3 stars turds and maybe a glimmer of hope

[wbbfan]

What I look for in a guard is efficient foot work.  Not needing big steps or rushing, keeping their feet under their frame getting to their spot and initiating contact. Choppy off balance footwork is a big indicator of struggle, but so is stepping too much to get to where they’re going. Leaves guys tiring out. 
 Fast violent hands is a big one. I hate seeing linemen slow to get their hands on guys or tentative. It’s like cobra kai, strike first strike hard no mercy. If the ol can jolt the dl in pass and run pro with the first contact that’s a big deal. 
 Bend is big, but should be teachable. Leverage takes you far. Often athletic linemen get away with poor mechanics at lower levels. Relying on upper body strength rather than generating from the ground up. They tend to un balance them self with a punch move as well in this case. 

O Linemen who spend their time trying to fight dl with their hands on shoulder pads seldom work out. It’s only a bit of movement before they rely on holding. Punch move, try and get under the pads, then go shoulders if needed. This is how guys go long stretches with out holding calls like Bryant. 
 

Hip fluidity is as important as lateral quickness imo. When you’re engaged and a guy tries to turn the corner being able to move and adjust with out losing power is big. 
 

I think the ni ol who play most of their ball in the us struggle with the yard off the ball. In pass pro the dl getting momentum is like a slot with the waggle, it hits differently. In run pro it makes you move then hit rather than just uncoiling from a 3pt stance or deep 2. 

[Goalie]

All I know. You can’t take this **** to seriously. Can’t base happiness on sports teams. I go in to games this year expecting to be blown out. It helps the mental health lots thinking we gonna lose bad. Cuz I don’t want to drive myself crazy cuz our sports team sucks. They don’t seem to care so honestly why should we? Minute the game is over, fans losing their minds meanwhile the guys are all out shaking hands with their opponents seemingly forgetting they lost. Pisses me off seeing these guys with big smiles after they just lost. 

Edited June 30 by Goalie

[wbbfan]

18 minutes ago, Goalie said:

All I know. You can’t take this **** to seriously. Can’t base happiness on sports teams. I go in to games this year expecting to be blown out. It helps the mental health lots thinking we gonna lose bad. Cuz I don’t want to drive myself crazy cuz our sports team sucks. They don’t seem to care so honestly why should we? Minute the game is over, fans losing their minds meanwhile the guys are all out shaking hands with their opponents seemingly forgetting they lost. Pisses me off seeing these guys with big smiles after they just lost. 

Agree with all of that. Going to be interesting fan appreciation day this year lol 

[Goalie]

2 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

Agree with all of that. Going to be interesting fan appreciation day this year lol 

Most fans aren’t on this site. We are the vocal minority group of fans. Most fans don’t take it as seriously as ppl on here do. It’s just entertainment to them not life and death.  I think my parents are the average fan. They watch. They get pissed off while watching but the moment it’s over they switch the channel and move on. 

Edited June 30 by Goalie

[Tracker]

1 hour ago, wbbfan said:

Teams are playing heavy nose packages against us, twisting and stunting across the nose of kola. 
 This has created 90+ percent of our problems imo. 
 It’s the job of the centre to adjust protection, communicate pre snap reads and post snap to manage exchanges on twists stunts etc. I see considerable frustration from the guards, and even Brady on kolas poor communication and execution. 
 Centre is like S, mlber, and qb in that it’s a primary group leader. It comes with a lot of responsibility out side of individual production. Most centres in this league are undersized and don’t handle and import nose tackle well. Kola is significantly worse than the rest at this, but his failure at the finer points of being a centre is what really kills kola. 
 

Our whole ol has not been able to get off initial blocks and get down field to the second level this year. This really limits our gaps for Brady. 
 Normally in a 5 on 4 alignment you only get 1 guy to the second level with our izr/tite scheme. The play side guard and tackle combo block, and alignment dictates who goes to the second level. Basic rule of thumb is play side, who ever has they heads up or in their gap gets the help and the other player skips to the second level. 
 We use a heavy set a good bit to creat a 6 on 4 where we can get two guys to the second level. This is general eli at te on the right side. In previous years very frequently the end would be over the edge meaning eli takes the man and hardrick was the guy to go to the second level. 
 

