17to85 Posted January 2, 2014 Report Posted January 2, 2014 All i gotta say is a head coach can only be as good as his QB. For sure he didnt help his cause in many ways but he was hooped from the get go in some ways...Ever the apologist. what did Burke do that made him look even the least bit qualified to be a head coach? Lapo had the same qbs and his teams never looked so out of it as Burke did.His history as a DC, his ability to get those defenses to play outstanding. He obviously was out of his element and out of his depth here but I don't think he was given the tools to succeed.. Not apologizing, just passing along some food for thought.. QBs being shitty are an acceptable reason (when combined with all factors yes) for a coach being shitcanned in the NFL, why is it not a consideration for a rookie HC in the CFL? a functioning offense would have covered up for the other inconsistencies a bit (lipstick on a pig and I wouldn't have been happy about it, just so you know) and I doubt a mike Reilly or Tate/Mitchell would have fixed our woes... Just that it is something to think of.. just because he was a good defensive coordinator doesn't mean he wasn't a terrible head coach. The quarterbacks Burke got were so bad that Lapo got them into the grey cup game one year, at the end of 2012 the offense actually did move the ball too... but under Burke the teams biggest problem wasn't the players, it was the lack of preparation, the lack of motivation and the lack of any kind of teaching of the players. Burke was one of the very worst head coaches this team has ever had and that is regardless of what kind of qb he had. With Ricky Ray he likely still would have missed the playoffs because his teams were THAT ill prepared week in and week out.
Mark H. Posted January 2, 2014 Report Posted January 2, 2014 It's funny how often a football article is written along the same lines as what is currently being discussed here. Here's a nugget from today's freep: "Too many times in 2013, this team was defeated before it stepped on the field, due to superior tactical coaching by its opponents." ~Doug Brown~ Noeller 1
Logan007 Posted January 2, 2014 Report Posted January 2, 2014 It's funny how often a football article is written along the same lines as what is currently being discussed here. Here's a nugget from today's freep: "Too many times in 2014, this team was defeated before it stepped on the field, due to superior tactical coaching by its opponents." ~Doug Brown~ You may want to edit your post so that it says 2013. Tanks
The Unknown Poster Posted January 2, 2014 Report Posted January 2, 2014 Doug Brown has great hindsight. He also wanted Greg Marshall as Head Coach if I recall correctly.
NotoriousBIG Posted January 2, 2014 Report Posted January 2, 2014 Burke and Mack are similar -- both seemingly decent guys, both "pros" that didn't embarrass the organization, yadda yadda -- both shockingly incompetent at the Head Coach and GM job, respectively. Burke's tossing players under the bus is also on par with Mack blaming a slow start on players still getting over Richard Harris' passing a full year earlier. Having those two at the same time was a perfect storm of utter incompetence. iso_55 1
iso_55 Posted January 2, 2014 Report Posted January 2, 2014 Tim Burke thinking to himself after any game's first series in 2013 went Run for 2 yards on first down. Incomplete pass on 2nd down. Punt on 3rd Down. "Okay, now what"?
kelownabomberfan Posted January 2, 2014 Report Posted January 2, 2014 Tim Burke thinking to himself after any game's first series in 2013 went Run for 2 yards on first down. Incomplete pass on 2nd down. Punt on 3rd Down. "Okay, now what"? Add in - stare glumly at offence coming off the field, stare glumly at defence going on field, stare glumly at opposing team celebrating opening drive TD. Stare glumly for rest of game off into space.
17to85 Posted January 2, 2014 Report Posted January 2, 2014 Burke's tossing players under the bus is also on par with Mack blaming a slow start on players still getting over Richard Harris' passing a full year earlier. are we still going to try and pass this off as fact? Come on, listen to what he said, it was a flat out admission that they failed to replace that kind of leadership! The really stupid part is that the following offseason they failed to address that aspect again and even got worse givng Burke the gig. Macks #1 problem was he didn't know how to hire a coach. MOBomberFan and Jacquie 2
NotoriousBIG Posted January 2, 2014 Report Posted January 2, 2014 Macks #1 problem was he didn't know how to hire a coach. I'd put that as Problem #1B. His biggest problem was a completely delusional approach to roster management (QB and free agency in particular). Huffer & Trestman wouldn't have made the playoffs with that sad sack line-up. Well, maybe they'd have coached them into the semis, but theres no way in hell they'd post a winning record.
17to85 Posted January 2, 2014 Report Posted January 2, 2014 Macks #1 problem was he didn't know how to hire a coach. I'd put that as Problem #1B. His biggest problem was a completely delusional approach to roster management (QB and free agency in particular). Huffer & Trestman wouldn't have made the playoffs with that sad sack line-up. Well, maybe they'd have coached them into the semis, but theres no way in hell they'd post a winning record. Yet Lapolice coached them to a grey cup game... Not buying that the roster was THAT far gone that a good coach couldn't have squeezed something out of it because we saw Lapo get something out of those guys, even if not for a long time and I don't think Lapo was all that great of a coach.
