CFL - 2024 Regular Season - Discussion Thread

[Goalie]

10 minutes ago, rebusrankin said:

The NFL also didn't like to start non caucasian QBs either back then. Guy like Russell Wilson would have been in the CFL in the 90s.

Kyler Murray is cfl tailor made for the 90s also. 

Is BC vs Toronto in BC better for the league than Winnipeg vs Montreal would be?  I’m thinking yes it would be. Kinda the 2 big premier Canadian Cities right. Hope reffing doesn’t play a role in the playoffs 

Edited October 23 by Goalie

[wbbfan]

42 minutes ago, Goalie said:

Kyler Murray is cfl tailor made for the 90s also. 

Is BC vs Toronto in BC better for the league than Winnipeg vs Montreal would be?  I’m thinking yes it would be. Kinda the 2 big premier Canadian Cities right. Hope reffing doesn’t play a role in the playoffs 

Toronto any thing isn’t strong for the cfl. Toronto bc would not be a good tv draw. 
 I think Montreal, plus one of bc ssk and Winnipeg all make for strong support, draw and views. 
 For the best game I think it comes down to wpg or bc vs Mtl. With the edge to us. Fact is, many around the country cheer for us to lose. We will bring in hate viewers. 

[rebusrankin]

1 hour ago, Goalie said:

Kyler Murray is cfl tailor made for the 90s also. 

Is BC vs Toronto in BC better for the league than Winnipeg vs Montreal would be?  I’m thinking yes it would be. Kinda the 2 big premier Canadian Cities right. Hope reffing doesn’t play a role in the playoffs 

Won't help either market sell tickets. Lousy tv draw.

[Brandon]

2 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

The level of play is greater than the Flutie era in Toronto??? Please explain that one. I'd say 95% of the players in that era could play now especially the qbs. 

Then I would say you are an old man living in the past and being unrealistic.   95% of the players and all of the qbs could play?  So Bomber qbs like  Sammy Garza and Tom Porras could play in modern day CFL?  

The level of athlete,  the significantly advanced training ,  the coaching,  the analytics,  the amount of people playing.... everything factors in why today's game is so far ahead of the game from 30 years ago.      I'll say it again... the Matt Dunnigan 700+ yards team vs our current team would get absolutely **** kicked.    It doesn't mean that those guys in the past were terrible players or jobbers.. it just means that in todays game it so much more difficult to put up the gaudy numbers so when a guy does have  a 20 - 5 record and a higher QB rating then Doug Flutie.  This is a very impressive feat and very hard for someone to do.   

I guess you forgot about Mike Kelly being our head coach and running and offense that was "popular" 10 years prior to it.  Look at how badly it worked and how badly outcoached he was.  Modern football is so far ahead of old timey football that it's not even really fair to compare because of how basic it was.  Flutie played at a time where the shovel pass was so modern and unstoppable which is hilarious when you go back and watch.  Dunigan and others simply tossed long bombs and since the defenses were so basic it was basically a  1 on 1 battle between receiver and defender each time.  A modern defense would eat all of that up massively.   The players move significantly faster and have so much better techniques.  

I once again will bring up 80's NHL.  The reason why you don't have a player getting 200 points or a dozen guys getting 50+ goals is because the level of talent these days in the NHL is so far ahead that the gap between the elite players and the weakest players is so much smaller then how it was back in the 80's.  It is so hard to be dominant in almost any sport these days.  The same applies with the CFL,  the talent level in our league right now is really really high.  So high that people keep thinking that the league can't find "star QB's" when in fact the issue is that the other players on the field are just so much better then the old days. 

 

[Mark H.]

@Brandon Some CFL QBs from 90s had significant careers in the NFL  Flutie, Garcia, etc. Which of the current CFL QBs do you think are going to do that? 

[bb1]

I don't blame younger viewers for not appreciating Flutie's incredible talent. It's like watching vintage Gretzky. You had to be there to appreciate their vision and innate six sense. I will always remember Flutie escaping at the last minute and somehow finding an open player or killing us with a Qb sneak. Without a doubt the best Qb to play in the CFL. If he would of been taller we never would of seen him in the CFL.

