3 stars turds and maybe a glimmer of hope

[Fatty Liver]

6 minutes ago, WinnipegGordo said:

This is from 3DownNation on May 7th.  He reworded his contract on June 3rd but no one reported the details:

Zach Collaros, Winnipeg Blue Bombers (A)

Hard money: $600,000
Maximum value: $600,000

The two-time CFL Most Outstanding Player collected a $300,000 off-season roster bonus on January 15 and makes the rest of his money for 2024 in the form of a $286,200 base salary and $13,800 in housing. The 35-year-old is currently in the second year of a three-year extension he signed partway through the 2022 season, which ties him to the Manitoba capital through 2025.

 

 

Zach's contract was restructured but not reduced due to underperforming like some other QB have been forced to accept, such as T. harris when he went to Mtl. from Edm.  Zach is likely headed for a steep reduction in pay next season for this years performance,  but if I was Walters I'd think long and hard about hitching my wagon to Zach even at a reduced cost, paying him less isn't going to miraculously make him a better QB.  He's got about 6 more games to prove he still has the power of victory flowing through his veins.

[wbbfan]

20 minutes ago, WinnipegGordo said:

This is from 3DownNation on May 7th.  He reworded his contract on June 3rd but no one reported the details:

Zach Collaros, Winnipeg Blue Bombers (A)

Hard money: $600,000
Maximum value: $600,000

The two-time CFL Most Outstanding Player collected a $300,000 off-season roster bonus on January 15 and makes the rest of his money for 2024 in the form of a $286,200 base salary and $13,800 in housing. The 35-year-old is currently in the second year of a three-year extension he signed partway through the 2022 season, which ties him to the Manitoba capital through 2025.

 

 

https://3downnation.com/2023/04/17/the-cfls-15-highest-paid-quarterbacks-for-2023-season/
 

they copy pasted the info from last years article, and doesn’t include the restructure last year or this year. 

6 minutes ago, Fatty Liver said:

Zach's contract was restructured but not reduced due to underperforming like some other QB have been forced to accept, such as T. harris when he went to Mtl. from Edm.  Zach is likely headed for a steep reduction in pay next season for this years performance,  but if I was Walters I'd think long and hard about hitching my wagon to Zach even at a reduced cost, paying him less isn't going to miraculously make him a better QB.  He's got about 6 more games to prove he still has the power of victory flowing through his veins.

Yep, and that’s if he wants to play through struggle and likely be on the bench. I really don’t think he will want that. 

[Fatty Liver]

5 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

https://3downnation.com/2023/04/17/the-cfls-15-highest-paid-quarterbacks-for-2023-season/
 

they copy pasted the info from last years article, and doesn’t include the restructure last year or this year. 

Yep, and that’s if he wants to play through struggle and likely be on the bench. I really don’t think he will want that. 

The whole team rested on their laurels, even the veteran players have yet to accept that a multitude of teams have surpassed them in ability.  They're still in denial that they are being outplayed and think it's somehow all going to fall into place one of these days.  Staying on top is so difficult to balance, it's pretty much impossible.

[JohnnyAbonny]

12 minutes ago, Fatty Liver said:

The whole team rested on their laurels, even the veteran players have yet to accept that a multitude of teams have surpassed them in ability.  They're still in denial that they are being outplayed and think it's somehow all going to fall into place one of these days.  Staying on top is so difficult to balance, it's pretty much impossible.

It’s possible but it has to be over 2 generations of QB’s, and it requires a lot of tough cuts when needed.
 Calgary did it, from 92-early 00’s and again from more or less 08-18

Montreal stayed consistently good-great from their rebirth through the mid-2010s. I mean, having a generational QB takes a bit of luck too, but they built great teams around him for a good 15 years. 

[TBURGESS]

1 hour ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

Oliviera has barely played this season.

True, but that's not the reason the Collaros is playing badly. Even when we get ahead of the sticks with a 5+ yard first down, we aren't converting on 2nd down at a similar rate to last year. 

[17to85]

2 hours ago, TBURGESS said:

I don't disagree that Brady O was a huge part of our offence last year, but that doesn't mean he's responsible for Collaros' bad start to this season. 

