Blue Bombers - 2024 Regular Season - Discussion Thread

[WinnipegGordo]

1 hour ago, Pete Catan's Ghost said:

Against my own better advice I briefly tuned into the coach’s show last night, and without beating a dead horse, it is even more abysmal than ever. Absolutely zero substance. 

Except now, Osh and Taylor have developed some kind of weird power imbalance thing where the coach shoots Derek with passive aggressive darts and DT responds with meek self deprecation. 

Have other markets found a listenable alternative to the issue of the reluctant coach? Maybe, throw out Kyle or Wade once in a while for a slightly more meaningful show? 

I listen to the show and often tweet and text into the show (that was me asking about the possibility of bringing Chris Smith back when healthy). 

Since the team is winning I have come to accept that O'Shea isnt forthcoming on alot of topics. It's just part of the package.

I do find it tough at times to think of questions though, when O'Shea doesnt talk about;

Injuries, schemes, who is going to play, who is playing what position etc

He does like to talk about CFL rules, the nuances of the game, and its history.....

[wbbfan]

1 hour ago, Bigblue204 said:

This is a real good idea 

I think it'd be fantastic, could have mos talk more about things going on league wide, and stuff like proposed rule changes etc. I think he'd be a lot more interesting and affable in that range of topics. 

1 hour ago, Fatty Liver said:

Watched the highlights of the Lions/Elk preseason game, Stanback running with good speed and power so it looks like he's well prepared for the season, whether they make use of him or not is another matter.

Looks like BC also found an exciting returner/receiver in Berryhill.

The big thing for him is will they stick to running it, can they run against starting Ds, and how quick/hard is he hitting the hole. Also, can he stay healthy. I wouldn't want to be betting on him, but really it isn't a big risk for them. 

[WildPath]

There was a time where only the head coach was allowed to talk to the media. I don't remember when or who the head coach was, but I have a vague memory that there was some incident that caused the policy to be created. Wish I could remember more.

[wbbfan]

36 minutes ago, WildPath said:

There was a time where only the head coach was allowed to talk to the media. I don't remember when or who the head coach was, but I have a vague memory that there was some incident that caused the policy to be created. Wish I could remember more.

I know it is a long standing un written rule at most every level of football that media doesn't talk to an ast unless its cleared by the HC, and virtually always just a media scrum thing. 

[Noeller]

Derek is doing the absolute best he can with the coach's show. MOS just isn't very forthcoming so it's being able to work within his parameters. And honestly, for 75% of people, it's more than enough. And it's still insanely popular, which is why it's an easy sell for the Corus marketing team and is always loaded with spots. 

[SpeedFlex27]

4 hours ago, Bigblue204 said:

They already won at home. They don't get to do it again!!!! Lol

They've won at home twice, I believe.

[wbbfan]

1 minute ago, Noeller said:

Derek is doing the absolute best he can with the coach's show. MOS just isn't very forthcoming so it's being able to work within his parameters. And honestly, for 75% of people, it's more than enough. And it's still insanely popular, which is why it's an easy sell for the Corus marketing team and is always loaded with spots. 

And by no means does every thing have to cater to the hard core fan. Even the unwashed masses on the FB groups deserve content aimed at them. I think the clarity most of us want with injuries/roster is pretty basic. But we aren't going to see it with Mos. 

 I wonder how the coaches show is when the team isn't as good in the future. I'm glad the team and cjob are making that money and getting that support now. I hope they milk it as long as they can. 

1 minute ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

They've won at home twice, I believe.

94 and 11 iirc

[TBURGESS]

4 hours ago, Mike said:

I don’t think anyone’s complaining necessarily I think we’re just running out of things to talk about.

let’s go back to talking about how negative TBURGESS is all the time for four pages of this thread 

I've been that way since my first post, likely before. Why complain about it now?

[johnzo]

4 hours ago, Jpan85 said:

The funny thing is O'Shea, in the couple of times I have talked to him, is very engaging and easy to talk to.

sometimes in the oughts he had a Q&A column on cfl.ca and I wrote in asking how the defensive signals got from the bench to the defense.  In response he wrote me a little book on how the D does its job. I was super impressed that he took the time to go deep with some fan on the Internet.

edit: and to follow onto the question of how to make the coach's show better, I would love more inside baseball about how the game actually works.

as someone who never played the game above the city-league flag football level, I find pro football is an astonishingly fast cycle of planning, reacting, and executing and the mechanics of that are fascinating to me.  like, I would love to hear our center talk about how he calls the signals at the line ... the fact that the center can take the play call, eye the D, and then call out useful blocking assignments in one or two seconds in a potentially very loud stadium ... that seems like straight-up sorcery to me.  or I would love to hear our QB give an eye view talk about blitz recognition, or about how he makes his RPO decisions.

