MBB - You be the GM

[TBURGESS]

 

 

proven or not is less concerning to me than whether or not they can actually do the job. Every great coach was unproven at one point, just hire someone with the right qualities. 

You mean guys like: Burke, PLAP, Kelly, Hawkins, Reed, Hall, Marshall, Cortez, Bellefeuille and Taffe?  All guys who were unproven, said to have the right qualities and failed at least in their first season.

 

Sorry but your argument is terribly flawed. For every failure there is as an unproven head coach, there are success stories like Huffer, Chamblin, Benevides, Trestman, Milanovich, Austin. You're going to have to do better than that. You can also scratch Taffe from that list as his first HC job was in Montreal and he did very good things there. His time in Hamilton was marred by a clueless GM in Marcel Desjardins, and free agent busts like Josh Ranek and Casey Printers, and the failed Jason Maas trade. Also, since you mentioned "first season" in your post, if you're expecting this team to do a complete 180 in a single year, you will be terribly disappointed. It is going to take at least 2 years to make this team good, 3 years to make it elite, assuming the correction decisions are made by all involved.

 

...Did I just win the internet?

 

You've got it wrong.  For every success there are 3 or more failures and most of the successes have a good to great vet support system around them, which we don't have.  

 

I do expect a turnaround next year.  The 2 or 3 year plan is just an excuse to be bad for a couple of years.  Drafting to become a winner doesn't work in the CFL where your best players can leave for the NFL or go to FA and play where they want to.  Didn't you learn anything from the Mack years?  Vet management, coaches and players speed up the rebuilding process.

 

An all rookie team of Miller, Walters, newbie HC, and newbie starting QB would pretty much guarantee a bad year filled with potential.  Fans would talk all day about how much better it will be when they have played together for a while.  Rookie HC mistakes will cost us some games, but 'He's just learning his job'.  Rookie QB mistakes will cost us other games, but 'He's just learning his job'.   It will get better soon.  After winning a couple of meaningless games at the end of the season folks will search for stats to show how we are 'on the cusp' of a good season next year.  We're just a couple of good players away from a competitive team they will say.  If all the newbies turn out to be good, they will be right.  If one or more of them don't have the right stuff, then blow it up and start over yet again.

[M.O.A.B.]

 

 

 

proven or not is less concerning to me than whether or not they can actually do the job. Every great coach was unproven at one point, just hire someone with the right qualities. 

You mean guys like: Burke, PLAP, Kelly, Hawkins, Reed, Hall, Marshall, Cortez, Bellefeuille and Taffe?  All guys who were unproven, said to have the right qualities and failed at least in their first season.

 

Sorry but your argument is terribly flawed. For every failure there is as an unproven head coach, there are success stories like Huffer, Chamblin, Benevides, Trestman, Milanovich, Austin. You're going to have to do better than that. You can also scratch Taffe from that list as his first HC job was in Montreal and he did very good things there. His time in Hamilton was marred by a clueless GM in Marcel Desjardins, and free agent busts like Josh Ranek and Casey Printers, and the failed Jason Maas trade. Also, since you mentioned "first season" in your post, if you're expecting this team to do a complete 180 in a single year, you will be terribly disappointed. It is going to take at least 2 years to make this team good, 3 years to make it elite, assuming the correction decisions are made by all involved.

 

...Did I just win the internet?

 

You've got it wrong.  For every success there are 3 or more failures and most of the successes have a good to great vet support system around them, which we don't have.  

 

I do expect a turnaround next year.  The 2 or 3 year plan is just an excuse to be bad for a couple of years.  Drafting to become a winner doesn't work in the CFL where your best players can leave for the NFL or go to FA and play where they want to.  Didn't you learn anything from the Mack years?  Vet management, coaches and players speed up the rebuilding process.

 

An all rookie team of Miller, Walters, newbie HC, and newbie starting QB would pretty much guarantee a bad year filled with potential.  Fans would talk all day about how much better it will be when they have played together for a while.  Rookie HC mistakes will cost us some games, but 'He's just learning his job'.  Rookie QB mistakes will cost us other games, but 'He's just learning his job'.   It will get better soon.  After winning a couple of meaningless games at the end of the season folks will search for stats to show how we are 'on the cusp' of a good season next year.  We're just a couple of good players away from a competitive team they will say.  If all the newbies turn out to be good, they will be right.  If one or more of them don't have the right stuff, then blow it up and start over yet again.