No he's just not really able to carry the offense this year so collaros has to do it. It prevented people from seeing how far collaros had fallen last season. Or you still going to pretend you don't understand?

[Mark H.]

44 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

No he's just not really able to carry the offense this year so collaros has to do it. It prevented people from seeing how far collaros had fallen last season. Or you still going to pretend you don't understand?

Yes and yes and yes.

[Slimy Sculpin]

2 hours ago, 17to85 said:

No he's just not really able to carry the offense this year so collaros has to do it. It prevented people from seeing how far collaros had fallen last season. Or you still going to pretend you don't understand?

I think the TB understands. He's just being TB. I'm OK with that as he can be blunt but he's often on the mark. Look, this team isn't going to turn it around until they get their O-line figured out and that starts with getting a better centre. Based on what I've seen, Kolankowski doesn't have the size/strength and the mental acuity to handle the spot. Just my opinion.

[TBURGESS]

15 hours ago, 17to85 said:

No he's just not really able to carry the offense this year so collaros has to do it. It prevented people from seeing how far collaros had fallen last season. Or you still going to pretend you don't understand?

I understand your theory. I don't agree with it. Collaros was in the MOP discussion until late in the season last year. 

[Arnold_Palmer]

1 minute ago, TBURGESS said:

I understand your theory. I don't agree with it. Collaros was in the MOP discussion until late in the season last year. 

True I don’t think he “fell” last season but the cracks were definitely there. That and a noticeable decline in the quality of the offensive line which has only been miles worse this season. 

[3rdand1.5]

IMO it's not on or two things...there is no switch this one player, do this one play and we improve situation on offence.

My two cents;

Lack of run game-did Brady and Buck/Osh get into a disagreement...what did Brady do that prevented him from being ready to start the season.....

O-line- have not been good enough....but partly due to lack of a run game and IMO questionably play calling

Play calling-we have guys out, guys with certain high level skills...and I get "next man up" but the next man up doesn't have the same skills, why play to the injured guys talents still.....adapt to what you have and can do well

Injuries-yes they affected us..I think both physically and mentally

QB play...Zach is in a funk....is it prep. is it stubbornness to refuse to even try new guys, is it the talent around him isn't good enough...Is Buck not evolving with the changes Streveler settled in with the same group around him and at least made "some" plays...hell our first passing TD even..

Roster management...this topic has been discussed to death on here but are the guys we have good enough....are some simple too old and slow....and are the best mix of experience and talent being used....

 

[17to85]

44 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

I understand your theory. I don't agree with it. Collaros was in the MOP discussion until late in the season last year. 

He was... but Oliveira passed him and if Oliveira wasn't going the offense was ****. Collaros had these same issues last year.  He didn't get worse over the offseason, the team around him did which is why the perception is he suddenly is washed up. Hence my statement,  Brady Oliveira prevented people from seeing these problems with collaros last year. 

If he had value in the offseason he still has value now to other teams. 

[Brandon]

At some point a great veteran QB reaches a point where he just cant do it week in and week out anymore.   It appears that he has reached this point and right now he is a great veteran back up QB.   I'd give him 2 weeks more maximum and at that point you move forward with Strev and cut Zach in the off season because of the big contract.  

[Goalie]

Hopefully Zach just retires. It’s actually sad seeing him like this. Same with bighill and Alexander. Once great players who were impact players all declining rapidly at the exact same time. They aren’t the only ones either. Neufeld is done also. Kolo never great but he’s been awful. Jake Thomas getting reps like he’s prime Doug brown. It’s just really sad. I think there’s a point where Walters and Wade will have to step in and make the easy decisions that O’Shea couldn’t make. I wonder if he’s given an ultimatum like either a vet or 2 go or you go if he decides to go instead. I dunno. I feel O’Shea doesn’t believe the vets are the problem 

the first step in fixing any problem Is admitting there is a problem. Bombers aren’t there yet. They not at that point. They don’t think there are problems. Until they admit there is, nothing changes. 

Edited July 2 by Goalie

[3rdand1.5]

IF we decide to move on from Zach...which I would guess is very unlikely, I believe that a few more injuries across the league and a few more difficult games from him a new team, may be the best option. Ther league is very tight on starters, he still has a hell of a resume and I believe we could trade him to a potential suitor in a few weeks should we desire to.

