Burke fired

[The Unknown Poster]

^^^ all about talent vs. performance

 

I'll stand by the fact that with a proper QB, we have TALENT on offence already to complement that QB. Without a QB, their performance will suffer.

We need more talent on the O-Line too though.

[17to85]

 

^^^ all about talent vs. performance

 

I'll stand by the fact that with a proper QB, we have TALENT on offence already to complement that QB. Without a QB, their performance will suffer.

We need more talent on the O-Line too though.

 

They won a hell of a lot of games in 2002 and 2003 with a poor offensive line... why? well mostly cause they had a damned good quarterback and the coach was a pretty good one too. 

[17to85]

 

 

Keep only a half-dozen players?

 

Holy undervaluation of a CFL roster Batman

 

i dunno man... i look at who the 24 nominal starters would be and only see a handful that i would "just have to" keep.

 

think about it.

 

 

 

The team was 3-15 this year.  That people really believe they were just a competent QB and better Coach way from being a contender is a remnant of the IMWT era.   

 

How can you possibly evaluate a roster properly when the coaching was so poor and the quarterbacking so bad? Here's an example, Clarence Denmark. Everyone was ready to run the guy out of town as a useless bum but then a funny thing happened. Bellefeuille took over the offense and Max Hall started to play qb and Denmark is the teams best receiver and looks like he was back into the form he showed as a rookie. That's not even going to a great OC and qb either, that's making the switch to a mediocre at best OC and a qb that even his own coaches and managers call a maybe backup qb! 

 

Across the CFL rosters don't have that much difference, the reason some teams are good and some not is always always always related to the coacing and the quarterbacking. Is Calgary really THAT talented a roster or is their coaching staff just good enough that every player they bring in is well prepared to play? They're winning all these games lately with Kevin Glenn don't forget. Now I got nothing against Glenn, he's a solid qb but he's not a superstar. Calgary has the best coaching in the CFL IMO and because of that everyone they put in their lineup looks like a good player. 

 

Meanwhile in Winnipeg we had the worst coaches in the league AINEC and few players looked good. It's not a coincidence. 

 

There are some holes on the roster, but there would be a lot less and they might even be ones that a team can overcome with quality coaching. And hell who's even talking about being a top team in the league? Good coaching would at least make the team competitive. 

[TrueBlue]

 

And we've seen Walters conduct his business, answers questions and give interviews up until now. He's an acting GM but the duties are still the same as they would be anyways.

His absence is just a little perplexing. I don't think it has anything to do with him not being named to the permanent position, and more to do with the kind of presence that Miller wants to make with these types of personnel moves to the media. Something I think contradicts his proposals of who is doing what.

 

Why is it perplexing? There could be a number of reasons why he wasn't there. Maybe he's out on a CIS scouting trip or something. Seems to me this is another instance where people are reading too much into something. 

 

 

An announcement like this is pretty important to be here for if you ask me.  It's hard for me to think that some sort of scouting trip or anything would be conflicting with the timing of this.

[DR. CFL]

Interesting observation about the good news bad news delivery. Perhaps similar to Buchko often being the good news guy and Jim Bell getting waltzed out for the bad news. Curious as to Bell again not being considered for the CEO gig. Someone with a on the job education for that position you might have thought.

[iso_55]

^^^ all about talent vs. performance

 

I'll stand by the fact that with a proper QB, we have TALENT on offence already to complement that QB. Without a QB, their performance will suffer.

You can stand by your fact but it doesn't make it right. How can you say a 3-15 team has talent? Sure, at a few positions but overall, not enough.

[holoman]

 

^^^ all about talent vs. performance

 

I'll stand by the fact that with a proper QB, we have TALENT on offence already to complement that QB. Without a QB, their performance will suffer.

You can stand by your fact but it doesn't make it right. How can you say a 3-15 team has talent? Sure, at a few positions but overall, not enough.

 

Take Ricky Ray out of the equation, and insert Justin Goltz, or Jason Boltus., you're not getting close to half the same results.  Sometimes a great player at a key position makes everybody around them better by association.

