2024/2025 Blue Bombers Off-Season Thread

[SpeedFlex27]

On 2025-02-28 at 11:42 AM, wbbfan said:

I wonder if it wouldn’t be easier and more effective, if (and only if) we continued to back slide and can’t get out of it, to replace Walters. 
 Find a gm who can reign in and push mos to develop and improve. Remove and prevent crutch players (we all know the names) and maybe improve our free agent approach. (If we falter I think it’s fair to expect our quantity over quality approach this year failed too) 

One day every coach leaves, and it’s virtually never a good way out or an immediate upgrade for long term coaches.  When it happens it’ll probably lead to a further down turn and rebuild. Mos is still a pretty young hc though. If he can take another step forward it will go far and he could be here for another 10 years. 

Yeah, this is my thinking right now. I may not be impressed with Osh's coaching right now but I don't believe he should be fired. Yet. However, I do believe the weak link in the organization may now be Walters. I maintain his best years were 2017-19 & 21. The past 4 years we've lost key players to other teams in free agency & never replaced them. Especially on the OL & DL. At least before, he'd go out & sign some A Lister free agents. Expected big things this off season as we are hosting the Grey Cup & poof!! nothing, really. Hard to believe that this is the same guy who signed Stanley Bryant & Adam Bighill.

[SpeedFlex27]

On 2025-02-28 at 10:59 AM, Fatty Liver said:

The Bombers are currently the most successful franchise in the CFL, they sellout multiple games in a row, the stands are always full, people are having a fantastic time, food, beverage and merchandise sales are up and they've had a winning record finishing first in the West the last 4 seasons and going to the GC the last 5.  I believe Wade Miller is happy with all the measurables.

 

One poor season on the field will erase all those measurables like sellouts, season tickets, atmosphere, merch sales, etc. The Bombers will go back to crowds of 22-24,000 once again. We aren't the Dallas Cowboys or even the Cleveland Browns where fans never stop coming to the games. Where they buy season tickets just to boo. Fans will drop the Bombers like the plague & start cheering for the Vikings.

For proof of that, the Stamps made the playoffs every year for over 20 years & until 2018 were the most dominant team in the CFL. They've gone from crowds of 30,000 back then to 15,000 today. Even worse some home games. No one gives a hoot about the Stamps here in YYC. That's the difference between the NFL & CFL when it comes to losing. Most NFL teams, their fans stick with them. CFL fans stay away & forget about their team.

[SpeedFlex27]

2 hours ago, Booch said:

He was until he got benched ..for real reason...and if it was done due to performance there were probably 3..4 others as well who should have seen the pine...and how's a young guy with serious upside supposed to develop...it's not by benching him and definitely not by playing 2..3 other guys in front of him with inferior skil set and no upside

I know how this place works. Just about everyone who now call Osh a genius coach & are sticking up for him this off season will turn on the guy if we go 0-4 again or are 3-6 at midway point of the season & show little sign of recovery. Unlike last season when we went on a 10 game winning streak to save our season. Seen it many times over the years. Fans turning on their team's HC. Right now, I don't believe that we're better than an 8-10 or 9-9 team fighting for the last playoff spot in the West or the crossover playoff spot. I hope I'm wrong, I really do.

The only poster I'll say who won't is Noeller. Even if the Bomber season tanks. I may not agree with his takes but at least he's never been a turncoat. He'll be loyal to the end for Osh. I respect that.

[wbbfan]

44 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Yeah, this is my thinking right now. I may not be impressed with Osh's coaching right now but I don't believe he should be fired. Yet. However, I do believe the weak link in the organization may now be Walters. I maintain his best years were 2017-19 & 21. The past 4 years we've lost key players to other teams in free agency & never replaced them. Especially on the OL & DL. At least before, he'd go out & sign some A Lister free agents. Expected big things this off season as we are hosting the Grey Cup & poof!! nothing, really. Hard to believe that this is the same guy who signed Stanley Bryant & Adam Bighill.

I think how we recruit free agents and at what positions vs how Hamilton does will give us a strong indication of how much was the guys under Walters and how much he had a strong hand in. 
 It’s a big proof is in the pudding year for us.  