[Noeller]

9 minutes ago, bb1 said:

I don't blame younger viewers for not appreciating Flutie's incredible talent. It's like watching vintage Gretzky. You had to be there to appreciate their vision and innate six sense. I will always remember Flutie escaping at the last minute and somehow finding an open player or killing us with a Qb sneak. Without a doubt the best Qb to play in the CFL. If he would of been taller we never would of seen him in the CFL.

Video game cheat codes....

[17to85]

1 hour ago, Brandon said:

I once again will bring up 80's NHL.  The reason why you don't have a player getting 200 points or a dozen guys getting 50+ goals is because the level of talent these days in the NHL is so far ahead that the gap between the elite players and the weakest players is so much smaller then how it was back in the 80's.  It is so hard to be dominant in almost any sport these days.  The same applies with the CFL,  the talent level in our league right now is really really high.  So high that people keep thinking that the league can't find "star QB's" when in fact the issue is that the other players on the field are just so much better then the old days. 

Nonsense, the reason you don't see guys getting 200 points is because Wayne Gretzky doesn't play hockey anymore, and neither does Mario Lemieux. Seriously, Look at what McDavid did a couple years ago... other than the aforementioned guys that's pretty much right up there with those guys in the 80s who only put up numbers cause everyone else was ****...

[Brandon]

2 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Nonsense, the reason you don't see guys getting 200 points is because Wayne Gretzky doesn't play hockey anymore, and neither does Mario Lemieux. Seriously, Look at what McDavid did a couple years ago... other than the aforementioned guys that's pretty much right up there with those guys in the 80s who only put up numbers cause everyone else was ****...

You really think that if we could create a time machine and teleport 1980's Gretzky to play today in the NHL 2024 that he would score 200 points?  Are you out of your mind? 

Before you embarrass yourself any further... go watch some 1980's hockey.   Watch how unstructured it was and how hilariously bad the goalies were back in the day.   They were like slipping on banana peels and starfishing around and flailing out of place.   

If we could play magical time teleportation,  the current 2024 Oilers would not lose a game and McDavid would have 300+ points if they were teleported back to 1984.   The 1984 Oilers being time warped to 2024 NHL would be the last place team and would probably set the record for worst record ever.   The skating alone would be insanely night and day different.   

It doesn't mean Gretzky sucked or anything,  he just dominated during a different era.    Your comment is as silly as saying if Babe Ruth were to be playing with the Yankees today that he would belt 50 homers and pitch 20 complete games with a miniscule ERA.   

[Brandon]

1 hour ago, Mark H. said:

@Brandon Some CFL QBs from 90s had significant careers in the NFL  Flutie, Garcia, etc. Which of the current CFL QBs do you think are going to do that? 

Name 5 other CFL qbs from the 90's that had significant careers in the NFL?   

If we were able to time warp current QB's with their current knowledge and athletic abilities and training back to the mid 90's then yes I think a large amount of them would of excelled in the CFL back then.    Some may have even excelled in the NFL,   heck Strelever ,  Rourke,  MBT,  all had time in the NFL and all three of them are current CFL back ups.  

I don't think Doug Flutie from 1996 tossing shovel passes would do well at all in the current CFL.   Prime Flutie wouldn't get a sniff in the current NFL also. 

Different eras,  Flutie played in a time where the CFL had a far lower level of talent/athletes.   Current CFL is light years ahead in quality of talent and athletes so it is so much harder these days to put up big numbers on a consistent basis. 

 

 

[Booch]

Players from the 90's era...for most part could play now....some of the specialists and offensive talent may struggle....tho depending on what type of game they play too would be key

Some of the 90's guys were beats, and many were nicely PED'd up too...I know this as fact as I was there in 90's

You take a team with a dedicated FB and RB set....some maulers on the oline and one of that eras's starting QB's....Todays defence in a lot of regards would need to seriously adjust...and they may not have the beef to o so....

Trying to rate era's is a hard thing...too many different things in play...skilled position guys now are definitely way advanced....and they ae in pretty much game shape yr round...back then....25% of guys were maybe

[17to85]

7 hours ago, Brandon said:

You really think that if we could create a time machine and teleport 1980's Gretzky to play today in the NHL 2024 that he would score 200 points?  Are you out of your mind? 

Before you embarrass yourself any further... go watch some 1980's hockey.   Watch how unstructured it was and how hilariously bad the goalies were back in the day.   They were like slipping on banana peels and starfishing around and flailing out of place.   

