GDT Can the Bombers D shutdown the Als?

[rebusrankin]

For what its worth on Lawler, he was holding his forearm and wrist area when he was walking off the field.

As for the game, pretty crappy.

[Booch]

4 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

Wilson and Mitchell both looked like they had no clue what was happening when they were out on O.  They’ll see that pretty quick on film against their assignments.

Potentially a significant part of the issue downfield with Collaros holding onto the ball.

Clercius looked the best of the 3.

I’ll have more thoughts later….some really bad vibes off the sideline in this one though in summary.  The kind of game that will be a turning point in either direction.  Saw a lot of individual efforts and self-aggrandizing unfortunately from a couple vets.  Guys who maybe have to fill a bit of a void of core guys who departed.  Not a good look.

I am pretty sure tho they wont publically say it...many vets aren't happy with some the things...but will keep up the all is rosey appearnace for the better of the team...but you will see it in their body language and sideline frustrations....even if thy dont realize they showing it

[HardCoreBlue]

7 hours ago, 17to85 said:

Ford had some ups and downs but I suspect time will be very kind to him as the year goes on. Defense was mostly pretty solid until the end when they just gave up because it was clear the offense was never going to to anything to get back into it. 

Mitchell had a nice opening return then fumbled and just completely went walkabout for the rest of the game. If you do one thing as a returner just field the kick cleanly, he couldn't even get under the kicks as the game went on. Fail.

Offense... what a load of crap. 

 

Better to be punched in the mouth now than when it's too late. 

I think your last sentence will be very telling in how this team responds moving forward.

[Booch]

Just now, HardCoreBlue said:

I think your last sentence will be very telling in how this team responds moving forward.

last 2 cups were punches in the mouth....we got up...albeit staggering and continued...maybe this was finally the knock-out and we have the sensability to now regroup...re-inventory things and finally learn from it and March forward

Defensively I like what we saw...and rostered if used right...with a few small roster tweeks....The Als offence didnt light us up by any means and not once drove the field....Thomas should be shelved and let the young guys earn their keep...and with Biggie and now Lawler on the 6 game...Lawson as well....no reason to not bring in Bennett and or Kongbo to totally take Jake out of the equation, as well as knowing Osh the return of our other Bennett who I am sure once healed will be right back out there

No reason why Cole shouldnt be eating 80 percent of snaps....Kramdi is always running in and around the plays...but isnt disrupting anything....or being there in time to break a play up and make an impact....tackles after the fact look good in the stats sheet but thats about it...Also still not sold on Holm....as much as others....He is poor at the physical game...is a below average tackler and some what like Kramdi...gets there a lot after the fact...I'd much prefer him playing the centerfield safety role coming over and actually taking balls away....he looked like he regressed a bit...tho he was another vet who got the no need to play" training camp too wasn't he...so he could have been rusty too

considering we knew none the guys who started on the oline in the final pre-season was really gonna make the squad...save for Lofton. (who I truly think was pencilled in from get go anyway)...we should have let the starting unit get reps as a whole for some of it...as you could see...especially in the interior they were right out of sync...Dobson took reps at center that game but why...We have Eli...who should be staring btw...and Kolo can be the back up longterm if Eli drops with injury..Not Dobson...entrench him at gaurd and let him just do that

Osh likes his underdogs...especially Canadian ones and it's preventing Eli a chance..Kolo was grabbed off the scrap heap after 2 yrs of nobody wanting him and got in due to injury..serviceable sure...great....no....weak link...yeah...and we sit Eli...top 3 center in the NFL draft if not injured....does nothing but destroy guys when in the lineup...by all accounts smart and team first....but yet he languishes....unreal

 

 

 

[Super Duper Negatron]

Season opener, at home against the team that broke your hearts in the Grey Cup and the coach admits they weren't prepared? Alarm bells...

[Mike]

4 minutes ago, Super Duper Negatron said:

Season opener, at home against the team that broke your hearts in the Grey Cup and the coach admits they weren't prepared? Alarm bells...