Edited yesterday at 09:17 PM by wbbfan

[wbbfan]

3 hours ago, MOBomberFan said:

Imagine thinking GC wins were the only metric for success, that would make Milt a flop of a nobody, and Khari only knew success with the Riders

Winning championships is certainly the biggest success indicator and goal but far from the only one. 
 I think a lot of people would say consistent winning is next. I think that’s in the next tier, but I’d put the ability to find ways to win when the underdog (like toronto) and limiting upset losses are the next biggest ones. 
 

With that, we are clearly one of the most successful teams in the league over the past decade. Currently, I think Toronto and Montreal handily out perform our coaching staff where and when it counts. But we 3 are the top tier for sure. 

[SpeedFlex27]

38 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

Winning championships is certainly the biggest success indicator and goal but far from the only one. 
 I think a lot of people would say consistent winning is next. I think that’s in the next tier, but I’d put the ability to find ways to win when the underdog (like toronto) and limiting upset losses are the next biggest ones. 
 

With that, we are clearly one of the most successful teams in the league over the past decade. Currently, I think Toronto and Montreal handily out perform our coaching staff where and when it counts. But we 3 are the top tier for sure. 

Ryan Dinwiddie is the best HC in the CFL & his tree has spawned one very successful rookie HC in Corey Mace who has changed the culture of the team under Dave Dickenson. Just based on whet they did in free agency, they are a better team than they were in 2024.

[Mark H.]

1 hour ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

One poor season on the field will erase all those measurables like sellouts, season tickets, atmosphere, merch sales, etc. The Bombers will go back to crowds of 22-24,000 once again. We aren't the Dallas Cowboys or even the Cleveland Browns where fans never stop coming to the games. Where they buy season tickets just to boo. Fans will drop the Bombers like the plague & start cheering for the Vikings.

For proof of that, the Stamps made the playoffs every year for over 20 years & until 2018 were the most dominant team in the CFL. They've gone from crowds of 30,000 back then to 15,000 today. Even worse some home games. No one gives a hoot about the Stamps here in YYC. That's the difference between the NFL & CFL when it comes to losing. Most NFL teams, their fans stick with them. CFL fans stay away & forget about their team.

Not an apples to apples comparision...Stamps' facility & gameday experience sucks.

[HardCoreBlue]

1 hour ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Ryan Dinwiddie is the best HC in the CFL & his tree has spawned one very successful rookie HC in Corey Mace who has changed the culture of the team under Dave Dickenson. Just based on whet they did in free agency, they are a better team than they were in 2024.

I agree, both the Riders and Argos suck. It’s so good that we are all on the same page.

[bigg jay]

6 hours ago, MOBomberFan said:

Imagine thinking GC wins were the only metric for success, that would make Milt a flop of a nobody, and Khari only knew success with the Riders

A bit different comparing players to coaches.  Wins are the only real measure of success for a coach with GC wins being most important one. 

Milt didn't win a cup but he re-wrote the record book for receiving yards and touchdowns so there's other ways to prove his successes.

[brett_c_b]

4 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Ryan Dinwiddie is the best HC in the CFL & his tree has spawned one very successful rookie HC in Corey Mace who has changed the culture of the team under Dave Dickenson. Just based on whet they did in free agency, they are a better team than they were in 2024.

You may be right but I'll never say anything for about him. Even if 2007 wasn't his fault

[17to85]

6 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

One poor season on the field will erase all those measurables like sellouts, season tickets, atmosphere, merch sales, etc. The Bombers will go back to crowds of 22-24,000 once again. We aren't the Dallas Cowboys or even the Cleveland Browns where fans never stop coming to the games. Where they buy season tickets just to boo. Fans will drop the Bombers like the plague & start cheering for the Vikings.

For proof of that, the Stamps made the playoffs every year for over 20 years & until 2018 were the most dominant team in the CFL. They've gone from crowds of 30,000 back then to 15,000 today. Even worse some home games. No one gives a hoot about the Stamps here in YYC. That's the difference between the NFL & CFL when it comes to losing. Most NFL teams, their fans stick with them. CFL fans stay away & forget about their team.