At current because we see a lot of nose tackle play and kola can’t handle really any dl one on one the guards aren’t getting to the second level. This also means we have a lopsided dl alignment most of the time where a dt is on a guards out shoulder crossing his face and going to the a gap. That makes it hard for the second guard to get much done. It’s hard to turn a dt or stone wall him when he crosses you. 
 

Dobson certainly isn’t where I want to see him yet, but tbh the only ni guard I’ve seen get it that point that fast in their first year starting is desjarlais. I think Dobson is still adjusting to his new physique as well, he was super athletic but rather pot bellied and about 30-40lbs over when he left college. We’ve seen a few guys go through that. Eli and gray struggled a lot at guard last year next to kola too. 
 

Bryant is the ageless wonder for sure. I don’t see him getting the chances to cruise like we used to, like every one else, but he shows no signs of slowing down. He was pissed last night too. 
 

Lofton can handle his man when heads up. Still struggles with speed off the edge but our inside is soo bad teams aren’t strategizing to beat the edge, no need when they can mash us up the middle fast. I’ve got doubts about him, but I wouldn’t trade him for hardrick currently especially with that contract. 
 

Dobsons best comparison imo is actually wallace, but it doesn’t help with projection for Dobson.  Athletic, but over weight big frame ncaa linemen, Wallace is bigger for sure, and softer build but he looked better in pre season. Wallace could pass Dobson in camp next year at this rate. 
 

We played a lot of heavy set early in last nights game. And the whole game any time eli came on, he was making calls which helped his side and edge. I’ve never seen a guy take over calls while the C still tries like that lol. 

Agreed that our O-line woes begin with Kolankowski, but I also think it impacts Neufeld the most because he has to baby-sit Lofton, at least until Lofton gets up to speed. I cannot think of any rational reason that Eli is not our starting center. That sort of thing infuriates knowledgeable fans and will cost O'Shea his tenure here.

[wbbfan]

13 minutes ago, Goalie said:

Most fans aren’t on this site. We are the vocal minority group of fans. Most fans don’t take it as seriously as ppl on here do. It’s just entertainment to them not life and death.  I think my parents are the average fan. They watch. They get pissed off while watching but the moment it’s over they switch the channel and move on. 

That’s true, but the casual fans I know aren’t happy with the performance either. The people who go to fan day are a mix. I saw lots of people asking Harris about his suspension and all kinds of stuff. 
 

 

[SpeedFlex27]

48 minutes ago, Goalie said:

All I know. You can’t take this **** to seriously. Can’t base happiness on sports teams. I go in to games this year expecting to be blown out. It helps the mental health lots thinking we gonna lose bad. Cuz I don’t want to drive myself crazy cuz our sports team sucks. They don’t seem to care so honestly why should we? Minute the game is over, fans losing their minds meanwhile the guys are all out shaking hands with their opponents seemingly forgetting they lost. Pisses me off seeing these guys with big smiles after they just lost. 

Well, you keep doing you & no one will care.

19 minutes ago, Tracker said:

Agreed that our O-line woes begin with Kolankowski, but I also think it impacts Neufeld the most because he has to baby-sit Lofton, at least until Lofton gets up to speed. I cannot think of any rational reason that Eli is not our starting center. That sort of thing infuriates knowledgeable fans and will cost O'Shea his tenure here.

I'm beginning to think that Walters is agreeing to O'Shea's personnel choices.

[Tracker]

19 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Well, you keep doing you & no one will care.

I'm beginning to think that Walters is agreeing to O'Shea's personnel choices.

The tail could be wagging the dog.

[Booch]

10 minutes ago, Tracker said:

The tail could be wagging the dog.

He is obviously listening to Osh's recommendations tho...and I don't think Osh uses the right factors to justify his assessments.

Time for Walter's now to over rule...You can bet your life the discussions were had...ZC or Dru Brown and Osh pushed and said ZC is the guy...and I sure that happened on many players...and now it's killing us. 

Crappy part...isn't ZC garuanteed a big amount for 2025? That's gonna totally hamstring us next yr and basically ensure he's back..