Atomic Posted January 2, 2014 Report Posted January 2, 2014 Mack was a great GM, possibly one of the best of our time.
Mark H. Posted January 2, 2014 Report Posted January 2, 2014 Macks #1 problem was he didn't know how to hire a coach. I'd put that as Problem #1B. His biggest problem was a completely delusional approach to roster management (QB and free agency in particular). Huffer & Trestman wouldn't have made the playoffs with that sad sack line-up. Well, maybe they'd have coached them into the semis, but theres no way in hell they'd post a winning record. Yet Lapolice coached them to a grey cup game... Not buying that the roster was THAT far gone that a good coach couldn't have squeezed something out of it because we saw Lapo get something out of those guys, even if not for a long time and I don't think Lapo was all that great of a coach. Buck was mostly healthy, so he got at least average Quarterback play. They still had Labatte...OL was better. Outstanding talent on the DL, who were the real difference makers in the East final. The Hammy never had a prayer against that front in those conditions. ST's generated plenty of big plays that season. So I beg to differ on your talent comparison.
17to85 Posted January 2, 2014 Report Posted January 2, 2014 I don't like the way a lot of things happened in 2012 to be honest. I think firing Lapolice when they did was a knee jerk panic move and he should have got the rest of the year because they did compete better with him than without him for the most part. It was a typical Bomber thing to do. Think you're in a real good spot and first sign of trouble fire someone and start blowing things up and replacing them with someone worse. I don't for a second think that the roster was the biggest reason for this team falling like it did. It may not have been the best roster out there, but I don't think it was as bad as it was made to appear either.
iso_55 Posted January 3, 2014 Report Posted January 3, 2014 I would say that I'll agree with 17to85 that Mack's drafting record was okay. Not great, but as good as any other team with maybe the exception of Calgary. The Stamps drafted Brett Jones when others passed on him & he's a stud player. So, that sets Calgary apart from other teams. Where Mack really hurt the Bombers was his handling of free agents... both his & from other teams. Not willing to do what he had to do to retain & attract other CFL FA players that could have helped us. He undervalued what experience brings & thought he could replace older veteran players with younger, inexperienced & cheaper players which didn't work. Also, while other teams like Calgary & BC were holding a series of open FA tryout camps all over the US during the off season, he relied on a single US scout to invite players to one camp FA Mack ran. I just think that was a huge mistake. That & firing LaPo. Mack didn't have great relationships with other GMs. He barely talked to any of them.... We've all heard how Walters on the day he was hired as Interim GM called the other 8 GMS (assume he called Ottawa) to introduce himself & to let them know the Bombers were again open for business. So, based on all that the Mack reign to me was a disaster.
Logan007 Posted January 3, 2014 Report Posted January 3, 2014 Mack was a great GM, possibly one of the best of our time. Dude don't make me laugh like that while I'm eating. I almost choked.
Brandon Posted January 3, 2014 Report Posted January 3, 2014 Mack as a gm probably would get a D+ .... Burke as a coach was a solid F Mack wasn't that bad... It was Lapolice and Burke idea to start Buck for so long.
Jacquie Posted January 3, 2014 Report Posted January 3, 2014 Not great, but as good as any other team with maybe the exception of Calgary. The Stamps drafted Brett Jones when others passed on him & he's a stud player. So, that sets Calgary apart from other teams. It wasn't some great feat of drafting by the Stamps when they picked Jones. Jones told teams he would only play in Calgary.
NotoriousBIG Posted January 3, 2014 Report Posted January 3, 2014 Mack as a gm probably would get a D+ .... Burke as a coach was a solid F Mack wasn't that bad... It was Lapolice and Burke idea to start Buck for so long. And it was Mack who said he'd fix the QB position.
Mark H. Posted January 3, 2014 Report Posted January 3, 2014 I for one, thought Burke would be a good head coach. But I guess not every coordinator is.
iso_55 Posted January 3, 2014 Report Posted January 3, 2014 Not great, but as good as any other team with maybe the exception of Calgary. The Stamps drafted Brett Jones when others passed on him & he's a stud player. So, that sets Calgary apart from other teams. It wasn't some great feat of drafting by the Stamps when they picked Jones. Jones told teams he would only play in Calgary. No, that is absolutely & unequivocally 100% wrong. What Jones told CFL teams was that he had applied & was waiting for acceptance to the University of Regina's Faculty of Medicine. At the time of the draft he hadn't heard yet if he was accepted or not. He told CFL teams that while he wanted to play in the CFL, if he did get accepted he would not play football. Hufnagel knew that & drafted him anyway. When Jones didn't get accepted into med school in Regina, Jones came to Calgary & enrolled in engineering at the U of C. So, it was a gamble that paid off for the Stamps. He never said he would only play for the Stamps. He'd have played for anyone providing he could get into Engineering at a university in a CFL city if he didn't get into medicine. The Stamps gambled with Jones. But no more of a gamble that Mack took on Mulamba or Hamilton on Gaydosh with their NFL aspirations. The only team that wasn't scared off were the Stampeders. Everybody else took a flyer on the guy. Even the Riders which is surprising considering that he would have been attending the U of R had he been accepted so they may have been able to convince him to do both. Go to med school & play for the Riders.
