Questions Around The League

[AKAChip]

So basically the general thoughts that I have been hearing around this and other Bomber boards as well as from fans of the other teams in the league is that the Bombers are basically the consensus last place team for this season. I realize that most of the time these pre-season predictions are pure garbage and that on paper, the Bombers do have their work cut out for them but looking over the other teams in the league, there are pressing questions for every team based on personnel and why the positions in question for the Bombers are thrust into the limelight while other team's concerns are largely ignored, I'm not entirely sure. It's probably mostly due to the fact that our QB situation is by far the most questionable in the league and that is obviously very important but I'd like to take a moment or two to go through the questionable areas of the other teams in the CFL.

 

Montreal:

 

First of all, I'm not going to say that Calvillo one year older is primed for a decline because we say it all the time and it never happens. It's going to happen one day, but to say it will be this year is very premature. There is no doubt that on offense, these guys are set. At OL, QB, WR/SB and RB there is no real issue. Whitaker had an injury plagued season which could be considered a question mark because of his style of play and Messam isn't an everyday tailback at this point in his career but for now, let's say the RB position is solid. You could make an argument that they need to replace Brian Bratton at WR but Bratton was the epitome of painfully average so I can't imagine even a downgrade of their 4th option is that big a deal.

 

The real questions are at HC and Defense. As far as Dan Hawkins goes, Marc Trestman's success in this league was a large exception to the rule. Popp has proven to be prudent when hiring Head Coaches, but history shows us that rookie Head Coaches rarely step in to immediate success, especially those with no previous CFL experience. I feel like this is something frequently overlooked.

 

On Defence, there are even more questions than the Bombers have had. Let's remember that this was a below average Defense a year ago and they have lost their most steady DB from a year ago in Seth Williams. Other than John Bowman, their D-line is incredibly unproven with A-M Cash, Scooter Berry and Ejiro Kuale by all accounts going from LB to DE. I'm not saying that these guys do not have the potential to be good but with the three of them plus John Bowman coming off a down year, why do these guys get the benefit of the doubt when the Bombers' D-lIne with two proven players in Turner and Hall plus Mainor who has had success in the league has everyone fearing for their lives? Even Gilmore has about as much experience as both of the Montreal DTs for this season.

 

At LB, SAM and MLB are obviously not a concern but with Kyries Hebert moving to WILL, is this really an upgrade over Rod Davis? We all remember how painfully average Hebert was at LB when he was here, and now he's 33 years old and no doubt slower. The secondary probably has the most questions of all. Anderson and Williams are gone, replaced by Geoff Tisdale (who had a terrible year last year) and Byron Parker (who has clearly lost a step and is in the downstroke of his career). Neither of these guys put any fear in my mind. Billy Parker and Jerald Brown have been good but not great players for the Als in the past but they are now 32 and 33 respectively this season and are above the age when DBs begin to decline. It's not like these guys were consistant All-Stars at the position anyway. I am under the impression that at S they are using either M-O Brouilette or Mike Edem. Edem is a raw rookie who has talent, but is still completely green and Brouilette is a special teams guy who I relate to Labbe playing MLB. This should be an exploitable area.

 

My goal for these posts is not to say that these teams are terrible, because they aren't. I just want to point out that every other team in the league has question marks, some have pretty significant ones. I will move on to the Argonauts in my next post.

[Atomic]

Interesting stuff although I would argue that Billy Parker was Montreal's best DB last season.  Looking forward to the next post.

[17to85]

Good idea for a post. I think a big part of the problem is that people are so focussed on the bombers that they don't pick other teams apart like they pick the bombers apart,

[Mike]

The one thing I notice about our team and the way it is viewed in the media is that everyone seems to think our entire roster sucks when our roster outside of the QB spot is one of the better ones in the league.

 

Take out the QB spot from the Eastern Division and honestly, who is impressive as us on paper? We have the strongest RB, a very strong set of healthy receivers, a couple all-stars on the DL and a very tough secondary.

 

Unfortunately, that's why the games are played. Our individual talent across the board (outside of QB) is strong but until we can get a general to piece it all together, I doubt it matters.

[iso_55]

Respect is earned & not given. Until the Bombers can put together consistent winning seasons they won't get it. I think it comes down to that. I can tell you from living in Calgary & listening to our media as well as talking to fans of other teams, the rest of the CFL thinks Joe Mack is a joke. You guys may not want to hear that but that's the way it is. And fans & the national media want the Bombers to lose because they don't like Mack. That all comes into play when teams are being reviewed & graded in pre season prognostications. The Bombers have to win. Plain & simple. No more excuses. You guys may think a 52-0 shellacking last week isn't anything but to the media & fans in other cities it just backs up what they were saying before about Mack & the Bombers. That we are a 3 ring circus of an organization with Mack being the top clown. So, if the Bombers lose Thursday night, expect that kind of thing to just get worse across the country.