 

 

Agree. I'm too tired of rebuilding after 1-2-3 years. Hire the right experienced people and fill the staff with the same.

 

I want to see the Grey Cup being held up high by players wearing Blue & Gold uniforms... sooner rather than later.

[Fred C Dobbs]

 

 

I want to see the Grey Cup being held up high by players wearing Blue & Gold uniforms... sooner rather than later.

 

 In my lifetime the Bombers have won 7 Grey Cups. Six of them were won by Head Coaches who, when we hired them, were Rookies.

[Atomic]

 

 

 

I want to see the Grey Cup being held up high by players wearing Blue & Gold uniforms... sooner rather than later.

 

 In my lifetime the Bombers have won 7 Grey Cups. Six of them were won by Head Coaches who, when we hired them, were Rookies.

 

 

Boom goes the dynamite!!!

[TrueBlue]

 

One thing I forgot to mention in my GM posting - Another reason for my desire to go for Willy is that as a free agent signee, you save yourself needing to give up picks and possible players. Sure the draft isn't deep as has been said a number of times, but that doesn't mean that there won't be players that come in and perform well above expectations. Our CDN depth is not great, so if we can land an unexpected gem with a pick that we'd have to give away, and get a solid QB in the process, I think that's the route we should take.

 

Just curious as to what makes you think that Saskatchewan doesn't just resign Willy after the DD?

[17to85]

 

 

 

proven or not is less concerning to me than whether or not they can actually do the job. Every great coach was unproven at one point, just hire someone with the right qualities. 

You mean guys like: Burke, PLAP, Kelly, Hawkins, Reed, Hall, Marshall, Cortez, Bellefeuille and Taffe?  All guys who were unproven, said to have the right qualities and failed at least in their first season.

 

Being said to have the right qualities and actually having them are entirely different things you know. 

 

Of course I understand that.  The point is that we don't know if they have the right stuff until we give them a chance and if we are wrong, we are back to square one and we have to spin the rebuild wheel yet again.  Another point is that all the successful newbie HC's have vet staffs all around them.  We simply don't have the vet staff in place to support a newbie HC to give them the best chance to be successful.

 

Thankfully it's not our jobs to know or not know. Hire a GM who can identify who has the right stuff and who doesn't. There's a reason that Burke was passed over for one head job and Marshall many for example, some guys you can tell when you look deeper whether they have it or not. 

[blitzmore]

 

 

 

proven or not is less concerning to me than whether or not they can actually do the job. Every great coach was unproven at one point, just hire someone with the right qualities. 

You mean guys like: Burke, PLAP, Kelly, Hawkins, Reed, Hall, Marshall, Cortez, Bellefeuille and Taffe?  All guys who were unproven, said to have the right qualities and failed at least in their first season.

 

Sorry but your argument is terribly flawed. For every failure there is as an unproven head coach, there are success stories like Huffer, Chamblin, Benevides, Trestman, Milanovich, Austin. You're going to have to do better than that. You can also scratch Taffe from that list as his first HC job was in Montreal and he did very good things there. His time in Hamilton was marred by a clueless GM in Marcel Desjardins, and free agent busts like Josh Ranek and Casey Printers, and the failed Jason Maas trade. Also, since you mentioned "first season" in your post, if you're expecting this team to do a complete 180 in a single year, you will be terribly disappointed. It is going to take at least 2 years to make this team good, 3 years to make it elite, assuming the correction decisions are made by all involved.

 

...Did I just win the internet?

 

You've got it wrong.  For every success there are 3 or more failures and most of the successes have a good to great vet support system around them, which we don't have.  

 

I do expect a turnaround next year.  The 2 or 3 year plan is just an excuse to be bad for a couple of years.  Drafting to become a winner doesn't work in the CFL where your best players can leave for the NFL or go to FA and play where they want to.  Didn't you learn anything from the Mack years?  Vet management, coaches and players speed up the rebuilding process.

