RDS Reports Possible Major Changes To Als Coaching Staff

[iso_55]

I just get tired of hearing it's still all Mike Kelly's fault as that was 2009 or five seasons ago. Mack had plenty of time to turn it around but didn't. Whether it was bad drafting or even just okay drafting, complete stubborness in his failing to recruit free agents or re-sign our own, letting veteran players leave only to be replaced by cheaper inexperienced guys, the hiring of LaPo, the firing of LaPo, then the hiring of Burke as HC, not listening to his staff on which players to draft & releasing Brink & Ellliott thinking Buck Pierce could carry the team, well that's all on Mack. To say he wasn't all that bad is so wrong. I'm not convinced our Canadian content is any better than it was 5 years ago..I think Miller & Walters aren't at all happy with our Canadian players either & from all the comments I  have heard they both blame Joe Mack for doing a horrible job as GM. I agree totally with them. .

That being said, I'm throwing my support 100% behind Walters as I think the guy will do fine. I just hope in 2017, we're not discussing things here with some fans saying that we still have to fix the mess Mack left in 2013 because it was so bad.

[SPuDS]

At least we now have a GM that knows how to draft CIS players.

yea cuz that henoc guy and greaves have just been such busts..

When the ratio goes down to 2 NI's we'll be golden.

sigh. such quick, comedic wit. Watson, Volney, Woodson, Dunn, Swiston are all still either here or on CFL rosters are they not? 2 crappy injuries to guys plus Aprile going back to school tells me the drafting isn't nearly as piss poor as your attempting to make it out to be..

but I mean continue to slag an ex-gm on something that he wasn't really all that pathetic at, by all means... especially when said GM relied on current GMs input in said draft choices...

the reason our canadian content is so piss poor is due to previous regimes mortgaging the future for a hope at winning now... even a complete idiot can see that..

Previous regimes? How long you gonna keep humming that tune??? Mack was in charge for part of 3 seasons & took part in 3 CFL drafts. He''s the reason we suck at the Canadian positions. On top of our lack of Canadian talent, he hired LaPo, fired laPo & hired Tim Burke to replace him which was an unmitigated disaster right from the start. Really not all that pathetic???

Kelly and I think even Taman at the end left our depth in shambles.. I mean, we had shawn gallant starting at safety for christ sakes at one point. we had no LB depth, no Dline depth behind Brown and very thin o-line depth behind the starters.. our canadian receivers were a joke plain and simple..

Since Mack was brought in, we have an actual progression plan of some sort at o-line, actual starting level LB, a plan in place to try and fix the safety spot again and some decent Dline depth in the pipeline. I think your blind if you think the talent hasn't been steadily improving. Its far from elite but its on the right path... a damn sight better then it was.. Now with Walters as the GM, I do fully expect it to improve via FA and probably same level of quality drafts.. Rebuilding the teams Non-Import talent base takes a long time when your unable to land any guys via FA and when you lose em due to crappy situations.. but this problem was in place BEFORE mack regardless if you believe it or not..

Spuds has me convinced. Let's hire Mack back and see how things play out over the next 3 years. We might reach 7 wins by the third year. Hurray!

ok clearly there is some confusion amongst the ranks here.. my comments in regards to our canadian talent and depth are by no means an endorsement or defense of mack. i liked the guy but by his end, i too was glad to see a move made. im not saying we shoulda kept him nor am i saying replacing him was a bad move.. Mack was a failure.. but one of the things he actually managed to improve on was our canadian situation..

there is a great many things to roast Mack for during his time as GM. the "poor" situation that our canadian talent is currently at isnt one of them... he took a brutally bad aspect of our club and did improve it despite contrary belief..

thats all im saying.. taman and kelly butchered our canadian prospects and depth... mack managed to get that turned around for us and i fully expect walters to continue that trend for us..

[SPuDS]

Spuds isn't entirely wrong. Our Canadian talent isn't great but it's still a hell of a lot better than it was 4 or 5 years ago. Can anyone actually argue how it was better during the last couple years of Taman or during Kelly's year here?

I still maintain that the main reason our Canadian talent isn't elite has nothing to do with drafting, but due to our failure in free agency (both bringing in and retaining free agents). That's 100% on Mack, as are many other failures. But the draft wasn't any worse than any other teams during his 3 seasons, and in some cases better.

(I also don't think Spuds is advocating for Mack, especially since he said he expects things to improve under Walters. So cut the guy a bit of slack here!)

much obliged my friend.. im glad my reasoning wasnt falling completely on deaf ears.. not in anyway endorsing mack (though i was a fan of his until he showed he was incapable of change) just that he did do solid work in starting the rebuilding of our entire canadian content... not just the o line or the d line.. all over the roster as it was a wreck when he came on board..

