All things considered...

[SpeedFlex27]

On 2024-12-31 at 9:31 AM, Fatty Liver said:

This is a case that illustrates stats don't tell the whole story, can't convince me the Bomber D was physically better than the Argos D, which could be due entirely to their superior D-line play.

We played with smoke & mirrors defensively all season. How can anyone say that we have a great D without any kind of pass rush from the DL? Gauthier & Bighill as starting linebackers for the majority of the season. Bomber mgmt refusing to upgrade our front 7. Just satisfied with rushing three & dropping nine because we had one helluva secondary that saved our asses time & time again. Imagine what they could have done with an actual front 7 in front of them.... We are pansies on defense. A paddy cake defense. No physicality. Nuthin'. 

[17to85]

11 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

We played with smoke & mirrors defensively all season. How can anyone say that we have a great D without any kind of pass rush from the DL? Gauthier & Bighill as starting linebackers for the majority of the season. Bomber mgmt refusing to upgrade our front 7. Just satisfied with rushing three & dropping nine because we had one helluva secondary that saved our asses time & time again. Imagine what they could have done with an actual front 7 in front of them.... We are pansies on defense. A paddy cake defense. No physicality. Nuthin'. 

And yet they consistently came out on top and the stats back it up...just because most good defensesthese days are built around pressure and the front 7 doesn't mean that's the only way 

[Mark H.]

My take: they could have made some improvements at some positions, but there were many games where they were lights out. 

They didn't fare as well against the two best teams - it was clear all season that the Argos' had their number.  That's sports - sometimes an opponent matches up well against you.

IMO - you can't consistently depend on pressure in the current CFL.  Officiating is letting OLs getting away with a lot more holding than in the past, and that's not likely to change any time soon.  But I do think the Bombers have tilted a tad too far in the other direction.

It'll be interesting to see what kind of tweaks the Bombers make - but there's no need to throw out the baby with the bath water.

 

[Bigblue204]

55 minutes ago, Mark H. said:

My take: they could have made some improvements at some positions, but there were many games where they were lights out. 

They didn't fare as well against the two best teams - it was clear all season that the Argos' had their number.  That's sports - sometimes an opponent matches up well against you.

IMO - you can't consistently depend on pressure in the current CFL.  Officiating is letting OLs getting away with a lot more holding than in the past, and that's not likely to change any time soon.  But I do think the Bombers have tilted a tad too far in the other direction.

It'll be interesting to see what kind of tweaks the Bombers make - but there's no need to throw out the baby with the bath water.

 

See and that's my biggest issue with how the GC game played out. The game plans for the games against the argos weren't good during the season. And they seemed to think 3rd times the charm in the GC.

[Mark H.]

39 minutes ago, Bigblue204 said:

See and that's my biggest issue with how the GC game played out. The game plans for the games against the argos weren't good during the season. And they seemed to think 3rd times the charm in the GC.

Yeah, the response when a team schemes to take the run away, seems to be chuck it downfield.  

My take is partly game planning but also a case of simply being overmatched. No one is better than the Argos in the trenches.

[Fatty Liver]

18 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

We played with smoke & mirrors defensively all season. How can anyone say that we have a great D without any kind of pass rush from the DL? Gauthier & Bighill as starting linebackers for the majority of the season. Bomber mgmt refusing to upgrade our front 7. Just satisfied with rushing three & dropping nine because we had one helluva secondary that saved our asses time & time again. Imagine what they could have done with an actual front 7 in front of them.... We are pansies on defense. A paddy cake defense. No physicality. Nuthin'. 

To be fair the front 7 received a major overall in 2024 bringing in plenty of new blood, Devin Adams, Ayers, Jones, Woods added to the lineup and Garbutt, Haba, Cole, Fox and Schmeck given more prominent roles, the only non-change was Willie and Jake. That's quite a bit of renewal implemented in a single season, Bighill only played half a season and Gauthier's participation as a starter actually diminished.

