2024/2025 CFL (non-Bomber) Off-Season Thread

[GCn20]

11 hours ago, Mike said:

I do agree that the receiver position seems very fluid. Almost more about opportunity than anything. Curious to see who the next batch of guys is that enters the league this season, hoping one of them is a Bomber

I hope our scouting has one more Dalton waiting in the wings.

Just now, Mark H. said:

Agreed. To be determined to an extent. But some scouts and the GM are still here.

For sure. Just saying that we have seen a couple of our new guys with other teams but not sure who is on their recruitment record.

11 hours ago, Pete said:

its interesting in looking at the stats of the two players that have reset the wr market Lewis and lawler

Lewis in 6 seasons has hit 1000 yds  only 3 times, average per season 1033

Lawler in 5 seasons has done it ONCE, averages 822 yds per season

In the past two seasons since the market reset. Hardy, Hollins, White and Begelton and surprise Demski have all had more receiving yards.

It just doesn't pay to invest in any one receiver the $ these two have and continue to make.

If all you value out of receivers is yardage then you have a point. Lewis and Lawler get paid for being game breakers. I guess that is what the GMs around the league value more.

[Booch]

13 hours ago, 17to85 said:

Yeah we know, you hate Jake Thomas. You've hated him forever. There were a brief couple years you begrudgingly gave him credit as serviceable but we know, you hate the guy and are letting his presence cloud your every view.

u think he should be on end???....gimme a break

I did say yup he was a good depth piece..6 to 8 reps a game.....other than that....he's done nothing really of any significance other than stay healthy...but that also a direct result of not being a guy who gets in there and just makes plays and has multiple guys defemding him....hardly clouding judgement by any stretch

He's a good guy...he's not a good player since 2022 

[GCn20]

1 minute ago, Booch said:

u think he should be on end???....gimme a break

I did say yup he was a good depth piece..6 to 8 reps a game.....other than that....he's done nothing really of any significance other than stay healthy...but that also a direct result of not being a guy who gets in there and just makes plays and has multiple guys defemding him....hardly clouding judgement by any stretch

He's a good guy...he's not a good player since 2022 

I agree with you on JT. Last year's injury to Lawson really threw him into way more reps than he should have had.

[blue85gold]

7 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

I agree with you on JT. Last year's injury to Lawson really threw him into way more reps than he should have had.

For sure. They signed Lawson to starter level money. He would have been the guy.

[Booch]

as it sits right now roster wise...with who we have brought back I think our best dline config would be not counting who we may still bring in in FA and some the new signings...would be WJ and Vaughters  with Person rotating....A mix of Lawson/Woods/Adams as your interior main rep absorbers, and let Samson break camp as the 7th guy

Allows your younger guys with the potential to rep rep rep....and allow you to see what they are projecting to be, and gives you some real flexibility with how you can deploy Adams and Vaughters.....Especially if we go National at safety and SAM....We arent DT dependent to the ratio..Stash JT on the PR....Or 6 game him if he agrees to it....like Miller and have him there just in case...he is not the future moving forward...isnt even the now....but has value as deep depth if someone goes down knowing we can plunk him in and he will get in the way of a play here and there...let the young guys develop, or show they arent good enough and bring in someone until you find it

 

[17to85]

33 minutes ago, Booch said:

u think he should be on end???....gimme a break

I did say yup he was a good depth piece..6 to 8 reps a game.....other than that....he's done nothing really of any significance other than stay healthy...but that also a direct result of not being a guy who gets in there and just makes plays and has multiple guys defemding him....hardly clouding judgement by any stretch

He's a good guy...he's not a good player since 2022 

Here's the thing, everyone agrees about Jake Thomas... but you're blowing it up way beyond what it is. My theory is that a tubby guy who gets by just because he was an effort player his whole career is really offensive to you who values athleticism more than most.

[Booch]

3 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Here's the thing, everyone agrees about Jake Thomas... but you're blowing it up way beyond what it is. My theory is that a tubby guy who gets by just because he was an effort player his whole career is really offensive to you who values athleticism more than most.