For a team that made it their calling card for so long, they’ve been lacking in preparedness pretty consistently in recent times 

[wpgallday1960]

2 minutes ago, Mike said:

For a team that made it their calling card for so long, they’ve been lacking in preparedness pretty consistently in recent times 

Injuries and a lackadaisical TC hurt their preparations, IMO.  Osh has some work to do both with the players and coaching staff.  Can’t just rely on the vets to “figure it out”.

[Slimy Sculpin]

10 minutes ago, Super Duper Negatron said:

Season opener, at home against the team that broke your hearts in the Grey Cup and the coach admits they weren't prepared? Alarm bells...

Yes, it looked like they weren't prepared. And from what I've read about player use in the two pre-season games, it perhaps shouldn't have been a surprise. It was down right embarrassing! If I'm Wade Miller, I'm having a little chat with the coaching staff today. Heck, maybe I had it right after the game! An effort like that is going to result in empty seats in the stands and fewer $$s in the coffer.

[M.O.A.B.]

I don't think Haba is the answer on the other DE spot and we have to wait 6 weeks before we see Garbutt. 

In the hindsight, we could have keep Dru, traded Zach to Ottawa for Mauldin. That pairing could be better than the Jeffs.

 

[Booch]

7 minutes ago, wpgallday1960 said:

Injuries and a lackadaisical TC hurt their preparations, IMO.  Osh has some work to do both with the players and coaching staff.  Can’t just rely on the vets to “figure it out”.

time to coach

[Mike]

9 minutes ago, wpgallday1960 said:

Injuries and a lackadaisical TC hurt their preparations, IMO.  Osh has some work to do both with the players and coaching staff.  Can’t just rely on the vets to “figure it out”.

It’s not injuries though. It’s coaching and decision making within the locker room. There’s been a laundry list of questionable decisions being made over the past year and the talent is no longer enough to overcome them.

O’Shea needs to be more of a coach, which is what got us to the point we were at, and be less of what feels like a chaperone at times.

[JuranBoldenRules]

9 minutes ago, M.O.A.B. said:

I don't think Haba is the answer on the other DE spot and we have to wait 6 weeks before we see Garbutt. 

In the hindsight, we could have keep Dru, traded Zach to Ottawa for Mauldin. That pairing could be better than the Jeffs.

 

I thought Haba was pretty good, lots of good pressure that killed plays for the Als.  Jefferson plays really shitty against any QB who has an inkling to leave the pocket, like Fajardo.  And last night was just another example of that.  Very undisciplined on rush, doesn't finish plays.  Over pursues and leaves that lane for the QB to escape.

Needs a major come to football Jesus moment in terms of realizing what he needs to do to make this team better.  And it's not chase his own numbers, yell at the stat man when you're down 3 TD's that you tipped a ball.  He's the leader now.  He's 33.  Not 23.  Time to walk the walk and not be a complete clown.

[Bubba Zanetti]

O'Shea looks like he's developed the Paul Maurice with Jets awesome coaching style of "I dont coach the vets, i leave it up to them to be prepared and figure it out". Didnt work out too well for Maurice(i guess you could argue that it did lol).

[JuranBoldenRules]

7 minutes ago, Bubba Zanetti said:

O'Shea looks like he's developed the Paul Maurice with Jets awesome coaching style of "I dont coach the vets, i leave it up to them to be prepared and figure it out". Didnt work out too well for Maurice(i guess you could argue that it did lol).

I think he's let a group take over for sure.  There's kind of a "do no wrong" crew.  I think it was ok when they were at their peak and could self-regulate with the right voices.  We've lost a lot of those voices though.  Personalities like Lawler and Jefferson aren't fit to be those guys, can't lead by example so their words are pretty hollow when the cards are on the table.

I agree that there's quite a mess they'll have to manage pretty quick.  O'Shea wants the players to run the room but this group needs more from him until they are (maybe) ready for that.

Didn't help having 96 guys in camp as of 6 days ago either.  This team needs to find an identity and mesh.  They've had two practices.

 

[JuranBoldenRules]

For all the hand wringing on the depth chart....

