GDT - Winnipeg Blue Bombers at Toronto Argonauts

[Colin Unger]

8 hours ago, 17to85 said:

Ehhh he still has iffy hands. His touchdown was uuuugggggllllyyyy. He's got potential for sure but he needs to catch the ball better. Right now he's 2 out of 8 good games.

I view it as 2 out of 3 elite games and he's doing it while he's the only really skilled receiver we are throwing out there. He'll be a real gem once Lawler. If i was other teams id be leaving Demski open right now begging for him to get the ball in his hands. 

Wilson at least recovers his own fumbles and has the skill to catch the ball he almost dropped on the rebound.  Its just rookie nerves.  What's the excuse of our veterans who keep giving the game away while Wilson saves them?

22 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Oh I'd like him better as the 4th receiver but hands are a big deal for a receiver to me and he's shaky catching the ball too often. I'm not ready to run him out of town, but until he doesn't juggle **** like that touchdown I reserve the right to be skeptical about how reliable he is.

Most of our best receivers were far worse as rookies or sitting on the practice roster. He's not his fault that he's the only receiver worth a damn we're fielding right now and he has to carry the offence. 

Not sure if many of you are old enough to vividly remember how inconsistent Milt was his first couple years. The touchdowns he dropped still haunt me. 

[17to85]

7 minutes ago, Colin Unger said:

Most of our best receivers were far worse as rookies or sitting on the practice roster. 

I don't agree with that... Lawler was a forgotten man in the nichols/lapo we can't throw more than 5 yards downfield offense, the second the change happened at qb he showed his stuff. Schoen never showed suspect hands and was a great route runner from the get go... demski has been who he is for a long time. Good player with a tendency to fumble because his ball security is lacking at times.

 

People want to get hyped on Wilson fine, but he still needs to show a better ability to catch the ball too. 

[Pete]

Wilson is a keeper, he's now showing the instincts and familiarity with Collaros to come back to the qb when Zac is scrambling. Hés our only receiver that's creating any separation.. I wouldn't be surprised if next year we decide to go with Wilson and choose between Schoen and Lawler. This year has shown us that you can't put all your salary into receivers and not on the oline and dline. Only way we keep Schoen and Lawler is if each takes a major cut and Demski renegotiates his contract.

 

[TBURGESS]

I don't know why folks are complaining about Wilson's catching ability. He caught the TD ball 3 times.

[17to85]

Just now, TBURGESS said:

I don't know why folks are complaining about Wilson's catching ability. He caught the TD ball 3 times.

Did we just forget all the other games? And he nearly gassed that td pass last night when he was wide ******* open and the qb dropped it right onto him. 

[Colin Unger]

3 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

I don't agree with that... Lawler was a forgotten man in the nichols/lapo we can't throw more than 5 yards downfield offense, the second the change happened at qb he showed his stuff. Schoen never showed suspect hands and was a great route runner from the get go... demski has been who he is for a long time. Good player with a tendency to fumble because his ball security is lacking at times.

 

People want to get hyped on Wilson fine, but he still needs to show a better ability to catch the ball too. 

We never had Demski as a rookie.  He had 3 years to develop and become a professional before coming here. Keep in mind Ontaria isn't a 26 year old rookie like Shemar Bridges in hamilton who spent considerable time on an NFL practice roster.  Ontaria is 24 and after college went to one NFL training camp and is here. 

Lawler was an NFL draft pick and spent and entire year on an NFL practice roster and then went to camp with the BC lions and spent most of his first year on an NFL practice roster.

Geroy Simon spent a full year on the practice roster before becoming a starter. He struggled as rookie with having short arms when trying to make contested catches. Needed time to get settled and not be intimidated by the professional game. 

Schoen would be one example that goes the other way. He did spent time with 4 NFL teams but was never on a practice roster for very long. Similar age when he came up here to Ontaria Wilson but Scheon is the exception rather than the rule. I think it goes without saying that Scheon was a more impressive rookie than Ontaria Wilson. 

Just now, 17to85 said:

Did we just forget all the other games? And he nearly gassed that td pass last night when he was wide ******* open and the qb dropped it right onto him. 

Why would we care about the other games? A raw rookie just getting his feet wet and then made a big play and his confidence started take off. What value do those early games have.   When I start a new job it takes some time to learn my responsibilities, get my feet wet, and confidence up.  But once it clicks why would i be worry about my performance on day one of the job?

The criticism before last night was that he only had one big game.  Now the evidence says he's not a one game wonder. I'm not against some degree of caution but I think its more than fair to be excited about the guy especially on a team with little to no excitement outside of Wilson right now.

[IC Khari]

13 hours ago, Alpaca said:

I’ve been an absolute diehard since mid 80’s but I’m out. I know it’s rider fanish to say but I’m not watching anymore more games with this regime/team. And ya I’ll gladly let that door hit me on the way out. Spank the f*CK outta me! Peace 

[Mike]

I just don’t understand why you’re pretending the only games that matter are the ones where he’s played well, Colin.

