2024 Banjo Bowl Talk

[Booch]

5 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Stats and a buck fifty won't buy you a cup of coffee. Just saying. You can trot out all the stats you want but when it comes to playoff football you can toss most of them out the window. Usually comes down to which team wants it more, and in November it's generally ugly football that wins.

when we have won in playoffs....and the cups...it was ground game....wearing teams out and defense and special teams...and it coincided with a good roster...last 2 losses...run game was decent but they keyed on it.....and we didnt have the QB production to pull us out of it....defense got wore down from poor rostering and lack of dline depth, and the ST didnt take a game over 

Our 2024 start to season reflected all that as well...and....as you saw we were 0-4 and 1-5 at one point....it's more than just coincidence....it's directly related

Even in 2021 we had some these issues, but we had the horses to over come it....now some those horses need to be put out to pasture to stud...or be sent to glue factory

[GCn20]

1 minute ago, Booch said:

when we have won in playoffs....and the cups...it was ground game....wearing teams out and defense and special teams...and it coincided with a good roster...last 2 losses...run game was decent but they keyed on it.....and we didnt have the QB production to pull us out of it....defense got wore down from poor rostering and lack of dline depth, and the ST didnt take a game over 

Our 2024 start to season reflected all that as well...and....as you saw we were 0-4 and 1-5 at one point....it's more than just coincidence....it's directly related

Even in 2021 we had some these issues, but we had the horses to over come it....now some those horses need to be put out to pasture to stud...or be sent to glue factory

Sure,,,but at the end of the day we just got out physicalled in both our GC losses. QB production in November is always going to less than stellar.

[Booch]

2 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Sure,,,but at the end of the day we just got out physicalled in both our GC losses. QB production in November is always going to less than stellar.

some times it is yeah....wont be in a dome tho

Outmuscled too is also a reflection of what you rostered...especially in one game where 4 guys shouldnt have even been on the field

[wbbfan]

45 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Stats and a buck fifty won't buy you a cup of coffee. Just saying. You can trot out all the stats you want but when it comes to playoff football you can toss most of them out the window. Usually comes down to which team wants it more, and in November it's generally ugly football that wins.

Dollar coffee at macdonalds, buck fifty and stats will buy you coffee most places, just saying. 
 How many QBs do you think he’s out played in our play off games? Did Phil pot or Fajardo put up reduced stats in last years grey cup?

You can disregard a stat in isolation, but when it’s backed up by that many games over several years and his precipitous drop off this year and moderate drop off last year, tossing the stats out the window is just burying your head in the sand. Not to mention when that stat line meshes almost perfectly with the grouping of his worst games in the regular season previously and all of this year. Fact is, the majority of our team played similarly in the play offs to how they did in the regular season. Just not zach. 

43 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Sure,,,but at the end of the day we just got out physicalled in both our GC losses. QB production in November is always going to less than stellar.

If that was the case how did Fajardo win gc mvp? Along with modern winners like blm twice, Mike Reilly, and Hank Burris? Those guys weren’t passing for 250 1 and 1 either. How did Chad Kelly come off the bench and slap us off a win vs Toronto? 

[wbbfan]

Cody Fajardo has 6 play off starts he’s put up 1497 8.6 8 and 8, plus 255 rush yards and 2 tds. 
 That’s 292 yards per play off start, 1.66 tds per game and 1.3 picks per. The stats just don’t support this concept that the passing league stops being a passing league in the play offs. Try and find another mop winning qb with similar play off numbers. 

[ShyGuy]

1 hour ago, wbbfan said:

Flat out wrong. I broke down Zack’s play off stats as a bomber after last years gc loss, I dug them back out for this. More picks than tds, barely 200 yards per game, more 2 and outs than tds and big plays combined. 19 our run game blew out Hamilton, 21 our D won the day. The last two we’ve had the ball in Zachs hands with a chance to win and came up short. That isn’t game management, it’s just poor play. The funny thing is, Zachs stats this year are going to be similar to his play off numbers here, but worse. Has he been in game manager mode all year? 

 

 

9 starts 6 tds 8 ints 1854 yards(206 yards per game) 144/209 (68.89%, 8.87 ypa) in a full season of his play off games he’d be on track for 12 tds 16 picks 3707 yards

 

I think there is some miscommunication here.

I meant game manager as a slur.

Unable (or unwilling) to push the ball down the field. Lots of check downs (as evidenced by the 8.87 ypa). What seems like a shortened playbook. 

Yes the cold will affect QB play and yes his receivers have been banged up, but the past 3 seasons he's gone from MOP level QBing in the regular season to something comparable to Cam Dukes or Shea Patterson from this season

[GCn20]

1 hour ago, wbbfan said:

Dollar coffee at macdonalds, buck fifty and stats will buy you coffee most places, just saying. 
 How many QBs do you think he’s out played in our play off games? Did Phil pot or Fajardo put up reduced stats in last years grey cup?

