Blue Bombers - 2024 Regular Season - Discussion Thread

[Goalie]

Is younger just the D coordinator in name and O’Shea Is the guy micro managing who plays? Why would younger accept that then. Why would Walters or miller allow this. At what point. Playing 9 Canadians isn’t that point? 

[Booch]

44 minutes ago, Goalie said:

Why would O’Shea knowingly hand cuff the team. Why would he sign an extension if his intent is to destroy what he helped create. 
 

Arrogant? Isn’t arrogant kinda pretending this is all on O’Shea when it’s not  but but but he has say but reality he’s not the guy signing guys to new deals  I don’t GAF if he says sign him he’s a good vet, if Kyle and to a lesser extent , miller agrees then the problem is actually 3 headed  

 

blaming O’Shea for everything is stupid also when it’s apparent it’s not just him  

 

he decides the roster....so yeah...it's on him.....and if he pushed for certin vets.....I would think going forward the G.M will maybe goa different direction and not take the HC assesment as he be all end all

 

42 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

The coaches build the game day roster, the coaches decide who is on the field... how is this not a coaching issue? 

exactly this....Walter's could have said..ok...we will sign old guy X and declining talent guy Y...but if a new player outperforms...and show's seruious upside...then get out the snips....and Osh and his wise assesment went the wrong way...

25 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

He isn't doing it on purpose, he has bought into his own propaganda. 

No one is saying its 100% mos. Even the most critical on here are saying that walters and wade need to deal with this. That said, the talent was there. Walters has been pruning Mos boys club the last two off seasons. To an extent, you want the new guys to win spots from the old guys in camp. That brings a ton of value, vs cutting guys and having rookies battle rookies for the spot. We had all the talent at every position save punter to fix our issues. 

The huge majority of the problem, is mos. Because it isn't just roster problems, our coaching is poor, our team plays flat as hell, and our prep is poor. Many factors out side of the roster are hurting us, and those all fall on mos. The roster isnt calling plays that don't work for the squad we field. The roster, isnt having us kill clock before we get what we need from the drive. The roster isn't having us not run the ball in the red zone. The roster isn't why this team feel comfortable losing. The roster isn't why we can't adjust in game, or to what teams have been doing to counter us since last year. 

my take...and will ruffle feathers I am sure but I think it more of a case that Osh isn't the be all end all many thik...and that he is prone to lapses in judgemet and game management...and has a serious flaw of buying into and running with his own bias's..even if not for the better of the squad.....he did well when he had a roster flush with stars...and guys intheir prime who were foot soldiers...and secondary depth guys......and we won despite of a lot of his bad coaching decisons and roster makeup

But look at the 3..4 yrs prior to the run...and the last lil bit of late....poor record...bad choices...and no answers....relienton the past ...and really if he needs to coachhis way out...he struggles...it's pretty apparent

9 minutes ago, Goalie said:

Is younger just the D coordinator in name and O’Shea Is the guy micro managing who plays? Why would younger accept that then. Why would Walters or miller allow this. At what point. Playing 9 Canadians isn’t that point? 

in the end...it's the head coach who will decide who is on the roster...will take into consideration whathis assistants suggest, and say....but in the end it's his call.

He may also dictate as to how/what the game plan to be and the Co-ord will make it happen..as best he can....he can only work with what he has...and if the HC says I want to see player X play so many snaps...player Z as well...player Y to just be used as a bit player to spell off...who-ever...well the co-ords hands are tied

[17to85]

Oshea has always had some blinders for certain things... the problem now is that he isn't able to move on from this group that had oh so much success. Thomas should at best be a token backup, bighill we should be in full on transition mode from. Ditto Alexander. Jefferson you can keep fine but you need to recognize you need depth to help him rest and be at his best.

It's not 2019, it's not even 2021 anymore. You can't ride those old guys like you used to.

[rebusrankin]

1 hour ago, Mike said:

guys, Jake has at least 8 years left

Tom Brady is good 

Jake is married to a super model?