Jacquie Posted January 3, 2014 Report Posted January 3, 2014 Not great, but as good as any other team with maybe the exception of Calgary. The Stamps drafted Brett Jones when others passed on him & he's a stud player. So, that sets Calgary apart from other teams. It wasn't some great feat of drafting by the Stamps when they picked Jones. Jones told teams he would only play in Calgary. No, that is absolutely & unequivocally 100% wrong. What Jones told CFL teams was that he had applied & was waiting for acceptance to the University of Regina's Faculty of Medicine. At the time of the draft he hadn't heard yet if he was accepted or not. He told CFL teams that while he wanted to play in the CFL, if he did get accepted he would not play football. Hufnagel knew that & drafted him anyway. When Jones didn't get accepted into med school in Regina, Jones came to Calgary & enrolled in engineering at the U of C. So, it was a gamble that paid off for the Stamps. He never said he would only play for the Stamps. He'd have played for anyone providing he could get into Engineering at a university in a CFL city if he didn't get into medicine. The Stamps gambled with Jones. But no more of a gamble that Mack took on Mulamba or Hamilton on Gaydosh with their NFL aspirations. The only team that wasn't scared off were the Stampeders. Everybody else took a flyer on the guy. Even the Riders which is surprising considering that he would have been attending the U of R had he been accepted so they may have been able to convince him to do both. Go to med school & play for the Riders. Tim Burke is many things but I wouldn't call him a liar and Tim Burke said Jones told teams he would only play for the Stamps. Go to the CJOB audio vault and listen to the last few coach's show and you'll hear it.
gbill2004 Posted January 3, 2014 Report Posted January 3, 2014 Not great, but as good as any other team with maybe the exception of Calgary. The Stamps drafted Brett Jones when others passed on him & he's a stud player. So, that sets Calgary apart from other teams.It wasn't some great feat of drafting by the Stamps when they picked Jones. Jones told teams he would only play in Calgary. No, that is absolutely & unequivocally 100% wrong. What Jones told CFL teams was that he had applied & was waiting for acceptance to the University of Regina's Faculty of Medicine. At the time of the draft he hadn't heard yet if he was accepted or not. He told CFL teams that while he wanted to play in the CFL, if he did get accepted he would not play football. Hufnagel knew that & drafted him anyway.When Jones didn't get accepted into med school in Regina, Jones came to Calgary & enrolled in engineering at the U of C. So, it was a gamble that paid off for the Stamps. He never said he would only play for the Stamps. He'd have played for anyone providing he could get into Engineering at a university in a CFL city if he didn't get into medicine. The Stamps gambled with Jones. But no more of a gamble that Mack took on Mulamba or Hamilton on Gaydosh with their NFL aspirations. The only team that wasn't scared off were the Stampeders. Everybody else took a flyer on the guy. Even the Riders which is surprising considering that he would have been attending the U of R had he been accepted so they may have been able to convince him to do both. Go to med school & play for the Riders. Tim Burke is many things but I wouldn't call him a liar and Tim Burke said Jones told teams he would only play for the Stamps. Go to the CJOB audio vault and listen to the last few coach's show and you'll hear it. Jacquie is correct. I heard Tim Burke say this myself; that Jones told other teams he'd only play for Calgary.
iso_55 Posted January 3, 2014 Report Posted January 3, 2014 I don't recall Burke ever saying that but if he did that is pretty sad. I find it odd that a kid who grew up in Weyburn, SK as a lifelong Rider fan & his family still having season tickets to the Riders would only want to play in Calgary. That's pretty odd if you ask me. Name me one kid from Saskatchewan who doesn't want to play for the Riders in front of his family & friends? If Burke said Jones only wanted to play in Calgary then that's bogus. The story I related to you in the previous thread is what Jones & the Stampeders have told the media & fans in Calgary.
gbill2004 Posted January 3, 2014 Report Posted January 3, 2014 I don't recall Burke ever saying that but if he did that is pretty sad. I find it odd that a kid who grew up in Weyburn, SK as a lifelong Rider fan & his family still having season tickets to the Riders would only want to play in Calgary. That's pretty odd if you ask me. Name me one kid from Saskatchewan who doesn't want to play for the Riders in front of his family & friends? If Burke said Jones only wanted to play in Calgary then that's bogus. The story I related to you in the previous thread is what Jones & the Stampeders have told the media & fans in Calgary. So you are saying Tim Burke is a liar.
iso_55 Posted January 3, 2014 Report Posted January 3, 2014 Hey, who knows why Burke said what he did? Mack & Burke was a **** show. Provide the link to what Burke said so I can read it as I never recalled reading or hearing it. http://www.calgaryherald.com/sports/Stamps+rookie+Brett+Jones+been+revelation+could+freshman/9050470/story.html http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yvgd4L-fKbE
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