Matthias Goossen or Pierre Lavertu?

[pigseye]

The problem with Mack's drafting wasn't so much who he picked, he just drafted the wrong positions.

[17to85]

I don't agree with that though, this team needed NIs at every position they were in no position to be picking and choosing positions to draft. 

 

Where I would say Mack made mistakes are obviously hiring coaches and that he seemed to prefer to have backups who would play special teams as opposed to special teamers who would be the backups if that makes sense. 

[Tracker]

 

 

 

 

 

When it comes to this team's draft record, Taman and Kelly also bear some responsibility, not just Mack. Horrible, horrible drafting (as far as o-line). Some guys like Henoc and even Watson were no brainers IMO ...

I love how people discredit every good selection made by Mack. There were tons of people that wanted guys like Sisco and Scott Mitchell picked over Watson and Henoc.

 

 

 

The problem is those were the only two good selections.  

 

well I don't believe that's correct but whatever. 

 

I suspect if you looked at macks draft record it would be on par with other gms in the league. I feel Mack's biggest flaw was inhuman patience. He was acting as if he had 10 years to build a competitive team. Too many projects, too many guys who had to return to school, etc.

The most damning fact of Mack's reign was Chris Kowalczuk staying here as long as he did. Here's a guy who's 29 years old who hasn't progressed beyond being the 7th(?) O lineman in his time here and yet he's still on the team. Eventually you have to cut these guys loose and get some new blood in there.

 

 

I just don't think the NI or drafting was something that is a valid criticism. He liked his athletes that's for sure, the problem was they never developed which to me is a coaching problem and that was Macks biggest flaw. Didn't hire the coaches who could develop his projects for him. 

 

Mack had multiple failings: poor quarterbacks, poor O-line, poor drafting, poor coach selections, and the team getting worse year by year. And that's only the start.

[iso_55]

The wheels on the bus go round & round. Round & round. Round & round. The  wheels on the bus go round & round all bloody day long.

[Mr Dee]

Mack had multiple failings: poor quarterbacks, poor O-line, poor drafting, poor coach selections, and the team getting worse year by year. And that's only the start.

 

 

 

It's interesting that everything rotten here gets traced to the man who's face is in the public eye but nobody questions what is behind the face.

As in the logic of the BOD. IMO, the major reason for being where we are.

 

Bauer's tight grip on finances even after the Bomber's bottom line was better, was plain stupid and far too rigid.

Taman was handcuffed. He did what he could. And that was unsustainable. I don't blame him at all, his budget was probably crap.

And if Taman weakened the structure, Kelly bull-dozed what was left.

 

Then Mack was hired because he had connections down south and his philosophy of finding good players and re-signing them or signing new bees appealed to the bottom-line BOD. 

All on a shoe-string scouting budget. But of course, that is unsustainable, especially when the initial pieces started to fail and the strategy was exposed.

 

Poor QBs - you say… well initially B Pierce and S Jyles did seem intriguing, but no scouting down south would reveal itself later.

 

Poor O-Line? Yes, this is a product going back many years to what Taman had to do to get players…trade picks.

Then Kelly.

For at least 2 years, we were booted.

Now, you may say, well Mack could have drafted O-Line guys, and you'd be correct. However, there were a lot of holes to fill.

 

Poor drafting? On par with some, questionable strategy overall.

 

Poor coach selections? I can't fault trying LaPolice, just firing him when he did. Should have known about Burke. There had to have been doubts.

 

GM Mack never would have lasted even if he had Miller and the revised budget to back him, so all's good that way.

 

This new thinking and expanded spending by the BOD is a lifesaver for this franchise and the only way we could have avoided disaster.

It's just too bad it took so long.

[Tracker]

 

Mack had multiple failings: poor quarterbacks, poor O-line, poor drafting, poor coach selections, and the team getting worse year by year. And that's only the start.