If we could play magical time teleportation,  the current 2024 Oilers would not lose a game and McDavid would have 300+ points if they were teleported back to 1984.   The 1984 Oilers being time warped to 2024 NHL would be the last place team and would probably set the record for worst record ever.   The skating alone would be insanely night and day different.   

It doesn't mean Gretzky sucked or anything,  he just dominated during a different era.    Your comment is as silly as saying if Babe Ruth were to be playing with the Yankees today that he would belt 50 homers and pitch 20 complete games with a miniscule ERA.   

I can show you some absolutely god awful goaltending in the current nhl right now.... seriously go have a look at the top point seasons in the NHL... it might open your eyes. It's all Gretzky and lemieux... and then it's a pretty cross generational snapshot. Not everyone was putting up those numbers, 2 guys were. I mean Gretzky as an old man with a crippled back in the height of the dead puck era was putting up over a ppg.... Mario unretired from cancer and clowned the rest od the league in the dead luck era. 

Has overall depth of talent improved across sports? Yup, has training ans nutrition and probably most importantly medical treatment for injuries improved? Again it sure has.... but the best talents are still the best talents and era doesn't change that. Drop a prime flutie into the cfl today he would still rip the league a new *******.

[bluto]

I hate comparing players and teams from different eras.

The modern athlete as we know him to be in 2024 is a different creation than anything prior to the 2000s could have conceived of. And most of these guys who basically look like they've been produced in a laboratory somewhere look that way for a reason: they pretty much were for the first 18 years of their lives.

The only way these cross-era comparisons ever work for me requires that I imagine the player from the earlier generation having had the same training and upbringing in modern methodologies that the current one had. This would radically change my imagined outcome. Imagine a Guy Lafleur that didn't smoke and had all of the physical training, modern hockey analytics and nutrition/supplements that say Connor McDavid has had over his life in hockey? (Don't bother trying to imagine Wayne or Mario this way... Wayne would get injured walking to a weight room and Mario would tell off anyone who tried to get him to stop smoking his pack a day).

 

[Booch]

18 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

I can show you some absolutely god awful goaltending in the current nhl right now.... seriously go have a look at the top point seasons in the NHL... it might open your eyes. It's all Gretzky and lemieux... and then it's a pretty cross generational snapshot. Not everyone was putting up those numbers, 2 guys were. I mean Gretzky as an old man with a crippled back in the height of the dead puck era was putting up over a ppg.... Mario unretired from cancer and clowned the rest od the league in the dead luck era. 

Has overall depth of talent improved across sports? Yup, has training ans nutrition and probably most importantly medical treatment for injuries improved? Again it sure has.... but the best talents are still the best talents and era doesn't change that. Drop a prime flutie into the cfl today he would still rip the league a new *******.

yup....when your good...elite....doesnt matter when you played...save for maybe pre 1970's as guys were significantly smaller...and less athletically gifted save for the odd guy

But slap a prime player from 80's on thru into todays game...and they would fare just fine and they would also be training and taking advantage of how todays game is played...so safe to say they would be even better...Better training...equipment...coaching and facilities....certainly equates to better performance...a lot of the prime in any era have it upstairs too....which factors in huge

4 minutes ago, bluto said:

I hate comparing players and teams from different eras.

The modern athlete as we know him to be in 2024 is a different creation than anything prior to the 2000s could have conceived of. And most of these guys who basically look like they've been produced in a laboratory somewhere look that way for a reason: they pretty much were for the first 18 years of their lives.

The only way these cross-era comparisons ever work for me requires that I imagine the player from the earlier generation having had the same training and upbringing in modern methodologies that the current one had. This would radically change my imagined outcome. Imagine a Guy Lafleur that didn't smoke and had all of the physical training, modern hockey analytics and nutrition/supplements that say Connor McDavid has had over his life in hockey? (Don't bother trying to imagine Wayne or Mario this way... Wayne would get injured walking to a weight room and Mario would tell off anyone who tried to get him to stop smoking his pack a day).

 

you just touched on the point I made...yesterdays stars...in todays world...with access and mind set of todays athlete...would still be elite

Stick a Stegall or the likes in the era where smoking and drinking all off sesson and getting fat and starting your training at training camp basically...would not be the player we saw.....maybe back half the season

Charlie Roberts tho would thrive in any era...haha....lil bugger just had it

Edited October 23 by Booch

[rebusrankin]

The Flutie tossing shovel passes comment like it was all he did just shows some ignorance. Guy could make every throw. 