 

I am skeptical anything changes this year though

[Goalie]

Problem with trading Zach to a team, Zach sucks in the playoffs. His numbers are terrible. I’m sure every team knows this also. 

[BaconNBigBlue]

Time to get back to basics.  Quick outs for 5+ yards.  Intermediate routes that get you between 10-20 yards.  Stop the bombs for 25+ yards.  Slow and steady wins the race.  Flash looks great, but it hasn't produced much this year.  A slow and steady march down the field eats the clock and produces results.

 

[Mark H.]

6 minutes ago, BaconNBigBlue said:

Time to get back to basics.  Quick outs for 5+ yards.  Intermediate routes that get you between 10-20 yards.  Stop the bombs for 25+ yards.  Slow and steady wins the race.  Flash looks great, but it hasn't produced much this year.  A slow and steady march down the field eats the clock and produces results.

 

Except...we have a QB who doesn't play that way.

[Booch]

19 minutes ago, Mark H. said:

Except...we have a QB who doesn't play that way.

our backup would....hmmmmmm

[17to85]

You don't want to take away bombs either, in fact that was a missing element from Saturday almost entirely. What you want is a nice balanced offense that forces a team to defend every part of the field. We used to have that, don't really anymore 

[Goalie]

The other thing. Why is Oliviera only getting 10 carries a game. Yeah I get he wasn’t great against Calgary but still… yes our line but they should be better at run blocking, they are maulers. I’d consider going 6 OL 90 percent of the game and dunking and dinking like Matt nichols 20 times a game and running it 30 times plus. Brady. Smith. Augustine demski  Kase and Johnson can all be involved. Buck to busy designing 3 yard passes to fullbacks tho. Play calling is crap 

Edited July 2 by Goalie

[17to85]

How can you run the ball when then offense can't stay on the field?

[Mark H.]

2 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

How can you run the ball when then offense can't stay on the field?

Is that a rhetorical question or a self fulfilling prophesy?

[wbbfan]

22 minutes ago, Goalie said:

The other thing. Why is Oliviera only getting 10 carries a game. Yeah I get he wasn’t great against Calgary but still… yes our line but they should be better at run blocking, they are maulers. I’d consider going 6 OL 90 percent of the game and dunking and dinking like Matt nichols 20 times a game and running it 30 times plus. Brady. Smith. Augustine demski  Kase and Johnson can all be involved. Buck to busy designing 3 yard passes to fullbacks tho. Play calling is crap 

 

11 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

How can you run the ball when then offense can't stay on the field?

Pretty much. The real question is why is our running scheme soo flat? Calgary took away inside gaps why keep rubbing izr none stop? Better run design would have us in 2nd and short more and take pressure off the pass game. When the dl is crashing inside leverage you run outside /wide zone let the d inside then crash on them for the edge and walk around them. We’ve only been using the jet motion on jet sweeps we haven’t been using it to create screens or pull the defense. Run jet motion to one side and delay oz/wz to the opposite side. That lets you start the sweep motion early pa the run and toss the screen, or fake sweep with a dive option, or you run mesh and take the short pass off the switch/pick. 
 

bucks use or our weapons is piss poor and amplifying Zach, and our ols issues. 

[Arnold_Palmer]

7 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

 

Pretty much. The real question is why is our running scheme soo flat? Calgary took away inside gaps why keep rubbing izr none stop? Better run design would have us in 2nd and short more and take pressure off the pass game. When the dl is crashing inside leverage you run outside /wide zone let the d inside then crash on them for the edge and walk around them. We’ve only been using the jet motion on jet sweeps we haven’t been using it to create screens or pull the defense. Run jet motion to one side and delay oz/wz to the opposite side. That lets you start the sweep motion early pa the run and toss the screen, or fake sweep with a dive option, or you run mesh and take the short pass off the switch/pick. 
 

bucks use or our weapons is piss poor and amplifying Zach, and our ols issues. 

Exactly. Almost always a run right down the middle. No creativity. Run down the middle on first down then suddenly its second and long. lol play calling has been awful.