GDT Can the Bombers D shutdown the Als?

[Slimy Sculpin]

Lots of issues and errors from the Bombers last night. Most have been pointed out and discussed. Has anyone mentioned O'Shea's challenge on the punt/fumble/no yards play? I can understand why he challenged it (sort of).....fumble lost, upstairs folks probably gave him the green light. But one of the replays showed that one of the Montreal players looked like he was maybe literally a foot inside the 5 yd zone. So, no one should have been surprised that reviewers didn't call it. Lost challenge, lost time out.

[Goalie]

2 minutes ago, bigg jay said:

No they didn't.  The NFL has been using microchips in their balls since about 2017 - the difference is the size of the chip.  The NFL chip is about the size of a thumbnail while the USFL chip (and presumably the CFL too if it's causing this issue) is about the size of a golf ball. AFAIK, the data collected isn't really kicking related so a simple solution might be to have a separate set of regular balls for kicking plays & save the chipped ones for everything else. 

A golf ball inside the football? They didn’t think that one through.  My 9 yr old could tell you that would effect kicks. 

[HardCoreBlue]

36 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

They were 100% attacking zone at some points.  On several plays that went for first downs Ford just dropped into his deep third and watched the rest of the play happen in front of him.  We don't know what their keys are, but I assume they don't want guys to drop right out like that when the route from the slot is in breaking in a 3 man route.  At that point in any Cover 3 I've been a part of the corner is reading deep outside breaking route (none) and down to the wideout, not keep giving up depth for no reason.  The half has to cover that route to the safety and the SAM would trail the inside slot/tight end either way.

It was basically a free first down once they ran it a couple times and realized Ford was lost.  Then they just played with his eyes all night, short and deep.  Get him worried about smoke screens, run the setup to give that look and go over top of him.

Hopefully comes back with lessons learned from this experience because he hasn't played much actual football since he left U Sports.

Not a good look at any level of football. Can't be a spectator.

[Goalie]

1 minute ago, Slimy Sculpin said:

Lots of issues and errors from the Bombers last night. Most have been pointed out and discussed. Has anyone mentioned O'Shea's challenge on the punt/fumble/no yards play? I can understand why he challenged it (sort of).....fumble lost, upstairs folks probably gave him the green light. But one of the replays showed that one of the Montreal players looked like he was maybe literally a foot inside the 5 yd zone. So, no one should have been surprised that reviewers didn't call it. Lost challenge, lost time out.

I’m thinking Osh trusts his players at times to much. Might be a case of asking the guys and Mitchell and them saying he was within 5 yards.  At first look I thought wow he was tackled instantly so must have been no yards. 
 

Edited June 7 by Goalie

[TBURGESS]

We came in fat and happy. Practice? We don't need no stinking practice. Then the rust showed. The timing was off. The throws were off. The kicks were off. The fans were pissed off. 

It might be exactly what we needed to force the team to refocus and get down to business. 

[Slimy Sculpin]

3 minutes ago, bigg jay said:

No they didn't.  The NFL has been using microchips in their balls since about 2017 - the difference is the size of the chip.  The NFL chip is about the size of a thumbnail while the USFL chip (and presumably the CFL too if it's causing this issue) is about the size of a golf ball. AFAIK, the data collected isn't really kicking related so a simple solution might be to have a separate set of regular balls for kicking plays & save the chipped ones for everything else. 

So, are you suggesting that all the balls are "chipped" with something the size (and weight?) of a golf ball? I'm grasping at straws here but could that impact Collaros' long throws where more than a little "touch" is required?

[Goalie]

The rust showed the last game last year vs Montreal also. Do ppl ever think maybe it wasn’t as simple as just rust. 

[17to85]

2 minutes ago, Goalie said:

The rust showed the last game last year vs Montreal also. Do ppl ever think maybe it wasn’t as simple as just rust. 

You are hell bent on downplaying the factor that not playing 90% of the starting offense at all in preseason has.... I mean did guys like Oliveira or Demski even get a week of camp time? The O was a mess and it wasn't just because Collaros had a terrible night. 