 

 

 

It's interesting that everything rotten here gets traced to the man who's face isin  the public but nobody questions what is behind the face.

As in the logic of the BOD. IMO, the major reason for being where we are.

 

Bauer's tight grip on finances even after the Bomber's bottom line was better, was plain stupid and far too rigid.

Taman was handcuffed. He did what he could. And that was unsustainable. I don't blame him at all, his budget was probably crap.

And if Taman weakened the structure, Kelly bull-dozed what was left.

 

Then Mack was hired because he had connections down south and his philosophy of finding good players and re-signing them or signing new bees appealed to the bottom-line BOD. 

All on a shoe-string scouting budget. But of course, that is unsustainable, especially when the initial pieces started to fail and the strategy was exposed.

 

Poor QBs - you say… well initially B Pierce and S Jyles did seem intriguing, but no scouting down south would reveal itself later.

 

Poor O-Line? Yes, this is a product going back many years to what Taman had to do to get players…trade picks.

Then Kelly.

For at least 2 years, we were booted.

Now, you may say, well Mack could have drafted O-Line guys, and you'd be correct. However, there were a lot of holes to fill.

 

Poor drafting? On par with some, questionable strategy overall.

 

Poor coach selections? I can't fault trying LaPolice, just firing him when he did. Should have known about Burke. There had to have been doubts.

 

GM Mack never would have lasted even if he had Miller and the revised budget to back him, so all's good that way.

 

This new thinking and expanded spending by the BOD is a lifesaver for this franchise and the only way we could have avoided disaster.

It's just too bad it took so long.

 

I do not disagree with your statement that the current mess is the cumulative result of several GM's and their tenures, but I was assessing only Mack's reign. When I referred to "poor drafting" on Mack's part, I included the lack of filling the holes in the roster. He may have been average in his success about finding players who were able to start but the lacks in the team were largely unaddressed.

[17to85]

 but the lacks in the team were largely unaddressed.

 

but the team was lacking everywhere.... 

 

You know what the truly worthwhile parts of the team were when Mack took over? Doug Brown and Brendan Labatte. One guy retired and one guy wanted to go home. There were holes everywhere. 

[iso_55]

The endless Joe Mack debate:

 

[Mr Dee]

[iso_55]

[17to85]

Iso just doesn't like it when anything other than "Mack was the devil" is posted. Fair and balanced opinions? get em out of here the guy was worse than Hitler. 

[Shanks]

 

 

 

 

 

 

When it comes to this team's draft record, Taman and Kelly also bear some responsibility, not just Mack. Horrible, horrible drafting (as far as o-line). Some guys like Henoc and even Watson were no brainers IMO ...

I love how people discredit every good selection made by Mack. There were tons of people that wanted guys like Sisco and Scott Mitchell picked over Watson and Henoc.

 

 

 

The problem is those were the only two good selections.  

 

well I don't believe that's correct but whatever. 

 

I suspect if you looked at macks draft record it would be on par with other gms in the league. I feel Mack's biggest flaw was inhuman patience. He was acting as if he had 10 years to build a competitive team. Too many projects, too many guys who had to return to school, etc.

The most damning fact of Mack's reign was Chris Kowalczuk staying here as long as he did. Here's a guy who's 29 years old who hasn't progressed beyond being the 7th(?) O lineman in his time here and yet he's still on the team. Eventually you have to cut these guys loose and get some new blood in there.

 

 

I just don't think the NI or drafting was something that is a valid criticism. He liked his athletes that's for sure, the problem was they never developed which to me is a coaching problem and that was Macks biggest flaw. Didn't hire the coaches who could develop his projects for him. 

 

Mack had multiple failings: poor quarterbacks, poor O-line, poor drafting, poor coach selections, and the team getting worse year by year. And that's only the start.

 

Plus his reported snubbing of the other CFL GMs in the league. ie: a second round pick for Glenn. Might have made a difference for us last year. OTH it probably may have extended his stay in Wpg.