No real evidence but pretty sure that's how Tom got his super powers.

[Booch]

1 minute ago, 17to85 said:

Oshea has always had some blinders for certain things... the problem now is that he isn't able to move on from this group that had oh so much success. Thomas should at best be a token backup, bighill we should be in full on transition mode from. Ditto Alexander. Jefferson you can keep fine but you need to recognize you need depth to help him rest and be at his best.

It's not 2019, it's not even 2021 anymore. You can't ride those old guys like you used to.

like players...sometimes coaches, and their ways and beliefs get old in the tooth and just dont work anymore either....something to consider....Does anyone here not think that in a hypothetical scenario...That if a fresh face was HC...was provided all the same talent in camp and returning players that we had this yr, and ran a TC with jobs for the taking, that this team...Injuries and all included wouldn't be at least 2-1....likely 3-0...and have came out in game 1 totally prepared...no rust...and with a huge point to prove in Game 1?/

I certainly do

[Goalie]

So guys who are coordinators who are getting head coaching jobs basically did nothing to earn them. It’s the coach doing it all. O’Shea is calling the plays also on o and D. It’s all O’Shea. 
 

it’s obviously not. 
 

 

[wbbfan]

1 minute ago, Booch said:

he decides the roster....so yeah...it's on him.....and if he pushed for certin vets.....I would think going forward the G.M will maybe goa different direction and not take the HC assesment as he be all end all

 

exactly this....Walter's could have said..ok...we will sign old guy X and declining talent guy Y...but if a new player outperforms...and show's seruious upside...then get out the snips....and Osh and his wise assesment went the wrong way...

my take...and will ruffle feathers I am sure but I think it more of a case that Osh isn't the be all end all many thik...and that he is prone to lapses in judgemet and game management...and has a serious flaw of buying into and running with his own bias's..even if not for the better of the squad.....he did well when he had a roster flush with stars...and guys intheir prime who were foot soldiers...and secondary depth guys......and we won despite of a lot of his bad coaching decisons and roster makeup

But look at the 3..4 yrs prior to the run...and the last lil bit of late....poor record...bad choices...and no answers....relienton the past ...and really if he needs to coachhis way out...he struggles...it's pretty apparent

We might never know the nature of the power balance between wade walters and mos. Any way you cut it though, I don't think walters could've done much with mos prior to this year. He had all the leverage. That should be changing now. Time will tell if they are all in the boat together, or if mos has been rowing them down towards the rapids. 

 

100%. Falling into a generationally good team has people forgetting that roster management, amongst other things, has always been an issue. If any thing, I think Mos has regressed as a HC from the days before zach. He had a big impact early on with our teams being consistently the best punt/kick and cover unit in the league, and in the mid season overhaul of halls D as well. We went from a team that couldnt win, to a team that won with some cloak n dagger stuff, to a team where the D expected to carry us to wins and where ever time the ball was kicked we gained considerable field position. 

 People forget that in the matt nichols era, we had the best 3 job kicker in league history. Medlock was years ahead of the curve in punting, and for most of his career the most accurate kicker in league history. 50 yard fg into the wind? automatic. Need 7 fgs to win? No problem. Our D, shattered records for forced turn overs for 3 ish years. We scored with insane regularity on D, and our O played on half a field for the most part. That team was built to grind down the clock on O, with teams yielding insane amounts of yardage, while the D won the game. 

Then all of a sudden you add a QB who can hit tight windows down field and loved to take deep shots, which aided in developing guys like lawler and schoen, and a D that still expected to have to win the game them self. The biggest battle we saw for a couple years in bomber games wasn't our team vs another, it was our O vs our D to see who would carry the day. But the D quickly took a back seat to the high scoring offence, and then the O now expected to carry the load suffered from loses and age. 

 

Mos was atleast aggressive and coached to win prior to the GCs, even if plop and hall were passive in play styles. Mos doesn't produce a good roster and make the most of his assets, and hasn't in a single game in ages. He doesn't have his team chomping at the bit and ready to go at kick off. The culture has become one that is content even in defeat. 

