WEEK TWO GAMEDAY THREAD - BOMBERS @ REDBLACKS

[JohnnyAbonny]

55 minutes ago, rebusrankin said:

Its fair to call most of us diehards. 19 and 21 were great. 22 and 23 hurt because we were so close to getting another cup or two. Many of us remember most if not all of the 29 year drought and 01 and 07 still hurt. To me that's where the frustrating we're expressing is coming from. At least that's how I feel and I imagine many of you feel the same.

My earliest football memory is the 1992 Grey Cup. 
I wore that f’n Bomber Blitz 1990 tape out for my whole childhood and adolescence waiting for another one. 

Reinbold. The 2001 GC. Unfinished Business.  2002 West final. Nate Davis pantomiming pissing on the W. ******* Wayne McGarrity.
 

The broken arm. Hungover Charlie. OH CANADA! HE’S BACK!!!

Freezing my ass off at the 08 ESF. 09 Banjo Bowl.  The Blue-Out Boat Game.  Odell dropping that pick 6. Tim “We could get blasted” Burke. 
 

I’m with you @Noeller I don’t want to go back. 

 

[sweep the leg]

1 hour ago, kelownabomberfan said:

Ok that's definitely something. I just have watched Zach basically regress horribly since 2022. To me that's the biggest issue.

While he is starting to get old, I don’t think it’s a coincidence that his play has fallen off as our ol has gotten worse. Our OL was great in 2021, but has gotten a little bit worse each year since.

[JohnnyAbonny]

3 minutes ago, sweep the leg said:

While he is starting to get old, I don’t think it’s a coincidence that his play has fallen off as our ol has gotten worse. Our OL was great in 2021, but has gotten a little bit worse each year since.

Unfortunately I think the book on Zach is he has the physical tools to excel behind the best OL in the country, but anything less and (I really hate to say it) it’s just not there mentally. 
We’ve seen him like that on 3 different teams now, it’s kind of a pattern. 

[Goalie]

Neufeld and kolo were being eaten alive against Ottawa. I thought Zach had more time against Montreal but even when Zach does have time he’s off, under throw or over throw or even a drop. He don’t look comfortable back there. Can’t blame him. I think the shots he took against Edmonton and maybe Hamilton was it? It broke him a bit. I liked Drew Willy, was a nice guy, probably still is but Zach Starting to look Drew Willy’d. It’s kind of a slower decline tho because I think definitely last year he had plenty of dud games. Brady didn’t so we won. 
 

I was in the keep dru brown and trade Zach camp. 
 

dru more of a spread the ball around guy. Zach more gunslinger mentality.  It’s unfortunate we kept Montana over Steve Young. lol. 
 it’s a good comparison at that point in Joe and Zachs careers. The younger dude. 
 

hopefully they figure it out. OL a massive problem. No push at all 

 

I’m not sure Dru would look much better behind this o line but he’d prob just take the short stuff  the check downs  and stuff, Zach eats those instead  

 

Edited June 15 by Goalie

[SpeedFlex27]

1 hour ago, Noeller said:

I just don't want to go back to being anything but the top of the mountain... I am not ready to go back to 2004.... 2013...... 😭

You'll stop calling PAS Fort Hew. To me, that'll be a positive. 

Edited June 15 by SpeedFlex27

[SpeedFlex27]

35 minutes ago, JohnnyAbonny said:

Unfortunately I think the book on Zach is he has the physical tools to excel behind the best OL in the country, but anything less and (I really hate to say it) it’s just not there mentally. 
We’ve seen him like that on 3 different teams now, it’s kind of a pattern. 

He doesn't have the time. I don't know what people expect? 

[JohnnyAbonny]

1 minute ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

He doesn't have the time. I don't know what people expect? 

Sometimes, that’s inarguable sure.
Others he had the time and just stared down one receiver or happy footed around. 

He’s never been the QB to run the quick game like an AC, or dink and dunk you to death like a Ricky Ray. 
He lives or dies with the deep shot and schoolyard stuff, for better or worse and that style lends itself least to an average or worse OL. 

[SpeedFlex27]

4 minutes ago, JohnnyAbonny said:

Sometimes, that’s inarguable sure.
Others he had the time and just stared down one receiver or happy footed around. 

He’s never been the QB to run the quick game like an AC, or dink and dunk you to death like a Ricky Ray. 
He lives or dies with the deep shot and schoolyard stuff, for better or worse and that style lends itself least to an average or worse OL. 