I like Wilson too but pump the brakes - he’s definitely had some shitty games

[Colin Unger]

6 minutes ago, Pete said:

Wilson is a keeper, he's now showing the instincts and familiarity with Collaros to come back to the qb when Zac is scrambling. Hés our only receiver that's creating any separation.. I wouldn't be surprised if next year we decide to go with Wilson and choose between Schoen and Lawler. This year has shown us that you can't put all your salary into receivers and not on the oline and dline. Only way we keep Schoen and Lawler is if each takes a major cut and Demski renegotiates his contract.

 

Ive been thinking that too. If Wilson continues to improve and puts up 1000 yards plus we would have to really consider trading one of Lawler or Schoen and spend the money elsewhere. Zach needs to take a paycut and also bring back Lapo to coach the offence.  He'd be more willing to use Streveler regularly in the offense and would be the right offensive co-ordinator for a future when Streveler gets a chance to be our starter. Draft an offensive lineman with a top 3 pick. Nuefeld retires Kolo cut. Free agent dollars spent on a fire breathing defensive end and offensive tackle ect. 

[Pete]

The only other team that spends as much on wr and qb is edmonton....see the similarities?

[Doublezero]

I'd be OK dealing Demski somewhere for O line help - if only it were possible. Never trusted Demski's poor ball security, whether it's giving a defender a gift on a pop-up ball or just downright fumbling because of his bad habit of carrying it high and loose. He just has not learned to secure the football.

[17to85]

15 minutes ago, Mike said:

I just don’t understand why you’re pretending the only games that matter are the ones where he’s played well, Colin.

I like Wilson too but pump the brakes - he’s definitely had some shitty games

Yeah this is all I'm saying, be excited about the potential,  but he's got some kinks to work out before he's compared to Geroy Simon. 

I like that he seems to be figuring it out, but he's got a ways to go. 

[Colin Unger]

 

Edited July 28 by Colin Unger

[JuranBoldenRules]

Fell in love with too many limited role players.

[TBURGESS]

30 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Did we just forget all the other games? And he nearly gassed that td pass last night when he was wide ******* open and the qb dropped it right onto him. 

If you re-read my comment you'll see that I was making fun of the fact that he had to re-catch the same ball 3 times to get the TD.

[JuranBoldenRules]

32 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Did we just forget all the other games? And he nearly gassed that td pass last night when he was wide ******* open and the qb dropped it right onto him. 

That play was a great example of his main issue.  He’s waiting on the ball, catching it with weak, low hands and absorbing it with his pads.  Recipe for a drop and makes YAC nearly impossible.  They need to teach him how to catch a football.

[Booch]

Interesting enough...the book on him before his CFL stint was very good hands and knack for crazy catches...his hands are not an issue..being a #1 guy tho as he is learning the Canadian game on the fly...and is still actively having to process things as he goes...is what's his learning curve..and even at that he's leaps and bounds ahead of where he was game 1 and 2

Him as a running mate with Lawler when back...Demski more back to his 3rd option role and the insertion of Whitehead ...and continued increased work for Clercius ....we will be just fine.

If ZC can spread it around and process what's going on as opposed to forcing things...we will be ok

[rebusrankin]

1 hour ago, Colin Unger said:

I view it as 2 out of 3 elite games and he's doing it while he's the only really skilled receiver we are throwing out there. He'll be a real gem once Lawler. If i was other teams id be leaving Demski open right now begging for him to get the ball in his hands. 

Wilson at least recovers his own fumbles and has the skill to catch the ball he almost dropped on the rebound.  Its just rookie nerves.  What's the excuse of our veterans who keep giving the game away while Wilson saves them?

Most of our best receivers were far worse as rookies or sitting on the practice roster. He's not his fault that he's the only receiver worth a damn we're fielding right now and he has to carry the offence. 

Not sure if many of you are old enough to vividly remember how inconsistent Milt was his first couple years. The touchdowns he dropped still haunt me. 

Milt has 25 receptions for 469 yards and 4 tds in 6 games as a rookie. 34 receptions for 613 yards and 6 tds in 11 games as a 2nd year before injury.  That's 17 games, 59 receptions, 1082 yards and 10 tds. Inconsistent my ass.

Schoen led the league in receiving as a rookie. 

Lawler was our leading receiver in 2019 which was his first year with us.

You're 100% wrong about everything you posted.

[Eternal optimist]

Not as flashy for sure, but i think Bailey would bring more to our O than Lucky could.

One could argue the difference maker would be Lucky's ability as KR/PR, but i doubt they would use him accordingly

[Slimy Sculpin]

Some thoughts about yesterday's game, in no particular order.

That's four fumbles with three of them lost from Demski this year. He gets paid relatively big $$s to not do that.

Castillo can blame the misses on the natural grass field.....kidding, sort of.

I don't know what to say about the O-line other than "Help!" Pass blocking is atrocious. Most of them must have graduated with straight As from matador school. I thought run blocking was OK especially when Eli was in. This guy should be starting C..

Wilson was pretty good and dramatic. Johnson should be given a bus ticket out of town.