Wilson played MLB.  Gauthier barely played D.  Wilson was godawful and got burned by Fajardo scrambles multiple times.  A couple times it was hard to understand what he saw but I have to believe he was worried about abandoning coverage to track Fajardo...but at least a couple time Fajardo was already over the line.

Karamoko took the most snaps at WIL....the guy listed as 3rd on the depth chart.  Cole took some at both WIL and SAM, played about 3/4 snaps.

Almost half of Fajardo's of passes were targeted at Ford.  So Montreal really liked that matchup.  Which is not a typical one to attack with a pop gun arm QB to the field.  And almost half of their total offense and two TD's came from those targets.  Expect that to be attacked by everyone until there's a change or Ford turns it around.  Athleticism counts for nil if you're watching the ball/covering turf and standing on flat feet.

[wbbfan]

9 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

I thought Haba was pretty good, lots of good pressure that killed plays for the Als.  Jefferson plays really shitty against any QB who has an inkling to leave the pocket, like Fajardo.  And last night was just another example of that.  Very undisciplined on rush, doesn't finish plays.  Over pursues and leaves that lane for the QB to escape.

Needs a major come to football Jesus moment in terms of realizing what he needs to do to make this team better.  And it's not chase his own numbers, yell at the stat man when you're down 3 TD's that you tipped a ball.  He's the leader now.  He's 33.  Not 23.  Time to walk the walk and not be a complete clown.

Agree, habba looked better than last year. He was much more consistent that willy. 

2 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

I think he's let a group take over for sure.  There's kind of a "do no wrong" crew.  I think it was ok when they were at their peak and could self-regulate with the right voices.  We've lost a lot of those voices though.  Personalities like Lawler and Jefferson aren't fit to be those guys, can't lead by example so their words are pretty hollow when the cards are on the table.

I agree that there's quite a mess they'll have to manage pretty quick.  O'Shea wants the players to run the room but this group needs more from him until they are (maybe) ready for that.

Didn't help having 96 guys in camp as of 6 days ago either.  This team needs to find an identity and mesh.  They've had two practices.

 

Thats a great point. I wonder how much of this rusty, under prepared, slack ass start was the crappy planned and executed end of TC and beginning of the season. 

 

IF they don't come out playing next week like their pants are on fire, it's going to be real bad news. 

[Booch]

1 minute ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

For all the hand wringing on the depth chart....

Wilson played MLB.  Gauthier barely played D.  Wilson was godawful and got burned by Fajardo scrambles multiple times.  A couple times it was hard to understand what he saw but I have to believe he was worried about abandoning coverage to track Fajardo...but at least a couple time Fajardo was already over the line.

Karamoko took the most snaps at WIL....the guy listed as 3rd on the depth chart.  Cole took some at both WIL and SAM, played about 3/4 snaps.

Almost half of Fajardo's of passes were targeted at Ford.  So Montreal really liked that matchup.  Which is not a typical one to attack with a pop gun arm QB to the field.  And almost half of their total offense and two TD's came from those targets.  Expect that to be attacked by everyone until there's a change or Ford turns it around.  Athleticism counts for nil if you're watching the ball/covering turf and standing on flat feet.

To be honest...yeah they went to Ford's side of the field...but also were targeting the scheme and HB there..I know I am not a huge fan of Holm but he made a couple glaring errors which cost us...2 of which come to mind where people assume Ford was the issue...and he wasnt

[wbbfan]

9 hours ago, 17to85 said:

Ford had some ups and downs but I suspect time will be very kind to him as the year goes on. Defense was mostly pretty solid until the end when they just gave up because it was clear the offense was never going to to anything to get back into it. 

Mitchell had a nice opening return then fumbled and just completely went walkabout for the rest of the game. If you do one thing as a returner just field the kick cleanly, he couldn't even get under the kicks as the game went on. Fail.

Offense... what a load of crap. 

 

Better to be punched in the mouth now than when it's too late. 

The bombers did a good job of bouncing back the game after getting slapped last year, but boy they did not do a good job of responding in game while being hit in the mouth. And that continued last night. 

4 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

For all the hand wringing on the depth chart....

