2024/2025 Blue Bombers Off-Season Thread

[Noeller]

I worry about a guy doing all 3 and then each individual discipline isn't as good as it would be if he was just doing one thing. Also they really seem to love the Aussie for whatever reason. But... I'll be curious to see if they make a change. We thought they were married to Jackson and he was tossed with very little regard, so maybe...?? 

[Super Duper Negatron]

Could they not tell Sheehan to work on his distance/hangtime with a more traditional punting motion, and keep the other stuff in his back pocket for special occasions? He is clearly a good athlete and I have seen him boom the odd punt so he has the leg.

[17to85]

If we're punting from midfield I got a lot of faith in the aussie to find the corner and pin a team deep.... but punting from our own end? I expect to give up a field goal minimum.

[Booch]

41 minutes ago, Noeller said:

I worry about a guy doing all 3 and then each individual discipline isn't as good as it would be if he was just doing one thing. Also they really seem to love the Aussie for whatever reason. But... I'll be curious to see if they make a change. We thought they were married to Jackson and he was tossed with very little regard, so maybe...?? 

Medlock

39 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

If we're punting from midfield I got a lot of faith in the aussie to find the corner and pin a team deep.... but punting from our own end? I expect to give up a field goal minimum.

sometimes tho even from the ball snapped from mid fielld...he was hard pressed to get it inside the 20...25....and more times than not if we had the ball at the other teams 50...or slightly beyond...we went field goal.....thats telling right there in my opibion...it's nice to have truct in a guy to most times hit that shot....but in the CFL...thats a gamble everytime to give up 6 the other way....or a huge return pretty much into scoring range

[JuranBoldenRules]

1 hour ago, 17to85 said:

If we're punting from midfield I got a lot of faith in the aussie to find the corner and pin a team deep.... but punting from our own end? I expect to give up a field goal minimum.

Interesting thing in the league this year is basically every team was within a couple yards net on punts, most between 37-38 including Sheehan/Bombers.

So really you'd have the same feeling with any punter in the league at the moment.

[Arnold_Palmer]

Just now, JuranBoldenRules said:

Interesting thing in the league this year is basically every team was within a couple yards net on punts, most between 37-38 including Sheehan/Bombers.

So really you'd have the same feeling with any punter in the league at the moment.

Yeah the kick coverage was pretty good for the bombers almost all year. In all fairness instead of big booming kicks that set up a longer return we has low line drives that were stopped for minimal yards gained after the catch. I guess it’s all relative in the end. 

[Booch]

Just now, JuranBoldenRules said:

Interesting thing in the league this year is basically every team was within a couple yards net on punts, most between 37-38 including Sheehan/Bombers.

So really you'd have the same feeling with any punter in the league at the moment.

yeah net is fine....but when Punter A punts from his 35 and pounds it to the 10....with a net return of say 10 yards to get them to the 20...and Punter B....our guy pounds it to the 25.....that same avg net just lost you 15 yards...that happened....all the time....so the net is irrelevant

[JuranBoldenRules]

1 hour ago, Mark H. said:

I think some of you are underrating Castillo's contributions. I don't think they finish first without him.

Well we for sure lost two games because he couldn't make pretty routine kicks.  So I guess that makes up for the exceptional things he did.

Yeah can blame the O for not finishing drives, but kicker needs to do his part.

Also...not good at kickoffs.

I wouldn't have been rushing to re-sign him, but there's not a ton of Canadian kickers around right now either.

2 minutes ago, Booch said:

yeah net is fine....but when Punter A punts from his 35 and pounds it to the 10....with a net return of say 10 yards to get them to the 20...and Punter B....our guy pounds it to the 25.....that same avg net just lost you 15 yards...that happened....all the time....so the net is irrelevant

Based on this description...you don't know wtf net is.

[Booch]

3 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

Well we for sure lost two games because he couldn't make pretty routine kicks.  So I guess that makes up for the exceptional things he did.

Yeah can blame the O for not finishing drives, but kicker needs to do his part.

Also...not good at kickoffs.

I wouldn't have been rushing to re-sign him, but there's not a ton of Canadian kickers around right now either.

Based on this description...you don't know wtf net is.

