2024/2025 Blue Bombers Off-Season Thread

[kelownabomberfan]

 

[JuranBoldenRules]

5 hours ago, Mike said:

Nitychoruk would be a pretty long option to develop at safety. Not athletic enough to play pro corner, but I’d be curious at how he’d translate to safety.

 

I think Nitychoruk could be a field corner in CFL.  He has excellent ball skills, he's a very strong open-field tackler.  Not a guy who plays in the muck, I don't see him moving to safety or linebacker.  He's going to have to bust his ass to make a CFL roster though, probably as a contain guy on cover teams.

[Booch]

the HC job is to control whats going on...and if things are not Going to plan...figure out why...and do what needs to be done to adjust.....to suggest a HC has no control or say over what is occurring is  just false on maNy levels...and an HC who just relies/depends on any coach under him with zero say about it....or no desire to correct things is just a bad HC then....Not sure what some of you'all are watching...or what your knowledge of things are football wise past The pop warner level but the success, and failure of a team....NCAA and or Pro falls directly at the feet of the HC as he controls the narrative...the roster...and the important decisions in a game....and not to be rude but any suggestion other wise is just complete BS

Yes I will add a successful HC is basically a product of a savvy G.M and Co-Ordinator's and positional coaches under his employ...and basically he does almost minimal actual work save for the in game decisions ...that being said the exceptional one's will also step in and over ride...make a call and yes...step on toes of people...assistant coaches and players when they just aren't getting it done

Edited Thursday at 07:03 PM by Booch

[Stickem]

57 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said:

 

I think Bud stole a line from W.C. Fields referring to Philadelphia...The difference is that Bud liked kids unlike Fields who said he couldn't stand either..lol....Best thing that ever happened to the Bombers is when Grant became head coach....Will OSH prove me wrong ?? Jury is out

[Brandon]

5 hours ago, GCn20 said:

Should you blame a cold virus for a runny nose? Yes. Throwing into double coverage is a symptom of a weak offensive scheme. Should the QB do it? No....obviously not, but he is paid to make plays and when he is throwing into double coverage one has to ask why the QB felt that was his best/only option. Also, he may have thrown into double coverage 3-4 times all season. Don't exaggerate to try and make your point, we've all watched the games and know this was not something that happened game in and game out. Did he throw into tight coverage often, yes, and that is the DB reading the route far easier than he should have been able to. That's on the OC mostly, and partly on the receiver not recognizing his route tree options based on the DB positioning.

3 to 4 times per game.  Lawler and others bailed him out. Are you forgetting his TD to Int ratio up until the end of the year?

The amount of times in the game day threads where people OMG'd or brought up that Zach made a bad choice shot up considerably last season.

Throwing a ball in an area full of db's is the choice of a QB.  I hope for next season Hogan drills into Zachs head that he has the permission to check down and throw short when read 1 and 2 are tightly covered. 

 

 

Edited Thursday at 08:59 PM by Brandon

[Tracker]

3 hours ago, GCn20 said:

Yes and no. Buck didn't do a great job last year but it was a mix of things, personnel being one issue as well. We went into last year trying to get younger. Realistically, anyone should have expected some growing pains early in the season to allow us to do that. MOS gave the benefit of the doubt to an OC, that up to last year, did a decent job. Also, not a single one of us knows what conversations MOS did/didn't have with Buck last year regarding the offensive inconsistency. Our offence got better as the season progressed so there is that as well. The GC game....short of MOS running upstairs and kicking Buck out of the booth there was little he could have done.

Sounds like a plan. Pierce would have been replaced by Hogan a little earlier is all. Ignoring Oliviera in crunch time was inexcusable.

[SpeedFlex27]

4 hours ago, Tracker said:

IMO, that still falls on O'Shea who ought to have stepped in if Buck was not doing  job.

You're talking about the HC who in 2023 played 4 players who physically couldn't play. Then last year put Zach back in the game with an injured & bloodied finger on his throwing hand. Blind leading the blind. Both Osh & Buck let everyone down.

