2024 West Final - Lead Up Chatter

[Fatty Liver]

13 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

Here's the thing the smart play designers/callers have mastered though:

The front/alignment doesn't matter beyond the read you're hoping the offense to make pre-snap.

The big difference between JY's D and Richie Hall's is that Richie Hall applied this logic to every level including the DL.  Our DL is way too static and we don't have the right type of ends to run this D.

3rd Q, 2nd & 3 at the WPG 3, lo and behold Younger has the D-line playing a 3 man front with a good 2-3 yds. between them, Walter Fletcher takes a handoff and walks into the endzone untouched.  Biggie might have seen that one coming and rerouted.

[wbbfan]

1 hour ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

Here's the thing the smart play designers/callers have mastered though:

The front/alignment doesn't matter beyond the read you're hoping the offense to make pre-snap.

The big difference between JY's D and Richie Hall's is that Richie Hall applied this logic to every level including the DL.  Our DL is way too static and we don't have the right type of ends to run this D.

Thats certainly true for the most part. In th cfl big bodies are more limited and that does limit your fronts a bit more. 
 

Hall did a great job with diverse looks from the front and rush paths. Jy pretty much lines up his 3-4 and sends em straight. 
 

Like that tight 30 front with all 3 inside the guards. Like a bear front with out the two wide 5 rushers. And usually 2 Canadians who don’t do any thing in the rush. And thats the spicy front in our d lol. 

[Pete]

Pretty much, Younger wants the defensive ends to keep the qb in the pocket and push forward. Which is a good idea for qbs such as VA and Ford, but with Harris and MBT not so much.

We do need to come up with better blitz packages when we need to so that we are not so predictable. Our team as a whole is too predictable especially in the playoffs where the better teams have studied our tendencies. On offence its very seldom we run a play where you can say that was a great game plan. Most of the time we just rely on the athleticism of our receivers or Brady.

This year especially Buck has regressed in his play calling we use less motion and misdirection than most teams.

Edited November 1 by Pete

[johnzo]

6 hours ago, wbbfan said:

 

The jet sweep package has died, along with other packages and plays we have the pieces for. Remember the counter toss to Harris? The direct snap? The draw? 2nd and longer than 10 was a favourite for the draw to Harris. 

That was Lapo era stuff, wasn't it?

[kelownabomberfan]

 

 

[SpeedFlex27]

On 2024-10-30 at 11:00 AM, Pete Catan's Ghost said:

Kilam has been with Calgary (in some capacity) since 2005.

That's a hell of a run.

Mind you, their equipment dwarf has been there for 53, so there's that.

I have a couple of theories about Killam & Brett Monson & why they were let go. First off, if the owner refuses to hire two people to be GM & HC then why would he continue to pay for those two when ST's & defense aren't very good. With tenure, especially Killam, thy probably make more money than any other assistants. So, why not get rid of them?

Why would fans in Calgary want Killam as a HC? He spent over 20 years being a Spcial Teams Coach & Coordinator. He never once talked about moving up to DC. He seemed very satisfied where he was. What kind of a lazy ass HC would he have made anyway? How could he inspire others when he had no desire or inspiration himself?? No desire to leave his comfort zone. Not wanting to stretch himself & go out on a limb as a DC.

I think Dickenson saw Killam as an assistant who got too comfortable & lost his edge. Monson inherited a monster defense from Devonne Claybrooks. Once the stars all left, he wasn't capable of rebuilding. it. Monson turned out to be a shitty DC.

Monson & Killam would do well in U Sports & that's probably the level they should br coaching at. 

Edited November 1 by SpeedFlex27

[Booch]

8 hours ago, Pete said:

Pretty much, Younger wants the defensive ends to keep the qb in the pocket and push forward. Which is a good idea for qbs such as VA and Ford, but with Harris and MBT not so much.

We do need to come up with better blitz packages when we need to so that we are not so predictable. Our team as a whole is too predictable especially in the playoffs where the better teams have studied our tendencies. On offence its very seldom we run a play where you can say that was a great game plan. Most of the time we just rely on the athleticism of our receivers or Brady.