Edited Friday at 09:30 PM by Fatty Liver

[Fatty Liver]

57 minutes ago, Bigblue204 said:

See and that's my biggest issue with how the GC game played out. The game plans for the games against the argos weren't good during the season. And they seemed to think 3rd times the charm in the GC.

It's no different than the Riders or Lions coming in all cocky and hot on a winning streak and getting repeatedly dropped by the Bombers, trending towards predictable outcome.

[Booch]

32 minutes ago, Mark H. said:

Yeah, the response when a team schemes to take the run away, seems to be chuck it downfield.  

My take is partly game planning but also a case of simply being overmatched. No one is better than the Argos in the trenches.

we were out coached plain and simple...and has happened a ton the last 3 yrs...we had the horses to get things done....but the horses need to be coached....trained...made aware of what will/won't work...then re-hash it all, with a plan B for when things are being stiffled...we did none of that and were just content to roll with what worked in the past....and it didnt work...thts a sign of a staff with no answer when it happens repeatedly....or a sign of a stubborn staff who think they the smartest in the room....pick which one you want

 

20 minutes ago, Fatty Liver said:

To be fair the front 7 received a major overall in 2024 bringing in plenty of new blood, Devin Adams, Ayers, Jones, Woods added to the lineup and Garbutt, Haba, Cole, Fox and Schmeck given more prominent roles, the only non-change was Willie and Jake. That's quite a bit of change implemented in a single season, Bighill only played half a season and Gauthier's participation as a starter actually diminished.

sure we overhauled a bit....but then refused to use them and played way too many sets with Thomas...wayyyy too many...and an absurdly bizzare amount with him and Schmeck...so may as well went with one lineman and drop 11 back.....bringing in new talent an blood is one thing....uses then is a different beast here...that goes with our LB's too

[bluto]

2 hours ago, Bigblue204 said:

See and that's my biggest issue with how the GC game played out. The game plans for the games against the argos weren't good during the season. And they seemed to think 3rd times the charm in the GC.

Incoming controversial take: Whenever we played the Als, RB's or Ticats (speaking of teams that just seem to have your number!), it always looked fairly apparent that each of them had a Toronto-Specific gameplan.

I never got that feeling or saw evidence of that against the Bombers.

[Tracker]

3 hours ago, Mark H. said:

My take: they could have made some improvements at some positions, but there were many games where they were lights out. 

They didn't fare as well against the two best teams - it was clear all season that the Argos' had their number.  That's sports - sometimes an opponent matches up well against you.

IMO - you can't consistently depend on pressure in the current CFL.  Officiating is letting OLs getting away with a lot more holding than in the past, and that's not likely to change any time soon.  But I do think the Bombers have tilted a tad too far in the other direction.

It'll be interesting to see what kind of tweaks the Bombers make - but there's no need to throw out the baby with the bath water.

 

Given the way the team rolled over in the Grey Cup game for the third time and struggled through much of the year with the same old problems, there ought to be a significant overhaul rather than a minor tweak or two. So long a O'Shea is Head Coach, I am not confident this is going to happen- the lack of announcements about Jake Thomas and Bighill is worrisome.

[Goalie]

32 minutes ago, Tracker said:

Given the way the team rolled over in the Grey Cup game for the third time and struggled through much of the year with the same old problems, there ought to be a significant overhaul rather than a minor tweak or two. So long a O'Shea is Head Coach, I am not confident this is going to happen- the lack of announcements about Jake Thomas and Bighill is worrisome.

Keep pushing this weird team rolled over narrative when it was 17 13 going into the 4th quarter is odd. I get repeating the same exact talking points months later but they didn’t roll over. Their QB got hurt then went back in and promptly gave the game away in 2 series. Question. So besides doing exactly what the vocal minority wants done what can they do really. It’s at the point where some of you will complain regardless cuz they didn’t do it your way. 

Edited Friday at 07:31 PM by Goalie

[Noeller]

24 minutes ago, Goalie said:

some of you will complain regardless cuz they didn’t do it your way. 

