GDT - Winnipeg Blue Bombers at Toronto Argonauts

[GCn20]

  On 2024-08-01 at 1:31 AM, Goalie said:

Neufeld is cooked. Has been since week 1 and prob prior. I feel him on the 6 game is there way of cutting him but not really cutting him. 

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Our interior OL has been a gong show, all 3 of them at various times and sometimes all at the same time. I don't know if it's cohesion, or talent, but something's gotta give. Our receiver injuries just don't allow for that kind of margin for error.

[Noeller]

  On 2024-08-01 at 7:44 PM, GCn20 said:

Our interior OL has been a gong show, all 3 of them at various times and sometimes all at the same time. I don't know if it's cohesion, or talent, but something's gotta give. Our receiver injuries just don't allow for that kind of margin for error.

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More and more I'm believing it's this lack of protection and lack of viable receiving options that is making ZC8 look worse than he is. I think Collaros still has game but needs a MUCH better team around him. 

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

  On 2024-08-01 at 7:48 PM, Noeller said:

More and more I'm believing it's this lack of protection and lack of viable receiving options that is making ZC8 look worse than he is. I think Collaros still has game but needs a MUCH better team around him. 

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[Noeller]

Ha ha all I'm saying is there's a bit of a Negativity Echo Chamber here that maybe makes things seem worse than they actually are. Or at least maybe make things seem less accurate than they are. I'm not 100% convinced that Zach is cooked.

[JCon]

  On 2024-08-01 at 7:48 PM, Noeller said:

More and more I'm believing it's this lack of protection and lack of viable receiving options that is making ZC8 look worse than he is. I think Collaros still has game but needs a MUCH better team around him. 

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And, how do we explain the second half of each of the past two seasons? He lost it in 2022 and we've covered it up with outstanding receivers and the league's best RB. 

Is he as bad as he looks? Probably not, but I don't think he would look much better behind the 2019 Oline now. 

[Noeller]

  On 2024-08-01 at 8:16 PM, JCon said:

And, how do we explain the second half of each of the past two seasons? He lost it in 2022 and we've covered it up with outstanding receivers and the league's best RB. 

Is he as bad as he looks? Probably not, but I don't think he would look much better behind the 2019 Oline now. 

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I disagree with your last line, but I love and respect you Jeff so I'll just say that. Ha ha ha.

[blue85gold]

  On 2024-08-01 at 7:48 PM, Noeller said:

More and more I'm believing it's this lack of protection and lack of viable receiving options that is making ZC8 look worse than he is. I think Collaros still has game but needs a MUCH better team around him. 

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This. The pressure up the middle has been awful. 

[Booch]

  On 2024-08-01 at 9:30 PM, blue85gold said:

This. The pressure up the middle has been awful. 

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he definately cant walk up the pocket and let er rip...part of his under throw problems....possibly....tho I do think he is also on the downswing...some of his processing what's going on even with no pressure isn't on point

Some of his adlib throws too aren't what they used to be...age is a mutha effer

Osh...and some media rave about his work and tosses in practice.....which is kinda whatev's and the coaches should know that....when you know where u are going...no threat of getting your bean knocked off your pole and things basically going as scripted....Thats where I have issue with how we evaluate talent and who is capable...

Edited August 1, 2024 by Booch

[Noeller]

  On 2024-08-01 at 9:35 PM, Booch said:

When you know where u are going...no threat of getting your bean knocked off your pole and things basically going as scripted..

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But what if he had pass protection and receivers who knew where they were supps to be....? Like we did the past couple years. What it it's not Zach but the pieces around him....?

[blue85gold]

  On 2024-08-01 at 9:35 PM, Booch said:

he definately cant walk up the pocket and let er rip...part of his under throw problems....possibly....tho I do think he is also on the downswing...some of his processing what's going on even with no pressure isn't on point

Some of his adlib throws too aren't what they used to be...age is a mutha effer

Osh...and some media rave about his work and tosses in practice.....which is kinda whatev's and the coaches should know that....when you know where u are going...no threat of getting your bean knocked off your pole and things basically going as scripted....Thats where I have issue with how we evaluate talent and who is capable...