This year especially Buck has regressed in his play calling we use less motion and misdirection than most teams.

Its a good idea tho if we employ bodies in the middle who are active and able to get off a block...or over power with speed and strength....when we use either/or and or both the Canadians....we don't have that.....Idea and scheme is good....guys doing it...not so much

[Mark H.]

3 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

 Monson inherited a monster defense from Devonne Claybrooks. Once the stars all left, he wasn't capable of rebuilding. it. Monson turned out to be a shitty DC.

I don't buy this. He's not the GM.

[SpeedFlex27]

18 minutes ago, Mark H. said:

I don't buy this. He's not the GM.

True but I always felt he was overrated. Again, with his tenure he would have to be one of the highest paid assistants on staff. I think the Stamps want to go cheaper on their assistants. And I truly believe anyone can be a DC genius with the defense he inherited. U Sports with the Dinos or Golden Bears is where Monson should be. The only coach that truly impressed me with the Stamps last season was Nik Lewis.

From what I could see, Nik was the only coach that seemed to always be engaging with the players. The other coaaches just seemed to keep their distance on the sidelines. I never once saw OC DelMonaco talk to his qbs during the games. Lewis sure did. More than a few times. I don't know the significance of that but it was just something I noticed on tv. 

Edited November 1 by SpeedFlex27

[GCn20]

16 hours ago, Fatty Liver said:

Yah, works against weaker teams but the last 2 games have demonstrated they can't do that against the better teams.

We were far from keeping Zac clean against Toronto.

16 hours ago, Noeller said:

I didn't listen to it but I guess Jamie Nye was on WST today and said Sask is gonna beat BC and regardless of who comes out of the WSF, they're definitely going to beat Winnipeg in the final. 

I mean, maybe he's right but to be THAT certain is quite something.....

Jamie Nye also suggested the Riders would win the Grey Cup the last two years prior to this one so I would take his opinion with a grain of salt.

14 hours ago, WinnipegGordo said:

Yeah, I'd like to know his reasoning.

I will say though he was good at guessing winners this year (57-24) so hopefully he's not right again.

Edit: I watched to see why he was picking the Bonbers to lose and he didn't say. He just predicted that either the Lions or Riders were going to win.

Nye is a Rider fan first, journalist second. That is why.

[GCn20]

15 hours ago, Noeller said:

It'll be a sellout... They'll paper it if they have to, but all th tickets will be gone 

Won't need to paper it. Less than 2k tickets it will sell out on walk up.

14 hours ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

Here's the thing the smart play designers/callers have mastered though:

The front/alignment doesn't matter beyond the read you're hoping the offense to make pre-snap.

The big difference between JY's D and Richie Hall's is that Richie Hall applied this logic to every level including the DL.  Our DL is way too static and we don't have the right type of ends to run this D.

I agree with that, It would be nice to see a little more disguising of our defensive alignment. Hall was a master at it. 

[GCn20]

4 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

I have a couple of theories about Killam & Brett Monson & why they were let go. First off, if the owner refuses to hire two people to be GM & HC then why would he continue to pay for those two when ST's & defense aren't very good. With tenure, especially Killam, thy probably make more money than any other assistants. So, why not get rid of them?

Why would fans in Calgary want Killam as a HC? He spent over 20 years being a Spcial Teams Coach & Coordinator. He never once talked about moving up to DC. He seemed very satisfied where he was. What kind of a lazy ass HC would he have made anyway? How could he inspire others when he had no desire or inspiration himself?? No desire to leave his comfort zone. Not wanting to stretch himself & go out on a limb as a DC.

I think Dickenson saw Killam as an assistant who got too comfortable & lost his edge. Monson inherited a monster defense from Devonne Claybrooks. Once the stars all left, he wasn't capable of rebuilding. it. Monson turned out to be a shitty DC.

Monson & Killam would do well in U Sports & that's probably the level they should br coaching at. 