What a load of crap... 

Bomber fans have always been there and comparing to calgary is an awful idea. Calgary is wannabe Toronto. Want to be big time so badly. Winnipeg is not like that.

[Tracker]

On 2025-02-28 at 11:59 AM, Fatty Liver said:

The Bombers are currently the most successful franchise in the CFL, they sellout multiple games in a row, the stands are always full, people are having a fantastic time, food, beverage and merchandise sales are up and they've had a winning record finishing first in the West the last 4 seasons and going to the GC the last 5.  I believe Wade Miller is happy with all the measurables.

iWhat are you hoping to accomplish by firing O'Shea, achieve one move victory per season?  In what way is he damaging the brand or the franchise? 

I am hoping to not lose three Grey Cup games in a row and make intelligent game plan adjustments.

[SpeedFlex27]

7 hours ago, Mark H. said:

Not an apples to apples comparision...Stamps' facility & gameday experience sucks.

But the one shared thing of all CFL teams is the game day experience that depends upon above everything else, having a winning football team. 

As I mentioned earlier, the Cleveland Browns have sucked the better part of the last 40 years yet they average 60,000 fans a game even when they win 4 games a season. 

The New York Jets still sell out their stadium in New Jersey. All 78000 seats still sell out despite losing 80% of their games year in & year out. 

CFL teams like Winnipeg, one season of bad football & all the good things the team did for a decade will be gone. The atmosphere & everything will be a thing of the past.

Montreal had a jump in attendance as the team did well on the field finishing first in the CFL East last year. If the Als fall back slightly next season to second or third then so will attendance.

If you feel that Calgary isn't a good example then fine. Look at Saskatchewan. The Dickenson years, the Garrett Marino scandal, Duke Williams spitting on an Argo defensive back during the Atlantic Canada game & then to make matters worse while he was injured took a swing at a Blue Bomber standing on the sidelines during Labour Day Sunday a few weeks later. The Riders have a new stadium, the same atmosphere as Winnipeg, the same rabid fans as the Bombers & attendance plummeted from sellouts of 33,000 to between 17-22,000 from 2022-24. They still haven't come back.

It's the CFL. In every city except perhaps Toronto a winning team usurps everything. People won't spend $$$ on a losing football team like fans do in the NFL.

Edited 17 hours ago by SpeedFlex27

[SpeedFlex27]

3 hours ago, 17to85 said:

What a load of crap... 

Bomber fans have always been there and comparing to calgary is an awful idea. Calgary is wannabe Toronto. Want to be big time so badly. Winnipeg is not like that.

We'll see. 

[Sard]

2 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

We'll see. 

2013 is a prime example of how Winnipeg fans are... we had a 3-15 team (and the games were bad, usually done half way through the 3rd quarter) and averaged the 3rd highest attendance in the league at just over 30,000.

[SpeedFlex27]

4 hours ago, Sard said:

2013 is a prime example of how Winnipeg fans are... we had a 3-15 team (and the games were bad, usually done half way through the 3rd quarter) and averaged the 3rd highest attendance in the league at just over 30,000.

You know, if I'm wrong then I'm wrong & I won't double down on something when I am. I went back & reviewed attendance figures going back to 2013 & yeah, 17to85 is right, attendance has been strong. Some teams would kill for our numbers.

So then. I'll admit he was right & I was wrong. However, if you think that averaging just over 30,000 with a team that won just 3 games during the 2013 season didn't have anything to do with the much anticipated new stadium that opened that year after a 12 month long delay then you're naive. People wanted to sit in it & experience the atmosphere of a new stadium.

Still though, attendance has been pretty good over the past 12 years & better than my memory recalls. So, I was wrong & glad to eat a little crow. 

Edited 12 hours ago by SpeedFlex27

[bluto]

Just to add: Shiny new stadium may have helped attendance in recent years.

[SpeedFlex27]

1 minute ago, bluto said:

Just to add: Shiny new stadium may have helped attendance in recent years.

