Buck's Rusty But Healthy

[rebusrankin]

We need to move on from Buck.

[Atomic]

If Buck stays healthy, we'll win football games.  Been that way his whole career and it will continue to be.

[bluto]

If Buck stays healthy, we'll win football games.  Been that way his whole career and it will continue to be.

 

somehow, i doubt that maxim will still apply in 2013.

[TrueBlue]

but they're asking him to be a pocket passer! Which is stupid in and of itself cause the guy has gotten hurt in the pocket more than outside of it in his time here anyway... but besides that, when was the last time you saw Pierce actually able to run that effectively? Here's your answer, august 2011 against the esks. That's the last time I can remember Pierce actually being really elusive and quick with his legs. Physically that guys gme has fallen a long long way.

 

Considering he didn’t play a hell of a lot last year, it’s not a surprise that’s when you remember seeing him run at his best.  If he did the right things conditioning wise in the offseason, and his physique suggests that he has, the coach’s playbook should include plays that make him move his feet more. If they allow him to be more agile and not stand there like a sitting duck, maybe he will have more success.  But like I said, he has to make smart decisions and know when to surrender a play.

[Brandon]

Pierce as a 3rd stringer qb coach I have no problem with that. I'm sounding like a broken record but to me it's desperation from Burke and instead of having a long term plan he's praying Pierce plays well and that he saves his job for another year or two.

It's kind of weird that so many Bomber fans have the same feeling of hoping Pierce goes out with a season ending injury early in order to push Burke to use Goltz/Hall. Or to at least push Mack to trade for Glenn...

[iso_55]

Oh please, Burke was lobbying HARD to get Buck back as a starter. I got the impression that Mack would have been ready to move on if not for Burkes insistence that he wanted PIerce to start. 

Burke has picked this hill to die on. Remains to be seen if he keeps it. BTW, Matt Nicholls is starting tonight in Edmonton. Reilly meanwhile is putting on a brave face. He would have been the starter here.... Chose to go to Edmonton. Goofy career choice.

[17to85]

Considering he didn’t play a hell of a lot last year, it’s not a surprise that’s when you remember seeing him run at his best.  If he did the right things conditioning wise in the offseason, and his physique suggests that he has, the coach’s playbook should include plays that make him move his feet more. If they allow him to be more agile and not stand there like a sitting duck, maybe he will have more success.  But like I said, he has to make smart decisions and know when to surrender a play.

Yeah but everyone was talking last year about the offseason work Pierce did to get in better shape as well. See it's not a case of him not playing much last year... it's a case of seeing that even when he was healthy last year Pierce hasn't been the same since partway through 2011. The guy we got initially is not there anymore. His body is too broken down to play the way he needs to be effective. It's sad as hell when it happens but people are remembering a player that doesn't exist anymore. 

 

Look I get why people choose to believe that guy can come back, I really do. We need to believe he can be that guy if we really want to have a chance this year, but I just don't think it's going to happen. Right now my hope is that one of the backups can take the job and never give it back because I think that is far more likely at this point that Pierce both staying healthy AND getting back to the level he was at 2 years ago.

[iso_55]

Here's what drives me nuts....And others here I bet. Buck still gives us the best chance to win. Trouble is, he can't stay healthy. As backups both Elliott & Brnk couldn't win so the team decided to move on. Trouble was, move on to what? The prize free agent would have been Mike Reilly but he was traded by Wally to & signed by the Eskimos. The strong sentiment here & also  by Mack at the time was that there was absolutely no way in the world the Bombers should trade their 2013 first round pick to the Lions for Reilly. 

Well, here we are with a starting qb who isn't playing. He's sitting on the bench because CFL defenses are going to blitz the **** out of him to injure him. We know that.... So, he sits to protect him & our backups have no experience.

Maybe (hoping???) Hall shows he is a capable starter. Maybe Goltz shows he can lead the team but right now...right effing now... we don't know how these guys are going to play so in reality we have no one behind Buck. And that precious pick posters here vowed we needed to keep???  Well, our first round pick (Mulamba) is in Green Bay getting ready for training camp down there next month. He may eventually show up here or he may not. The problemn is he's not here now & our qb situation hasn't changed one iota. So, not only is our qb situation just as bleak as it was 6 months ago, we don't even have Mulamba here at training camp.