[JohnnyAbonny]

2 hours ago, wbbfan said:

Teams are playing heavy nose packages against us, twisting and stunting across the nose of kola. 
 This has created 90+ percent of our problems imo. 
 It’s the job of the centre to adjust protection, communicate pre snap reads and post snap to manage exchanges on twists stunts etc. I see considerable frustration from the guards, and even Brady on kolas poor communication and execution. 
 Centre is like S, mlber, and qb in that it’s a primary group leader. It comes with a lot of responsibility out side of individual production. Most centres in this league are undersized and don’t handle and import nose tackle well. Kola is significantly worse than the rest at this, but his failure at the finer points of being a centre is what really kills kola. 
 

Our whole ol has not been able to get off initial blocks and get down field to the second level this year. This really limits our gaps for Brady. 
 Normally in a 5 on 4 alignment you only get 1 guy to the second level with our izr/tite scheme. The play side guard and tackle combo block, and alignment dictates who goes to the second level. Basic rule of thumb is play side, who ever has they heads up or in their gap gets the help and the other player skips to the second level. 
 We use a heavy set a good bit to creat a 6 on 4 where we can get two guys to the second level. This is general eli at te on the right side. In previous years very frequently the end would be over the edge meaning eli takes the man and hardrick was the guy to go to the second level. 
 

At current because we see a lot of nose tackle play and kola can’t handle really any dl one on one the guards aren’t getting to the second level. This also means we have a lopsided dl alignment most of the time where a dt is on a guards out shoulder crossing his face and going to the a gap. That makes it hard for the second guard to get much done. It’s hard to turn a dt or stone wall him when he crosses you. 
 

Dobson certainly isn’t where I want to see him yet, but tbh the only ni guard I’ve seen get it that point that fast in their first year starting is desjarlais. I think Dobson is still adjusting to his new physique as well, he was super athletic but rather pot bellied and about 30-40lbs over when he left college. We’ve seen a few guys go through that. Eli and gray struggled a lot at guard last year next to kola too. 
 

Bryant is the ageless wonder for sure. I don’t see him getting the chances to cruise like we used to, like every one else, but he shows no signs of slowing down. He was pissed last night too. 
 

Lofton can handle his man when heads up. Still struggles with speed off the edge but our inside is soo bad teams aren’t strategizing to beat the edge, no need when they can mash us up the middle fast. I’ve got doubts about him, but I wouldn’t trade him for hardrick currently especially with that contract. 
 

Dobsons best comparison imo is actually wallace, but it doesn’t help with projection for Dobson.  Athletic, but over weight big frame ncaa linemen, Wallace is bigger for sure, and softer build but he looked better in pre season. Wallace could pass Dobson in camp next year at this rate. 
 

We played a lot of heavy set early in last nights game. And the whole game any time eli came on, he was making calls which helped his side and edge. I’ve never seen a guy take over calls while the C still tries like that lol. 

This is a really well thought out, detailed write-up. For real, thanks man 

[Booch]

3 minutes ago, JohnnyAbonny said:

This is a really well thought out, detailed write-up. For real, thanks man 

Yup..and it's so obvious too..I can see Kolo makes bad calls too...there was a reason he was on the street for 2 yrs before we grabbed him

[JohnnyAbonny]

2 minutes ago, Booch said:

Yup..and it's so obvious too..I can see Kolo makes bad calls too...there was a reason he was on the street for 2 yrs before we grabbed him

Even if he was making the right calls, he appears to really not have the physical tools to be a good center. 

The fact that Eli is around makes it the most baffling of all MOS decisions to me. 

There’s no excuse, it has to be stubbornness at this point. There’s just no other valid reason. 

[bigg jay]

31 minutes ago, Booch said:

Crappy part...isn't ZC garuanteed a big amount for 2025? That's gonna totally hamstring us next yr and basically ensure he's back..

Yep, 225 or 250k IIRC.

[JohnnyAbonny]

28 minutes ago, Booch said:

He is obviously listening to Osh's recommendations tho...and I don't think Osh uses the right factors to justify his assessments.

Time for Walter's now to over rule...You can bet your life the discussions were had...ZC or Dru Brown and Osh pushed and said ZC is the guy...and I sure that happened on many players...and now it's killing us. 

Crappy part...isn't ZC garuanteed a big amount for 2025? That's gonna totally hamstring us next yr and basically ensure he's back..

See, to me that’s as much on Walters then. There’s a fine line between listening to your people, and letting them talk you out of making the right choices.