I value skill....usefulness....production...and progression.....he has limited at best of any of that now.....thats the issue....and he taking reps just slows the development of others and the ability to roster a diff player who can have use on ST's...in rotation somewhere...and offers upside

Has nothing to do with his fat sloppy appearance and trotting around gasping for air

Warren Sapp looked like a ball of turd...and there been others...but they were athletic and made plays....just as people discount a guy for being smaller....if they have skill and athleticism and make plays...play them...I have made that argument as well for a small guy if you wanna cherry pick assumed beliefs I have

JT really other than being a marginal depth piece at best now offers not much else....let a young guy do that...with upside...and cheaper....not sure how that doesn't make sense ...good sense...and makes our roster better...and frees up some money...maybe not tons....but 30k at the very lesst that could bee the difference to keeping say a Lawler or Dobson

[JuranBoldenRules]

13 hours ago, Mike said:

I do agree that the receiver position seems very fluid. Almost more about opportunity than anything. Curious to see who the next batch of guys is that enters the league this season, hoping one of them is a Bomber

Now that our US scouting department has more sober hours we can hope.

[HardCoreBlue]

1 hour ago, Booch said:

u think he should be on end???....gimme a break

I did say yup he was a good depth piece..6 to 8 reps a game.....other than that....he's done nothing really of any significance other than stay healthy...but that also a direct result of not being a guy who gets in there and just makes plays and has multiple guys defemding him....hardly clouding judgement by any stretch

He's a good guy...he's not a good player since 2022 

Your last sentence sums it up nicely. No hate, just reality, tough decisions, tough love part of the role of a professional coach unfortunately.

[Booch]

1 minute ago, HardCoreBlue said:

Your last sentence sums it up nicely. No hate, just reality, tough decisions, tough love part of the role of a professional coach unfortunately.

yeah dont dislike the person ....just dislike the player he is now since basically our 2019 Cup win.....happens to every player...I Like Biggie...know him...trained with him....but he shouldnt be on the field either....even as a depth rotation guy....He has no upside and shouldnt be looked at for the future...so why delay the inevitable and block a young guys development...or just a better player with yrs still ahead of them

[HardCoreBlue]

3 minutes ago, Booch said:

yeah dont dislike the person ....just dislike the player he is now since basically our 2019 Cup win.....happens to every player...I Like Biggie...know him...trained with him....but he shouldnt be on the field either....even as a depth rotation guy....He has no upside and shouldnt be looked at for the future...so why delay the inevitable and block a young guys development...or just a better player with yrs still ahead of them

I love your zen here.

The chamomile tea must be working.

[Brandon]

18 minutes ago, Booch said:

yeah dont dislike the person ....just dislike the player he is now since basically our 2019 Cup win.....happens to every player...I Like Biggie...know him...trained with him....but he shouldnt be on the field either....even as a depth rotation guy....He has no upside and shouldnt be looked at for the future...so why delay the inevitable and block a young guys development...or just a better player with yrs still ahead of them

Something something Wally Buono would get rid of players before they declined something something.....     

 

[17to85]

1 hour ago, Booch said:

Has nothing to do with his fat sloppy appearance and trotting around gasping for air

Warren Sapp looked like a ball of turd...and there been others...but they were athletic and made plays...

Which is my entire point. It's the fact that Thomas has never been an athletic explosive player... and you've always dismissed him for that even when he was useful. 

You have a type of player that you always go to bat for no matter what and it ain't the guys who carve out a career despite their less than impressive athleticism. 

 

Again all I'm saying is you're really letting the Thomas thing get blown up way more than it is. I'd have tossed him aside years ago too, but it's not as disastrous and scandalous and all telling about everything as some people make it seem.

 

[Booch]

7 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Which is my entire point. It's the fact that Thomas has never been an athletic explosive player... and you've always dismissed him for that even when he was useful. 

You have a type of player that you always go to bat for no matter what and it ain't the guys who carve out a career despite their less than impressive athleticism. 

 

Again all I'm saying is you're really letting the Thomas thing get blown up way more than it is. I'd have tossed him aside years ago too, but it's not as disastrous and scandalous and all telling about everything as some people make it seem.

 

and hence....not very good......you can look like him and be uber athletic...explosive.....my  experience is you put best players out there...rgardless of color..race...nationality and SKILL....nothing given...and everything earned...and maintained

[greenrider55]

Adam Auclair to BC.

(sorry to derail the Jake Thomas discourse  )

[GCn20]

5 minutes ago, greenrider55 said:

Adam Auclair to BC.