So, now there's a feeling of despair. Of no hope. Well, Mack should have made that trade. He never should have let Reilly get traded to Edmonton. At least if Reilly was here there'd be a feeling of optimism. That FINALLY this team was on the right track. Instead, what have we got? A repeat of 2012. As a fan, it angers me so much that this team has done eff all to fix the qb situation. When they had a chance to pull the trigger on a trade, Mack sat on his hands worrying more about a CIS prospect  that turns out may never play a down for us than trying to actually fix our qb situation. Fat lot of good keeping our number one pick helped us. #Frustrationleveltotheroof.

[SmokinBlue]

Here's what drives me nuts....And others here I bet. Buck still gives us the best chance to win. Trouble is, he can't stay healthy. As backups both Elliott & Brnk couldn't win so the team decided to move on

 

Actually the problem is Crowton is an idiot and has pretty much always been a lousy offensive coordinator and personnel evaluator. He advised Mack/Burke to get rid of Elliott, and Brink in favor of Buck. It had nothing to do with Elliott and Brink not being able to get it done, but everything to do with Crowton not being able to get it done and not making sound decisions. Now he has made a decision that will make him look even more like a trash OC through the entire year. On the bright side, after this year Crowton will be gone, Mack will be gone and Buck will be gone(hopefully Burke as HC too). On the downside, we still have 18 regular season of brutal offense to watch, but hopefully our defense can pull their heads out of their asses and at least make a few games competitive.

[Atomic]

Lots of speculation in here but the fact is none of us really know who is behind the QB decision making.

[iso_55]

Lots of speculation in here but the fact is none of us really know who is behind the QB decision making.

We know Mack was behind not going after Reilly.

[voodoochylde]

We know Mack was behind not going after Reilly.

 

They inquired about Reilly .. but didn't want to give up a first round pick simply for a two week window to try and sign him to an extension .. to suggest that the organization (or Mack) for that matter didn't make an effort would be disingenuous.

[TrueBlue]

Yeah but everyone was talking last year about the offseason work Pierce did to get in better shape as well. See it's not a case of him not playing much last year... it's a case of seeing that even when he was healthy last year Pierce hasn't been the same since partway through 2011. The guy we got initially is not there anymore. His body is too broken down to play the way he needs to be effective. It's sad as hell when it happens but people are remembering a player that doesn't exist anymore. 

 

Look I get why people choose to believe that guy can come back, I really do. We need to believe he can be that guy if we really want to have a chance this year, but I just don't think it's going to happen. Right now my hope is that one of the backups can take the job and never give it back because I think that is far more likely at this point that Pierce both staying healthy AND getting back to the level he was at 2 years ago.

 

I'd just be happy if Buck stayed moderately healthy at this point.  I'm not naive enough to think that a mirror image of Buck from 2011 is going to emerge this season. He's hopefully made the adjustments to his athleticism, that can make him at least more mobile than last year.  If that can translate into someone that is serviceable for the time being, I'll be content with that.

[do or die]

A few things:

 

As mentioned... Pierce has to use his legs consistently, he does not have the vision and release, of a topflight pocket passer.

Obsession with keeping Buck upright ..... is making our whole approach, more tentative....from the coaches right on down....  

Can we handle any more cases of "Buck fever" - the ole "will he or won't he", shuttling QB's back and forth, no continuity, etc, 

Buck isn't that old....but there are a lot of miles on that body.....and we keep delaying the entry of a legit replacement....

Find it rather ironic....that we went from "fragile" Kevin Glenn.....to Buck Pierce.... 

[17to85]

Here's what drives me nuts....And others here I bet. Buck still gives us the best chance to win. Trouble is, he can't stay healthy. As backups both Elliott & Brnk couldn't win so the team decided to move on. Trouble was, move on to what? The prize free agent would have been Mike Reilly but he was traded by Wally to & signed by the Eskimos. The strong sentiment here & also  by Mack at the time was that there was absolutely no way in the world the Bombers should trade their 2013 first round pick to the Lions for Reilly. 

Well, here we are with a starting qb who isn't playing. He's sitting on the bench because CFL defenses are going to blitz the **** out of him to injure him. We know that.... So, he sits to protect him & our backups have no experience.

Maybe (hoping???) Hall shows he is a capable starter. Maybe Goltz shows he can lead the team but right now...right effing now... we don't know how these guys are going to play so in reality we have no one behind Buck. And that precious pick posters here vowed we needed to keep???  Well, our first round pick (Mulamba) is in Green Bay getting ready for training camp down there next month. He may eventually show up here or he may not. The problemn is he's not here now & our qb situation hasn't changed one iota. So, not only is our qb situation just as bleak as it was 6 months ago, we don't even have Mulamba here at training camp.