 

An all rookie team of Miller, Walters, newbie HC, and newbie starting QB would pretty much guarantee a bad year filled with potential.  Fans would talk all day about how much better it will be when they have played together for a while.  Rookie HC mistakes will cost us some games, but 'He's just learning his job'.  Rookie QB mistakes will cost us other games, but 'He's just learning his job'.   It will get better soon.  After winning a couple of meaningless games at the end of the season folks will search for stats to show how we are 'on the cusp' of a good season next year.  We're just a couple of good players away from a competitive team they will say.  If all the newbies turn out to be good, they will be right.  If one or more of them don't have the right stuff, then blow it up and start over yet again.

 

Wow...a clairvoyant!

[blitzmore]

 

 

One thing I forgot to mention in my GM posting - Another reason for my desire to go for Willy is that as a free agent signee, you save yourself needing to give up picks and possible players. Sure the draft isn't deep as has been said a number of times, but that doesn't mean that there won't be players that come in and perform well above expectations. Our CDN depth is not great, so if we can land an unexpected gem with a pick that we'd have to give away, and get a solid QB in the process, I think that's the route we should take.

 

Just curious as to what makes you think that Saskatchewan doesn't just resign Willy after the DD?

 

http://ckom.com/story/drew-willy-starting-vs-eskimos/147195   free agent about half way down

[blueandgoldguy]

 

 

 

I want to see the Grey Cup being held up high by players wearing Blue & Gold uniforms... sooner rather than later.

 

 In my lifetime the Bombers have won 7 Grey Cups. Six of them were won by Head Coaches who, when we hired them, were Rookies.

 

Check out the support staff the likes of Mike Riley had.  Cal Murphy as Gm for starters.  TBURGESS did mention that a rookie head coach needs a good support staff with experience.  Riley had that.  If the Bombers go with inexperienced management and inexperienced coaching staff all around, it's asking for trouble.

[TBURGESS]

 

 

 

 

proven or not is less concerning to me than whether or not they can actually do the job. Every great coach was unproven at one point, just hire someone with the right qualities. 

You mean guys like: Burke, PLAP, Kelly, Hawkins, Reed, Hall, Marshall, Cortez, Bellefeuille and Taffe?  All guys who were unproven, said to have the right qualities and failed at least in their first season.

 

Sorry but your argument is terribly flawed. For every failure there is as an unproven head coach, there are success stories like Huffer, Chamblin, Benevides, Trestman, Milanovich, Austin. You're going to have to do better than that. You can also scratch Taffe from that list as his first HC job was in Montreal and he did very good things there. His time in Hamilton was marred by a clueless GM in Marcel Desjardins, and free agent busts like Josh Ranek and Casey Printers, and the failed Jason Maas trade. Also, since you mentioned "first season" in your post, if you're expecting this team to do a complete 180 in a single year, you will be terribly disappointed. It is going to take at least 2 years to make this team good, 3 years to make it elite, assuming the correction decisions are made by all involved.

 

...Did I just win the internet?

 

You've got it wrong.  For every success there are 3 or more failures and most of the successes have a good to great vet support system around them, which we don't have.  

 

I do expect a turnaround next year.  The 2 or 3 year plan is just an excuse to be bad for a couple of years.  Drafting to become a winner doesn't work in the CFL where your best players can leave for the NFL or go to FA and play where they want to.  Didn't you learn anything from the Mack years?  Vet management, coaches and players speed up the rebuilding process.

 

An all rookie team of Miller, Walters, newbie HC, and newbie starting QB would pretty much guarantee a bad year filled with potential.  Fans would talk all day about how much better it will be when they have played together for a while.  Rookie HC mistakes will cost us some games, but 'He's just learning his job'.  Rookie QB mistakes will cost us other games, but 'He's just learning his job'.   It will get better soon.  After winning a couple of meaningless games at the end of the season folks will search for stats to show how we are 'on the cusp' of a good season next year.  We're just a couple of good players away from a competitive team they will say.  If all the newbies turn out to be good, they will be right.  If one or more of them don't have the right stuff, then blow it up and start over yet again.

 

Wow...a clairvoyant!

 

Nope.  Just a guy who has seen this movie over and over.