In terms of the 90s, Flutie not only spent significant time in the NFL, he was a Pro Bowler. Ditto Garcia, long NFL career and 4 Pro Bowls. David Archer had spent a number of years in the NFL before coming to the CFL.  Nobody currently in the CFL has done that or is likely too.

[Booch]

Just now, rebusrankin said:

The Flutie tossing shovel passes comment like it was all he did just shows some ignorance. Guy could make every throw. 

In terms of the 90s, Flutie not only spent significant time in the NFL, he was a Pro Bowler. Ditto Garcia, long NFL career and 4 Pro Bowls. David Archer had spent a number of years in the NFL before coming to the CFL.  Nobody currently in the CFL has done that or is likely too.

yeah but Nathan Rourke is a top 20 QB....in the world...Farhan and TSN say so

[Mark H.]

Sure, hockey in the 80s was less structured, but D - men got away with a lot more clutching and grabbing. Then you had the trap plus clutching and grabbing in tbe 90s.  Think of how the Devils played when they won all those cups. 

[Bigblue204]

26 minutes ago, rebusrankin said:

The Flutie tossing shovel passes comment like it was all he did just shows some ignorance. Guy could make every throw. 

In terms of the 90s, Flutie not only spent significant time in the NFL, he was a Pro Bowler. Ditto Garcia, long NFL career and 4 Pro Bowls. David Archer had spent a number of years in the NFL before coming to the CFL.  Nobody currently in the CFL has done that or is likely too.

This is true. But lets not pretend that we're comparing apples here. The NFL of today is far different than when Garcia and Flutie got their chances. I'm not trying to take anything away from them, just pointing out how the CFL is viewed today compared to back them. Whether or not their view of it is correct, it's different.

[HardCoreBlue]

1 hour ago, Mark H. said:

Sure, hockey in the 80s was less structured, but D - men got away with a lot more clutching and grabbing. Then you had the trap plus clutching and grabbing in tbe 90s.  Think of how the Devils played when they won all those cups. 

And now a little love tap on the gloves gets you two minutes hooking.

[GCn20]

On 2024-10-21 at 11:59 AM, bluto said:

Does it help any of the Chad haters that we've reached a point where opposition defences could pretty much hit him upside the helmet with Sauron's mace after the whistle and not get flagged?

Jokes aside, there's no denying it: when the Chad is having a good day (which is most of the time) he plays like an MOP.

Sure...that could be said about many QBs. When they are playing the top of their game they are playing like an MOP. What makes an MOP is consistently doing that. As for Kelly getting what he deserves, too bad.

On 2024-10-21 at 9:14 AM, blue85gold said:

Nobody plays at a HOF level with only 25 games. That doesn't make any sense. 

HOF level is doing that for many years. It is about being great for a long time. Not great for a season and a half. 

Exactly. If HOF was awarded for the first year and a half of a QBs career then Casey Printers and Jon Jennings would be shoe-ins as well.

17 hours ago, 17to85 said:

Completion percentage was way lower back in fluties time,  and ints were generally higher too. That's going to skew qb rating stats in a big way as they seem to favour playing a "clean" game. 

 

But hey, someone wants to go ahead and say Chad Kelly is comparable to Flutie go ahead and fill your boots.

Offensive risk taking philosophies were night and day to what they are now. QBs were not only allowed to, but offences asked them to, throw balls that would get them benched now.

Edited October 23 by GCn20

[GCn20]

11 hours ago, bb1 said:

I don't blame younger viewers for not appreciating Flutie's incredible talent. It's like watching vintage Gretzky. You had to be there to appreciate their vision and innate six sense. I will always remember Flutie escaping at the last minute and somehow finding an open player or killing us with a Qb sneak. Without a doubt the best Qb to play in the CFL. If he would of been taller we never would of seen him in the CFL.

Comparing eras to each other is a fool's game. One has to look at the dominance within their own era to determine all-time ranking. It would be ridiculous to suggest that any athlete from the 80's/90's would excel in the current era if they had a time machine. However, given the benefit of the advances we've seen in training, physio, etc. etc. I believe a guy like Flutie or Gretzky would be equally as dominant coming up through their development with the same massive advantages.