[SPuDS]

SPuDs, I have a lot of respect for you as a poster & as a passionate Bomber fan, I truly do but I just gotta say, wow.....

and i respect you and your opinions and knowledge but i think your hatred of all things mack are blinding you as to just how badly off our team was for canadian talent before he came aboard..

[iso_55]

 

SPuDs, I have a lot of respect for you as a poster & as a passionate Bomber fan, I truly do but I just gotta say, wow.....

and i respect you and your opinions and knowledge but i think your hatred of all things mack are blinding you as to just how badly off our team was for canadian talent before he came aboard..

 

We agree to respectfully disagree, SPuDs so let's leave it at that. Of more importance, let's just hope the Good ship Blue Bombers can be righted soon. The media in Calgary here is saying the reason that Chris Jones took the job in Edmonton over Winnipeg is the Esks have some building blocks that Jones can be successful with while the Bombers have absolutely nothing to build upon. Why would any potential head coach that is any good want to come here simply to fail, they ask? It's so disheartening to hear other media in CFL cities basically say that we are a laughing stock of an organization. But that is the reality of where we are now & how the Blue Bombers are perceived outside Winnipeg.

[17to85]

SPuDs, I have a lot of respect for you as a poster & as a passionate Bomber fan, I truly do but I just gotta say, wow.....

Stop chugging the haterade for Mack for a second and look at the situation. The only thing that saved Kellys ass in terms of Canadians was having 2 top level NIs in Doug Brown and Brendan Labatte. Without those two there was sweet **** all on the team for NIs AND Kelly and Taman were trading all kinds of draft picks. Mack did draft several starters for this team and did build some depth in some places that wasn't there before, he just had Brown getting old and retiring and Labatte being a little ***** who can't be away from home. 

[iso_55]

 

SPuDs, I have a lot of respect for you as a poster & as a passionate Bomber fan, I truly do but I just gotta say, wow.....

Stop chugging the haterade for Mack for a second and look at the situation. The only thing that saved Kellys ass in terms of Canadians was having 2 top level NIs in Doug Brown and Brendan Labatte. Without those two there was sweet **** all on the team for NIs AND Kelly and Taman were trading all kinds of draft picks. Mack did draft several starters for this team and did build some depth in some places that wasn't there before, he just had Brown getting old and retiring and Labatte being a little ***** who can't be away from home. 

 

I'll chug the Haterade for Mack because he was dreadful.That's not gonna change just as your love for the guy won't either as you pump Mack's tires every chance  you get. So, think of it as balancing things out, lol!!   But yeah, four & a half years later it's still just always easier to blame Kelly & not Mack.

[17to85]

I don't pump tires, I try and provide balance to the blanket "he was terrible" statements people like you like to make. 

[iso_55]

I don't pump tires, I try and provide balance to the blanket "he was terrible" statements people like you like to make. 

Well, you can hang on to that belief, I guess. So it looks to me that if you were running the Bombers you'd be selling the fanbase on giving Mack a chance & keeping him on as GM. To continue to let him work his well laid out plan whatever the hell that is. Or that continual change is bad so therefore  he deserves to stay & this team is on the cusp of greatness. That all that's needed at the GM position is patience.  And you'd have a huge revolt on your hands with the same fanbase. The old expression says you can put makeup on a pig but in the end it's still a pig. I'm glad Miller, Walters  & just about everybody else see it like I do.

I think what needs to be done is for all parties on both sides of this argument need to put the Mack era behind us & move on. Time to throw our support with the new regime & give them a chance. People on both sides of the Mack argument like you & I will never agree. We'll continue to go round & round so like I said it's time to move on.

[Adrenaline_x]

At least we now have a GM that knows how to draft CIS players.

yea cuz that henoc guy and greaves have just been such busts..

 

 

When the ratio goes down to 2 NI's we'll be golden.

sigh.  such quick, comedic wit.   Watson, Volney, Woodson, Dunn, Swiston are all still either here or on CFL rosters are they not?  2 crappy injuries to guys plus Aprile going back to school tells me the drafting isn't nearly as piss poor as your attempting to make it out to be..

 

but I mean continue to slag an ex-gm on something that he wasn't really all that pathetic at, by all means... especially when said GM relied on current GMs input in said draft choices...

 

the reason our canadian content is so piss poor is due to previous regimes mortgaging the future for a hope at winning now... even a complete idiot can see that..