 

BTW: The last Bomber rookie HC that did well was Doug Berry in '06.  Before that it was Mike Riley in '87.  A case could be made for Bowman in '92 but that was Murphy's team and Bowman gave it back to him when he came back.

[17to85]

But here's the thing to consider, Lyle Bauer hired some brutal head coaches (kelly, Daley) Mack hired some terrible coaches (Lapo, Burke) but Taman has done OK hiring coaches (just thinking of recent bomber types) so really it all comes down to a GM being able to identify good head coaches or not and lately the GMs here just haven't picked the right people so I'm not concerned about a rookie head coach failing here because if the right GM gets hired they'll hire the right coaches. 

[TrueBlue]

 

 

 

One thing I forgot to mention in my GM posting - Another reason for my desire to go for Willy is that as a free agent signee, you save yourself needing to give up picks and possible players. Sure the draft isn't deep as has been said a number of times, but that doesn't mean that there won't be players that come in and perform well above expectations. Our CDN depth is not great, so if we can land an unexpected gem with a pick that we'd have to give away, and get a solid QB in the process, I think that's the route we should take.

 

Just curious as to what makes you think that Saskatchewan doesn't just resign Willy after the DD?

 

http://ckom.com/story/drew-willy-starting-vs-eskimos/147195   free agent about half way down

 

 

 

 

 

It could be an important start for Willy as it could be the last time he sees significant time on the field ahead of the Ottawa expansion draft or should he hit free agency at the end of the season.

 

Is this what you are referring to?  What am I missing here?  

[TrueBlue]

Head Coach

In my eyes, we need an offensive minded head coach to right this ship.  I’d want someone who has plenty of experience running an effective CFL offense year in and year out.   I have two candidates whom I would want to talk with, Dave Dickenson and Jacques Chapdelaine.  We know that Dickenson wants to be a head coach in this league. Chapdelaine is more of the quiet achiever, and is unclear as to if he feels he is ready for the challenge and more responsibility.  Given the challenges the new coach will have, and the all likelihood that some QB grooming will be a part of the job, I would have to point my pen to Dickenson.  I would talk to the Stamps before the West Final and make it known that we’re interested in talking with him as soon as possible after the season, so that we could make him our offer.   I’m not sure what his current salary is in Calgary, but I’d believe that he is likely the top paid OC in the league, and could even be making more than a head coach or two.  I’d make sure he was heartedly compensated, factoring a significant increase in pay (in the 25% range), in addition to the cost of living increase and travel expense benefits that I would offer.

 

Pre-Dispersal Draft

Like most, I am going after Collaros pre-draft and seeing what Barker is looking for as a trade to part with him.  I’d be prepared to offer him our 2014 3^rd rounder.  There would also be a conditional 2^nd round pick in 2015 when he signs an extension.

 

*Nobody mentioned post trade with Collaros, what the deal would be to get him extended.  I’d offer him a base of $165k, with incentives to bring him to around $280k which include performance bonues and wins.  I’d offer him a $40k bonus in 2015 contingent on at least a .500 season and playoff appearance.  

 

I would obviously also be aggressively trying to work a deal with Henoc.  I would try explaining to him what he has built here in this city in his tenure, and that his best possible opportunity of becoming a stable icon and anchored part of the defense are with us.  I would reiterate that our defense compliments his style of play and to think about whether he wants to be a journeyman or a long term part of this franchise.  I’d be prepared to offer him Shea Emery-type money up front, but would go as far as saying that if he wanted to test free agency that we would of course match any offer he would get.

 

Dispersal Draft Protections

QB: Collaros

1^st set of non-imports:  Muamba, Neufeld, Watson, Greaves, Kohlert, Pencer

Imports:  Washington, Stewart, Gilmore, Anderson, Sears, Kelly, Woods, January, Turner, Wild

2^nd set of non-imports: Etienne, Labbe, Poblah, Thomas (if he’s taken then Swiston), Volny, and likely Foster

 

That being all said, perhaps Ottawa maybe takes Denmark, Edwards, Suber or possibly Thomas from us.