[blueandgoldguy]

Then explain our horrible situation with our Canadian depth? Who was responsible for that, the equipment manager?

iso don't you know that it would have taken Mack at least 7-10 years to adequately address the mess left by Kelly and Taman?

[iso_55]

Iso just doesn't like it when anything other than "Mack was the devil" is posted. Fair and balanced opinions? get em out of here the guy was worse than Hitler. 

Well,I  was going to put the Joe Mack argument to rest for me but I guess not. 17to85 everytime he reads a Joe Mack comment he doesn't like here on MBB. LEAVE JOE MACK ALONE!!!!!!

[iso_55]

Even Bomber fans in Mongolia react when they heard Joe Mack was never coming back:

[iso_55]

Joe Mack's time as Bomber General Manager:

[iso_55]

Edit....

[iso_55]

Oh, one more.... What the hell, why not???

Joe Mack on the first day of free agency every year when he was Bombers General Manager:

 

[IC Khari]

To be fair the Bombers did draft a couple of solid o-lineman in the years from 2004 - 2013, Labatte and Picard ... very good players that could anchor a line for years to come. Problem is they were starting for the Riders and not the team that drafted them last year If there's one thing that hurt Mack and the Bombers more than anything else in his time here (his 2nd year here I think), it was the FA defection of Brendan L. Never adequately replaced. One would have thought with all the early selections in 2011, 2012 and 2013 that he could have found someone on the o-line that would have been almost as good. If not, trading a first rounder for an established NI o-lineman is not out of the question and it's not like it hasn't been done before. Instead Mack drafted everything but top quality o-lineman (like Etienne with the 4th pick) and just "hoped" one of the lower picks would work out. It works when your line is solid to begin with I guess, but not when you need to replenish quickly. Love Muamba but when you think about it, would it not have been better to trade that pick for a a quality o-lineman (for the ratio) and use an import at MLB? Maybe that time no one wanted to trade with Mack perhaps, hard to say, all I know is I don't believe everything that could have been done during that time to address the issue was done. Dead horse beating I guess ...

[iso_55]

Mack delivered 2 long term starters via the draft, Corey Watson & Henoc Muamba. And a third via free agency in Rory Kohlert. Other guys were in & out of the lineup as starters then backups again... That's it, in 3 1/2 seasons, three long term starters...

 

 

*** Change that to include Chris Greaves who I overlooked. *** Four players became long term starters in 3 1/2 seasons... 

[Atomic]

.

[Jacquie]

Mack delivered 2 long term starters via the draft, Corey Watson & Henoc Muamba. And a third via free agency in Rory Kohlert. Other guys were in & out of the lineup as starters then backups again... That's it, in 3 1/2 seasons, three long term starters...

 

What about Chris Greaves. It's a little early to be pronouncing judgment on the 2012 and 2013 draft imo.

[iso_55]

I'll include Greaves as you said, Jacquie...  So 4 players. Nope,I wouldn't consider 2012 & 13 as too soon when you consider in last year's draft Calgary took Brett Jones & he was CFL ROTY.

[SPuDS]

I'll include Greaves as you said, Jacquie... So 4 players. Nope,I wouldn't consider 2012 & 13 as too soon when you consider in last year's draft Calgary took Brett Jones & he was CFL ROTY.

Exception, not the norm tho ISO.. Try to not let your hate cloud yer judgement so badly.. Mulamba and bikuilidi both could be cfl bound in a year or two and have long careers.. Mack, as i always said,was gambling in guys struggling at camp and coming to cfl quickly but if not, as viable long term projects..

Unfortunately we did need cfl ready mixed a bit more ie edem

[James]

Mack just didn't put enough emphasis on the O-line is his drafting... other than that he was pretty solid in that regard... Lie 17 said he was just horrible at picking coaches, also too stubborn... not using FA AT ALL cost this team a bit.