[AKAChip]

I highly doubt the fans of other teams hate Mack so much that they want to see the Bombers suffer and lose. The media mayyyybe and other GMs I can understand but the average fan I can assure you doesn't care one bit about Joe Mack.

[bluto]

no... iso is right. nobody likes Mack. any CFL media i know say so, and the football operations people i know (from several teams) say so.

 

the guy isn't going to win the Mr. Congeniality trophy any time soon... so as iso says: he's got to win for the sake of justifying his tenure these last 3+ years... or else it will be written into history that everyone else was right all along.

[Atomic]

no... iso is right. nobody likes Mack. any CFL media i know say so, and the football operations people i know (from several teams) say so.

 

the guy isn't going to win the Mr. Congeniality trophy any time soon... so as iso says: he's got to win for the sake of justifying his tenure these last 3+ years... or else it will be written into history that everyone else was right all along.

 

This will make winning all the more satisfying.

 

I love being the bad guy.  **** the old boys CFL fraternity, they need to have it shoved in their face for once.

[bluto]

This will make winning all the more satisfying.

 

I love being the bad guy.  **** the old boys CFL fraternity, they need to have it shoved in their face for once.

 

exactly. i learned this last year: winning is fun, but winning in spite of the haters is even better.

[Valderan_CA]

The one thing I notice about our team and the way it is viewed in the media is that everyone seems to think our entire roster sucks when our roster outside of the QB spot is one of the better ones in the league.

 

Take out the QB spot from the Eastern Division and honestly, who is impressive as us on paper? We have the strongest RB, a very strong set of healthy receivers, a couple all-stars on the DL and a very tough secondary.

 

Unfortunately, that's why the games are played. Our individual talent across the board (outside of QB) is strong but until we can get a general to piece it all together, I doubt it matters.

 

Gary Etch's article on the eastern division was generally pretty positive about Winnipeg

[DR. CFL]

Mack is not respected in CFL circles because of his NFL mentality and I'm smarter than everyone else. Yes, like it or not that is in fact the consensus of other CFL GMs and football ops people. You earn respect and credibility you don't get handed it or demand it.

[17to85]

I highly doubt that people don't respect Mack. If that were the case they wouldn't always be signing players that Winnipeg has had in camp. I would buy that they don't like him. You can see why that would be in some of the draft videos that are out there. I'm thinking specifically about when they were talking about making a trade and the other team was trying to haggle a bit and Mack just shut it down with a "no we won't do it then" He doesn't play games, he doesn't care to haggle and negotiate, either the deal is there or it isn't and maybe some people don't like it. I agree with Mike though, the roster is only lacking in one position, it's the big one, but once that gets taken care of then I'll take this roster against anyones I don't care who does or doesn't like Mack in the media or around the CFL. I've said it before and I'll say it again, Joe Mack operates in pretty much the exact same way that Jim Popp does, the big difference being that Popp has had Ham and then Calvillo at qb since the Als came back to Montreal, pretty easy to build a team when the most important position has had that kind of stability. Could you imagine what the bombers might have looked like over the years if Khari Jones (same age as Calvillo) had had that kind of longevity? 

[Atomic]

Mack is not respected in CFL circles because of his NFL mentality and I'm smarter than everyone else. Yes, like it or not that is in fact the consensus of other CFL GMs and football ops people. You earn respect and credibility you don't get handed it or demand it.

 

Maybe or maybe not, but don't act like you know anything about it, because you have no idea.

[DR. CFL]

Maybe or maybe not - I do have an idea.

[saskbluefan]

This is touchy terrain and I more or less try avoid anything Joe Mack related so I'll say this.  If the Bombers were quarterbacked by Kevin Glenn last year they would have made the playoffs.  If we were quarterbacked by say Darian Durant this year we would be around .500 at least.   If we are quarterbacked 80% of the time by Buck Pierce this year we will be not half bad. 

[DR. CFL]

Don't confuse opinion, subjectivity with objectivity and being informed. Thanks

[DR. CFL]

Well I guess that then speaks to who has or had the ability to find, or trade for an adequate QB. That would seem to be a significant component of the GM job description.

[rebusrankin]

I can understand player personal people disliking Mack but the media? Most of them couldn't find their ass with two hands.