Then we had Matt Nicholls & fans here complained he couldn't throw a pass over 20 yards. It just is never good enough. 

Edited June 15 by SpeedFlex27

[JohnnyAbonny]

7 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Then we had Matt Nicholls & fans here complained he couldn't throw a pass over 20 yards. It just is never good enough. 

Well, I mean that’s a bit of a strawman argument.
A kick in the ass is better than a kick in the balls, doesn’t mean you wouldn’t rather get a handshake. 

[SpeedFlex27]

26 minutes ago, JohnnyAbonny said:

Well, I mean that’s a bit of a strawman argument.
A kick in the ass is better than a kick in the balls, doesn’t mean you wouldn’t rather get a handshake. 

When a qb doesn't throw deep posters complain. When a qb throws deep too much then again they complain. It's not a Strawman's argument. It is what it is. We read that here all the time. 

[17to85]

26 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

When a qb doesn't throw deep posters complain. When a qb throws deep too much then again they complain. It's not a Strawman's argument. It is what it is. We read that here all the time. 

I believe the real complaints about nichols only started when he physically couldn't do the job anymore.... kind of like Collaros is now. Dude can't escape like he used to and he's being eaten alive because of it. He is making the OL look worse than it is. Did it last year too but Brady just decided to carry the offense on his back. 

[SpeedFlex27]

1 minute ago, 17to85 said:

I believe the real complaints about nichols only started when he physically couldn't do the job anymore.... kind of like Collaros is now. Dude can't escape like he used to and he's being eaten alive because of it. He is making the OL look worse than it is. Did it last year too but Brady just decided to carry the offense on his back. 

Nothing is making that OL look worse. They're doing a really good job of that on their own. I also think that Buck Pierce once thought of as a great young qb coach & OC has gone stale with his playcalling. He's a big part of the overall problem now as well. 

[17to85]

6 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Nothing is making that OL look worse. They're doing a really good job of that on their own. I also think that Buck Pierce once thought of as a great young qb coach & OC has gone stale with his playcalling. He's a big part of the overall problem now as well. 

We can go round and round on that and we'll never know until we see something different... but collaros ain't doing himself any favours and that's plain as day regardless of whether the ol misses blocks. They're not missing every block out there.

[JohnnyAbonny]

7 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

When a qb doesn't throw deep posters complain. When a qb throws deep too much then again they complain. It's not a Strawman's argument. It is what it is. We read that here all the time. 

 First of all, throwing deep all the time or not at all don’t have to be the only 2 options. Of course posters will have an issue with too much of one or the other when it’s not working. Balance is key. 

Number 2. No one was complaining when the schoolyard stuff was working, it’s amazing to watch when it does. Now it’s not, and Zach doesn’t seem to be able to adjust his game at all.

Thirdly, That’s on Buck and the OL as well though, it’s not straight black and white the QBs fault only.
Use Strev as 1B, (and let him throw) if he’s having success and Zach still isn’t, make the switch. 

Edited June 15 by JohnnyAbonny

[JohnnyAbonny]

7 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Nothing is making that OL look worse. They're doing a really good job of that on their own. I also think that Buck Pierce once thought of as a great young qb coach & OC has gone stale with his playcalling. He's a big part of the overall problem now as well. 

I think this is a great point. The O ran best when Pete Constanza was helping put it together. Since he left, it’s more George Costanza. 
Speaking of future HC candidates, Pete would be a good one imo 

Edited June 15 by JohnnyAbonny

[wbbfan]

10 hours ago, JohnnyAbonny said:

I would say I started to see the cracks in Sept/22. Stayed in denial for about another year. 
The Crumback was the game where my eyes really opened to “they could be really screwed here if they let the whole team age out at once” 

The Calgary game on the road, again with Brown starting and a bunch of young guys on D flying around and making plays, only to all sit for the playoffs and GC when they really needed some youth/intensity and freshness. 
That’s where I fully saw the mistakes that were being made.

My only hope left (and it’s a slim one) is that they figure it out and reload for next year, giving us more of a 1989 deal than a 2004 one. 

The crumback was a huge crack in the glass. Another was the big upset loss in the regular season to the als to break the regular season streak. Just played flat and never adjusted. 

[17to85]

1 hour ago, JohnnyAbonny said:

Number 2. No one was complaining when the schoolyard stuff was working, it’s amazing to watch when it does. Now it’s not, and Zach doesn’t seem to be able to adjust his game at all.

