoping that MOS acknowledging that he over-estimated their readiness is a sign he might be open to being wrong about other things and they can correct them before it's too late. 17to85, wbbfan, Noeller and 4 others 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardCoreBlue Posted June 11 Report Share Posted June 11 32 minutes ago, bigg jay said: I'm hoping that MOS acknowledging that he over-estimated their readiness is a sign he might be open to being wrong about other things and they can correct them before it's too late. The first telling sign will be what specific adjustments he makes for this coming Thursday. bigg jay and Tracker 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebusrankin Posted June 11 Report Share Posted June 11 5 minutes ago, HardCoreBlue said: The first telling sign will be what specific adjustments he makes for this coming Thursday. Outside of Biggie starting at MLB and a new WR to replace Lawler, I don't expect much. Goalie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuranBoldenRules Posted June 11 Report Share Posted June 11 2 hours ago, 17to85 said: Could be, but if we use bighill as an example... he seems to know what to do and where to be but winds up getting there a day late and a dollar short. Jefferson can be a disruptive impact player... but can't do it every snap of every game. Yeah drop off from a couple spots. But really Jefferson has always been a nice piece that you hope can create enough havoc on the downs he shows up to not kill you on the plays when he just completely does his own thing and not his job, runs right past the play giving a huge lane for QB to take off/step up, decides he has no interest in thinking about the possibility of a run. That's who he's been since the day he set foot in the league. My issue with him is that we've made him an every down player, we've tried to make him a leader and haven't realized he's a nice complimentary player, not a one man pass rush. Fajardo carved him up last week with the over pursuit. If I'm an OT I'd rest easy the week I'm facing Jefferson, especially now when we are looking weaker across the front. A guy like Orimolade would keep me up at night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyAbonny Posted June 11 Report Share Posted June 11 2 hours ago, Booch said: I've been alluding to this since 2022..and was heavily spouting off about it all last yr and into the offseaso. Was met with all the yeah buts...won the west..most wins...4 straight cups...failing to see we barely eeeked out the 2nd Cup...and lost 2 straight now...ones we should have won easily I also said a few times we won in spite of what some of the things Osh did..got met with more ridicule...we rode and won with some superior top line talent despite the warts that were developing...then wore a lot of them right out...all the while not developing anyone..and filling the roster with guys who were just that...1 trick poney filler...and now we are in a possible scuffling mode...big-time. Been there..done that...seen that personally and was seeing the exact same thing simmering here...hence why was so vocal...hopefully we use the first half of season to re-evaluate things and nip it in the bud now...or it's gonna get fugly 03/04 Ritchie teams? BigBlueFanatic 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigg jay Posted June 11 Report Share Posted June 11 Just now, JohnnyAbonny said: 03/04 Ritchie teams? Ritchie is exactly who this being overly loyal to vets reminds me of. Loved the guy as a person and a coach but it bit him and the club in the ass. JohnnyAbonny 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Duper Negatron Posted June 11 Report Share Posted June 11 2 minutes ago, bigg jay said: Ritchie is exactly who this being overly loyal to vets reminds me of. Loved the guy as a person and a coach but it bit him and the club in the ass. Was it Dave that used to have the saying that every rookie == one loss? Noeller and JohnnyAbonny 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinnipegGordo Posted June 11 Report Share Posted June 11 53 minutes ago, rebusrankin said: Outside of Biggie starting at MLB and a new WR to replace Lawler, I don't expect much. I have a feeling that Brady wont be playing. Even if he is healthy, I can see them sitting him out as he's only practiced a couple of days all camp and season so far. Noeller, rebusrankin, TBURGESS and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyAbonny Posted June 11 Report Share Posted June 11 2 hours ago, 17to85 said: Someone posted a while back about how towards the end of his playing days the argos oshea was on were basically old vets who could occasionally throw out a big performance but not always. Feel like we're watching the Bombers slide into that as we speak. Exactly. And that vet team won a GC in 2004 so good luck getting Osh to change that mentality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigg jay Posted June 11 Report Share Posted June 11 4 minutes ago, Super Duper Negatron said: Was it Dave that used to have the saying that every rookie == one loss? Yep, that was one of his sayings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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