(sorry to derail the Jake Thomas discourse  )

Meh...I guess BC must see something in him...not sure what.

[wbbfan]

1 hour ago, 17to85 said:

Here's the thing, everyone agrees about Jake Thomas... but you're blowing it up way beyond what it is. My theory is that a tubby guy who gets by just because he was an effort player his whole career is really offensive to you who values athleticism more than most.

did you watch him play off the ball last year? He seriously could barely get to the OL before the ball was out more times than I could count. I don't think you understand how critical giving up a free man advantage is in both the run game and pass rush. 

In our system we NEED to get pressure with 3-4 guys. No one can get pressure with 2 guys actually getting into the rush, and 3 guys requires a lot of work, game planning and talent. 

 

In our split field drop 6 package, a 40 front with jake on it means with the RB, every other guy gets double-teamed. (and every team was running chip and release at least on us.) So the C might have to chip jake late, but opens hard with the G on woods. WJ gets straight double teamed on his side by G and T full time. Then the end on the other side gets chipped deep into the tackles wheel house but the RB. No pass rusher in this league today can consistently win a double team and create pressure. 

 If you watch the highlights of him you see a ton of the C shading towards him, and chipping the other DT first. You see him being steered and contacting 2 ol on some plays, usually when the ball is already out.

If your NT doesn't have the C moving backwards, or have his hands on 2 ol keeping them off the 3T by the time the QB has the ball and is looking at his first read, your NT has lost the battle. Maybe he can get back in on the play if the coverage forces the QB to progress and wait for an opening or timing on another route. But its like going into the 4th quarter down more than a TD. Getting the odd fg in that situation is not bad, but it isn't what you need to win. 

In the run game teams like to slide away from jake, and read willy. Which is a nightmare for us to try and maintain run fits. 

3 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Meh...I guess BC must see something in him...not sure what.

Gauthier but 4-5 years younger. Real good pick up for STs and depth. But you don't want him starting or rotating heavily. 

[HardCoreBlue]

33 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

did you watch him play off the ball last year? He seriously could barely get to the OL before the ball was out more times than I could count. I don't think you understand how critical giving up a free man advantage is in both the run game and pass rush. 

Inour system we NEED to get pressure with 3-4 guys. No one can get pressure with 2 guys actually getting into the rush, and 3 guys requires a lot of work, game planning and talent. 

 

In our split field drop 6 package, a 40 front with jake on it means with the RB, every other guy gets double-teamed. (and every team was running chip and release at least on us.) So the C might have to chip jake late, but opens hard with the G on woods. WJ gets straight double teamed on his side by G and T full time. Then the end on the other side gets chipped deep into the tackles wheel house but the RB. No pass rusher in this league today can consistently win a double team and create pressure. 

 If you watch the highlights of him you see a ton of the C shading towards him, and chipping the other DT first. You see him being steered and contacting 2 ol on some plays, usually when the ball is already out.

If your NT doesn't have the C moving backwards, or have his hands on 2 ol keeping them off the 3T by the time the QB has the ball and is looking at his first read, your NT has lost the battle. Maybe he can get back in on the play if the coverage forces the QB to progress and wait for an opening or timing on another route. But its like going into the 4th quarter down more than a TD. Getting the odd fg in that situation is not bad, but it isn't what you need to win. 

In the run game teams like to slide away from jake, and read willy. Which is a nightmare for us to try and maintain run fits. 

Gauthier but 4-5 years younger. Real good pick up for STs and depth. But you don't want him starting or rotating heavily. 

Yup. Everything starts in the trenches and works out from there. This is not an overblown issue.

[greenrider55]

45 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Meh...I guess BC must see something in him...not sure what.

I didn’t mind him in Sask, but he takes brutal angles on tackles, shouldn’t be an every down starter.

Decent enough in coverage though.

[GCn20]

8 minutes ago, HardCoreBlue said:

Yup. Everything starts in the trenches and works out from there. This is not an overblown issue.

If he is used as he was last year very problematic, however, context is everything. Last year we lost Lawson in TC leaving too many reps for Jake.

[wbbfan]

9 minutes ago, HardCoreBlue said:

Yup. Everything starts in the trenches and works out from there. This is not an overblown issue.