Something has to give after a season like they had. Sometimes, good coaches end up wearing the goat horns for a bad team.

2 hours ago, Booch said:

Its a good idea tho if we employ bodies in the middle who are active and able to get off a block...or over power with speed and strength....when we use either/or and or both the Canadians....we don't have that.....Idea and scheme is good....guys doing it...not so much

I can agree with that, however, as a coordinator you gotta play the roster you are given to their strengths and mitigate their weaknesses as well. I guess that would be my knock on Younger. However, overall I really like his defence.

58 minutes ago, Mark H. said:

I don't buy this. He's not the GM.

Ding ding ding....exactly why he was canned. Dicky managed to convince someone over his head that it wasn't a talent problem and he got to keep his job. That required the Monson meat shield.

Edited November 1 by GCn20

[17to85]

51 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

can agree with that, however, as a coordinator you gotta play the roster you are given to their strengths and mitigate their weaknesses as well. I guess that would be my knock on Younger. However, overall I really like his defence

Given the way the defense has performed are we going to suggest that younger hasn't worked with what he's been given on defense? Just because it doesn't look like the normal cfl defenses that most teams use which are based around the defensive line/linebackers doesn't mean it's not working. Until such time as cfl teams commit to being run heavy it's working and working damned well

[Booch]

25 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Given the way the defense has performed are we going to suggest that younger hasn't worked with what he's been given on defense? Just because it doesn't look like the normal cfl defenses that most teams use which are based around the defensive line/linebackers doesn't mean it's not working. Until such time as cfl teams commit to being run heavy it's working and working damned well

I think it's more the personnel upfront....a few tweaks and a reversal of who gets lions share of reps would make a pretty damned good defense into an outstanding one...especially considering to meet ratio requirements on any given snap Ford and Kramdi more than fulfills our Canadian requirement....reps with Thomas...Scmeck...and god help us both at once are wasted reps and do us  nothing net positive

Edited November 1 by Booch

[voodoochylde]

24 minutes ago, Booch said:

I think it's more the personnel upfront....a few tweaks and a reversal of who gets lions share of reps would make a pretty damned good defense into an outstanding one...especially considering to meet ratio requirements on any given snap Ford and Kramdi more than fulfills our Canadian requirement....reps with Thomas...Scmeck...and god help us both at once are wasted reps and do us  nothing net positive

Younger's defense played well this year but it was hamstrung by a lack of physicality up front - for the most part, they aren't stout enough to hold up inside and (routinely) fail to get any sort of meaningful pressure on a passer.

Injuries played a part in who we could trot out each week but I'm not convinced we have an "every down" tackle on the roster.  For as athletic and versatile as Adams is, he's not that.  Haven't seen enough of Fox to say one way or another and while Schmekel has a significantly faster first step than Jake, neither of those two are stout enough (or capable enough) to take regular reps.  

[JuranBoldenRules]

12 hours ago, Pete said:

Pretty much, Younger wants the defensive ends to keep the qb in the pocket and push forward. Which is a good idea for qbs such as VA and Ford, but with Harris and MBT not so much.

We do need to come up with better blitz packages when we need to so that we are not so predictable. Our team as a whole is too predictable especially in the playoffs where the better teams have studied our tendencies. On offence its very seldom we run a play where you can say that was a great game plan. Most of the time we just rely on the athleticism of our receivers or Brady.

This year especially Buck has regressed in his play calling we use less motion and misdirection than most teams.

I think he wants more pass rush from the ends.  We just don't have anyone we've seen this year even back to training camp who can get off the line and put OT's on their heels.  And the best guys at getting off the line, like Adams and Woods are 300 pounders.  So we've rolled them out in a lot of downs on the edge.

Even in terms of contain we are not disciplined, Jefferson especially.  He overruns the ball all the time.  Always poor leverage.  About all he can do at this point is play Mutombo (RIP) out there and try to get his hands in passing lanes.  But if teams are hard on him in terms of blocking he fades away.