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Definitely agree he’s on the downswing, just don’t think he’s totally at the bottom. Age is undefeated. 

This season has been the worst case scenario to make up for that downswing. Top receivers hurt and oline is garbage. 

[17to85]

  On 2024-08-01 at 9:42 PM, Noeller said:

But what if he had pass protection and receivers who knew where they were supps to be....? Like we did the past couple years. What it it's not Zach but the pieces around him....?

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When you're paid like collaros is it hurts the rest of the team so you better be able to perform without some pieces in other areas.

[Noeller]

  On 2024-08-01 at 10:01 PM, blue85gold said:

Definitely agree he’s on the downswing, just don’t think he’s totally at the bottom. Age is undefeated. 

This season has been the worst case scenario to make up for that downswing. Top receivers hurt and oline is garbage. 

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Yeah I just don't think we can fully judge yet. Even last year where we saw the signs... It was a lot to do with the pieces around him.

  On 2024-08-01 at 10:04 PM, 17to85 said:

When you're paid like collaros is it hurts the rest of the team so you better be able to perform without some pieces in other areas.

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You know I get that... But I also don't think anyone could perform with what we are presenting/surrounding him with. 

[17to85]

  On 2024-08-01 at 10:04 PM, Noeller said:

But I also don't think anyone could perform with what we are presenting/surrounding him with. 

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Well let's find out if collaros struggles maybe.... don't get me wrong, if we get last week collaros all fine and dandy, but if we get the guy who has been there the early season let's see how much is him how much is the team.

[Booch]

  On 2024-08-01 at 10:04 PM, Noeller said:

Yeah I just don't think we can fully judge yet. Even last year where we saw the signs... It was a lot to do with the pieces around him.

You know I get that... But I also don't think anyone could perform with what we are presenting/surrounding him with. 

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Isn't that Just an excuse tho...have seen lots of players before play well with garbage surrounding them.

And at pro level regardless who is running out there with you ...you still can perform and make plays.

I don't think that the players around him are that atrocious that it's made him look like garbage...underthrows...totally missing...panic in pocket with no ability to make yards with legs..or avoid a sack by throwing it away...passes into double...triple coverage...that's not all related to guys around him...it's a good excuse/crutch tho

 

 

  On 2024-08-01 at 10:04 PM, Noeller said:

Yeah I just don't think we can fully judge yet. Even last year where we saw the signs... It was a lot to do with the pieces around him.

You know I get that... But I also don't think anyone could perform with what we are presenting/surrounding him with. 

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Strev got a win......

[blue85gold]

  On 2024-08-01 at 10:30 PM, Booch said:

Isn't that Just an excuse tho...have seen lots of players before play well with garbage surrounding them.

And at pro level regardless who is running out there with you ...you still can perform and make plays.

I don't think that the players around him are that atrocious that it's made him look like garbage...underthrows...totally missing...panic in pocket with no ability to make yards with legs..or avoid a sack by throwing it away...passes into double...triple coverage...that's not all related to guys around him...it's a good excuse/crutch tho

 

 

Strev got a win......

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You’ve seen lots of QBs play well with garbage oline and receivers? 

[Booch]

  On 2024-08-01 at 11:30 PM, blue85gold said:

You’ve seen lots of QBs play well with garbage oline and receivers? 

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yup....same with RB's play well with same garbage...WR play well with garbage QB's....it goes on and on

Heck even here..BO plays behind same O-line...Missed a game and is leading league in rushing....by that logic should he not be at bottom of league too?

Stegall...Played with crap most his career.....what he do?

When you are elite...you are elite and you produce...regardless...when you have lost your eliteness....and you are not buffered by elite talent everywhere....and aging....well.....what u get?...Performances that are not consistant anymore...and up and down like a hookers panties....Much like BA....his are down around his ankles for most part now...Biggie...his fell right off....and of late...and in pressure games last few yrs (Grey Cups) seems ZC has one leg out of his...until he strings 7..8..9 games together...puts team on his back and is the reason wins get pulled out of the fire....I will not change my opinion....