[wbbfan]

3 hours ago, GCn20 said:

The HC will only very occasionally over ride an OC's play call and it is almost always in a decision like you described above. 2nd and short and the OC wants to go into the bag of tricks or something and the HC will dash his dreams by over riding. Specific play calling on 2nd and long for instance...nope...doubt the HC even knows the offensive playbook well enough to do so.

Growing pains is my way of saying that we couldn't run the complexities of our offence totally because of unfamiliarity with the playbook, and that chemistry was not there yet either. Those first few games last year the timing was brutal as well. Just out of synch and it is my opinion it is because players were somewhat confused and just not enough reps to get comfortable yet.

The specifics vary a lot coach to coach but yeah that is generally how it works, situationally. Some spots more than others. Also depending on install the hc will often be the one to call in a niche play. Many hcs want control over trick play timing etc. 

 I’m sure mos is generally one of the less intrusive hcs. Not like maas, dicky, etc who either coordinate fully or every thing but in name. 

2 hours ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

I think Nitychoruk could be a field corner in CFL.  He has excellent ball skills, he's a very strong open-field tackler.  Not a guy who plays in the muck, I don't see him moving to safety or linebacker.  He's going to have to bust his ass to make a CFL roster though, probably as a contain guy on cover teams.

Agree with that. I don’t see him as a lber candidate. He will have to bust ass especially on teams earn a spot and work up. 

[HardCoreBlue]

4 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

You're talking about the HC who in 2023 played 4 players who physically couldn't play. Then last year put Zach back in the game with an injured & bloodied finger on his throwing hand. Blind leading the blind. Both Osh & Buck let everyone down.

I know one can caught up in the game, lots of emotions happening especially in a championship game, bullets are flying but what were the main reasons/rationalization in the oc and hc not deploying BO in a much more aggressive way when ZC came back into the game with an injured finger that impeded his ability to throw the ball at 100%? Was it Argos D showed they were anticipating the run, was it the juncture of the game that dictated the need to pass, was it that ZC indicated something he saw, was it BO wasn’t banged up , a combo of these things, other? The game is long over and looking forward to this season but just curious to re-visit this in an attempted objective point of view?

[Fatty Liver]

21 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

The specifics vary a lot coach to coach but yeah that is generally how it works, situationally. Some spots more than others. Also depending on install the hc will often be the one to call in a niche play. Many hcs want control over trick play timing etc. 

 I’m sure mos is generally one of the less intrusive hcs. Not like maas, dicky, etc who either coordinate fully or every thing but in name. 

I recall O'Shea saying a number of years ago how he no longer suggests plays after making an error overriding a defensive formation onetime and now trusts his coordinators to call all plays.  After that he focused on managing the clock and general game time decisions such as when to punt and when to gamble.  Probably not normal but than not very normal for a STC to become a HC.

Edited Thursday at 09:48 PM by Fatty Liver

[Tracker]

If a head coach does not have the insight or will to correct a subordinate coach when said subordinate is screwing up obviously and costing the team the game and championship, then you have a BIG problem rectifiable only with road maps and apples for two to go.

[Goalie]

4 minutes ago, Tracker said:

If a head coach does not have the insight or will to correct a subordinate coach when said subordinate is screwing up obviously and costing the team the game and championship, then you have a BIG problem rectifiable only with road maps and apples for two to go.

Who the **** fires coaches when they been to 5 straight cups. Honestly. Some of your comments are just ridiculous. Some of you really believe you have some say huh. That’s wild. 

Edited Thursday at 09:57 PM by Goalie

[HardCoreBlue]

30 minutes ago, Goalie said:

Who the **** fires coaches when they been to 5 straight cups. Honestly. Some of your comments are just ridiculous. Some of you really believe you have some say huh. That’s wild. 

We don't?

What a waste of time this has been posting here for the last 12 years.

[Mark H.]

