Argos at Bombers Chat

[Piggy 1]

10 minutes ago, rebusrankin said:

Ball was over the down marker, body not out of bounds, respectfully disagree.

So does the Command center........

[WinnipegGordo]

O'Shea had a good idea. He suggested the league should start having a marker on the sideline to highlight where the first down mark is. It could be a coloured strip they could place right at the sideline. 

It's something they could at least try in preseason games and fine tune the process.

[rebusrankin]

46 minutes ago, Piggy 1 said:

So does the Command center........

Same group that routinely misses head shots and dirty hits. Ok then.

[17to85]

Yeah based on where the ball was I think he got the yardage, but there was 0 chance they were going to over turn that. Tsn doesn't have the camera angles to make it definitive. How about not putting yourself 3rd and 17 instead.

[JCon]

1 hour ago, Piggy 1 said:

So does the Command center........

Explain the rule like I'm a 5 year old, please?

[Piggy 1]

10 minutes ago, JCon said:

Explain the rule like I'm a 5 year old, please?

Rule? What rule? He didnt make the line of gain, end of story. Horse has been sufficiently flogged, moving on.

[JCon]

7 minutes ago, Piggy 1 said:

Rule? What rule? He didnt make the line of gain, end of story. Horse has been sufficiently flogged, moving on.

Yeah, that's what I thought. 

[Yourface]

Are people complaining about the reffing again? Really? After that dreadful performance by the Bombers? Give that argument a rest.

[bluto]

I was actually saying during the (very long) review that they could spot this 2 yards short of a 1st or half a yard beyond it and I would not credibly be able to say they were definitively wrong.

[Booch]

13 hours ago, DTonOB said:

Just so I'm clear for tonight...the Nationalized American rule (the 7 CDNs + 1 fake Canadian)? Or the Designated Nationalized American rule (the now-25 snaps one)?

yeah

13 hours ago, Noeller said:

@Booch ^^^

yup....sorry wasnt online much lately been outta town

[Sard]

10 hours ago, 17to85 said:

Yeah based on where the ball was I think he got the yardage, but there was 0 chance they were going to over turn that. Tsn doesn't have the camera angles to make it definitive. How about not putting yourself 3rd and 17 instead.

I thought the tackle on the play that put them in 3rd and 17 was a horse collar, and I'm surprised O'Shea didn't challenge that.  We should have been up 22 yards from where we were with a first down.

[GCn20]

36 minutes ago, Sard said:

I thought the tackle on the play that put them in 3rd and 17 was a horse collar, and I'm surprised O'Shea didn't challenge that.  We should have been up 22 yards from where we were with a first down.

Can't challenge horse collar tackle. 

[Sard]

34 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Can't challenge horse collar tackle. 

Then I'm disappointed that the refs missed it.

[GCn20]

54 minutes ago, Sard said:

Then I'm disappointed that the refs missed it.

I didn't notice but I was kind of swearing and jumping around.

[Sard]

16 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

I didn't notice but I was kind of swearing and jumping around.

I haven't rewatched it on tv, but from where I was sitting in the stands, it seemed pretty clear that the guy had Collaros wrapped up and then grabbed the back of his collar to bring him down on the sack.  I was shocked at the time that a horse collar wasn't called.

As the play went down and the game ended, it was reminiscent of the non-PI call on the pick 6 that basically ended the last game against Toronto.

[GCn20]

1 hour ago, Sard said:

I haven't rewatched it on tv, but from where I was sitting in the stands, it seemed pretty clear that the guy had Collaros wrapped up and then grabbed the back of his collar to bring him down on the sack.  I was shocked at the time that a horse collar wasn't called.

As the play went down and the game ended, it was reminiscent of the non-PI call on the pick 6 that basically ended the last game against Toronto.

For many, many years when playing vs. the East the Western teams have to overcome the officiating as well. 

[wbbfan]

6 hours ago, bluto said:

I was actually saying during the (very long) review that they could spot this 2 yards short of a 1st or half a yard beyond it and I would not credibly be able to say they were definitively wrong.

Yeah. I get why the bombers challenged it. And it was a bad spot. But we just don’t have the tools to make an educated change like that in the cfl. 
 The cfls challenge system hasn’t really evolved since it was first put in. The nfl has crazy angle and the ability to pick exactly the angle they need to see. 
 They can’t even get the td sneak play right, how could they ever get a call like that right? 
 

The need for infrastructure to support the challenge system is dire. We don’t even have a good angle square to the goal line from the end zones. 
 

For spots, I think the future is the chip in the ball. But short of that they need to do some thing. Rapid stills, drones programmed to keep in view the ball and the yard marker, that stays square to the side line, a freaking frame by frame camera some thing. 
 

The worst part of this game isn’t even the difference in a win or loss for us or the argos. It isn’t even the perception of ineptitude of the league officiating. It’s that all the fans watched this should be thrilling end only to see the worst of what the league has to deal with. 
 All year every spot in every single game is a game of plus or minus 1.5 yards. A few outlier times I’ve seen 2 plus yard errors. And I’m not talking forward progress or difference between knee and elbow. Im talking maximum forward progress spot plus 2 and times and the bottom of the feet minus a yard and a half.

 

Apathy is the greatest threat to the league. And the greatest force behind apathy towards the league, is our reffing, discipline, and command centre. 