Edited June 4 by johnzo

[johnzo]

of course, a call-in show is a terrible place to do education what with all the wastoids calling in to say "hey why don't you try to score more touchdowns?"

[WildPath]

2 hours ago, wbbfan said:

I know it is a long standing un written rule at most every level of football that media doesn't talk to an ast unless its cleared by the HC, and virtually always just a media scrum thing. 

I'm fairly certain there was a time where this was very strictly imposed in Bomberland. I'm thinking when Kelly was going into his downward spiral of hatred with the media, but I could be wrong.

48 minutes ago, johnzo said:

sometimes in the oughts he had a Q&A column on cfl.ca and I wrote in asking how the defensive signals got from the bench to the defense.  In response he wrote me a little book on how the D does its job. I was super impressed that he took the time to go deep with some fan on the Internet.

edit: and to follow onto the question of how to make the coach's show better, I would love more inside baseball about how the game actually works.

as someone who never played the game above the city-league flag football level, I find pro football is an astonishingly fast cycle of planning, reacting, and executing and the mechanics of that are fascinating to me.  like, I would love to hear our center talk about how he calls the signals at the line ... the fact that the center can take the play call, eye the D, and then call out useful blocking assignments in one or two seconds in a potentially very loud stadium ... that seems like straight-up sorcery to me.  or I would love to hear our QB give an eye view talk about blitz recognition, or about how he makes his RPO decisions.

That's why I'd listen to the coaches show before, every once in a while there would be a nugget that I'd learn something from and give me greater insight to the game. I still thirst for this and this forum is where I get the most of it.

I was recommended this book - Take Your Eye Off the Ball 2.0: How to Watch Football by Knowing Where to Look - Pat Kirwan, David Seigerman - Google Books - I don't know from where, possibly here. Haven't read it yet, as I was hoping to find a source more dedicated to Canadian football, but this may have to do.

[johnzo]

1 minute ago, WildPath said:

That's why I'd listen to the coaches show before, every once in a while there would be a nugget that I'd learn something from and give me greater insight to the game. I still thirst for this and this forum is where I get the most of it.

hell yeah, during preseason A there was a comment on Lofton having a tell that was tipping the play and it was fascinating to rewatch the drive in question with eyes on Lofton's stance. seemed very surprising that a guy could get to the pro ranks with that gap in his game.

[wbbfan]

39 minutes ago, johnzo said:

sometimes in the oughts he had a Q&A column on cfl.ca and I wrote in asking how the defensive signals got from the bench to the defense.  In response he wrote me a little book on how the D does its job. I was super impressed that he took the time to go deep with some fan on the Internet.

edit: and to follow onto the question of how to make the coach's show better, I would love more inside baseball about how the game actually works.

as someone who never played the game above the city-league flag football level, I find pro football is an astonishingly fast cycle of planning, reacting, and executing and the mechanics of that are fascinating to me.  like, I would love to hear our center talk about how he calls the signals at the line ... the fact that the center can take the play call, eye the D, and then call out useful blocking assignments in one or two seconds in a potentially very loud stadium ... that seems like straight-up sorcery to me.  or I would love to hear our QB give an eye view talk about blitz recognition, or about how he makes his RPO decisions.

agree with all that. When we’ve got glimpses of programming like that say from tsn a couple times in pre game shows it’s been fantastic and well received imo. 

Blitz recognition is like a counting cards movie. It starts with a visual count, ideally not subvocalizing or having to go by ones or twos. You see how many are deep how many are on the line and have to know what that leaves. While also knowing the same splits for the boundary and field sides. Almost subconscious, or autonomic levels of math. 
Then when the ball hits your hands you redo the whole thing with again, while nearly autonomously differentiating the pre snap read from the post snap read. You seldom have symmetrical distribution of blockers(or down field targets) so you again have the split left or right. 
 You’ll have some pre snap cues on top of that. Like if the D shows an over load on the blind side you’ll have to make that among your first pattern checks to see if you have even less time. 
 