[JuranBoldenRules]

New slogan, "our balls are chippier."

All they need to do is have balls set aside for kicking.  NFL has forever.

[Super Duper Negatron]

7 minutes ago, Slimy Sculpin said:

Lots of issues and errors from the Bombers last night. Most have been pointed out and discussed. Has anyone mentioned O'Shea's challenge on the punt/fumble/no yards play? I can understand why he challenged it (sort of).....fumble lost, upstairs folks probably gave him the green light. But one of the replays showed that one of the Montreal players looked like he was maybe literally a foot inside the 5 yd zone. So, no one should have been surprised that reviewers didn't call it. Lost challenge, lost time out.

He said it looked closer on the iPad on the look he had but admitted later when he saw another angle that it was clean.

[bigg jay]

1 minute ago, Slimy Sculpin said:

So, are you suggesting that all the balls are "chipped" with something the size (and weight?) of a golf ball? I'm grasping at straws here but could that impact Collaros' long throws where more than a little "touch" is required?

It's possible.  I have no idea what size/weight the CFL chip is but at least for the USFL ones, there were reports that it was also affecting their QB's.

Quote

According to ProFootballTalk, USFL kickers made 18 of 27 field goals (66.7%) in Week 1 and converted 17 for 22 (77.3%) kicks through three games in Week 2. Division III football analyst Frank Rossi also reported that quarterbacks are having issues throwing the heavier USFL footballs because the sensors add 4-to-5 ounces of weight that’s not evenly distributed throughout the ball. 

https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/Daily/Issues/2022/04/26/Technology/usfl-abandons-sensors-in-kicking-balls.aspx

[Super Duper Negatron]

5 minutes ago, Slimy Sculpin said:

So, are you suggesting that all the balls are "chipped" with something the size (and weight?) of a golf ball? I'm grasping at straws here but could that impact Collaros' long throws where more than a little "touch" is required?

Fajardo seemed to do just fine.

[Goalie]

1 minute ago, 17to85 said:

You are hell bent on downplaying the factor that not playing 90% of the starting offense at all in preseason has.... I mean did guys like Oliveira or Demski even get a week of camp time? The O was a mess and it wasn't just because Collaros had a terrible night. 

Not really. I just think this goes back to last season. I think every time Zach sucks some ppl refuse to admit that it could be anything but rust. He looked like this last year vs Edmonton before being hurt. Was it rust then also. 

[JuranBoldenRules]

5 minutes ago, Super Duper Negatron said:

He said it looked closer on the iPad on the look he had but admitted later when he saw another angle that it was clean.

A lot of those issues with allowing the Als to flood on cover are related to Mitchell not attacking the ball.  Then everyone is anticipating him actually grabbing the ball but he's still waiting and the Als are all right at the line of No Yards ready to drop on him.

[17to85]

2 minutes ago, Super Duper Negatron said:

Fajardo seemed to do just fine.

Maybe the off balance just counteracts his usual ducks?

[JuranBoldenRules]

12 minutes ago, Slimy Sculpin said:

So, are you suggesting that all the balls are "chipped" with something the size (and weight?) of a golf ball? I'm grasping at straws here but could that impact Collaros' long throws where more than a little "touch" is required?

Pretty damn windy last night.  ZC has regularly struggled with that playing with any ball and our offense has never really done a great job of making the adjustments for it.  Kind of downfield or nothing.

[17to85]

1 minute ago, Goalie said:

Not really. I just think this goes back to last season. I think every time Zach sucks some ppl refuse to admit that it could be anything but rust. He looked like this last year vs Edmonton before being hurt. Was it rust then also. 

I don't agree with that at all, plenty of people calling out collaros. But you can't deny that the whole group was out of sync last night.