I’d give him way more rope than MOS right now but Walters isn’t blameless either.
He’s been around the league long enough to know better than to let that many key guys on the roster age out of their prime at once. 
 

There were rumblings of a rift before Walters signed his latest deal. Makes you wonder..

[Booch]

1 minute ago, bigg jay said:

Yep, 225 or 250k IIRC.

Ouch

[JohnnyAbonny]

Just now, bigg jay said:

Yep, 225 or 250k IIRC.

If that’s the case, the best scenario is he retires after this year

[bigg jay]

Just now, JohnnyAbonny said:

If that’s the case, the best scenario is he retires after this year

Or trade but I don't see anyone going for that based on recent performance.

[Booch]

1 minute ago, JohnnyAbonny said:

See, to me that’s as much on Walters then. There’s a fine line between listening to your people, and letting them talk you out of making the right choices.

I’d give him way more rope than MOS right now but Walters isn’t blameless either.
He’s been around the league long enough to know better than to let that many key guys on the roster age out of their prime at once. 
 

There were rumblings of a rift before Walters signed his latest deal. Makes you wonder..

I think for most part you as GM should trust in your HC making the right decisions...you don't want a meddling G.M for most part...but I think now...or would hope ongoing the dynamics are going to be different...and I heard a rift too...like months of no talking...which is odd

[JohnnyAbonny]

Just now, bigg jay said:

Or trade but I don't see anyone going for that based on recent performance.

Yeah, I don’t see it now either. The time for that was 6 months ago. 

[wbbfan]

7 minutes ago, bigg jay said:

Or trade but I don't see anyone going for that based on recent performance.

I would think so buuuut… the cfl is severely lacking in qb talent. And teams are always willing to gamble on has beens. See harris. 
 In the off season we would’ve gotten a handsome asset package. Now, probably a mid to late pick and a neg lister. Still that’s better than the alternative. 
 Maybe Toronto? Maybe back to Sask lol. Ham if blm goes down? Ott cus lol? 

[JohnnyAbonny]

1 minute ago, Booch said:

I think for most part you as GM should trust in your HC making the right decisions...you don't want a meddling G.M for most part...but I think now...or would hope ongoing the dynamics are going to be different...and I heard a rift too...like months of no talking...which is odd

For the most part I’d agree, but I mean at a certain point someone has to be the tough boss when it comes to letting vets move on. 

It’s been clear since day 1, O’Shea was never going to be that guy. Knowing this, I believe Walters could have done a little more earlier to prevent what’s happening now. 

O’Shea or not, Thomas even being offered a camp invite, for one example is a huge fail. Other little things too. Not being able to find a decent punter for 2 years.. drafting Anthony Bennett in the first round. Not fireable, just a little troubling. 
 

Like I said, some of it is on Walters imo, but not the lions share of the blame at all. 

[JohnnyAbonny]

18 minutes ago, Booch said:

I think for most part you as GM should trust in your HC making the right decisions...you don't want a meddling G.M for most part...but I think now...or would hope ongoing the dynamics are going to be different...and I heard a rift too...like months of no talking...which is odd

Yeah I’d actually heard that from a couple different places, actually going back to when AH left. Didn’t think much of it at the time but in hindsight maybe there was something to it..

Edited July 1 by JohnnyAbonny

[17to85]

21 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

I would think so buuuut… the cfl is severely lacking in qb talent. And teams are always willing to gamble on has beens. See harris. 
 In the off season we would’ve gotten a handsome asset package. Now, probably a mid to late pick and a neg lister. Still that’s better than the alternative. 
 Maybe Toronto? Maybe back to Sask lol. Ham if blm goes down? Ott cus lol? 

If the Bombers were trading collaros multiple teams would be interested. I mean God Trevor Harris is still seen by one team as a viable starter, and busted shoulder BLM. 

[wbbfan]

4 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

If the Bombers were trading collaros multiple teams would be interested. I mean God Trevor Harris is still seen by one team as a viable starter, and busted shoulder BLM. 

I could see it. I don’t think we’d get an amazing return but we’d get some thing and not have to eat that cap hit. 

[Goalie]

I dunno. I think he’s close to if not already a little bit of chicken fried. 
 

8 of 12. 55 yards last night. That’s not good.