Burke fired

[The Unknown Poster]

Walters should have made the announcement because he is the GM until otherwise stated. Making announces now does not preclude him being replaced.

[SPuDS]

I would agree that a Wally Buono or Huffer would've extracted more talent out of this group.

That said, a Wally or Huffer would never have hitched the wagon to Bucky and then Goltz -- whether that was Mack or Burke or a mutual thing, it killed this team.

but wally did just that when lulay went down with injury... so, theres that...

if lulay didnt heal in time, bucky woulda been wallys starter..

[NotoriousBIG]

 

I would agree that a Wally Buono or Huffer would've extracted more talent out of this group.

That said, a Wally or Huffer would never have hitched the wagon to Bucky and then Goltz -- whether that was Mack or Burke or a mutual thing, it killed this team.

but wally did just that when lulay went down with injury... so, theres that...

if lulay didnt heal in time, bucky woulda been wallys starter..

 

 

No, he didn't.

 

He brought in Buck mid-season as a stop-gap between his injured starter and his green back-up.

 

He didn't sign Buck in May and say "heres the key, youre the man, now drive the bus the next 18 weeks."

[Mike]

And I would say the odds of that actually happening are slim to none with none already leaving the building.

 

You're now blaming coaches from 3 years ago who are no longer around for the problem this year.........the same group who were good enough to get a 4 - 14 team to the Cup game the very next year.......give it a rest already.

 

Denmark has had the same receivers coach since he's been in the CFL.

[Jacquie]

 

And I would say the odds of that actually happening are slim to none with none already leaving the building.

 

You're now blaming coaches from 3 years ago who are no longer around for the problem this year.........the same group who were good enough to get a 4 - 14 team to the Cup game the very next year.......give it a rest already.

 

Denmark has had the same receivers coach since he's been in the CFL.

 

I seem to recall Howell was a defensive and ST coach his first year. Was he also working with the receivers?

[gbill2004]

Interesting observation about the good news bad news delivery. Perhaps similar to Buchko often being the good news guy and Jim Bell getting waltzed out for the bad news. Curious as to Bell again not being considered for the CEO gig. Someone with a on the job education for that position you might have thought.

Bell doesn't want the job as CEO. CEO is always the fall guy when things don't go right in the organization. In Bell's current position he can fly under the radar and be a long term employee of the Bombers.

[Atomic]

And I would say the odds of that actually happening are slim to none with none already leaving the building.

You're now blaming coaches from 3 years ago who are no longer around for the problem this year.........the same group who were good enough to get a 4 - 14 team to the Cup game the very next year.......give it a rest already.

Denmark has had the same receivers coach since he's been in the CFL.

I seem to recall Howell was a defensive and ST coach his first year. Was he also working with the receivers?

You're right. Chris Wiesehan was the receivers coach in 2011 when Denmark arrived.

[James]

 

 

 

^^^ all about talent vs. performance

 

I'll stand by the fact that with a proper QB, we have TALENT on offence already to complement that QB. Without a QB, their performance will suffer.

You can stand by your fact but it doesn't make it right. How can you say a 3-15 team has talent? Sure, at a few positions but overall, not enough.

 

Take Ricky Ray out of the equation, and insert Justin Goltz, or Jason Boltus., you're not getting close to half the same results.  Sometimes a great player at a key position makes everybody around them better by association.

 

 

except that Ricky was out of the equation for 8 games... and while nobody could say that the offence was as good without him, the team wasn't crippled.

 

 

Hence the Collaros love around here. You know if you had Goltz and Boltus your team would look very bad.

[pigseye]

Montreal played .500 football after firing numb nuts and without AC......and Popp is a very mediocre HC.

[TrueBlue]

 

Denmark is a great example of Burke's incompetence.  Absolutely refused to play the guy at slot after he became head coach because he believed Denmark struggled too much with the waggle.  No thought of coaching him up, just putting him out at field WR where he's too far away from the ball to do much.  Guy lights it up as a slot after Crowton leaves, lit it up as a slot with Lapolice.

and that right there was a problem Burke had with many players. Elliott, Goltz, Denmark, probably a lot more that we aren't even thinking about too. 

 

 

Burke became ignorant about addressing the issues of the players rather than trying to coach them.  He admitted to knowing little about the offense and had a subpar OC to rely upon to try and fix the problems.

 

The fact is, a lot of the players we name who had deficiencies in their roles are on offense.  This is not a coincidence.

[M.O.A.B.]

 

 

And I would say the odds of that actually happening are slim to none with none already leaving the building.

 

You're now blaming coaches from 3 years ago who are no longer around for the problem this year.........the same group who were good enough to get a 4 - 14 team to the Cup game the very next year.......give it a rest already.

 

Denmark has had the same receivers coach since he's been in the CFL.

 

I seem to recall Howell was a defensive and ST coach his first year. Was he also working with the receivers?

 

 

He was the the defensive back coach in his first year (with Lapo).. Walters was ther ST coach then and we have an American receivers coach

 

On his second year he was moved from the defense to offense as receivers coach (still with Lapo) and Burke retained him to that position

[DR. CFL]

I know Jim Bell and he did want to be CEO. Somewhat disappointing he wasn't rewarded for his dedication and hard work.

[17to85]

 

On his second year he was moved from the defense to offense as receivers coach (still with Lapo) and Burke retained him to that position

 

which would also happen to coincide with when Denmarks game started to fall off the map right? 

[Blueandgold]

I know Jim Bell and he did want to be CEO. Somewhat disappointing he wasn't rewarded for his dedication and hard work.

He should've gotten the job instead of Buchko to start with.