It was zachs bread and butter... but his mobility looks like late stage calvillo thrse days and he can't play the role of pocket passer. 

Getting old sucks.

[wbbfan]

1 minute ago, 17to85 said:

It was zachs bread and butter... but his mobility looks like late stage calvillo thrse days and he can't play the role of pocket passer. 

Getting old sucks.

Losing the run game, Lawler, and having the worst pass pro in years should be the worst case scenario. But Zach also seems to not be able to escape, or make good decisions on the run any more. To an extent his struggles are the difference between the line being beaten consistently and the odd player making a play or a blitz coming through or the pass pro failing because of coverage. 
 The big concern for me with Zach is his decision making is consistently bad as is his accuracy and touch. Even when he get time or it gets out quick. 

[WBBFanWest]

I have nowhere near enough knowledge to suggest what might be wrong, but from a simple fan perspective, this team seems "off".  It just doesn't look like the Bombers from a few years ago.  The fire and determination just don't seem to be there.   And they really don't seem to be prepared.  For me, much of this has to point back to the coach.  I've never met Coach O'Shea, but the way he deals with the press, who are asking questions on behalf of all of us, has always come across as very condescending.  It's not something that's going to endear him to a lot of people.  That's ok when we're winning, but isn't going to hold up for long if we regress.  I hope he finds just a touch of humility and turns this thing around... soon.   

[Noeller]

Someone on this board (JBR??) said recently (paraphrasing here) "this team isn't good enough anymore to come out and half ass it and still find a way to win. They're all sitting around waiting for someone else to make the play"

Woogie agrees with you... And, based on this piece anyhow, I'm led to believe the locker room isn't blind to the issues...

 

 

 

Edited June 15 by Noeller

[TBURGESS]

Why are we having a wake for the death of the Bombers dynasty?

Why are people pretending that they knew it was coming all along? (Mike & Booch did)

[blue85gold]

26 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

Losing the run game, Lawler, and having the worst pass pro in years should be the worst case scenario. But Zach also seems to not be able to escape, or make good decisions on the run any more. To an extent his struggles are the difference between the line being beaten consistently and the odd player making a play or a blitz coming through or the pass pro failing because of coverage. 
 The big concern for me with Zach is his decision making is consistently bad as is his accuracy and touch. Even when he get time or it gets out quick. 

All QBs would struggle with the scenario bolded above. Zach can’t do it all by himself at this stage in his career. He’s always been a QB that will attack and throw some picks. His accuracy was fine against Ottawa. He can still be a winner but needs some support from the rest of the O including some more mixing Strev in 

[wbbfan]

12 minutes ago, blue85gold said:

All QBs would struggle with the scenario bolded above. Zach can’t do it all by himself at this stage in his career. He’s always been a QB that will attack and throw some picks. His accuracy was fine against Ottawa. He can still be a winner but needs some support from the rest of the O including some more mixing Strev in 

You’re right they would. But they wouldn’t struggle with making the right reads, would react by getting rid of it faster and wouldn’t be missing when they have protection or leave the pocket. 
 No it wasn’t fine. His accuracy was terrible, he was tossing hospital balls that constantly knuckled. He was still under throwing when he had time, throwing behind and his touch was awful. 
 If you fixed all the issues around him, you could win some games with him but he couldn’t carry to wins. 

[JohnnyAbonny]

50 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

Why are we having a wake for the death of the Bombers dynasty?

Why are people pretending that they knew it was coming all along? (Mike & Booch did)

1. Because it looks like it’s dead. 
2. Depends, who’s “people”?. I won’t pretend to have seen it as far back as Mike and Booch (wouldn’t have mocked them for it either, those guys have kind of a track record for knowing what they’re talking about)

I saw a bit in ‘22, much more toward the end of ‘23. After the Grey cup loss it really sunk in. 
Edit: I saw the issues but still got blindsided by just how quickly they crapped out. I thought up to and including Week 1 that the talent we still have would be worth another year of above .500 football. 
 

Edited June 15 by JohnnyAbonny

[Colin Unger]

I think we all agree on the point that the offensive line this season to date has been horrible. So my question is how can we really properly evaluate Zach Collaros under these conditions. Does he looks worse now then he did in late Hamilton or with the Riders? I think he will still be fine "if" we get the pass blocking situation figured out. And there's no reason right now especially with our depth of Canadian starters to settle for a bad offensive line. We've got Tui we've got American in camp.  Another question i have is would Geoff Gray not be superior to Paddy Nuefeld at this point and would we not consider giving him a call?