1 hour ago, HardCoreBlue said:

We don't?

What a waste of time this has been posting here for the last 12 years.

I'll be having a word or two...with my keyboard.

[rebusrankin]

2 hours ago, Goalie said:

Who the **** fires coaches when they been to 5 straight cups. Honestly. Some of your comments are just ridiculous. Some of you really believe you have some say huh. That’s wild. 

[johnzo]

3 hours ago, Brandon said:

The amount of times in the game day threads where people OMG'd or brought up that Zach made a bad choice shot up considerably last season.

on one hand, you're not wrong, but on the other hand, I wouldn't use GDTs to win any arguments except arguments about the emotional stability of MBB posters.

[Brandon]

1 hour ago, johnzo said:

on one hand, you're not wrong, but on the other hand, I wouldn't use GDTs to win any arguments except arguments about the emotional stability of MBB posters.

Well the stats backed up my arguments also. Nobody was considering Zach an MOP candidate last season.

[kelownabomberfan]

7 hours ago, Stickem said:

I think Bud stole a line from W.C. Fields referring to Philadelphia...The difference is that Bud liked kids unlike Fields who said he couldn't stand either..lol....Best thing that ever happened to the Bombers is when Grant became head coach....Will OSH prove me wrong ?? Jury is out

I wonder if Bud Grant could have beaten Toronto?  He only seemed to ever end up playing Hamilton in his Grey Cups...incidentally the only team Osh seems to be able to beat as well...

7 hours ago, Stickem said:

I think Bud stole a line from W.C. Fields referring to Philadelphia...The difference is that Bud liked kids unlike Fields who said he couldn't stand either..lol....Best thing that ever happened to the Bombers is when Grant became head coach....Will OSH prove me wrong ?? Jury is out

quite the headline in 1953 - "Grant quits Eagles to join Winnipeg".   I don't think we'll see a "Jalen Hurts quits Eagles to join Winnipeg" headline any time soon...lol...

Edited yesterday at 02:14 AM by kelownabomberfan

[SpeedFlex27]

13 hours ago, Goalie said:

Who the **** fires coaches when they been to 5 straight cups. Honestly. Some of your comments are just ridiculous. Some of you really believe you have some say huh. That’s wild. 

Uh-oh, the acolytes are getting stirred up tonight. Like a hornet's nest.

Edited yesterday at 11:04 AM by SpeedFlex27

[Booch]

18 hours ago, wbbfan said:

The specifics vary a lot coach to coach but yeah that is generally how it works, situationally. Some spots more than others. Also depending on install the hc will often be the one to call in a niche play. Many hcs want control over trick play timing etc. 

 I’m sure mos is generally one of the less intrusive hcs. Not like maas, dicky, etc who either coordinate fully or every thing but in name. 

Agree with that. I don’t see him as a lber candidate. He will have to bust ass especially on teams earn a spot and work up. 

he needs to be more intrusive and not worry about the "nice guy" mystique and take control at times...It's part of the job....Our unwillingness for anyone...be it HC ..GM or even prez step in and if anything just say "why" to some of our decisions has ultimately cost us 3 Cups...and before anyone says "yeah but injuries"...well dressing hurt guys...not pulling guys who got hurt and not replacing them in game....and unwillingness to adjut to the game flow...instead just keep hammering away with a flawed scheme and showing no faith in any back-ups to step in...and step up...killed us...and was a conscious decision by...at end of the day..the HC....It's okay to bench guys...replace hurt guys....tell a co-ord to get his **** together or he gonna take control.....

 

7 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Uh-oh, the acolytes are getting stirred up tonight. Like a hornet's nest.

or ...maybe the wise ones can look at it a different way eh?...Who the eff keeps a coach in place who has failed in 3 straight championships...for reasons that were common in all 3?...there is that angle as well when head is pulled out of sand and blue glass removed

If we were to move on and replace our HC....And due diligence was used in picking one...who is not a moron....an assbag...or Chris Jones...we will be just fine...maybe better...we wouldnt fall off a cliff....