Previous regimes? How long you gonna keep humming that tune??? Mack was in charge for part of 3 seasons & took part in 3 CFL drafts. He''s the reason we suck at the Canadian positions. On top of our lack of Canadian talent, he hired LaPo, fired laPo & hired Tim Burke to replace  him which was an unmitigated disaster right from the start. Really not all that pathetic???

 

Kelly and I think even Taman at the end left our depth in shambles..  I mean, we had shawn gallant starting at safety for christ sakes at one point.   we had no LB depth, no Dline depth behind Brown and very thin o-line depth behind the starters.. our canadian receivers were a joke plain and simple..

 

Since Mack was brought in, we have an actual progression plan of some sort at o-line, actual starting level LB, a plan in place to try and fix the safety spot again and some decent Dline depth in the pipeline.  I think your blind if you think the talent hasn't been steadily improving.  Its far from elite but its on the right path... a damn sight better then it was..  Now with Walters as the GM, I do fully expect it to improve via FA and probably same level of quality drafts..  Rebuilding the teams Non-Import talent base takes a long time when your unable to land any guys via FA and when you lose em due to crappy situations..  but this problem was in place BEFORE mack regardless if you believe it or not..

They may have been plan at oline but our oline sucks so whatever plan was in place failed horribly. 3 years we've had issues at qb and oline and it's still the same issue todoay

Plans are great, but if the plan sucks then having a plan is no better then not having one.

[Mike]

I don't pump tires, I try and provide balance to the blanket "he was terrible" statements people like you like to make.

Well, you can hang on to that belief, I guess. So it looks to me that if you were running the Bombers you'd be selling the fanbase on giving Mack a chance & keeping him on as GM. To continue to let him work his well laid out plan whatever the hell that is. Or that continual change is bad so therefore he deserves to stay & this team is on the cusp of greatness. That all that's needed at the GM position is patience. And you'd have a huge revolt on your hands with the same fanbase. The old expression says you can put makeup on a pig but in the end it's still a pig. I'm glad Miller, Walters & just about everybody else see it like I do.

I think what needs to be done is for all parties on both sides of this argument need to put the Mack era behind us & move on. Time to throw our support with the new regime & give them a chance. People on both sides of the Mack argument like you & I will never agree. We'll continue to go round & round so like I said it's time to move on.

This post really confirms to me that you either do not understand what Dave has been saying for the past 6 months or you're choosing to ignore it.

If you're so insistent on debating with him, why don't you debate what he actually said instead of debating against an argument you're making for him?

[iso_55]

Debate what Mike? Four & 14 last year & 6 & 12 the year before?? Total chaos this past season? Total failure? Incompetence at every level? Our qb situation? Where do you want to start?

[17to85]

 

 

I don't pump tires, I try and provide balance to the blanket "he was terrible" statements people like you like to make.

Well, you can hang on to that belief, I guess. So it looks to me that if you were running the Bombers you'd be selling the fanbase on giving Mack a chance & keeping him on as GM. To continue to let him work his well laid out plan whatever the hell that is. Or that continual change is bad so therefore he deserves to stay & this team is on the cusp of greatness. That all that's needed at the GM position is patience. And you'd have a huge revolt on your hands with the same fanbase. The old expression says you can put makeup on a pig but in the end it's still a pig. I'm glad Miller, Walters & just about everybody else see it like I do.

I think what needs to be done is for all parties on both sides of this argument need to put the Mack era behind us & move on. Time to throw our support with the new regime & give them a chance. People on both sides of the Mack argument like you & I will never agree. We'll continue to go round & round so like I said it's time to move on.

This post really confirms to me that you either do not understand what Dave has been saying for the past 6 months or you're choosing to ignore it.

If you're so insistent on debating with him, why don't you debate what he actually said instead of debating against an argument you're making for him?

 

if you can't argue the point make up a new one that you can and hope to sucker your opponent into that new debate. 

[Mike]

Debate what Mike? Four & 14 last year & 6 & 12 the year before?? Total chaos this past season? Total failure? Incompetence at every level? Our qb situation? Where do you want to start?

 

For as long as I can remember, I've watched Dave try and tell you that he doesn't think Mack is great, he just tries to provide balance to some of the over exaggerated claims that are made about him. And for as long as I can remember, you've never quite seemed to grasp what he is saying. But when it looks to you like, in your own words, "if you were running the Bombers you'd be selling the fanbase on giving Mack a chance and keeping him on as GM" then it shows me that you really don't understand the argument he's been making this entire time.

 

Dave has never said we should have kept Mack. What he's saying is that while he deserved to be let go, that doesn't mean he is the guy to blame for everything that has gone with this franchise. And it doesn't mean that everything he did was terrible. It's not a difficult concept to understand, you just need to actually read what he's writing because all you've been doing is arguing with him about something he has never said.