Seeing high level guys break it down even when watching film where the skill development starts, is like magic. Or genius. Watching qbs break down film really pushes home how demanding the position is on you mentally. 
often times the difference between genius cerebral field general and guys considered too dim for the position is just the speed of their recognition and decision making skills. 
 

That doesn’t even factor in coverage reads, individual players you have to account for, man/zone/match, specific alignments and the fact that play action has its own separate timing for reads. You might freeze a guy who is dropping or spying or even supposed rush. The old saying is throw where the pressure came from, but with modern D especially up here it’s very likely that the opening could be a hook curl flat zone instead of where the pressure came from. 
 So your blitz read and hot option can change depending on your coverage read. The D might be playing a cover 3 split zone with a cover 2 on the other side. Or they might be playing straight cover 3. Or they might be zone blitzing from the middle while dropping into a robber to try and lure you into a turn over. They might even delay dropping from a blitz taking one or two steps into the rush before reading the qb and dropping.

Thats why the convention when facing young green qbs is to send mixed pressure packages. Make the active read as difficult as possible vs letting them sit back and make plays. 
 

[JuranBoldenRules]

Sounds to me like people are aching more for actual football analysis from media here rather than narrative analysis.  It's a problem with all sports coverage in this town going on a couple decades.

Nothing stopping CJOB from having that show, or putting together a podcast.  They have a decent podcast with Mackling and Doug Brown.  Could put that on the air.

You can really expect a coach to go on air and breakdown his own team or the next opponent etc.

Edited June 4 by JuranBoldenRules

[wbbfan]

2 minutes ago, johnzo said:

hell yeah, during preseason A there was a comment on Lofton having a tell that was tipping the play and it was fascinating to rewatch the drive in question with eyes on Lofton's stance. seemed very surprising that a guy could get to the pro ranks with that gap in his game.

IMO, lofton is a natural guard with the tools to play tackle, also imp guards are a rarity in the cfl. He’s green at it. Tc also makes guys soft with low contact imo. It’s not the competitive literal fight it used to be. (The change isn’t bad, but I think tc and pre season need adjustments to get the same job done with less risk.) 

Soo much of football is like a chess match. Except you’re playing your own, plus a positional group game and a unit game for your side of the ball. All that while size and athleticism are the highest priority. Some guys succeed based on their competitive intelligence. Some guys get covered for. 
 

Much of being a co ordinator in game is micro managing those small chess games and master minding the larger game. It’s one of the most interesting areas of football and sports for me. 

5 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

Sounds to me like people are aching more for actual football analysis from media here rather than narrative analysis.  It's a problem with all sports coverage in this town going on a couple decades.

Nothing stopping CJOB from having that show, or putting together a podcast.  They have a decent podcast with Mackling and Doug Brown.  Could put that on the air.

You can really expect a coach to go on air and breakdown his own team or the next opponent etc.

True and that’d be awesome. No doubt you could dig up some other ex players to join in and maybe have an ex coach call in. 

[Booch]

I dont think any commentator has actually educated a viewing fan in ages on TSN...Dunnigan actually when doing color will say things that will make the average fan go hmmm...interesting....even little snippets would be fine saying and showing how when a team sends a certain guy into motion....that the QB as well as the secondary recievig targets will recognize who moves with that guy tipping off coverage , and then where to attack, or modify their route/read.., or when guys in waggle/motion forward  jam the breaks on...and reset....looking like they are out of sync...even a few commentators have said..."oh....Bombers...or whomever almost went off side there"....when in fact its designed to again get defense to undisguise what they are doing...

so many little things that are not even talked about, lf explained would really give a viewer, and fan a better understanding of whats going on

Edited June 4 by Booch

[wbbfan]

4 minutes ago, Booch said:

I dont think any commentator has actually educated a viewing fan in ages on TSN...Dunnigan actually when doing color will say things that will make the average fan go hmmm...interesting....even little snippets would be fine saying and showing how when a team sends a certain guy into motion....that the QB as well as the secondary recievig targets will recognize who moves with that guy tipping off coverage , and then where to attack, or modify their route/read.., or when guys in waggle/motion forward  jam the breaks on...and reset....looking like they are out of sync...even a few commentators have said..."oh....Bombers...or whomever almost went off side there"....when in fact its designed to again get defense to undisguise what they are doing...

so many little things that are not even talked about, lf explained would really give a viewer, and fan a better understanding of whats going on

Last year before a Friday night back to back Matty and lapo did a good break down of some game film based on what the offense would look to do and what the D would do to try and counter it. Was a great bit but really rarely happens. The pre game is usually rushed and mindless babble from the panel.