I'm talking about ability to punt...sorry I meant to say avg return gave up....who cars if u at league avg if u not getting the ball deep...excuse me for not clarifying what I meant.....fact of the matter....he sucks as a guy to punt you put of trouble

 

Edited 3 hours ago by Booch

[JuranBoldenRules]

1 minute ago, Booch said:

I'm talking about ability to punt...sorry I meant to say avg return gace up....who cars if u at league avg if u not getting the ball deep...excuse me for not clarifying what I meant.....fact of the matter....he sucks as a guy to punt yhou put of trouble

 

The end result is the same if you kick it 60 yards and have it returned 25 yards or kick it 42 and have it returned 7.

Nobody "punts out of trouble" and basically never have in Canadian Football.  That's a US thing with the narrow field to just ******* hammer one 70 yards.

Julien beat everyone in the league by about 10 yards per punt and his net average is just the same as everyone else.

Edited 3 hours ago by JuranBoldenRules

[Booch]

Just now, JuranBoldenRules said:

The end result is the same if you kick it 60 yards and have it returned 25 yards or kick it 42 and have it returned 7.

Nobody "punts out of trouble" and basically never have in Canadian Football.  That's a US thing with the narrow field to just ******* hammer one 70 yards.

nobody piunts out of trouble...nobody can kick a ball out of scoring range?...ok.....carry on

 TEAM NET PUNTING—The formula for team net punting is yards punted minus return yards minus touchbacks on punts times 20 with the total then divided by the number of punts.

so if the league avg is 8 yards per return.....and for example team A boots a ball 65 yarDs from the same spot as team B kicks it for 45 yards....each returning team returns it 8....who's better off....riddle me that genius

[JuranBoldenRules]

Just now, Booch said:

nobody piunts out of trouble...nobody can kick a ball out of scoring range?...ok.....carry on

 TEAM NET PUNTING—The formula for team net punting is yards punted minus return yards minus touchbacks on punts times 20 with the total then divided by the number of punts.

so if the league avg is 8 yards per return.....and for example team A boots a ball 65 yarDs from the same spot as team B kicks it for 45 yards....each returning team returns it 8....who's better off....riddle me that genius

You don't understand at all.  I'm not talking about return average, we're talking about the punt teams.

Every team in the league on average gained between 37-40 net yards of field position on a punt.  Whether that punt went 80 yards or 38 yards before it was touched by the other team/bounced out of bounds isn't really relevant.

Net is punt distance - return.

They don't include penalties in the CFL league stats for special teams.

You know what net income is?  Same concept.

[ShyGuy]

4 minutes ago, Booch said:

nobody piunts out of trouble...nobody can kick a ball out of scoring range?...ok.....carry on

 TEAM NET PUNTING—The formula for team net punting is yards punted minus return yards minus touchbacks on punts times 20 with the total then divided by the number of punts.

so if the league avg is 8 yards per return.....and for example team A boots a ball 65 yarDs from the same spot as team B kicks it for 45 yards....each returning team returns it 8....who's better off....riddle me that genius

This is why you use a metric like net avg per team, instead of each teams punt distance average and league average return yards.

The team punting the ball 65 yards isn't giving up 8 yards per return.

[JuranBoldenRules]

If our special teams were as bad as some say they were it's a wonder we didn't give up 55 points a game.

But with some of the math skills going around maybe they thought we did give up that many points.

[Booch]

6 minutes ago, ShyGuy said:

This is why you use a metric like net avg per team, instead of each teams punt distance average and league average return yards.

The team punting the ball 65 yards isn't giving up 8 yards per return.

depends on how you want to analyze or grade your team....same with a lot of metrics and why a lot are not used too....especially with defensive stats

Fact of the matter.....if kicking from shadow of my goal post I want a punter who can buckle down....and punt the ball past mid field...aka punting your team out of trouble...and out of scoring range....Our guy cant....plain and simple...how may times did we see teams get back ball from us in field goal range ?...too many.....He just not good enough

 

[JuranBoldenRules]

1 minute ago, Booch said:

depends on how you want to analyze or grade your team....same with a lot of metrics and why a lot are not used too....especially with defensive stats

Fact of the matter.....if kicking from shadow of my goal post I want a punter who can buckle down....and punt the ball past mid field...aka punting your team out of trouble...and out of scoring range....Our guy cant....plain and simple...how may times did we see teams get back ball from us in field goal range ?...too many.....He just not good enough

 

Name a punter in the league who did that.