Edited August 1, 2024 by Booch

[TBURGESS]

Every time I see Collaros play I think: 

 

[blue85gold]

  On 2024-08-01 at 11:38 PM, Booch said:

yup....same with RB's play well with same garbage...WR play well with garbage QB's....it goes on and on

Heck even here..BO plays behind same O-line...Missed a game and is leading league in rushing....by that logic should he not be at bottom of league too?

Stegall...Played with crap most his career.....what he do?

When you are elite...you are elite and you produce...regardless...when you have lost your eliteness....and you are not buffered by elite talent everywhere....and aging....well.....what u get?...Performances that are not consistant anymore...and up and down like a hookers panties....Much like BA....his are down around his ankles for most part now...Biggie...his fell right off....and of late...and in pressure games last few yrs (Grey Cups) seems ZC has one leg out of his...until he strings 7..8..9 games together...puts team on his back and is the reason wins get pulled out of the fire....I will not change my opinion....

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ZC is definitely not elite anymore. No one in their right mind would argue that. I just don’t think he’s as done as people on here are saying. 
 

By the way you didn’t mention a single QB that excelled with a garbage online and receivers. Maybe some of the all time greats could do that at their peak. There’s no QB in the league now that can. 

[Booch]

  On 2024-08-01 at 11:44 PM, blue85gold said:

ZC is definitely not elite anymore. No one in their right mind would argue that. I just don’t think he’s as done as people on here are saying. 
 

By the way you didn’t mention a single QB that excelled with a garbage online and receivers. Maybe some of the all time greats could do that at their peak. There’s no QB in the league now that can. 

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exagerated....they are not all garbage...

I will add tho...coaching/roster/in game adaptations or lack thereof are not helping ZC either...so yeah it not all on him....but he aint what he was.....and it's obvious...and a lot is in his head now

Edited August 1, 2024 by Booch

[Noeller]

  On 2024-08-01 at 11:44 PM, blue85gold said:

ZC is definitely not elite anymore. No one in their right mind would argue that. 

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I am agnostic. 

[blue85gold]

  On 2024-08-01 at 11:45 PM, Booch said:

exagerated....they are not all garbage...

I will add tho...coaching/roster/in game adaptations or lack thereof are not helping ZC either...so yeah it not all on him....but he aint what he was.....and it's obvious...and a lot is in his head now

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Agree with you there. Lots of garbage to go around on this roster/coaching. 

[BigBlueFanatic]

Bomber home game, not surprised TSN runs a bunch of interviews and interest pieces on Lions players…. Even when no one had any business being on the same field as the Bombers it was always like this 🤦🏻‍♂️

Edit: oops sorry wrong gdt!

Edited August 2, 2024 by BigBlueFanatic
Derp

[Mike]

  On 2024-08-01 at 9:42 PM, Noeller said:

But what if he had pass protection and receivers who knew where they were supps to be....? Like we did the past couple years. What it it's not Zach but the pieces around him....?

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Then he’s not worth 600k. 
 

Watch him tonight. He can’t even make the safe, easy throws right now. They get there but they’re a touch off, they force these guys to break stride, come back away from the route, climb the ladder … it varies game to game but today as an example, he’s the one being bailed out by his receivers 

[Tracker]

VA is likely suffering from heat cramps. He will be sat out as he is doing nada so far.

[GCn20]

Look, it's one game but anyone suggesting that ZC wasn't very good tonight is being biased. He was as good as any QB could be under the circumstances. He's gotta keep it going though.

  On 2024-08-01 at 11:45 PM, Booch said:

exagerated....they are not all garbage...

I will add tho...coaching/roster/in game adaptations or lack thereof are not helping ZC either...so yeah it not all on him....but he aint what he was.....and it's obvious...and a lot is in his head now

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He was mentally slumping for sure. Looks like he might have turned the corner now.