[Jacquie]

And I would say the odds of that actually happening are slim to none with none already leaving the building.

You're now blaming coaches from 3 years ago who are no longer around for the problem this year.........the same group who were good enough to get a 4 - 14 team to the Cup game the very next year.......give it a rest already.

Denmark has had the same receivers coach since he's been in the CFL.

I seem to recall Howell was a defensive and ST coach his first year. Was he also working with the receivers?

He was the the defensive back coach in his first year (with Lapo).. Walters was ther ST coach then and we have an American receivers coach

On his second year he was moved from the defense to offense as receivers coach (still with Lapo) and Burke retained him to that position

I didn't mean ST coordinator. I seem to recall he helped Walters with ST.

[pigseye]

If you're going to credit Marcel (OC) for Denmarks turnaround in 2013 then you have to credit Baressi (OC) for his 2011 performance too, *** for tat.

[17to85]

If you're going to credit Marcel (OC) for Denmarks turnaround in 2013 then you have to credit Baressi (OC) for his 2011 performance too, *** for tat.

Is anyone trying to ret-con Crowton into being anything but a giant bust?

[NotoriousBIG]

 

If you're going to credit Marcel (OC) for Denmarks turnaround in 2013 then you have to credit Baressi (OC) for his 2011 performance too, *** for tat.

Is anyone trying to ret-con Crowton into being anything but a giant bust?

 

 

Gawd, I almost forgot about the Gary Crowton experiment. 

 

It is really painful, the way this organization has been run since 08. 

[blitzmore]

 

 

And we've seen Walters conduct his business, answers questions and give interviews up until now. He's an acting GM but the duties are still the same as they would be anyways.

His absence is just a little perplexing. I don't think it has anything to do with him not being named to the permanent position, and more to do with the kind of presence that Miller wants to make with these types of personnel moves to the media. Something I think contradicts his proposals of who is doing what.

 

Why is it perplexing? There could be a number of reasons why he wasn't there. Maybe he's out on a CIS scouting trip or something. Seems to me this is another instance where people are reading too much into something. 

 

 

An announcement like this is pretty important to be here for if you ask me.  It's hard for me to think that some sort of scouting trip or anything would be conflicting with the timing of this.

 

who the hell cares who makes the announcements, as long as someone makes them and takes action. Who cares if Miller forms a management TEAM where they actually discuss things together and put together a plan so they are all on the same page. This business of this guy can only do this, and the other guy can only do that, is really a joke. There are plenty of big organizations where things are done collectively at the top. What really matters is what product is on the field. 

 

I know some of you are worried that Miller will have too much power....why don't you just wait and see, rather than worrying about something before it happens, that you have no control over anyway.

[17to85]

The method Miller is proposing is basically the same one that was here when Lyle Bauer was in charge anyway, it's not a bad thing either, it's only bad if the managers make bad decisions so rather than worrying about who makes which decisions why not just worry about whether they'll make the right decisions. 

[Adrenaline_x]

What other winning cfl football teams have the CEO making football operation decisions beyond selecting the GM ?

The bombers have been horrible, top to bottom for the last 5 years.. We need to start follow winning examples from around the league....

Try radical coaching and GM experiments have consistently failed going back to rienbold, Kelly, Burke and Mack and even buck (player moves). So maybe they should stop and go " hmmm. Maybe we are the issue and should build the team with experienced cfl coaches and management teams"

[Jacquie]

What other winning cfl football teams have the CEO making football operation decisions beyond selecting the GM ?

I seem to recall reliable posters at RiderFans taking about Hobson being involved in some decisions other hiring a GM such vetoing trades, doing second interviews with head coaching candidates (iirc Milanovich was a candidate when Marshall was hired and Hoppy said no to Milanovich after meeting with him).

Tillman had to get the approval of both the incoming and outgoing team presidents in Edmonton to make the Ray trade and one of the reasons they gave for firing him was trading a 1st round pick for McKnight without discussing it with the higher ups.

Argos former owners made a trade without input from the GM iirc (Joseph trade). The Argos were a winning team until that trade was made.

Als' owner was the one who made the decision to fire Hawkins and have Popp replace him.

[Adrenaline_x]

Great examples. But the norm is not having the CEO making Hc/assistants hiring/firings . Those should be done by the GM, the one who is building the team. The CEO holds the money bag so should have some input as far as budgeting, but beyond that is should normally be hands off. Miller might be a good entrepreneur but has zero background running or managing a football team beyond being a borderline cfl player.

[iso_55]

What other winning cfl football teams have the CEO making football operation decisions beyond selecting the GM ?

The bombers have been horrible, top to bottom for the last 5 years.. We need to start follow winning examples from around the league....

Try radical coaching and GM experiments have consistently failed going back to rienbold, Kelly, Burke and Mack and even buck (player moves). So maybe they should stop and go " hmmm. Maybe we are the issue and should build the team with experienced cfl coaches and management teams"

I said that on the thread I started but was laughed at...

[Adrenaline_x]

I have very little confidence in the current management team to make our team successful in the short term. Miller announcing burkes firing and suggesting he could be back as the DC is complete bush league. Sorry.. But doesn't the GM (interim or otherwise) make player/coaching decisions?.

If we don't aggressively go after experienced CFL gms and coaches then we are in much bigger trouble then we have been the last 5 seasons.. We have been a joke for during this time while to, ham have turned from crappy teams into grey cup contenders....,

All thenWhile we continue to promote from within keeping the parts of the management teams in place that have contributed to the problem. Brutal.

Miller. Search for and hire the best GM you can find and then step back and manage the financial aspects of the team. Don't just hand the team to Walters and then tinker with it.