[Booch]

2 minutes ago, Goalie said:

So guys who are coordinators who are getting head coaching jobs basically did nothing to earn them. It’s the coach doing it all. O’Shea is calling the plays also on o and D. It’s all O’Shea. 
 

it’s obviously not. 
 

 

who said that?

[bb1]

6 minutes ago, Booch said:

he decides the roster....so yeah...it's on him.....and if he pushed for certin vets.....I would think going forward the G.M will maybe goa different direction and not take the HC assesment as he be all end all

 

exactly this....Walter's could have said..ok...we will sign old guy X and declining talent guy Y...but if a new player outperforms...and show's seruious upside...then get out the snips....and Osh and his wise assesment went the wrong way...

my take...and will ruffle feathers I am sure but I think it more of a case that Osh isn't the be all end all many thik...and that he is prone to lapses in judgemet and game management...and has a serious flaw of buying into and running with his own bias's..even if not for the better of the squad.....he did well when he had a roster flush with stars...and guys intheir prime who were foot soldiers...and secondary depth guys......and we won despite of a lot of his bad coaching decisons and roster makeup

But look at the 3..4 yrs prior to the run...and the last lil bit of late....poor record...bad choices...and no answers....relienton the past ...and really if he needs to coachhis way out...he struggles...it's pretty apparent

in the end...it's the head coach who will decide who is on the roster...will take into consideration whathis assistants suggest, and say....but in the end it's his call.

He may also dictate as to how/what the game plan to be and the Co-ord will make it happen..as best he can....he can only work with what he has...and if the HC says I want to see player X play so many snaps...player Z as well...player Y to just be used as a bit player to spell off...who-ever...well the co-ords hands are tied

Yep he might be too loyal but that is the reason guys will go through a wall for him. MOS was here before we had great players and stuck with HIS plan and we got 2 Grey Cups. Does he have flaws? Of course who doesn't? The facts are MOS has won more playoff games and Grey Cups than any Winnipeg coach COMBINED to kindly Cal.  34 years of coaches....yea it's easy to find great coaches.🙄🙄

[wbbfan]

Just now, Goalie said:

So guys who are coordinators who are getting head coaching jobs basically did nothing to earn them. It’s the coach doing it all. O’Shea is calling the plays also on o and D. It’s all O’Shea. 
 

it’s obviously not. 
 

 

It's the CFL, that does happen. Jason maas didn't earn a HC job after being fired as an OC, but he got it any way. And he's made the most out of it. 

Are you familiar at all with how plays are called? The cos don't just dictate what the team is doing while the HC watches. The large portion of plays in the first half are practiced and prepped the week leading up to the game. The install and bases are formed after position and group meetings in a meeting with the Cos and Coaches. The HC largely operates the subs, and will call to go for it, run, pass etc. Different Hcs have different levels of input in different aspects. The Cos though, work for the HC. The HC has final say in all things game day. 

[Fatty Liver]

22 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

BLM's top target is Shemar Bridges.  CFL rookie.

BC has got some big plays and first down catches from 3 CFL rookies.  One of whom they've cut with guys coming back off injured list.

Calgary looks to have a solid SB in Echols.

Als have receivers coming out the wazoo.

 

We have a guy out there who yes went to Florida State, but looks like he's going to trip on his **** every snap.

 

Berryhill is going to be fantastic in BC, he'll likely be their ROTY candidate.  Wilson needs a QB that can throw him the ball like Trevor Harris or V.A., Zach relies on a couple of favourites and ignores the rest, ask BOLO or Agudosi, Might be untenable now that he's down to 2 familiar receivers.