Wilson played MLB.  Gauthier barely played D.  Wilson was godawful and got burned by Fajardo scrambles multiple times.  A couple times it was hard to understand what he saw but I have to believe he was worried about abandoning coverage to track Fajardo...but at least a couple time Fajardo was already over the line.

Karamoko took the most snaps at WIL....the guy listed as 3rd on the depth chart.  Cole took some at both WIL and SAM, played about 3/4 snaps.

Almost half of Fajardo's of passes were targeted at Ford.  So Montreal really liked that matchup.  Which is not a typical one to attack with a pop gun arm QB to the field.  And almost half of their total offense and two TD's came from those targets.  Expect that to be attacked by everyone until there's a change or Ford turns it around.  Athleticism counts for nil if you're watching the ball/covering turf and standing on flat feet.

Thing is, Ayers didn't get snaps. Cole took less than 3/4 especially in the first half, but did get a solid half plus of them. Jake ate a ton of the reps. Both wilson and our wil combos got washed out in the line, especially when jake was on the nose. 

3 minutes ago, Booch said:

To be honest...yeah they went to Ford's side of the field...but also were targeting the scheme and HB there..I know I am not a huge fan of Holm but he made a couple glaring errors which cost us...2 of which come to mind where people assume Ford was the issue...and he wasnt

Yep, All 3 of ba, holm, and ford seemed up prepared and un able to adjust or fix it in game. It was a lot of cover 3 with ford being the flat defender. Ford had one bust, holm had 2 by my count, but all in all I'm optimistic the secondary will sort out really well with the guys we have. 

[JuranBoldenRules]

5 minutes ago, Booch said:

To be honest...yeah they went to Ford's side of the field...but also were targeting the scheme and HB there..I know I am not a huge fan of Holm but he made a couple glaring errors which cost us...2 of which come to mind where people assume Ford was the issue...and he wasnt

They were 100% attacking zone at some points.  On several plays that went for first downs Ford just dropped into his deep third and watched the rest of the play happen in front of him.  We don't know what their keys are, but I assume they don't want guys to drop right out like that when the route from the slot is in breaking in a 3 man route.  At that point in any Cover 3 I've been a part of the corner is reading deep outside breaking route (none) and down to the wideout, not keep giving up depth for no reason.  The half has to cover that route to the safety and the SAM would trail the inside slot/tight end either way.

It was basically a free first down once they ran it a couple times and realized Ford was lost.  Then they just played with his eyes all night, short and deep.  Get him worried about smoke screens, run the setup to give that look and go over top of him.

Hopefully comes back with lessons learned from this experience because he hasn't played much actual football since he left U Sports.

[Booch]

2 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

They were 100% attacking zone at some points.  On several plays that went for first downs Ford just dropped into his deep third and watched the rest of the play happen in front of him.  We don't know what their keys are, but I assume they don't want guys to drop right out like that when the route from the slot is in breaking in a 3 man route.  At that point in any Cover 3 I've been a part of the corner is reading deep outside breaking route (none) and down to the wideout, not keep giving up depth for no reason.  The half has to cover that route to the safety and the SAM would trail the inside slot/tight end either way.

It was basically a free first down once they ran it a couple times and realized Ford was lost.  Then they just played with his eyes all night, short and deep.  Get him worried about smoke screens, run the setup to give that look and go over top of him.

Hopefully comes back with lessons learned from this experience because he hasn't played much actual football since he left U Sports.

yup....its learn on the fly...I sure he will see it...and be coached up in film....not working together in camp with heavy reps during pre-seasone didnt help matters in any either

[Goalie]

Reading that chipped ball article makes me wonder what the **** are they thinking. USFL got rid of it in 2 weeks plus u took this idea from the USFL. What the ****. 

31 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

Agree, habba looked better than last year. He was much more consistent that willy. 

Thats a great point. I wonder how much of this rusty, under prepared, slack ass start was the crappy planned and executed end of TC and beginning of the season. 