And while we're in fantasy land...I'll take a QB who only throws TD passes and a RB who never fumbles!

[Noeller]

 

 

[ShyGuy]

39 minutes ago, Booch said:

depends on how you want to analyze or grade your team....same with a lot of metrics and why a lot are not used too....especially with defensive stats

Fact of the matter.....if kicking from shadow of my goal post I want a punter who can buckle down....and punt the ball past mid field...aka punting your team out of trouble...and out of scoring range....Our guy cant....plain and simple...how may times did we see teams get back ball from us in field goal range ?...too many.....He just not good enough

 

Feel free to look back at drive data and chart it out yourself.

If you want to set the bar of "get the ball back immediately in field goal range" as starting beyond your 41 but before the oppoennts 20 (the league charts opponent drive start at own 1-20, own 20-40, own 41-54, opp 55-41, opp 40-20, opp 20-1) the Bombers opponents had 53 drives that started in that range (which by quick math would be the lowest in the league I think) and this doesn't take into account Turnovers (31) or "Big Play Returns" [30+ yards] (8) but based on these numbers I think you will probably find the answer to "how may times did we see teams get back ball from us in field goal range" is "not as often as other teams"

Edited 2 hours ago by ShyGuy

[JuranBoldenRules]

57 minutes ago, Noeller said:

 

 

Or don't ignore the % and realize Paredes put up that number in 20 fewer field goal attempts!  Paredes is the only other guy close to Castillo in average distance.  He'd run away with this # if you balance it per attempt.  Whyte had 11 fewer attempts so if you extrapolate that to Castillo's FGA's, Castillo would be roughly tied for 3rd in the league with Hajrullahu, maybe a notch above due to distance of attempts.

 

[rebusrankin]

How many did Castillo miss between 30-40? How did that compare to other kickers? I like him well enough but hope he took a paycut.

[JuranBoldenRules]

11 minutes ago, rebusrankin said:

How many did Castillo miss between 30-40? How did that compare to other kickers? I like him well enough but hope he took a paycut.

Missed 7 between 40 and 50 which were the killers.

[wbbfan]

4 hours ago, Noeller said:

I worry about a guy doing all 3 and then each individual discipline isn't as good as it would be if he was just doing one thing. Also they really seem to love the Aussie for whatever reason. But... I'll be curious to see if they make a change. We thought they were married to Jackson and he was tossed with very little regard, so maybe...?? 

Castillo did all 3 very well previously. Thing is, the more you punt the less you kick off and kick fgs. The more fgs you kick the less you kick off and punt. Shouldn’t be a problem imo unless you’re some really mediocre team that punts or kicks fgs all the time and have a punter with cardio problems. 
 

2 hours ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

The end result is the same if you kick it 60 yards and have it returned 25 yards or kick it 42 and have it returned 7.

Nobody "punts out of trouble" and basically never have in Canadian Football.  That's a US thing with the narrow field to just ******* hammer one 70 yards.

Julien beat everyone in the league by about 10 yards per punt and his net average is just the same as everyone else.

Thing is, just because you kick it 65 doesn’t mean the return team will get all that in extra yards. 
 It’s an opportunity for both sides. Punting as we do is also a risk. One missed tackle and suddenly that 40 yard net turns into 15-20. Missing one tackle on a long punt isn’t as punishing. 
 

If you don’t have guys who can win the race down field at a depth of 50-60, you likely aren’t winning at 40 yards either. 
 

I think we have the horses to get down field and get more field position. I also think if we got a better punter we could kick the same depth, but with more hang time and still increase our net punting. 
 

Our lead in net punting yards is a testament to the goats ability to craft a system around the pieces we have that works optimally for us. We don’t know if he could do better with a bigger leg. I do believe he could though. 

38 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

Missed 7 between 40 and 50 which were the killers.

Correct me if I’m wrong but I believe a couple of those were with the chipped balls yeah? 
 

I think Castillo will have a better % next year. I trust that leg. 