[Booch]

2 minutes ago, bb1 said:

Yep he might be too loyal but that is the reason guys will go through a wall for him. MOS was here before we had great players and stuck with HIS plan and we got 2 Grey Cups. Does he have flaws? Of course who doesn't? The facts are MOS has won more playoff games and Grey Cups than any Winnipeg coach COMBINED to kindly Cal.  34 years of coaches....yea it's easy to find great coaches.🙄🙄

don't look like too much wall busting going on now from a lot of the roster

MOS did well also when some great talent was afforded to him....now it's aged out...and he has a penchant for using guys who aren't the best options....and the difference is noticeable...all great coaches hit a wall...and become not so great...and victims of the knife...are we seeing the early stages of that now...I think it's well past early and some things need to be nipped in the bud fast...not saying he needs to be fired immediately....but continuation down the same path the discussion has to be had...or powers that be step in and say...look...here's how things are gonna go....if you cant manage that and make it happen...well....thanjks for your service....or if there is resistance to it...well FIFO your way out of here

4 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

It's the CFL, that does happen. Jason maas didn't earn a HC job after being fired as an OC, but he got it any way. And he's made the most out of it. 

Are you familiar at all with how plays are called? The cos don't just dictate what the team is doing while the HC watches. The large portion of plays in the first half are practiced and prepped the week leading up to the game. The install and bases are formed after position and group meetings in a meeting with the Cos and Coaches. The HC largely operates the subs, and will call to go for it, run, pass etc. Different Hcs have different levels of input in different aspects. The Cos though, work for the HC. The HC has final say in all things game day. 

and from experience...I know a lot of u hate reading that....but a HC will formulate what he wants, and what the games phylosphy is going to be...and the Co-ord has to work within it...and here it's appaering working with restraints

 

4 minutes ago, Fatty Liver said:

Berryhill is going to be fantastic in BC, he'll likely be their ROTY candidate.  Wilson needs a QB that can throw him the ball like Trevor Harris or V.A., Zach relies on a couple of favourites and ignores the rest, ask BOLO or Agudosi, Might be untenable now that he's down to 2 familiar receivers.

I was gonna mention that on the no rookies stepping up....ZC has a tendancy to ignore guys and just force it to his top guys....to a fault to be honest...

[bb1]

9 minutes ago, Fatty Liver said:

Berryhill is going to be fantastic in BC, he'll likely be their ROTY candidate.  Wilson needs a QB that can throw him the ball like Trevor Harris or V.A., Zach relies on a couple of favourites and ignores the rest, ask BOLO or Agudosi, Might be untenable now that he's down to 2 familiar receivers.

Yea look at Schoen he was well established before Zach came along...🙄

[Mike]

59 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

There's a huge issue with next man up/roles being defined by seniority for sure. 

There's a bigger issue with evaluation.  Hard to tell if if it's personnel, coaching or both.  It's not like our cuts are going onto other teams or even other leagues and lighting it up.  The receiver competition this season was demoralizing.  Like we have 20 guys in camp and the best you break camp with are Wilson and Mitchell?  Then you see guys on BC, Hamilton, Montreal, Calgary tearing it up.

There's also the issue of evaluating our own guys.  Like how did they watch Alexander last year and think that's a guy to bring back as opposed to a rookie DB using that little bit of extra money on say Grant instead of a rookie returner?  Grant is definitely losing a step but it's also a step down from being arguably the greatest CFL returner of all time, still a good player and still far better, more reliable than anyone else we've seen in the role the past two seasons.

Bighill has basically been trash for two full seasons.  Could use that money to chase after CFL free agents in their prime while we are a prime, winning destination. 

You’ve said it a million times, the way they used camp reps and kept a bazillion guys until the end served no purpose whatsoever. Such a detriment.

59 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

There's a huge issue with next man up/roles being defined by seniority for sure. 

There's a bigger issue with evaluation.  Hard to tell if if it's personnel, coaching or both.  It's not like our cuts are going onto other teams or even other leagues and lighting it up.  The receiver competition this season was demoralizing.  Like we have 20 guys in camp and the best you break camp with are Wilson and Mitchell?  Then you see guys on BC, Hamilton, Montreal, Calgary tearing it up.