I really like what Miller has done with the special teams after a slow start to the season. Early on they were giving up the sidelines which resulted in a few long returns by the opposition. His plan and some disciplined play looks good. They seem to have gotten on the same page as their punter, too. Case reminds me a bit of Paul Bennett....nothing flashy but good hands an goes forward. Good for cold weather and the playoffs. Oops, well, maybe not this year.

Buck Pierce is not having a good year with his play calling in critical situations.

Officiating has been terrible all year. The league should be embarrassed by it. Has any coach, player, TSN talking head called them out on it. As for the Command Centre, I think they spent most of their time eating popcorn. I was more than surprised that PI wasn't called on that INT TD return. I'm also thinking that the O-lines on all teams have suddenly learned to not hold. It's hard to believe how few holding penalties are being called this year.

The Argo's QB are not very good.

I'll leave it at that.

 

[Colin Unger]

20 minutes ago, rebusrankin said:

Milt has 25 receptions for 469 yards and 4 tds in 6 games as a rookie. 34 receptions for 613 yards and 6 tds in 11 games as a 2nd year before injury.  That's 17 games, 59 receptions, 1082 yards and 10 tds. Inconsistent my ass.

Schoen led the league in receiving as a rookie. 

Lawler was our leading receiver in 2019 which was his first year with us.

You're 100% wrong about everything you posted.

Not wrong at all.  I already acknowledge that Schoen was the outlier not disputing that.

Do you guys no remember the big drops milt had as a rookie?  I know he also made a lot of big plays. He was also not what would be considered a true rookie the way Wilson is today. He had played in actual NFL games. And Wilson's stats are not that different than Milt from early on. Even if Milt had no drops his rookie year the point I'm making that most of our top receivers didn't do it as a true rookie is still 100% valid. I was never making an argument that these other receivers didn't do more their first year with the bombers. I was arguing that most of our greats weren't thrust into action as true CFL rookies so you can't compare what they did in their first season as a bomber to Wilson. And had these guys been starting every game as true rookies some of them may very well have under performed Wilson. Again.. with Lawler he was an NFL draft pick and spent considerable time on NFL and CFL practice rosters. Had multiple nfl training camps and multiple cfl training camps before playing. 

Wilson is on pace for:
Receptions: 67.5
Yards: 1041.75
Touchdowns: 4.5

Sure the touchdown are low but when you consider the percentage of all TD's thrown by Zach that he's captured i don't think you can hold that against him.

I also want to add that im not comparing him to our greats because I think he's going to be one of them. Im comparing him because our greats are the highest standard i can compare him too and even most of these guys didn't get thrown out there as genuine rookies. 

Edited July 28 by Colin Unger

[rebusrankin]

1 hour ago, Colin Unger said:

Not wrong at all.  I already acknowledge that Schoen was the outlier not disputing that.

Do you guys no remember the big drops milt had as a rookie?  I know he also made a lot of big plays. He was also not what would be considered a true rookie the way Wilson is today. He had played in actual NFL games. And Wilson's stats are not that different than Milt from early on. Even if Milt had no drops his rookie year the point I'm making that most of our top receivers didn't do it as a true rookie is still 100% valid. I was never making an argument that these other receivers didn't do more their first year with the bombers. I was arguing that most of our greats weren't thrust into action as true CFL rookies so you can't compare what they did in their first season as a bomber to Wilson. And had these guys been starting every game as true rookies some of them may very well have under performed Wilson. Again.. with Lawler he was an NFL draft pick and spent considerable time on NFL and CFL practice rosters. Had multiple nfl training camps and multiple cfl training camps before playing. 

Wilson is on pace for:
Receptions: 67.5
Yards: 1041.75
Touchdowns: 4.5

Sure the touchdown are low but when you consider the percentage of all TD's thrown by Zach that he's captured i don't think you can hold that against him.

I also want to add that im not comparing him to our greats because I think he's going to be one of them. Im comparing him because our greats are the highest standard i can compare him too and even most of these guys didn't get thrown out there as genuine rookies. 

Wilson spent time in NFL camps too. Your point was that all these guys struggled and you're wrong. 

[Stickem]

40 minutes ago, Booch said:

 

Him as a running mate with Lawler when back...Demski more back to his 3rd option role and the insertion of Whitehead ...and continued increased work for Clercius ....we will be just fine.

If ZC can spread it around and process what's going on as opposed to forcing things...we will be ok

AND I hope we can fit Bailey into the mix..............now we're talking solid

[Tracker]

15 hours ago, deepsixemtoboyd said:

I dunno, man. Missed 2 pressure kicks, end of half and again in OT. Not pro level. No excuses. huge contribution to the loss.

Castillo has been affected by the malaise the rest of the team is suffering from, and I an not kidding. 

[Tracker]

13 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

We'll be fined up to $100,000 & lose some draft picks. Not worth it. Miller has to get involved. Put the heat on Osh to get going. 

I think we are past the point where tinkering with the starting roster will fix things. O'Shea looks to be the roadblock and nothing will change so long as he is head coach. If pushed/threatened by Walters and/or Miller, he will, in all likelihood, go through the motions, but the end result will be the same. Sometimes an excision is the best answer for an inert mass.

Edited July 28 by Tracker