Anyone who thinks it didn't... 

[rebusrankin]

So we've debated MOS, I think its time to delve more into the performance of Walters. His recruitment of Import talent and National drafting seems to have dropped when you compare 22-24 to 17-21. Discuss among yourselves.

[Goalie]

28 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Anyone who thinks it didn't... 

it’s on the opposite end of the city where everybody lives. If anything it’s surprising ppl aren’t complaining still about where it’s located. 

[bigg jay]

16 minutes ago, bluto said:

Just to add: Shiny new stadium may have helped attendance in recent years.

The shiny new stadium is 12 years old now so I'm not sure that's quite accurate.  We did get a slight bump the 1st year it was open but attendance dipped to previous levels (or lower) after the first year, suggesting that a winning team had more of an effect than the new stadium.  Last 15 years of average attendance:

2024 - 31.1k

2023 - 30.4k

2022 - 28.6k

2021 - 25.9k (Covid year - attendance most likely affected by vaccine mandates).

2019 - 25.4k

2018 - 26.8k

2017 - 27.6k

2016 - 25.9k

2015 - 26.7k

2014 - 28.3k

2013 (first year of the new stadium) - 30.6k

2012 - 28.3k

2011 - 29.5k

2010 - 26k

2009 - 25.7k

3DN had an article a few years ago where they showed how Winnipeg was the most consistent franchise for attendance over the last 50 years - not bad considering there were some pretty terrible teams and a 29 year GC drought in that time.

How CFL attendance has changed over the past fifty years (with a close look at B.C. and Toronto) - 3DownNation

 

 

[wbbfan]

7 minutes ago, rebusrankin said:

So we've debated MOS, I think its time to delve more into the performance of Walters. His recruitment of Import talent and National drafting seems to have dropped when you compare 22-24 to 17-21. Discuss among yourselves.

So, I'm gonna dive into 2022 to start. I think 21 is a strong draft, and honestly, we could've used talent we took in that draft better.

People often look at 22 as a start of drafting drop off, but keep in mind we traded for Lawson, a high-level starter with all-star potential and a realistic chance to fulfill that talent, plus with the 2nd round pick we got Ford. Which, for most teams, is a generational draft to get 2 guys at that level. We wasted Burtenshaw for the marine, but that was still an excellent value pick. A grade. 

23, Bennett was an ugly pick. We followed up with Kelly, who I think has a good chance to start for us this year. We got Murphy, who is seldom off the bench/pr. Schmekel, who has played a ton of games, isn't a starter or star but a solid role guy with versatility. Korny, who didn't get much of a shot despite them liking him, Rosery honestly got hosed and should've made the roster last year, and a couple of TCF guys. Overall, we swung for the fences and missed, but we came out with a strong depth draft. B- grade

Last year, we got Big Kev, MCI, Wallace, Samson, Laroux, Manu, Hubert, and Gassama. Laroux is the snapper who will likely be dead money in camp but is supposed to be a money snapper. Gassama is back for a 2nd camp, Hubert is with the Cats, Samson is back, Manu is on the Lions PR down south, and Wallace/Mci/big Kev are penciled in as 2 starters and a backup. That's a stud draft. A grade.

Even the 20 draft, Legs is doing great in Hamilton, Hallett can't stay healthy but is a solid teams guy, Bolo who we lost in FA, and Cadwallader who is a beast on teams. B- grade. 

 

Draft-wise, I think we've done well. I think we've aimed for teams guys a bit too much at times, but mostly, we've wasted and lost guys to free agency. 

 

This is the list of players we've drafted and who signed with other teams going back to 19: Desjarlais, Kongbo, Exume, Bolo, Legs, Dobson, Rene, Ford, Bennett, and Hubert. The list of guys we wasted: Bolo, Legs, Rene, Borsa, Burtenshaw, Rosery, Hubert.  We've lost a bunch of guys as premium free agents in that first group. Bennett was a poor choice and a pick for need. We hoped he would have a high floor, he did not.

I question our aim in drafting some of the guys we took, but more so I question our use of talent once we get them.  