So, now there's a feeling of despair. Of no hope. Well, Mack should have made that trade. He never should have let Reilly get traded to Edmonton. At least if Reilly was here there'd be a feeling of optimism. That FINALLY this team was on the right track. Instead, what have we got? A repeat of 2012. As a fan, it angers me so much that this team has done eff all to fix the qb situation. When they had a chance to pull the trigger on a trade, Mack sat on his hands worrying more about a CIS prospect  that turns out may never play a down for us than trying to actually fix our qb situation. Fat lot of good keeping our number one pick helped us. #Frustrationleveltotheroof.

Reilly can't even supplant Nichols in Edmonton why do you think he'd have any more success here? Seriously Iso, I know you wanted Reilly in Winnipeg badly but at what point to you stop and admit that yeah, maybe the guy isn't the next great qb... What's the difference between hoping Reilly can be the next guy and hoping Hall can do it? Hall started game in the NFL, that's a damned sight more impressive than anything Reilly has done...

[iso_55]

17, I guess my frustration is that without a qb to lead this team we'll continually spin our wheels. It just doesn't stop. We are stuck. No signs of getting out. When's the tow truck finally gonna show up? When are we going to hire a Head Coach/GM combo that will find us a qb??? Why can other teams do it & we can't??

[bluto]

17, I guess my frustration is that without a qb to lead this team we'll continually spin our wheels. It just doesn't stop. We are stuck. No signs of getting out. When's the tow truck finally gonna show up? When are we going to hire a Head Coach/GM combo that will find us a qb??? Why can other teams do it & we can't??

 

haven't you heard, iso? there was a conspiracy at the highest levels of the league that ended up having the two Alberta teams give their QBs to the two Ontario teams.

 

[iso_55]

haven't you heard, iso? there was a conspiracy at the highest levels of the league that ended up having the two Alberta teams give their QBs to the two Ontario teams.

 

Hamilton can have have Hank. We don't miss him. He's the Ti Cats problem now. The Ray trade??? Gotta wonder how much moolah Braley paid Sonic under the table to pull off that brain fart.

[17to85]

17, I guess my frustration is that without a qb to lead this team we'll continually spin our wheels. It just doesn't stop. We are stuck. No signs of getting out. When's the tow truck finally gonna show up? When are we going to hire a Head Coach/GM combo that will find us a qb??? Why can other teams do it & we can't??

I agree that we need a qb, but I just have issues with people thinking Reilly would have fixed anything. He was as much of a gamble as keeping Elliott or Brink would have been, as much of a gamble as hoping Hall is the guy. 

 

I just think that as long as Pierce is here nothing is really going to change. They keep thinking "well maybe he can stay healthy and it'll all work out" but that's just desperate wishful thinking. Need to move on because I know that pretty much every single one of us fans is tired of the constant drama of whether the guy is going to be able to start the games or even finish the games. GIve the reps to someone else and let them sink or swim. 

 

I would also question how many other teams can actually do it anyway. BC can find their own qbs, who else can? Hamilton had to go after Hank, the Ray deal was clearly underhanded, the riders managed to get Durant to play at a good level after trying a lot of different guys for a long time, other than that it's been teams hanging onto their own guys for a long long time, why do you think Kevin Glenn always has a job? There aren't a lot of qbs coming in that can play. 

[iso_55]

We've had 5 seasons (since Glenn left) to rectify our qb woes. Haven't done it...

[Brandon]

We've had 5 seasons (since Glenn left) to rectify our qb woes. Haven't done it...

Still haven't rectified our o-line or coaching staff since then to boot....

[17to85]

Still haven't rectified our o-line or coaching staff since then to boot....

I think the o-line is coming along actually. 

[bluto]

I think the o-line is coming along actually. 

 

when a QB gets pulled for fear of OMG BLITZES! i think that the line still may be a work in progress...

[17to85]

when a QB gets pulled for fear of OMG BLITZES! i think that the line still may be a work in progress...

pfffft in preseason? Burke flat out said that they didn't have any of their protection schemes in. Never mind that the idea behind taking pierce out was just the fear of him getting hurt which is an entirely different set of problems. But if you think the bombers o-line isn't getting there then you weren't paying attention last season.

[bluto]

pfffft in preseason? Burke flat out said that they didn't have any of their protection schemes in. Never mind that the idea behind taking pierce out was just the fear of him getting hurt which is an entirely different set of problems. But if you think the bombers o-line isn't getting there then you weren't paying attention last season.

 

sorry. disagree completely.

 

i saw Bomber QBs taking more and harder hits than any other team's QBs. no, that's not all on the O-Line (the QBs and Crowton/Lapo can share the blame), but nobody can tell me that Bomber QBs were protected well.