[Mr Dee]

 

 

^^^ all about talent vs. performance

 

I'll stand by the fact that with a proper QB, we have TALENT on offence already to complement that QB. Without a QB, their performance will suffer.

You can stand by your fact but it doesn't make it right. How can you say a 3-15 team has talent? Sure, at a few positions but overall, not enough.

 

Take Ricky Ray out of the equation, and insert Justin Goltz, or Jason Boltus., you're not getting close to half the same results.  Sometimes a great player at a key position makes everybody around them better by association.

 

 

Chad Owens can attest to that. He has become a much better receiver with RR throwing the ball.

[bluto]

 

 

^^^ all about talent vs. performance

 

I'll stand by the fact that with a proper QB, we have TALENT on offence already to complement that QB. Without a QB, their performance will suffer.

You can stand by your fact but it doesn't make it right. How can you say a 3-15 team has talent? Sure, at a few positions but overall, not enough.

 

Take Ricky Ray out of the equation, and insert Justin Goltz, or Jason Boltus., you're not getting close to half the same results.  Sometimes a great player at a key position makes everybody around them better by association.

 

 

except that Ricky was out of the equation for 8 games... and while nobody could say that the offence was as good without him, the team wasn't crippled.

[Brandon]

Umm remember kamau looking great with Ricky throwing the ball to him a few years back....

[Mike]

 

 

 

^^^ all about talent vs. performance

 

I'll stand by the fact that with a proper QB, we have TALENT on offence already to complement that QB. Without a QB, their performance will suffer.

You can stand by your fact but it doesn't make it right. How can you say a 3-15 team has talent? Sure, at a few positions but overall, not enough.

 

Take Ricky Ray out of the equation, and insert Justin Goltz, or Jason Boltus., you're not getting close to half the same results.  Sometimes a great player at a key position makes everybody around them better by association.

 

 

except that Ricky was out of the equation for 8 games... and while nobody could say that the offence was as good without him, the team wasn't crippled.

 

 

except that your backup was still miles ahead of where our QB were

[iso_55]

Bottom line though is the team lacked the talent to win. Sure coaching had a lot to do with losing as well but it's amazing how much smarter a coach is with talented players.

[Mr Dee]

It's also amazing how more talented the players become with smarter coaching.

[Mike]

Bottom line though is the team lacked the talent to win. Sure coaching had a lot to do with losing as well but it's amazing how much smarter a coach is with talented players.

 

That's not the bottom line at all.

 

He came into the season with 7 division all-stars from last year. He had last year's most outstanding rookie. He had a MLB who was well on his way to being an all-star. Hell, last year we were the only team in the CFL with 3 players who compiled over 1000 yards. We had talent and while it wasn't this world beating roster with all-stars across the board, he was given some very good pieces to work with.

 

**** happened that was both beyond and within his control, but the fact of the matter is that the biggest talent deficit on this team just happens to be at the most important position.

 

I'm just tired of hearing you knock the entire roster just because one spot on it is absolutely abysmal.

[pigseye]

Max Hall was pretty good in the previous 3 games before the season ending stinker, he had thrown for 865 yards, 5 TD's:1 INT and had QB rating of 97.93..........didn't really help much though.

 

The problem is that the Bombers are not going to have a Hall of Fame QB at the controls, they surrounded a stable of mediocre QB's with more mediocre players and that is the real problem.

[Brandon]

Lol just read the free press poll and the casual fans want PLP as the new head coach lol.

[Mr Dee]

Max Hall was pretty good in the previous 3 games before the season ending stinker, he had thrown for 865 yards, 5 TD's:1 INT and had QB rating of 97.93..........didn't really help much though.

 

The problem is that the Bombers are not going to have a Hall of Fame QB at the controls, they surrounded a stable of mediocre QB's with more mediocre players and that is the real problem.

 

Max Hall performed just well enough to come into a game when the starter goes down…no more.

In other words…he's a backup.

And...

No consideration for the abysmal coaching?