Without debating the rest of the post, I wanted to quote this for extra exposure. 

[HardCoreBlue]

On 2025-01-03 at 11:54 AM, bluto said:

Incoming controversial take: Whenever we played the Als, RB's or Ticats (speaking of teams that just seem to have your number!), it always looked fairly apparent that each of them had a Toronto-Specific gameplan.

I never got that feeling or saw evidence of that against the Bombers.

Incoming non controversial take:

Argos smell putrid.

Happy New Year!

[Tracker]

2 hours ago, HardCoreBlue said:

Incoming non controversial take:

Argos smell putrid.

Happy New Year!

And a Haiku to you too.

[do or die]

We needed a succession plan to start replacing some vets .........2 years ago.

Some of those guys may still be around, this season.   This would be a big fail....

[Booch]

On 2025-01-04 at 5:38 PM, do or die said:

We needed a succession plan to start replacing some vets .........2 years ago.

Some of those guys may still be around, this season.   This would be a big fail....

epic fail....and i getting more worried 

[17to85]

I would keep the faith in Kyle Walters. They kept things together longer than I get the sense he would have preferred just because of the easily excused narrow losses in the grey cups and big win totals.

They started making some moves last offseason and some came about during the season because of the way things always go. I'd be inclined to think our GM knows what's up and will make some of the hard decisions.

[SpeedFlex27]

On 2025-01-03 at 7:33 AM, 17to85 said:

And yet they consistently came out on top and the stats back it up...just because most good defensesthese days are built around pressure and the front 7 doesn't mean that's the only way 

Again, our secondary was the reason for that. Think we'll keep Ford? 

[Bigblue204]

8 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Again, our secondary was the reason for that. Think we'll keep Ford? 

If I'm being honest...I don't think they do. And I'm ok with it. That position is easily replaced with a cheaper american. It would be nice to have him, but I don't think he's a guy who can make or break your defense.

[17to85]

Honestly given the track record this team has DB is the last place I worry about losing guys. It's been star after star this management group has brought in at that position.

[Booch]

2 hours ago, Bigblue204 said:

If I'm being honest...I don't think they do. And I'm ok with it. That position is easily replaced with a cheaper american. It would be nice to have him, but I don't think he's a guy who can make or break your defense.

we could prob field a better import at less than half the price he gonna want...we don't need to use that spot as a canadian...and really if we were smart we wouldnt pidgeon hole certain spots as "canadian"...sign the best guys you can...then sort out the ratio...

[HardCoreBlue]

2 hours ago, Booch said:

we could prob field a better import at less than half the price he gonna want...we don't need to use that spot as a canadian...and really if we were smart we wouldnt pidgeon hole certain spots as "canadian"...sign the best guys you can...then sort out the ratio...

Yup gone are the days that one of your Canadians must be (insert spot/position). Like you said, sort out the ratio once you have secured the best available players you could that were in your means of doing so.

[Tracker]

On 2025-01-06 at 10:50 AM, 17to85 said:

I would keep the faith in Kyle Walters. They kept things together longer than I get the sense he would have preferred just because of the easily excused narrow losses in the grey cups and big win totals.

They started making some moves last offseason and some came about during the season because of the way things always go. I'd be inclined to think our GM knows what's up and will make some of the hard decisions.

I think Walters' biggest failing is that he has allowed O'Shea to keep fading/faded players and let promising newbies go. 

[17to85]

2 minutes ago, Tracker said:

I think Walters' biggest failing is that he has allowed O'Shea to keep fading/faded players and let promising newbies go. 

I think some of this is overblown to be honest. There's a couple guys need to be shown the door because time has passed them by but some of the young guys people ***** and moan about were hardly guarantees anyway. 

It's really not the big deal a select few have made it seem. 

[bb1]

45 minutes ago, Tracker said:

I think Walters' biggest failing is that he has allowed O'Shea to keep fading/faded players and let promising newbies go. 

Can't have it both ways, a meddling GM is a disaster, gotta leave who plays up to the HC.