Line play won us 2 grey cups. Fans look at the QB, and understandably so. But both lines are as critical as the QB is. The main way of winning games in every league from college to the pros is protecting the QB, and limiting the other qbs time to throw. 

The ends were as big an issue as jake last year, mainly the end opposite willy. But willy coasted for long stretches and shuts down vs double teams. Plus he was a huge liability in the run game. 

1 minute ago, GCn20 said:

If he is used as he was last year very problematic, however, context is everything. Last year we lost Lawson in TC leaving too many reps for Jake.

Thats true. I don't expect jake to take the majority of snaps any more. But I wouldn't; be surprised if he does either. We ran out the 2 NI DL look on 30 and 40 fronts wayy too much last year. Part of me is worried we will start jake and rotate lawson with woods.

[17to85]

I mean Jake's a problem and his usage was last year for sure.... but it's not the all encompassing issue some make it seem. I choose to believe that lessons were learned last season.

[GCn20]

1 minute ago, wbbfan said:

Line play won us 2 grey cups. Fans look at the QB, and understandably so. But both lines are as critical as the QB is. The main way of winning games in every league from college to the pros is protecting the QB, and limiting the other qbs time to throw. 

The ends were as big an issue as jake last year, mainly the end opposite willy. But willy coasted for long stretches and shuts down vs double teams. Plus he was a huge liability in the run game. 

Thats true. I don't expect jake to take the majority of snaps any more. But I wouldn't; be surprised if he does either. We ran out the 2 NI DL look on 30 and 40 fronts wayy too much last year. Part of me is worried we will start jake and rotate lawson with woods.

I get your worry, but I just can't see it happening.

[Booch]

44 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

did you watch him play off the ball last year? He seriously could barely get to the OL before the ball was out more times than I could count. I don't think you understand how critical giving up a free man advantage is in both the run game and pass rush. 

In our system we NEED to get pressure with 3-4 guys. No one can get pressure with 2 guys actually getting into the rush, and 3 guys requires a lot of work, game planning and talent. 

 

In our split field drop 6 package, a 40 front with jake on it means with the RB, every other guy gets double-teamed. (and every team was running chip and release at least on us.) So the C might have to chip jake late, but opens hard with the G on woods. WJ gets straight double teamed on his side by G and T full time. Then the end on the other side gets chipped deep into the tackles wheel house but the RB. No pass rusher in this league today can consistently win a double team and create pressure. 

 If you watch the highlights of him you see a ton of the C shading towards him, and chipping the other DT first. You see him being steered and contacting 2 ol on some plays, usually when the ball is already out.

If your NT doesn't have the C moving backwards, or have his hands on 2 ol keeping them off the 3T by the time the QB has the ball and is looking at his first read, your NT has lost the battle. Maybe he can get back in on the play if the coverage forces the QB to progress and wait for an opening or timing on another route. But its like going into the 4th quarter down more than a TD. Getting the odd fg in that situation is not bad, but it isn't what you need to win. 

In the run game teams like to slide away from jake, and read willy. Which is a nightmare for us to try and maintain run fits. 

Gauthier but 4-5 years younger. Real good pick up for STs and depth. But you don't want him starting or rotating heavily. 

 

8 minutes ago, HardCoreBlue said:

Yup. Everything starts in the trenches and works out from there. This is not an overblown issue.

Exactky...some people can't actually see what needs to be seen....or actually know what to watch....no slight on them as they do not have an extensive football background....but he is just not good enough and you can see teams do specific things for when he is out there

People will challange the criticism that "I will trust in Osh as he is a coach and people complaining are nobodies) well many people here have real extensive football back grounds and knowledge...And yah Osh is a pro coach...but he has shown time and time again for over 10 yrs now, that he has favorites and values certain guys for reasons only known to him, that are not based on talent and whats best for the team and roster....It's not just a complaint here that he looks like a mixed beer league slow pitch player....tho that also doesnt help his cause either....he's constantly sucking wind....not involved....can't really go and get involved and just flat out...is not good enough anymore nor deserves to be on a roster....reality hurts and sucks...but thats the reality

[wbbfan]

Just now, GCn20 said:

I get your worry, but I just can't see it happening.

I hope youre right. If jake is the 6/7th DL and rotating in for under 10 ish snaps a game including short yardage, I think our DL will be pretty good this year. Much better than last.