There's also the issue of evaluating our own guys.  Like how did they watch Alexander last year and think that's a guy to bring back as opposed to a rookie DB using that little bit of extra money on say Grant instead of a rookie returner?  Grant is definitely losing a step but it's also a step down from being arguably the greatest CFL returner of all time, still a good player and still far better, more reliable than anyone else we've seen in the role the past two seasons.

Bighill has basically been trash for two full seasons.  Could use that money to chase after CFL free agents in their prime while we are a prime, winning destination. 

You’ve said it a million times, the way they used camp reps and kept a bazillion guys until the end served no purpose whatsoever. Such a detriment.

[wbbfan]

8 minutes ago, Fatty Liver said:

Berryhill is going to be fantastic in BC, he'll likely be their ROTY candidate.  Wilson needs a QB that can throw him the ball like Trevor Harris or V.A., Zach relies on a couple of favourites and ignores the rest, ask BOLO or Agudosi, Might be untenable now that he's down to 2 familiar receivers.

That isn't the case with Zach. Last year he had 6 guys between 38-71 catchest. The difference in catches, despite lawlers missed games, among the top 3 was just 21 catches. The difference in the bottom 3 was 9 catches. We had a 4 way tie for 2nd place in receiving Tds with 6. Top 3 guys between 900 and 1200 yards, bottom 3 between 668 and 482. That is not relying on one or two guys to do all the work.  Even the guys below the top 6 all had big games, agudosi, bolo, gmc. 

[GCn20]

3 minutes ago, Mike said:

You’ve said it a million times, the way they used camp reps and kept a bazillion guys until the end served no purpose whatsoever. Such a detriment.

You’ve said it a million times, the way they used camp reps and kept a bazillion guys until the end served no purpose whatsoever. Such a detriment.

I defended the way the Bombers TC. However, hindsight has me clearly convinced that I was wrong and it was indeed a fiasco. No other explanation for the complete lack of cohesiveness we have seen thus far. Everything is out of sync, and only a portion of that falls to roster changes.

[WinnipegGordo]

Tui Eli isnt practicing 

[WinnipegGordo]

Team has a fullback #35, not sure who he is. 

Lawler is running in the endzone, hopefully its a sign he's closer to coming back. 

[WinnipegGordo]

Johnson and Murphy with the starting unit.

Ford, Holm, Bridges, Bonds, Alexander , Biggie, Wilson, Kramdi, Thomas, Willy, Hubert and Adams starting D.

[Fatty Liver]

21 minutes ago, WinnipegGordo said:

Team has a fullback #35, not sure who he is. 

Lawler is running in the endzone, hopefully its a sign he's closer to coming back. 

Could be Feltmate, listed as #36, may have changed numbers.

[WinnipegGordo]

Augustine is still getting plenty of 1st team reps. 

[Mike]

24 minutes ago, WinnipegGordo said:

Team has a fullback #35, not sure who he is. 

Lawler is running in the endzone, hopefully it’s a sign he's closer to coming back. 

I doubt it has anything to do with his availability, he broke his arm. At least he’s keeping in shape.

[WinnipegGordo]

Griffin has taken over Karamoko's spot for when they go with a 3 man front.

[Colin Unger]

I remember a few years back when Calgary was still a dominant team. They had a rash of vetern receivers getting hurt but seamingly every receiver they added to the roster from their practice roster could instantly perform. Michel, Begalton, Brescasin. And guys that were role players like DaVaris Daniels did well in expanded roles. This is what you expect for a model franchise.

[Bigblue204]

Just now, Colin Unger said:

I remember a few years back when Calgary was still a dominant team. They had a rash of vetern receivers getting hurt but seamingly every receiver they added to the roster from their practice roster could instantly perform. Michel, Begalton, Brescasin. And guys that were role players like DaVaris Daniels did well in expanded roles. This is what you expect for a model franchise.

I mean....that's basically how Lawler started and Schoen as well. 2021 was all Ellingson early on. Schoen only got going after Ellingson got hurt.