2 hours ago, bluto said:

I hate comparing players and teams from different eras.

The modern athlete as we know him to be in 2024 is a different creation than anything prior to the 2000s could have conceived of. And most of these guys who basically look like they've been produced in a laboratory somewhere look that way for a reason: they pretty much were for the first 18 years of their lives.

The only way these cross-era comparisons ever work for me requires that I imagine the player from the earlier generation having had the same training and upbringing in modern methodologies that the current one had. This would radically change my imagined outcome. Imagine a Guy Lafleur that didn't smoke and had all of the physical training, modern hockey analytics and nutrition/supplements that say Connor McDavid has had over his life in hockey? (Don't bother trying to imagine Wayne or Mario this way... Wayne would get injured walking to a weight room and Mario would tell off anyone who tried to get him to stop smoking his pack a day).

 

You are exactly right. Put the best hockey players in the world now into 70's era hockey skates and sticks etc and watch how they fare too.

[bb1]

16 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Comparing eras to each other is a fool's game. One has to look at the dominance within their own era to determine all-time ranking. It would be ridiculous to suggest that any athlete from the 80's/90's would excel in the current era if they had a time machine. However, given the benefit of the advances we've seen in training, physio, etc. etc. I believe a guy like Flutie or Gretzky would be equally as dominant coming up through their development with the same massive advantages.

You are exactly right. Put the best hockey players in the world now into 70's era hockey skates and sticks etc and watch how they fare too.

I was lucky to watch all of them in their prime,Mario the best pure offensive player ever,Gretzky the best vision and passer ever and Flutie who took escaping and making a play out of nothing an art form. Generational talent as they say. 😊

[wbbfan]

3 hours ago, Booch said:

Players from the 90's era...for most part could play now....some of the specialists and offensive talent may struggle....tho depending on what type of game they play too would be key

Some of the 90's guys were beats, and many were nicely PED'd up too...I know this as fact as I was there in 90's

You take a team with a dedicated FB and RB set....some maulers on the oline and one of that eras's starting QB's....Todays defence in a lot of regards would need to seriously adjust...and they may not have the beef to o so....

Trying to rate era's is a hard thing...too many different things in play...skilled position guys now are definitely way advanced....and they ae in pretty much game shape yr round...back then....25% of guys were maybe

Offensive players, aside from WRs, have dipped pretty good in talent over the last 10-15 years. If we had continued at that rate, I don't think most guys could play today. And while WR talent is high, I think it'd be one of the easier positions to play at across eras. Teams are soo disinterested in the run game today and just recycle backs endlessly. OL play is in a serious low point (even with holding basically not called any more) and QB play has had the biggest drop off. 

I actually think a heavier team atleast on offence would be very hard to defend today. Imagine the thunder and lightning era bombers? Who is lining up to take on mike sellers for any team? The amount of guys on the average D today, who weigh more than 225 lbs is extremely low. Any powerback of size would give the league fits today.

[Booch]

16 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

Offensive players, aside from WRs, have dipped pretty good in talent over the last 10-15 years. If we had continued at that rate, I don't think most guys could play today. And while WR talent is high, I think it'd be one of the easier positions to play at across eras. Teams are soo disinterested in the run game today and just recycle backs endlessly. OL play is in a serious low point (even with holding basically not called any more) and QB play has had the biggest drop off. 

I actually think a heavier team atleast on offence would be very hard to defend today. Imagine the thunder and lightning era bombers? Who is lining up to take on mike sellers for any team? The amount of guys on the average D today, who weigh more than 225 lbs is extremely low. Any powerback of size would give the league fits today.

If we were to play a 80 percent 2 back set with BO and even another bruiser, and a true tight end type who is used on release passes and streaks and slants...and just beat the crap outta of a defense and took shots with the receivers when it was there....good luck with that with a lot of the undersized defenses

[bluto]

1 hour ago, GCn20 said:

Sure...that could be said about many QBs. When they are playing the top of their game they are playing like an MOP. What makes an MOP is consistently doing that. As for Kelly getting what he deserves, too bad.

You don't have to like him, but saying that he deserves to be fouled, in a sport where fouls can be life altering, is a bad look.