11 minutes ago, bigg jay said:

The shiny new stadium is 12 years old now so I'm not sure that's quite accurate.  We did get a slight bump the 1st year it was open but attendance dipped to previous levels (or lower) after the first year, suggesting that a winning team had more of an effect than the new stadium.  Last 15 years of average attendance:

2024 - 31.1k

2023 - 30.4k

2022 - 28.6k

2021 - 25.9k (Covid year - attendance most likely affected by vaccine mandates).

2019 - 25.4k

2018 - 26.8k

2017 - 27.6k

2016 - 25.9k

2015 - 26.7k

2014 - 28.3k

2013 (first year of the new stadium) - 30.6k

2012 - 28.3k

2011 - 29.5k

2010 - 26k

2009 - 25.7k

3DN had an article a few years ago where they showed how Winnipeg was the most consistent franchise for attendance over the last 50 years - not bad considering there were some pretty terrible teams and a 29 year GC drought in that time.

How CFL attendance has changed over the past fifty years (with a close look at B.C. and Toronto) - 3DownNation

 

 

QFT, stadium is very nice but far from new. And as Goalie said, it's location is sub optimal to most fans. Plus some of the issues with finish quality, time, and traffic early on hurt us far more than it helped. 

 Half the teams in the league would need to have an NHL heritage outdoor game at half time to get those kinds of attendances. Brand new stadium or no. 

[Booch]

11 hours ago, Tracker said:

I am hoping to not lose three Grey Cup games in a row and make intelligent game plan adjustments.

we already have lost 3 in a row....and shown no ability in all 3 to stray from the pattern od failure...that killed us...

 

8 hours ago, Sard said:

2013 is a prime example of how Winnipeg fans are... we had a 3-15 team (and the games were bad, usually done half way through the 3rd quarter) and averaged the 3rd highest attendance in the league at just over 30,000.

lure of new stadium was reason for that

 

1 hour ago, rebusrankin said:

So we've debated MOS, I think its time to delve more into the performance of Walters. His recruitment of Import talent and National drafting seems to have dropped when you compare 22-24 to 17-21. Discuss among yourselves.

people dont put enough emphasis on the amount of pull they allow Osh to have on who he says he wants...and doesnt want...and who he refuses to move on from....Heirachy here is a bit outta whack at times and seems that the guy who should over rule...hasnt been

1 hour ago, Goalie said:

it’s on the opposite end of the city where everybody lives. If anything it’s surprising ppl aren’t complaining still about where it’s located. 

well...was on oppposite end of where lotsa people lived before too....and in a dump...that argument has no weight at all

[wbbfan]

2 minutes ago, Booch said:

we already have lost 3 in a row....and shown no ability in all 3 to stray from the pattern od failure...that killed us...

 

lure of new stadium was reason for that

 

people dont put enough emphasis on the amount of pull they allow Osh to have on who he says he wants...and doesnt want...and who he refuses to move on from....Heirachy here is a bit outta whack at times and seems that the guy who should over rule...hasnt been

well...was on oppposite end of where lotsa people lived before too....and in a dump...that argument has no weight at all

I think that is one of the biggest points of discussion in terms of Walter's efficacy. He can scout Canadian talent, we know that. Can he manage the football ops side in terms of being the leader of the front office and coaching staff? No doubt it is a give-and-take relationship as with any good leadership system. But does he have the ability to be the boss when required? If something unforeseen (and near impossible happened, and some one like Mos had to be fired, would he be capable?  

I kind of have my doubts about his ability to lead the leaders. 

I question his ability to accurately gauge the value of players on the free market as well. We often seem to overpay guys or lose them. 

I also think we have been heavily reliant on guys like Danny, Ted, and Ringmaiden to bring in fresh import talent. It seemed like our ability to scout DL, Lbers, and Imp OL left with ringmaiden. I wonder if our ability to find WRs has left with Ted?

[HardCoreBlue]

12 hours ago, Tracker said:

I am hoping to not lose three Grey Cup games in a row and make intelligent game plan adjustments.

Well I think you're going to be disappointed.