 

However, I must say ... I'm not surprised that you would reply to me in a manner that totally deflects what I said to you. Your reply really had nothing to do with anything that I had mentioned, you're just going in circles trying to find a bite on ANY argument you can get your hands on without actually ever listening to the other side.

[Floyd]

Except ISO only said that Mack sucked at CIS drafting... Which is true. Then everyone else morphed the debate into 'poor mack' zone

[Mike]

Except ISO only said that Mack sucked at CIS drafting... Which is true. Then everyone else morphed the debate into 'poor mack' zone

 

I guess you must have missed his 500 other posts on the same subject.

[Onyenegecha]

Except ISO only said that Mack sucked at CIS drafting... Which is true. Then everyone else morphed the debate into 'poor mack' zone

 

Except that the "Mack sucks at drafting" is only true if you ignore the fact he nailed a grand slam home run with Henoc, who was, contrary to popular belief, NOT the consensus #1 pick.

 

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but Taman drafted only one franchise-altering player in his tenure as well.

[Logan007]

[Jpan85]

I would considered Heenan and Butler ratio changers.

[Onyenegecha]

I would considered Heenan and Butler ratio changers.

 

My mistake - I meant Taman with the Bombers, circa 2001-2008. But definitely a valid point.

[Jpan85]

Labatte would be the only all-star he drafted.

[braddman19]

I won't delve into the whole Mack thing, but here is my opinion on the Cdn Depth issue.

 

As an organization, for too long IMHO, we haven't placed enough of an emphasis on our Canadian talent.  It doesn't matter which regime it was, but we have been settling too much on only having enough passable guys to fill the starting ratio.

 

As a team, we should have been striving to go after quality NI FA's, and drafting at positions where we could build significant depth.  (I'm sorry, but the splurge we did at WR last year drives me crazy, we are only ever going to play 2 CDN rec at a time, as opposed to possibly 4 OL).  O-Line and D-Line should have been priorities over WR/RB etc.  

 

Instead of mainly concentrating on filling the # of starters, we should have been working harder to improve the depth of our backups.  Its a sad day when a quality NI starter gets hurt, and we have non-tested NI players to fill in.  We need to do a better job of getting backups into the games, getting them experience, and properly coaching them so they will improve so that they could eventually work their way up the depth-chart, and take over when we do eventually need them to.

[blitzmore]

I won't delve into the whole Mack thing, but here is my opinion on the Cdn Depth issue.

 

As an organization, for too long IMHO, we haven't placed enough of an emphasis on our Canadian talent.  It doesn't matter which regime it was, but we have been settling too much on only having enough passable guys to fill the starting ratio.

 

As a team, we should have been striving to go after quality NI FA's, and drafting at positions where we could build significant depth.  (I'm sorry, but the splurge we did at WR last year drives me crazy, we are only ever going to play 2 CDN rec at a time, as opposed to possibly 4 OL).  O-Line and D-Line should have been priorities over WR/RB etc.  

 

Instead of mainly concentrating on filling the # of starters, we should have been working harder to improve the depth of our backups.  Its a sad day when a quality NI starter gets hurt, and we have non-tested NI players to fill in.  We need to do a better job of getting backups into the games, getting them experience, and properly coaching them so they will improve so that they could eventually work their way up the depth-chart, and take over when we do eventually need them to.

And now we have a GM who is fully cognizant of the fact that we need to upgrade our NI talent and has excellent connections in that regard...but...some folks on here don't seem to realize the benefit of that.

[Atomic]

Instead of mainly concentrating on filling the # of starters, we should have been working harder to improve the depth of our backups.  Its a sad day when a quality NI starter gets hurt, and we have non-tested NI players to fill in.  We need to do a better job of getting backups into the games, getting them experience, and properly coaching them so they will improve so that they could eventually work their way up the depth-chart, and take over when we do eventually need them to.

 

I'm not sure I agree with this... over the last 3-4 years we've had our backup NI's playing on offence and defence more than I ever remember any other regime doing.  Guys like Swiston, Labbe, Thomas, West, Sherman, Ryan Lucas, and any of our 4 or 5 NI receivers have all seen playing time on offence/defence.  Compare that to when we had guys like Daryl Stephenson, Neil McKinlay, Shawn Mayne... now those are guys who never saw the field outside of special teams.

 

What I do agree with though, is that the problem is that none of these guys ever really successfully climbed the depth chart, even though they've had the opportunity.

[JuranBoldenRules]

Mack drafted enough useless players with high picks to offset Muamba's impact on the ratio.