 

Between Dispersal Draft & Free Agency

I’m making sure I am on dial with what FA linemen will be in all likelihood become available.  I’m also on the lookout for a veteran DB, but not necessarily an FA.  I express interest in one of Banks, Marsh or Phillips, as it will be likely that one of them was left unprotected through the dispersal draft.  If the rumours about Harris indeed show that he is likely to hit the market as well. I might get on the phone to Buono to see if we could make a conditional deal happen of some sort.  I’d forfeit a rotational player to get an exclusive window to talk personally with Harris or his agent.   At the very least though, I have got his agent on speed dial so that 1 minute into free agency, I am laying out our best offer.

 

Free Agency

Primary is clearly Henoc, if not signed.  I need to make sure he’s committed to giving us a shot at matching any offer that comes his way.  My other priorities in no particular order are: Kohlert, Stewart, Ford, Gilmore and Etienne.  I’d express my interest in Simpson still and see where his head is at, but they may be dependent on what happens with Harris.  I’d be willing to re-sign him pending a physical.  Matthews will need to know as well that he still has a spot here if the NFL thing doesn’t work out.  On the Canadian side I’m offering contracts to Pontbriand, Labbe, Foster and Parenteau, although I don’t think any of those will be too challenging.  I’d offer courtesy contracts to Mainor and Suber as well, but I am not selling the farm for them.

 

We will also be pursuing the US for additional talent:

-Receivers who are good possession types, who are comfortable in traffic, and good route runners.

-Quick defensive ends that can use their hands effectively.

-DBs that are aggressive who can play man defense with consistency.

 

Draft

It is likely that we target Lavertu for his ability at centre, and the potential that he could fit into the lineup quicker than a developmental guy.  After that, I’m looking at kickers, DL, and possibly more depth in the secondary and quick guys who can play special teams.

 

Neg List

We’ll purge the list and reevaluate each player on it to see what the viability is of keeping them on it or not.  I for one am keen on ensuring any players on the neg list are made known of it by way of actual contact with the player, or with the agent of the player.  A regular review of our prospects will be done on a regular basis throughout the season. 

[NotoriousBIG]

But here's the thing to consider, Lyle Bauer hired some brutal head coaches (kelly, Daley) Mack hired some terrible coaches (Lapo, Burke) but Taman has done OK hiring coaches (just thinking of recent bomber types) so really it all comes down to a GM being able to identify good head coaches or not and lately the GMs here just haven't picked the right people so I'm not concerned about a rookie head coach failing here because if the right GM gets hired they'll hire the right coaches. 

 

DId Taman not hire Daley? I presume he'd argue that hire was all Lyle, and that Marshall in SK was all Granpa Miller. 

 

Interesting how Taman is so adept at deflecting blame.

 

So Chamblin is all Taman. So far I am not overly impressed -- I see a lot of blown decisions and quite a bit of focusing on the minutiae. 

 

Not saying CC is like Burke or Daley but he's hardly the second coming of Mike Riley. 

[17to85]

 

But here's the thing to consider, Lyle Bauer hired some brutal head coaches (kelly, Daley) Mack hired some terrible coaches (Lapo, Burke) but Taman has done OK hiring coaches (just thinking of recent bomber types) so really it all comes down to a GM being able to identify good head coaches or not and lately the GMs here just haven't picked the right people so I'm not concerned about a rookie head coach failing here because if the right GM gets hired they'll hire the right coaches. 

 

DId Taman not hire Daley? I presume he'd argue that hire was all Lyle, and that Marshall in SK was all Granpa Miller. 

 

Interesting how Taman is so adept at deflecting blame.

 

So Chamblin is all Taman. So far I am not overly impressed -- I see a lot of blown decisions and quite a bit of focusing on the minutiae. 

 

Not saying CC is like Burke or Daley but he's hardly the second coming of Mike Riley. 

 

It was widely speculated that at the time it was Bauer who wanted Daley. 

[17to85]

On another note, I am really tired of reading all these comments from people how they want to hire an offensive guy for head coach... I hate that attitude. Should hire the absolute best head coach (because it is different than being a good coordinator) and trust that as a head coach he will hire good people to run the various parts of the team. I mean for **** sakes we had a **** offense with Kelly being an offensive guy and with Lapo being an offensive guy. I want someone who is a head coach first and foremost not trying to be a head coach and an offensive coordinator. 