You can disregard a stat in isolation, but when it’s backed up by that many games over several years and his precipitous drop off this year and moderate drop off last year, tossing the stats out the window is just burying your head in the sand. Not to mention when that stat line meshes almost perfectly with the grouping of his worst games in the regular season previously and all of this year. Fact is, the majority of our team played similarly in the play offs to how they did in the regular season. Just not zach. 

If that was the case how did Fajardo win gc mvp? Along with modern winners like blm twice, Mike Reilly, and Hank Burris? Those guys weren’t passing for 250 1 and 1 either. How did Chad Kelly come off the bench and slap us off a win vs Toronto? 

Zach was 19/23 for 236 yards in the Grey Cup. Not incredible but not that bad either considering we had gone into the game with a run game first game plan. It wasn't our offence that let us down in last year's Grey Cup. Our defence folded like a cheap suit in the 4th Q.  We were in complete control of that game up to that point. Full marks to Cody for driving when he had too, but up until the last few minutes of the Grey Cup the guy had done nothing. Our defence, and some incredible plays and a bit of flukiness franklly, turned his stat column around in the 4th. Hall completely botched the 4th Q, and it literally cost him his job.

1 hour ago, wbbfan said:

Cody Fajardo has 6 play off starts he’s put up 1497 8.6 8 and 8, plus 255 rush yards and 2 tds. 
 That’s 292 yards per play off start, 1.66 tds per game and 1.3 picks per. The stats just don’t support this concept that the passing league stops being a passing league in the play offs. Try and find another mop winning qb with similar play off numbers. 

Find another playing from behind as often as he has. He came up big one game, but in all others he padded his stats in losing efforts.

2 hours ago, Booch said:

when we have won in playoffs....and the cups...it was ground game....wearing teams out and defense and special teams...and it coincided with a good roster...last 2 losses...run game was decent but they keyed on it.....and we didnt have the QB production to pull us out of it....defense got wore down from poor rostering and lack of dline depth, and the ST didnt take a game over 

Our 2024 start to season reflected all that as well...and....as you saw we were 0-4 and 1-5 at one point....it's more than just coincidence....it's directly related

Even in 2021 we had some these issues, but we had the horses to over come it....now some those horses need to be put out to pasture to stud...or be sent to glue factory

2023 was lost on a worn out defence. Our offence was fine. Also Philpot destroyed us on STs all game and really was the reason they even had a shot, and Grant was bloody awful PRing.

Edited September 4 by GCn20

[bearpants]

31 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

2023 was lost on a worn out defence. Our offence was fine.

cancel that comment... my mistake... made a comment referring to the 2022 game

Edited September 4 by bearpants

[Booch]

49 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Zach was 19/23 for 236 yards in the Grey Cup. Not incredible but not that bad either considering we had gone into the game with a run game first game plan. It wasn't our offence that let us down in last year's Grey Cup. Our defence folded like a cheap suit in the 4th Q.  We were in complete control of that game up to that point. Full marks to Cody for driving when he had too, but up until the last few minutes of the Grey Cup the guy had done nothing. Our defence, and some incredible plays and a bit of flukiness franklly, turned his stat column around in the 4th. Hall completely botched the 4th Q, and it literally cost him his job.

Find another playing from behind as often as he has. He came up big one game, but in all others he padded his stats in losing efforts.

2023 was lost on a worn out defence. Our offence was fine. Also Philpot destroyed us on STs all game and really was the reason they even had a shot, and Grant was bloody awful PRing.

Grant was not anywhere near healthy...and shame on us for not addressing that....has become a trend

And yup....worn out indeed...and playing with guys who shouldn't have been dressed...and taking off the vet DB for a high risk...not as high reward DB....And played with essentially 2 de's...as Bennettt was useless....and Hansen just didnt have it that yr...and i think hardly even got a rep....Too much Thomas...not enough Lawson.....yeah dead horse beating I know...but that should have culminated in a 4th straight cup win...we can slice and dice it any way we want...but in the end...our coaching killed us in both those Grey Cups...be it with poor schemes....poor roster configurations and playing guys who were hurt and useless...cause they were 1)favorite vets 2) bias of coach 3) poor roster/PR make up

Inexcusable especially 2 yrs in a row with same blunders....and if it was in the NFL there would have been a house cleaning of some sorts, regardless of "yeah but 4 straight cup appearances" 

I have seen some "learning" this yr tho...some...not enough tho...and I have a shitty feeling that some of the same ol same ol is gonna haunt us come playoffs again...hope I wrong

Edited September 4 by Booch

[Atomic]

I was just combing through some stats and noticed our second down conversion percentage is 42.9, which is 8th in the league. That's been killing us and it seemed especially bad last game.