[17to85]

54 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

The worst part of this game isn’t even the difference in a win or loss for us or the argos. It isn’t even the perception of ineptitude of the league officiating. It’s that all the fans watched this should be thrilling end only to see the worst of what the league has to deal with. 
 All year every spot in every single game is a game of plus or minus 1.5 yards. A few outlier times I’ve seen 2 plus yard errors. And I’m not talking forward progress or difference between knee and elbow. Im talking maximum forward progress spot plus 2 and times and the bottom of the feet minus a yard and a half.

 

Apathy is the greatest threat to the league. And the greatest force behind apathy towards the league, is our reffing, discipline, and command centre. 

The league really needs to stop trying to tweak the rules every offseason and focus more on improving the officiating on the rules they do have already. It's quite frankly a joke how incompetent the referees are in the cfl.

[wbbfan]

18 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

The league really needs to stop trying to tweak the rules every offseason and focus more on improving the officiating on the rules they do have already. It's quite frankly a joke how incompetent the referees are in the cfl.

That is a great point. We don't need more nuisance to the situation, we need to be able to execute the basic stuff with rule enforcement. It's basic football stuff that is failing in terms of calls. 

[Yourface]

I swear every sport has the « worst refs ». Just depends which of our favourite sports teams has lost most recently. I find it so ridiculous how officiating becomes the focal point of just about every loss in every sport. The human species is way too biased to properly judge the officiating on most nights. 

[wbbfan]

39 minutes ago, Yourface said:

I swear every sport has the « worst refs ». Just depends which of our favourite sports teams has lost most recently. I find it so ridiculous how officiating becomes the focal point of just about every loss in every sport. The human species is way too biased to properly judge the officiating on most nights. 

Baseball actually has amazing umps. Since they’ve been audited every game the Accuracy has been exceptional save for the odd angel Hernandez type. Year one the average was 82% right on balls/strikes. This year has been 94%. 
 The nfl is reasonable consistent, and their review is 100000x better. 
 It’s often the battle cry of the filthy casual, “refs big dumb dumbs!” They aren’t out to get any one, or specifically screwing any team on a regular basis. They are simply horrid in terms of consistency and frequently fail spectacularly in a few areas. Holding calls, dbs jaming more than 5 yards down field, WRs blocking down field, no yards, spotting the ball, stopping the play on forward progress, and illegal block especially on special teams are all Mickey Mouse level. Watch any state contender hs football team in the us and you will see handily better reffing. 

[Mark H.]

Holding: I have long been of the opinion, that only a certain number of holds are called, by choice. It has unofficially become part of QB protection.

[HardCoreBlue]

59 minutes ago, Yourface said:

I swear every sport has the « worst refs ». Just depends which of our favourite sports teams has lost most recently. I find it so ridiculous how officiating becomes the focal point of just about every loss in every sport. The human species is way too biased to properly judge the officiating on most nights. 

I think some here are chatting about the current standard of reffing across the league regardless of who wins or loses. Much different discussion than ‘reffing is why we lost’.

Edited October 17 by HardCoreBlue

[Yourface]

33 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

Baseball actually has amazing umps. Since they’ve been audited every game the Accuracy has been exceptional save for the odd angel Hernandez type. Year one the average was 82% right on balls/strikes. This year has been 94%. 
 The nfl is reasonable consistent, and their review is 100000x better. 
 It’s often the battle cry of the filthy casual, “refs big dumb dumbs!” They aren’t out to get any one, or specifically screwing any team on a regular basis. They are simply horrid in terms of consistency and frequently fail spectacularly in a few areas. Holding calls, dbs jaming more than 5 yards down field, WRs blocking down field, no yards, spotting the ball, stopping the play on forward progress, and illegal block especially on special teams are all Mickey Mouse level. Watch any state contender hs football team in the us and you will see handily better reffing. 

I don’t watch the NFL and I still see a ridiculous amount of complaining about their refs, so I have a hard believing that they are THAT much better than CFL refs.

I don’t watch baseball either but I think the umpire’s job is pretty straightforward. There is not as much grey area in baseball as there is in football, hockey or basketball (IMO probably the hardest sport to officiate). In each of these sports you see an insane amount of complaining about the refs. At times it is warranted, but last weekend against the Argos? Not one bit. The Bombers shot themselves in the foot over and over again and the refs had nothing to do with it.

I can agree that some of the rule changes in the CFL over the years have been unnecessary, and haven’t done any favours for the officials, but the constant complaining about officiating gets tiring. 

 

19 minutes ago, HardCoreBlue said:

I think some here are chatting about the current standard of reffing across the league regardless of who wins or loses. Much different discussion than ‘reffing is why we lost’.

OK but that seems random in the context of this thread or this game.

Edited October 17 by Yourface

[17to85]

2 hours ago, Yourface said:

OK but that seems random in the context of this thread or this game.

It's not random... basically every game this year the refs embarrass themselves with ineptitude in some fashion. No one is saying "oh the refs always screw us over", it's more "the refs suck and they and the command centre regularly botch things". Like it's amateur hour in the CFL for reffing. 

Compared to say the NHL where I don't think the refs are inept, they just heavily engage in game management because that's what the NHL wants. I don't believe the CFL refs manage games, they're just useless.