Edited November 1 by JuranBoldenRules

[Booch]

should have dumped Thomas and his 100 and some K plus money...gave it to Jeffcoat...and tossed in some extra to show him his value.....we lack on dline from him being gone big time...Paid fairly...he would have been back

And when the lights came on in the playoffs....he was a standout every damn game

[BomberBall.]

24 minutes ago, Booch said:

should have dumped Thomas and his 100 and some K plus money...gave it to Jeffcoat...and tossed in some extra to show him his value.....we lack on dline from him being gone big time...Paid fairly...he would have been back

And when the lights came on in the playoffs....he was a standout every damn game

Agreed.  Maybe he’s kept in shape and would like to play in a couple playoff games? 😁

[Fatty Liver]

4 minutes ago, BomberBall. said:

Agreed.  Maybe he’s kept in shape and would like to play in a couple playoff games? 😁

No, he has retired and moved on with his real estate career.

[HardCoreBlue]

2 hours ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

I think he wants more pass rush from the ends.  We just don't have anyone we've seen this year even back to training camp who can get off the line and put OT's on their heels.  And the best guys at getting off the line, like Adams and Woods are 300 pounders.  So we've rolled them out in a lot of downs on the edge.

Even in terms of contain we are not disciplined, Jefferson especially.  He overruns the ball all the time.  Always poor leverage.  About all he can do at this point is play Mutombo (RIP) out there and try to get his hands in passing lanes.  But if teams are hard on him in terms of blocking he fades away.

Hey I love me WJ and the entertainment he has brought to the BB's over the last years but he's reminding me of a DB who regularly see's receivers catch the ball in front of him but will get a pic here and there to distract people from what's really going on. In WJ's situation it's the knock downs at the line of scrimmage that distract people from what JBR is saying here about WJ's play.

[Booch]

13 minutes ago, HardCoreBlue said:

Hey I love me WJ and the entertainment he has brought to the BB's over the last years but he's reminding me of a DB who regularly see's receivers catch the ball in front of him but will get a pic here and there to distract people from what's really going on. In WJ's situation it's the knock downs at the line of scrimmage that distract people from what JBR is saying here about WJ's play.

I'm totally of the belief thats what we want him to do....as we are basically asking teams to take these short to short intermediate passes...and hopefully get the knock down

You see in some games he plays a different game and comes off the line hard as eff...and causes a lot of issues....it's up to the other guys to clean it up and lock it down...but when for 80% of the snaps you have an immobile and ineffective ScmeckThomas up the gut...makes that work pointless.

You also have to understand teams will scheme and do things that regardless of what WJ does he's ineffective, cause they out scheme us...and thats where the loss of Jeffcoat hurts us, and our inability to replace him...before it was a pick your poison thing, and even then they would beat it....couldnt focus, on one or the other...or scheme to opposite side....now they can until we prove it's a bad decision...lots goes on that to the eye watching on TV doesn't tell the story

Edited November 1 by Booch

[Nolby]

Im hoping Younger does a little more with pressure from the Dline. Only sending 3 to rush the qb isn't doing much, especially when Thomas is one of the 3.

[Booch]

4 minutes ago, Nolby said:

Im hoping Younger does a little more with pressure from the Dline. Only sending 3 to rush the qb isn't doing much, especially when Thomas is one of the 3.

Teams will let him engage and get his lil push at times and just run play around him...or behind him because they know he cant get off...or even recognize it, and even if he dd...has zero backside pursuit ability....if there was ever a liability on a football field thats it right there...yet we just play him and play him...and then play him some more

[Noeller]

 

 

 

 

[Nolby]

10 minutes ago, Booch said:

Teams will let him engage and get his lil push at times and just run play around him...or behind him because they know he cant get off...or even recognize it, and even if he dd...has zero backside pursuit ability....if there was ever a liability on a football field thats it right there...yet we just play him and play him...and then play him some more

I don't give 2 shits that hes Canadian either for the roster spot, put anyone else there thats capable and figure out the configuration and make it work.