[pigseye]

 

Max Hall was pretty good in the previous 3 games before the season ending stinker, he had thrown for 865 yards, 5 TD's:1 INT and had QB rating of 97.93..........didn't really help much though.

 

The problem is that the Bombers are not going to have a Hall of Fame QB at the controls, they surrounded a stable of mediocre QB's with more mediocre players and that is the real problem.

 

Max Hall performed just well enough to come into a game when the starter goes down…no more.

In other words…he's a backup.

And...

No consideration for the abysmal coaching?

 

 

Those are not backup like numbers I posted for you, those are comparable to starter numbers.

 

And if the coaching was so bad, why did his play improve along with Denmark, Ford and most of the offense? They rose to their level of mediocrity and no more, that has nothing to do with coaching and everything to do with mediocre talent plateauing.

[Mr Dee]

Those are not backup like numbers I posted for you, those are comparable to starter numbers.

 

And if the coaching was so bad, why did his play improve along with Denmark, Ford and most of the offense? They rose to their level of mediocrity and no more, that has nothing to do with coaching and everything to do with mediocre talent plateauing.

 

 

Denmark's performance was credited to Marcel B, not the receivers coaching.

Hall is somewhat of a credible QB with a good history, of course he's going to improve…with more playing time.

 

Starter numbers leading a fledgling offence and subpar defensive scheming does not provide proof of the quality of the roster either way.

Why is it that basically the same defence can perform so well against one team and stink out against another?

Yes, execution…but also, scheming and coaching.

 

I'm not saying a third of the roster can't be replaced, but also, 88% of the coaching as well.

[JuranBoldenRules]

Denmark is a great example of Burke's incompetence.  Absolutely refused to play the guy at slot after he became head coach because he believed Denmark struggled too much with the waggle.  No thought of coaching him up, just putting him out at field WR where he's too far away from the ball to do much.  Guy lights it up as a slot after Crowton leaves, lit it up as a slot with Lapolice.

[17to85]

Denmark is a great example of Burke's incompetence.  Absolutely refused to play the guy at slot after he became head coach because he believed Denmark struggled too much with the waggle.  No thought of coaching him up, just putting him out at field WR where he's too far away from the ball to do much.  Guy lights it up as a slot after Crowton leaves, lit it up as a slot with Lapolice.

and that right there was a problem Burke had with many players. Elliott, Goltz, Denmark, probably a lot more that we aren't even thinking about too. 

[pigseye]

Denmark was about to be benched for his poor play........was it a change of position, coaching or just a wake up call? It can be argued both ways.

[Jacquie]

 

 

And we've seen Walters conduct his business, answers questions and give interviews up until now. He's an acting GM but the duties are still the same as they would be anyways.

His absence is just a little perplexing. I don't think it has anything to do with him not being named to the permanent position, and more to do with the kind of presence that Miller wants to make with these types of personnel moves to the media. Something I think contradicts his proposals of who is doing what.

 

Why is it perplexing? There could be a number of reasons why he wasn't there. Maybe he's out on a CIS scouting trip or something. Seems to me this is another instance where people are reading too much into something. 

 

Love the spin on this one with your CIS comment, Jacquie. Greg Sellinger could use your help...  Seems more than a few people are thinking the same thing TrueBlue is. BTW, I support Burke's firing.

 

That was just an example. But we all know that if Walters had made the announcement everyone would be going off on how it was proof he was the new GM. It was a "damned if they do, damned it they don't" situation.

 

And that last bolded part.... I'm shocked. I never would have guessed you felt that way. 

[17to85]

Denmark was about to be benched for his poor play........was it a change of position, coaching or just a wake up call? It can be argued both ways.

coaching to realize he was better suited to slot and that he needed some coaching to get better at his waggle. I mean seriously, how does a guy not get coached on that when he's been in the league for 3 years?

[pigseye]

And I would say the odds of that actually happening are slim to none with none already leaving the building.

 

You're now blaming coaches from 3 years ago who are no longer around for the problem this year.........the same group who were good enough to get a 4 - 14 team to the Cup game the very next year.......give it a rest already.