[iso_55]

It's opinions. If people want to hire guys like Dickenson that's okay. I have no problem with that. Who's to say an offensive minded coach isn't the way to go?

[17to85]

It's opinions. If people want to hire guys like Dickenson that's okay. I have no problem with that. Who's to say an offensive minded coach isn't the way to go?

It's not about what their background is, it's about whether they'd be a good head coaching candidate or not. I'm not saying don't hire an offensive guy, I'm saying don't hire an offensive guy just because he's an offensive guy, hire someone because they're the best option. 

[braddman19]

So, odd question then.  Has there ever been a coach hired whose are of expertise was Special Teams?  

[sweep the leg]

So, odd question then.  Has there ever been a coach hired whose are of expertise was Special Teams?  

Reinbold was a ST's coach prior to being named HC here.

[B-F-F-C]

Regardless  of what side of the ball our next coach comes from.  He must be a leader and a motivator.  

 

Pinball is a perfect example, no previous coaching experience but his players would follow him into a war. He is a motivator and was well respected by all the players in the league.   

 

This why I hope that Mike O'Shea gets an interview.   I like his attacking coaching philosophy and he seems well liked and respected by his players.    I know previous playing experience isn't a guarantee of success but you've got to think that players respect the coach who's played at the pro level vs the ones that didn't. 

[TrueBlue]

On another note, I am really tired of reading all these comments from people how they want to hire an offensive guy for head coach... I hate that attitude. Should hire the absolute best head coach (because it is different than being a good coordinator) and trust that as a head coach he will hire good people to run the various parts of the team. I mean for **** sakes we had a **** offense with Kelly being an offensive guy and with Lapo being an offensive guy. I want someone who is a head coach first and foremost not trying to be a head coach and an offensive coordinator.

But are you assuming that if we hire an offensive minded head coach that he is going to meddle or be the one calling the plays, just like Lapo and Kelly did?

[sweep the leg]

I'll give this a go.

 

I name Walters my GM. I don't know a lot about the guys who are out there, but nobody really grabs my interest to make me say it has to be them, so I go with the guy I know. I keep Moll as my dpp and hire Worman as a consultant or whatever creative title you can come up with.

 

I'd interview O'Shea, Chris Jones, Chapdelaine, & Dickenson. I don't think Dickenson will leave Alberta, so he's out. I really don't know enough about the rest to give much of a researched answer, but I've read that Jones has good personnel contacts and success seems to follow him around. I also think he'd run a pretty tight ship so he'd be my pick.

 

Collaros is my top target at qb. I don't know what it would take, but I'd pay a pretty steep price for him. Maybe a 3rd rounder to speak to him, & it turns into our 1st rounder if we can sign him long term. I like Burris too, but Hamilton would have to be stupid to not protect him, even with his pending FA status. Failing either of those options, I'd take my chances in FA to get Willy.

 

I protect:

qb: Collaros

NI: Watson, Greaves, Pencer, Muamba, Neufeld, & Swiston

import: January, Denmark, Jones, Anderson, Turner, Wild, Sears, Washington, Parker, Dunn

 

I think Ottawa takes Poblah. My next picks are:

Thomas, Volny, Kohlert, Muamba, Fitzgerald, & Sorenson.

I think they take Stephan, unless they grab a FA like Etienne to get his neg rights.

 

I'll finish my post tomorrow. This is taking too long...

 

 

 

 

[Mr Dee]

I'd be very interested in Dave D. as our new HC.

He shows me he has extended the smarts he had as a QB into the coaching ranks.

Yes, he is offence minded but it's not only his offensive moves, but the obvious smarts he displays in the thinking behind the moves.

He strikes me as a man who learns more and more as time moves on.

And for DD, this may be the perfect time in his career to move on…to Winnipeg.

[Brandon]

I'd be very interested in Dave D. as our new HC.

He shows me he has extended the smarts he had as a QB into the coaching ranks.

Yes, he is offence minded but it's not only his offensive moves, but the obvious smarts he displays in the thinking behind the moves.

He strikes me as a man who learns more and more as time moves on.

And for DD, this may be the perfect time in his career to move on…to Winnipeg.

 

Or he could move close to home in Edmonton and join a team who has a good qb under contract....