[GCn20]

14 minutes ago, Booch said:

Grant was not anywhere near healthy...and shame on us for not addressing that....has become a trend

And yup....worn out indeed...and playing with guys who shouldn't have been dressed...and taking off the vet DB for a high risk...not as high reward DB....And played with essentially 2 de's...as Bennettt was useless....and Hansen just didnt have it that yr...and i think hardly even got a rep....Too much Thomas...not enough Lawson.....yeah dead horse beating I know...but that should have culminated in a 4th straight cup win...we can slice and dice it any way we want...but in the end...our coaching killed us in both those Grey Cups...be it with poor schemes....poor roster configurations and playing guys who were hurt and useless...cause they were 1)favorite vets 2) bias of coach 3) poor roster/PR make up

Inexcusable especially 2 yrs in a row with same blunders....and if it was in the NFL there would have been a house cleaning of some sorts, regardless of "yeah but 4 straight cup appearances" 

I have seen some "learning" this yr tho...some...not enough tho...and I have a shitty feeling that some of the same ol same ol is gonna haunt us come playoffs again...hope I wrong

Coaching was probably the main reason we lost in GC last year. No doubt about it. Very poorly coached game all around.

[Jpan85]

 

 

[17to85]

1 hour ago, GCn20 said:

Our offence was fine

No it wasn't.

[voodoochylde]

1 hour ago, Jpan85 said:

I don't know if that's a good thing.

Neufeld wasn't good to start the year and the combination of Neufeld and Lofton was absolutely horrible.  Things actually settled down a fair bit AFTER Neufeld went out. My sincere hope is that Bryant returns, Randolph kicks back inside and Neuf is that 6th / 7th offensive lineman. 

[Jpan85]

 

[Booch]

1 minute ago, voodoochylde said:

I don't know if that's a good thing.

Neufeld wasn't good to start the year and the combination of Neufeld and Lofton was absolutely horrible.  Things actually settled down a fair bit AFTER Neufeld went out. My sincere hope is that Bryant returns, Randolph kicks back inside and Neuf is that 6th / 7th offensive lineman. 

it's good....cause if he was to have...or dd have surgery it would have been done already...and he would be on crutches still pre-surgery....

Neuf I think will help a lot down the stretch....and if he is in at one of the guard spots we are better....and if he is the extra guy..again..we are better...and dont have to burn an import or DA spot

[Fatty Liver]

2 hours ago, wbbfan said:

Dollar coffee at macdonalds, buck fifty and stats will buy you coffee most places, just saying. 
 How many QBs do you think he’s out played in our play off games? Did Phil pot or Fajardo put up reduced stats in last years grey cup?

You can disregard a stat in isolation, but when it’s backed up by that many games over several years and his precipitous drop off this year and moderate drop off last year, tossing the stats out the window is just burying your head in the sand. Not to mention when that stat line meshes almost perfectly with the grouping of his worst games in the regular season previously and all of this year. Fact is, the majority of our team played similarly in the play offs to how they did in the regular season. Just not zach. 

If that was the case how did Fajardo win gc mvp? Along with modern winners like blm twice, Mike Reilly, and Hank Burris? Those guys weren’t passing for 250 1 and 1 either. How did Chad Kelly come off the bench and slap us off a win vs Toronto? 

A wise GM might take notice V.A. is likely to become available in the off-season, snapping him up like he did Zach could buy Walters another 4-5 years of elite QB serviceability.  Doing so would be better than milking an old cow for a year or two more in the hopes of extracting it's last remaining milk.

[Booch]

wonder if we have been rather quiet in moves, and bringing anyone in because we plan to re-structure ZC this yr...and give him a big chunk of 2025 moneythis yr, and that guarantee of 250k for 2025 is the hit we take for that yr...That would go a loooong way in making things nice and spicey for 2025 Grey Cup run

Edited September 4 by Booch

[Fatty Liver]

3 minutes ago, Jpan85 said:

 

Yeah for Stanley!!!

[17to85]

1 minute ago, Fatty Liver said:

A wise GM might take notice V.A. is likely to become available in the off-season, snapping him up like he did Zach could buy Walters another 4-5 years of elite QB serviceability.  Doing so would be better than milking an old cow for a year or two more in the hopes of extracting it's last remaining milk.

We talking about the same Vernon Adams? Dude is not an elite quarter back. Reality is there aren't any elite qbs anymore with collaros and BLM getting old AF. Just a bunch of guys you hope are more good than bad any given week.

[Jpan85]

 

[Booch]

Roll with the projected starters for BB....Eli and Randolph as the extra's....and if one of Dobson or Neuf is sucking arse....slap Randolph back in

Vanterpool off...Biggie off...gives us 2 import spots...Adams for sure.....Be nice if Cole was back to slide in...not even sure what his injury was.....if he not ready be interesting to see who we fill that other spot with...Maybe Smith gets back in...That would be a plus too

[Fatty Liver]

1 minute ago, 17to85 said:

We talking about the same Vernon Adams? Dude is not an elite quarter back. Reality is there aren't any elite qbs anymore with collaros and BLM getting old AF. Just a bunch of guys you hope are more good than bad any given week.

Elite or not, he could do good things if he landed in Wpg.

[Booch]

1 minute ago, Jpan85 said:

 

If he can't go...I hope Smith gets the nod and not Case...Smith offers us more....can back BO up if he gets knicked....and just offers more

[JCon]

33 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

No it wasn't.

It was horrible.