[Booch]

8 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

I don't agree with that at all, plenty of people calling out collaros. But you can't deny that the whole group was out of sync last night.

agreed....a lot of people who havnt played at a high level are discounting the fact that you are rusty..slower to react and aren't seeing things right at game speed from not playing....That's all part of the rust and being unprepared....the mental aspect and the processing...it's not a switch you flip on and off at will

It takes sometimes games to get the head in the right state as well as the muscle memory, and the instictive movements....as opposed to the thinking about it...and sometimes that fraction of a second difference in football is huge...it showed

We also should have had a plan B ready to go for that, as well as the game conditioning aspect for the guys who came in with lead legs if they were showing signs of not being 100% game ready....and we didnt...BO and Demski both were missing that extra something...and thats from having only 1 real practice...huge oversight

 

Edited June 7 by Booch

[do or die]

Unprepared 

Poor execution

Questionable coaching 

Turnovers

Bad special teams

Yes, a grand evening for the big crowd at home.....playing the team that took away another cup win.   

One thing to lose...but to look that inept, especially on a vet filled O....is inexcusable. 

 

 

[Booch]

1 minute ago, do or die said:

Unprepared 

Poor execution

Questionable coaching 

Turnovers

Bad special teams

Yes, a grand evening for the big crowd at home.....playing the team that took away another cup win.   

One thing to lose...but to look that inept, especially on a vet filled O....is inexcusable. 

 

 

it really bordered on embarrasing...and falls right at the HC feet...some players were put in a spot where they were gonna fail....can't put it on them for that..It's up to your coach to have you ready...prepared...and the best available guys playing....where have I heard this before????

[wbbfan]

50 minutes ago, Goalie said:

Reading that chipped ball article makes me wonder what the **** are they thinking. USFL got rid of it in 2 weeks plus u took this idea from the USFL. What the ****. 

id think prob not as much as we all hope. I hope it’s rust and perhaps not playing against cuts in a vanilla pre season game but part of me is feeling it’s not rust and it’s just 35 36 yr old Zach now. Fajardo 32 33. That kinda might be the reason. Those 3 4 years difference. Zach has not looked good the last 2 times against Montreal. Zach is at the point where it could be Father Time and that’s not a thought ppl probably want to entertain. It’s easier to blame the coaches.  But the reality is Zach was the one out there sucking. You’d think they might recognize his struggles and bench him but even last year he basically had to be injured to be pulled. 

He certainly looked his advanced age the couple of times he scrambled and the one time he ran. Even going back to last year he will start to scramble or run and it looks like he expects to hit another gear or two that just aren't there. I don't think he has any more of that famous escape roll out double back end zone td pass to darvin adams, not in live fire games. 

 I worry some of what we've seen goes deeper than age, or rust. Zach locking into one target, not checking down missing wide open guys, especially when he's under pressure of any sort. Big game, ol struggles, blitzes, great game plan by the other DC etc. I worry that zach has always been the same guy we saw in ssk, and in the end at Hamilton. but the team around him was soo good especially in end 19/ 21 etc that we could cover. We didnt need him to throw us to wins, every game. 

The underthrown balls, especially short to medium range, the missed reads, not picking up guys dropping, not checking down all that stuff isn't age. That's where the big struggle is. We've seen qb who have been far more reliant on their athleticism play to old age before. 

1 hour ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

They were 100% attacking zone at some points.  On several plays that went for first downs Ford just dropped into his deep third and watched the rest of the play happen in front of him.  We don't know what their keys are, but I assume they don't want guys to drop right out like that when the route from the slot is in breaking in a 3 man route.  At that point in any Cover 3 I've been a part of the corner is reading deep outside breaking route (none) and down to the wideout, not keep giving up depth for no reason.  The half has to cover that route to the safety and the SAM would trail the inside slot/tight end either way.

It was basically a free first down once they ran it a couple times and realized Ford was lost.  Then they just played with his eyes all night, short and deep.  Get him worried about smoke screens, run the setup to give that look and go over top of him.

Hopefully comes back with lessons learned from this experience because he hasn't played much actual football since he left U Sports.