 

IF they don't come out playing next week like their pants are on fire, it's going to be real bad news. 

id think prob not as much as we all hope. I hope it’s rust and perhaps not playing against cuts in a vanilla pre season game but part of me is feeling it’s not rust and it’s just 35 36 yr old Zach now. Fajardo 32 33. That kinda might be the reason. Those 3 4 years difference. Zach has not looked good the last 2 times against Montreal. Zach is at the point where it could be Father Time and that’s not a thought ppl probably want to entertain. It’s easier to blame the coaches.  But the reality is Zach was the one out there sucking. You’d think they might recognize his struggles and bench him but even last year he basically had to be injured to be pulled. 

Edited June 7 by Goalie

[JohnnyAbonny]

L

11 minutes ago, Goalie said:

Reading that chipped ball article makes me wonder what the **** are they thinking. USFL got rid of it in 2 weeks plus u took this idea from the USFL. What the ****. 

id think prob not as much as we all hope. I hope it’s rust and perhaps not playing against cuts in a vanilla pre season game but part of me is feeling it’s not rust and it’s just 35 36 yr old Zach now. Fajardo 32 33. That kinda might be the reason. Those 3 4 years difference. Zach has not looked good the last 2 times against Montreal. Zach is at the point where it could be Father Time and that’s not a thought ppl probably want to entertain. It’s easier to blame the coaches.  But the reality is Zach was the one out there sucking. You’d think they might recognize his struggles and bench him but even last year he basically had to be injured to be pulled. 

I agree with everything about Zach. I also think MOS has made some stubborn, overly loyal and quite frankly stupid decisions over the last 2 years. 
Both carry blame for what we saw last night. 

As 

40 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

For all the hand wringing on the depth chart....

Wilson played MLB.  Gauthier barely played D.  Wilson was godawful and got burned by Fajardo scrambles multiple times.  A couple times it was hard to understand what he saw but I have to believe he was worried about abandoning coverage to track Fajardo...but at least a couple time Fajardo was already over the line.

Karamoko took the most snaps at WIL....the guy listed as 3rd on the depth chart.  Cole took some at both WIL and SAM, played about 3/4 snaps.

Almost half of Fajardo's of passes were targeted at Ford.  So Montreal really liked that matchup.  Which is not a typical one to attack with a pop gun arm QB to the field.  And almost half of their total offense and two TD's came from those targets.  Expect that to be attacked by everyone until there's a change or Ford turns it around.  Athleticism counts for nil if you're watching the ball/covering turf and standing on flat feet.

Wilson is close to Jake Thomas territory now. It’s a shame we cut the 22 year old LB making plays all over the place in preseason.

Edited June 7 by JohnnyAbonny

[Goalie]

Wilson Jake and Alexander plus kola are all closer to the end than the beginning. Bryant also unfortunately and neufeld but the one who might have 1 foot through the door right now is Zach   
 

when the vet QB looks like a rookie  you got problems 

 

Edited June 7 by Goalie

[bigg jay]

6 minutes ago, Goalie said:

Reading that chipped ball article makes me wonder what the **** are they thinking. USFL got rid of it in 2 weeks plus u took this idea from the USFL. What the ****. 

id think prob not as much as we all hope. I hope it’s rust and perhaps not playing against cuts in a vanilla pre season game but part of me is feeling it’s not rust and it’s just 35 36 yr old Zach now. Fajardo 32 33. That kinda might be the reason. Those 3 4 years difference. Zach has not looked good the last 2 times against Montreal. Zach is at the point where it could be Father Time. 

No they didn't.  The NFL has been using microchips in their balls since about 2017 - the difference is the size of the chip.  The NFL chip is about the size of a thumbnail while the USFL chip (and presumably the CFL too if it's causing this issue) is about the size of a golf ball. AFAIK, the data collected isn't really kicking related so a simple solution might be to have a separate set of regular balls for kicking plays & save the chipped ones for everything else. 

[17to85]

1 hour ago, M.O.A.B. said:

don't think Haba is the answer on the other DE spot and we have to wait 6 weeks before we see Garbutt

Seriously? Haba was causing problems for the als all night... he was really good, hands up high penalty aside he was one of the brightest spots on the team.