[Mark H.]

18 minutes ago, Booch said:

If we were to move on and replace our HC....And due diligence was used in picking one...who is not a moron....an assbag...or Chris Jones...we will be just fine...maybe better...we wouldnt fall off a cliff....

Which is usually not the case when someone takes an HC job - usually there is rebuilding to be done

That would be the difference - if O'Shea were let go

[wbbfan]

41 minutes ago, Booch said:

he needs to be more intrusive and not worry about the "nice guy" mystique and take control at times...It's part of the job....Our unwillingness for anyone...be it HC ..GM or even prez step in and if anything just say "why" to some of our decisions has ultimately cost us 3 Cups...and before anyone says "yeah but injuries"...well dressing hurt guys...not pulling guys who got hurt and not replacing them in game....and unwillingness to adjut to the game flow...instead just keep hammering away with a flawed scheme and showing no faith in any back-ups to step in...and step up...killed us...and was a conscious decision by...at end of the day..the HC....It's okay to bench guys...replace hurt guys....tell a co-ord to get his **** together or he gonna take control.....

 

or ...maybe the wise ones can look at it a different way eh?...Who the eff keeps a coach in place who has failed in 3 straight championships...for reasons that were common in all 3?...there is that angle as well when head is pulled out of sand and blue glass removed

If we were to move on and replace our HC....And due diligence was used in picking one...who is not a moron....an assbag...or Chris Jones...we will be just fine...maybe better...we wouldnt fall off a cliff....

He must 100% put the team's best interest before his agendas and ideals, but he won't unless he is forced to. 

 

In the past, nice guy "player" coaches had a shelf life. You'd see discipline and execution slip further and further until teams would move on, usually to a stricter guy. But in modern pro sports, that heavy-handed type of head coach just doesn't work anymore, so it doesn't exist. You have shades of nice/strict but nothing close to the guys 20-25 years ago. And coaches don't have the power to use practice to reel in such issues anymore. 

 I think Mos position with this stuff is a crossroads that many coaches in pro sports are at. I don't think anyone knows what the next step is, but in the meantime, moving further into the stricter, higher accountability side would be a big improvement. 

 

For a rebuilding team, firing a coach is easy. Because the expectation resets. For a playoff/contender, it's a really hard situation. You need to know you have access to a guy who is turnkey at that level of winning. I don't think that is available today. And I am sure the team is not willing to risk a rebuild. The only ways out for Mos are for someone unexpected to become available and the change is made, most quits/leaves at the end of his deal, or the team collapses into a rebuild. I don't think any of those are likely. Though the most likely one is a collapse. We do not have the roster flexibility to absorb more than maybe 1 all-star caliber injury and still stay in the race. 

[Mark H.]

38 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

We do not have the roster flexibility to absorb more than maybe 1 all-star caliber injury and still stay in the race. 

Right now, no one really has much of that.  It comes down to how well they scout and recruit, which is a huge unknown on Feb. 28.

[wbbfan]

8 minutes ago, Mark H. said:

Right now, no one really has much of that.  It comes down to how well they scout and recruit, which is a huge unknown on Feb. 28.

Every team is thinner in the offseason than in camp; that is for sure. And every team is wanting, probably needing to hit on at least 1 rookie this year. 

But we are certainly thinner than most contenders. Toronto isn't banking nearly as much on rookies, they are banking on returning role players taking a step forward and becoming starters and all-stars. Which is a world of difference. Imo, of last year's playoff teams, we have the least ability to absorb injuries at the top end of our roster. Our ability to replace guys at the bottom is pretty strong, though. 

[HardCoreBlue]

1 hour ago, Mark H. said:

Which is usually not the case when someone takes an HC job - usually there is rebuilding to be done

That would be the difference - if O'Shea were let go

Where ever one fits along the spectrum of how they feel about MOS that no one could get around, releasing him at this moment in time would be an optic nightmare.