It also happens frequently that the HCF zone would be covered by a lber in cover 3. Montreal seemed to pick up on this mistake on our end and roll the 3rd slot over to fords side leaving the sam there, which likely is supposed to adjust that call. Could be clarified with a re watch, but honestly I have no appetite to rewatch that game. Holm missing some cover 3 deep assignments tells me it's communication and implementation. BA seemed to be trying to straighten it out a couple times, but we was being pulled to the box on some of those plays as well. JY has some work to do, but I think we have the right guys. We should not be playing 2 canadian dbs at the same time nearly soo much though. Wish they worked bridges in more. 

 

41 minutes ago, JohnnyAbonny said:

L

I agree with everything about Zach. I also think MOS has made some stubborn, overly loyal and quite frankly stupid decisions over the last 2 years. 
Both carry blame for what we saw last night. 

As 

Wilson is close to Jake Thomas territory now. It’s a shame we cut the 22 year old LB making plays all over the place in preseason.

I wouldn't be surprised if we see atleast 1 of the imp lbers from this camp brought back at some point. 

 

33 minutes ago, bigg jay said:

No they didn't.  The NFL has been using microchips in their balls since about 2017 - the difference is the size of the chip.  The NFL chip is about the size of a thumbnail while the USFL chip (and presumably the CFL too if it's causing this issue) is about the size of a golf ball. AFAIK, the data collected isn't really kicking related so a simple solution might be to have a separate set of regular balls for kicking plays & save the chipped ones for everything else. 

The chips been around a while in the nfl for sure. I haven't heard of any issues on their end in a long time. Is the Optical tracking the NFL did in the preseason and that will likely replace the chain gang at some point, capable of collecting the same data? 

I know price wise the CFL will be a good bit away from having that installed in every stadium, but I think we will benefit in a HUGE way when that tech becomes standard up here. Spots up here are insanely bad with sickening consistency. And I will admit, getting an accurate spot on some plays is insanely hard, especially in short yardage. 

18 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

Pretty damn windy last night.  ZC has regularly struggled with that playing with any ball and our offense has never really done a great job of making the adjustments for it.  Kind of downfield or nothing.

QFT

18 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

I don't agree with that at all, plenty of people calling out collaros. But you can't deny that the whole group was out of sync last night.

I think both are right, and that we won't really know how much is skill degradation, how much is rust, and how much is league adjustments/closing of the talent gap between us and the rest of the league, for a couple more weeks.  Edit; or the wind factor like JBR said. 

Things did improve a bit in the 2nd half, but still was far from pretty. 

Edited June 7 by wbbfan

[Stickem]

Rusty Collaros showed up.....and the rest of the gang didn't fare much better....Time to file this one and move on quick....We know this club is better than what was unvailed last night.....HOWEVER IF the game in Ottawa resembles this abysmal failure......houston we have a problem......I don't know who masterminded the 'come in cold and expect a miracle' trick.....that doesn't work......Everything was out of sync and apparently spread into Castillo's game.....A start at home to forget ...I hope Streve is okay to go next game ....that bull$hit of playing Mr. Twister with his leg by Stubblejumper should be a fine and a game suspension by the league and while they're at it enforce a suspension on the Bettenator for his illegal CFL habit of betting on games

[kelownabomberfan]

10 hours ago, ShyGuy said:

Is Lawler's upper body injury his hand/wrist or his thorax?

his arm thorax

[kelownabomberfan]

2 hours ago, Slimy Sculpin said:

Yes, it looked like they weren't prepared. And from what I've read about player use in the two pre-season games, it perhaps shouldn't have been a surprise. It was down right embarrassing! If I'm Wade Miller, I'm having a little chat with the coaching staff today. Heck, maybe I had it right after the game! An effort like that is going to result in empty seats in the stands and fewer $$s in the coffer.

Had a good chat with Wade yesterday at the pre-game tail gate.  He's aware.

[IC Khari]

Was Lofton a detriment last night or was he OK? Never really noticed. I know there were a few coverage sacks but I thought overall Oline wasn’t as big of an issue as many had thought it might be. Montreal may be the best D in the league so that’s a positive …