[bluto]

I highly doubt that people don't respect Mack. If that were the case they wouldn't always be signing players that Winnipeg has had in camp. I would buy that they don't like him. You can see why that would be in some of the draft videos that are out there. I'm thinking specifically about when they were talking about making a trade and the other team was trying to haggle a bit and Mack just shut it down with a "no we won't do it then" He doesn't play games, he doesn't care to haggle and negotiate, either the deal is there or it isn't and maybe some people don't like it. I agree with Mike though, the roster is only lacking in one position, it's the big one, but once that gets taken care of then I'll take this roster against anyones I don't care who does or doesn't like Mack in the media or around the CFL. I've said it before and I'll say it again, Joe Mack operates in pretty much the exact same way that Jim Popp does, the big difference being that Popp has had Ham and then Calvillo at qb since the Als came back to Montreal, pretty easy to build a team when the most important position has had that kind of stability. Could you imagine what the bombers might have looked like over the years if Khari Jones (same age as Calvillo) had had that kind of longevity? 

 

Bolded part is pretty much true. but it isn't because of his "hard-line" negotiating. It's because he's seen as a tool who thinks his s#@t doesn't stink.

 

As to the other bit about you and Mike thinking the Bombers are strong everywhere except QB (i guess a long offseason makes painful memories easy to forget), i disagree vehemently... but won't bother getting into it since starting in a few days one or the other of us will have our case made for us.

[TrueBlue]

So why the hate on for Mack seriously?  Is he a giant ****** to people?  Is he unprofessional?  Does he support abortion?  

[17to85]

Bolded part is pretty much true. but it isn't because of his "hard-line" negotiating. It's because he's seen as a tool who thinks his s#@t doesn't stink.

 

 

 

no but it does all come down to the same reasoning. Mack doesn't make moves if he doesn't like it, some guys will go after players they want whatever the price, that rubs people the wrong way if they feel that a guy is being inflexible with them. 

 

We know what you think about the bombers roster, but like I said before, you're as big a homer as there is. GIve the bombers stable quarterbacking and the roster looks a hell of a lot better all over just because of that. 

[bluto]

no but it does all come down to the same reasoning. Mack doesn't make moves if he doesn't like it, some guys will go after players they want whatever the price, that rubs people the wrong way if they feel that a guy is being inflexible with them. 

 

We know what you think about the bombers roster, but like I said before, you're as big a homer as there is. GIve the bombers stable quarterbacking and the roster looks a hell of a lot better all over just because of that. 

 

>implying you aren't

 

[17to85]

>implying you aren't

 

Yeah but I'm not denying it at any point. 

[Valderan_CA]

Well I guess that then speaks to who has or had the ability to find, or trade for an adequate QB. That would seem to be a significant component of the GM job description.

 

Who has done a good job of finding an adequate QB in this league recently?

 

Wally is the only one who comes to mind (Lulay) (You could argue Hufnagel if Tate turns out well and stops hurting himself) - Class of the league GM's

 

Popp has been lucky in Calvillo continuing to play at a high level past 40... if Calvillo gets hurts they have literally no CFL experience whatsoever behind him (in a worse position than we are)

 

SSK - I believe Roy Shivers or Eric Tillman brought Darian Durant in (6-7 years ago) (Both of whom are no longer working in the CFL)

 

As far as trading goes

 

Burris was only available to a team with a solid reliable QB willing to be a backup in CGY - So basically only available to Hamilton (you could maybe argue that Calgary would have taken Kerry Joseph, but only if someone like Glenn wasn't available) - Smart move by Hufnagel to get Glenn when he dumped Burris.

 

Edmonton - Same spot as us or worse (Tillman ****** them - Hervey got Reilly, time will tell...)

 

So where are we then... maybe 1 or 2 GM's still in the league have proven themselves better at finding QB's than Mack.

Other than Tillman having a brain fart (nobody could have guessed that Ray would get traded for Jyles when Mack traded Jyles away... most people thought Mack made a great move with that trade) no trades were available during Mack's tenure where WPG had the parts to be able to trade for a proven QB.

[17to85]

I just don't think you get Ray as cheaply as Toronto did unless you're in the situation that Toronto was in. That would be being owned by the king of the CFL in Braley, being recognized as the #1 must fix problem in the CFL by everyone, and hosting the Grey Cup. It was a perfect storm for something to get cooked up to help a pathetic market. It took advantage of Tillmans well known idiocy. Here's something to keep in mind... there were rumours that if Kelly had stuck for a 2nd year he might have gone and got Ray... but the cost would have been starting with Doug Brown... now doesn't that sound like Toronto got a great deal on what the asking price was compared to another place?