[ShyGuy]

1 hour ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

Or don't ignore the % and realize Paredes put up that number in 20 fewer field goal attempts!  Paredes is the only other guy close to Castillo in average distance.  He'd run away with this # if you balance it per attempt.  Whyte had 11 fewer attempts so if you extrapolate that to Castillo's FGA's, Castillo would be roughly tied for 3rd in the league with Hajrullahu, maybe a notch above due to distance of attempts.

 

It's hard to say if the FGA attempts extrapolated over would have much of a different. I don't know the math behind the stat but based on the title "points above expected" I would expect it to be cumulative. So each attempt would be considered individually.

If say you have a 30 yard attempt, you can never have a 100% make rate, but that is probably what, 98% say, so your expected points on a 30 yard field goal would be 3 * .98 = 2.94. So if you make that your points above expected would be 3 - 2.94 = 0.06. But if you were to miss it you would be -2.94.

But if you have a 60 yard attempt, the make rate would be closer to say... 25%? So the expected points would be 3 * .25 = .75, so your points above expectation would be 2.25, but if you were to miss you would only be .75 in the red... but most kickers wouldn't need to worry about that because they wouldn't even be trotted out for that attempt.

[JuranBoldenRules]

5 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

Castillo did all 3 very well previously. Thing is, the more you punt the less you kick off and kick fgs. The more fgs you kick the less you kick off and punt. Shouldn’t be a problem imo unless you’re some really mediocre team that punts or kicks fgs all the time and have a punter with cardio problems. 
 

Thing is, just because you kick it 65 doesn’t mean the return team will get all that in extra yards. 
 It’s an opportunity for both sides. Punting as we do is also a risk. One missed tackle and suddenly that 40 yard net turns into 15-20. Missing one tackle on a long punt isn’t as punishing. 
 

If you don’t have guys who can win the race down field at a depth of 50-60, you likely aren’t winning at 40 yards either. 
 

I think we have the horses to get down field and get more field position. I also think if we got a better punter we could kick the same depth, but with more hang time and still increase our net punting. 
 

Our lead in net punting yards is a testament to the goats ability to craft a system around the pieces we have that works optimally for us. We don’t know if he could do better with a bigger leg. I do believe he could though. 

Correct me if I’m wrong but I believe a couple of those were with the chipped balls yeah? 
 

I think Castillo will have a better % next year. I trust that leg. 

Think we have to realize that a 15-20 years ago 32 yards net was the goal of any punt team as an average.  Now the entire league is basically at 37 yards net.  The kicking game has evolved a lot.  And it's not just about hammering the ball.  This mythical "kick out of trouble" stuff is bunk in this code and not even really possible anymore with the out of bounds rules.  Teams used to concede the safety basically any time they were scrimmaging inside their own 15.  Now they kick more hoping to give up 3 and not 5-9 (safety and another score).

6 minutes ago, ShyGuy said:

It's hard to say if the FGA attempts extrapolated over would have much of a different. I don't know the math behind the stat but based on the title "points above expected" I would expect it to be cumulative. So each attempt would be considered individually.

If say you have a 30 yard attempt, you can never have a 100% make rate, but that is probably what, 98% say, so your expected points on a 30 yard field goal would be 3 * .98 = 2.94. So if you make that your points above expected would be 3 - 2.94 = 0.06. But if you were to miss it you would be -2.94.

But if you have a 60 yard attempt, the make rate would be closer to say... 25%? So the expected points would be 3 * .25 = .75, so your points above expectation would be 2.25, but if you were to miss you would only be .75 in the red... but most kickers wouldn't need to worry about that because they wouldn't even be trotted out for that attempt.

Yeah lose points with more opportunity potentially, but for Paredes quite likely he maintains the make % on 20 more kicks and his average distance is basically the same as Castillo.

Castillo definitely cashed in on those 60 yarders in the xP calculation.

It's a nice luxury to have a guy who can make those kicks.  But if I had to pick a guy to make a 45 yarder to win the game it wouldn't be Castillo.

[JohnnyAbonny]

I’ve heard it mentioned here and there, but does anyone else think our long snapping maybe had something to do with some of the goofier looking punts and missed FG’s? 
I know the Godly Wind winning FG actually had a bad snap that was brought back in by the holder  

Maybe time to move past Benson?