 

Marty is exciting/excited in the booth. Which I prefer to some of the guys we see. But he doesn’t have much interesting to say in those cases. Even on the panel his best is the start where he’s prepped what he will say. Quick Matt isn’t the best Matt. 

[Booch]

they should do more segments like that

[wbbfan]

28 minutes ago, WildPath said:

I'm fairly certain there was a time where this was very strictly imposed in Bomberland. I'm thinking when Kelly was going into his downward spiral of hatred with the media, but I could be wrong.

That's why I'd listen to the coaches show before, every once in a while there would be a nugget that I'd learn something from and give me greater insight to the game. I still thirst for this and this forum is where I get the most of it.

I was recommended this book - Take Your Eye Off the Ball 2.0: How to Watch Football by Knowing Where to Look - Pat Kirwan, David Seigerman - Google Books - I don't know from where, possibly here. Haven't read it yet, as I was hoping to find a source more dedicated to Canadian football, but this may have to do.

That’s a great book, the other belichecks book on scouting is really good for that too. 

Just now, Booch said:

they should do more segments like that

At the least pre game half time and post game of the feature game of the week should have it. 

[WildPath]

It seems like the marketing is always trying to push the non-fan into a social/casual fan. There's really very little attention paid to converting a casual fan to a dedicated fan by the league, team or national/local broadcasters. I assume there a lot more financial motivation to gaining casual fans, but it seems to leave a lot of people left wanting more depth. TSN simply chooses a storyline and tries to constantly (annoyingly) highlight it throughout the game, even when the flow of the game doesn't fit their chosen narrative. I assume some of that is just trying to retain the attention of the casual fan and force a storyline rather than letting the game tell a more dynamic story.

I wouldn't expect a current coach to sit down and discuss anything from the current season. Having a retired player/coach do something more in depth, especially with video would be great. Could be produced by teams, league or even PA. They could even just provide general insights and use clips from current/previous seasons to give examples.

My ultimate dream would be an expansion of something like CFL Plus where old games can be streamed and some original content could be produced. Surely there would be some fans willing to pay for streaming access to older games or even just to replay earlier games from the season. I'd think that would be a decent avenue for hooking casual fans into getting more in depth and giving serious fans some extra incentive to shell out some extra money.

[GCn20]

Warning before reading:

The following opinion may not be a popular one here.

When it comes to best media segments and analysis that I've seen in recent memory, I have 2 give Lapo's coach's playbook as something I both thoroughly enjoyed and thought he broke down extremely well so even the average fan could understand.

There I brought his name up, I am prepared for the hate on to begin.

[wbbfan]

5 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Warning before reading:

The following opinion may not be a popular one here.

When it comes to best media segments and analysis that I've seen in recent memory, I have 2 give Lapo's coach's playbook as something I both thoroughly enjoyed and thought he broke down extremely well so even the average fan could understand.

There I brought his name up, I am prepared for the hate on to begin.

You’re right. Plop was limited as an oc, but is excellent on tv. I’d love to see him talk cfl offence each week in a show with blm. 

[Noeller]

No one has ever said anything negative about Lapo on TV. It's Lapo the Coach that people rightfully dislike.

[Booch]

19 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Warning before reading:

The following opinion may not be a popular one here.

When it comes to best media segments and analysis that I've seen in recent memory, I have 2 give Lapo's coach's playbook as something I both thoroughly enjoyed and thought he broke down extremely well so even the average fan could understand.

There I brought his name up, I am prepared for the hate on to begin.

I agree...they should give him a segment every telecast...I'd even go as far as a weekly or monthly show with content like that

[johnzo]

33 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Warning before reading:

The following opinion may not be a popular one here.

When it comes to best media segments and analysis that I've seen in recent memory, I have 2 give Lapo's coach's playbook as something I both thoroughly enjoyed and thought he broke down extremely well so even the average fan could understand.

There I brought his name up, I am prepared for the hate on to begin.

I have never seen anything but praise for Lapo's tv work on this site, even from the hardest lapo detractors.  Dude has a gift for explaining the game that's so obvious that even mbb can't fight about it.

Edited June 5 by johnzo