Buck Pierce......should Goltz Start?

[iso_55]

Guys, Glenn's not the answer because there is a good chance Tate will miss a second game coming up so the  Stamps won't trade him  to the Bombers. He's  there the rest of thr season. The Bombers picked Buck to be their guy. Big mistake.... Heads will roll if things don't change.

[johnzo]

His first half was pretty darn bad still.  If we are setting that as the acceptable level that is trouble. 

 

Well, he did play well enough to have us in the lead at halftime, and he didn't turn the ball over.

 

 

Guys, Glenn's not the answer because there is a good chance Tate will miss a second game coming up so the  Stamps won't trade him  to the Bombers.

 

Did someone mention Glenn in this thread?

[Captain Blue]

Well, he did play well enough to have us in the lead at halftime.

 

 

 

Did someone mention Glenn in this thread?

 

How much of that was on him?  And why does Pierce get evaluated by team scores when our defense contributed a lot more than he did?

[17to85]

Well, he did play well enough to have us in the lead at halftime, and he didn't turn the ball over.

thanks to a 70+ yard td run from Simpson... 

 

The problem here is that PIerce is not a good fit for the offense Crowton has put together. He's no Calvillo and never will be. He can not read and throw quickly. At his best Pierce was a guy who extended things with his legs or just tucked and ran. But he can't play like that anymore and the idea to protect him and make him a pocket passer while a noble idea is just a mistake at this point. All it does is turn Pierce into a sitting duck because he can't play that game anymore. The catch is that he can't play his game anymore either so they just need to get rid of the guy and get someone who can play some type of game.

[iso_55]

Yep johnzo...Glenn mentioned on page 2 of this discussion.

[17to85]

Yep... Page 2 of this discussion.

but this topic is an old one right? so page 2 took place a long time ago.

[DR. CFL]

Pierce didn't design the offence. Either design a system to meet the skill set of your players or the NFL mentality is find players to fit the system. Heads up Mack, Burke and Crowton..... Your offensive system isn't utilizing your athletic abilities. Get your resumes ready boys. You will be hitting the bricks

[iso_55]

17, just reminding people that after last  night in Montreal  it's  pretty clear he'll be staying put in Calgary.

[Captain Blue]

Pierce didn't design the offence. Either design a system to meet the skill set of your players or the NFL mentality is find players to fit the system. Heads up Mack, Burke and Crowton..... Your offensive system isn't utilizing your athletic abilities. Get your resumes ready boys. You will be hitting the bricks

 

Just like Barresi's system didn't fit Buck Pierce.

Or LaPolice's either.

And now Crowton's.

 

All these offensive guys and none tried to craft an offense for Pierce.

 

Or Pierce just isn't very good.

[iso_55]

Pierce didn't design the offence. Either design a system to meet the skill set of your players or the NFL mentality is find players to fit the system. Heads up Mack, Burke and Crowton..... Your offensive system isn't utilizing your athletic abilities. Get your resumes ready boys. You will be hitting the bricks

I think Burke will stay as he has a new contract & Bombers are still paying off LaPo. But Mack will go & Burke will be told to find a new OC.

[johnzo]

How much of that was on him?  And why does Pierce get evaluated by team scores when our defense contributed a lot more than he did?

 

I don't know.  It's a team game.  He did pump fake Etienne wide open.

 

People say that if we had even an adequate QB we could win with this team.  I agree with that and I think we had an adequate QB for the first half, and if Pierce had performed in the second half like he had in the first we would have won the game.  So what happened in the second half?  I'm not convinced it's as simple as "Pierce sucks."

 

I do know that we completely stopped running the ball in the third quarter after having some success with it in first half.

 

The problem here is that PIerce is not a good fit for the offense Crowton has put together. He's no Calvillo and never will be. He can not read and throw quickly. At his best Pierce was a guy who extended things with his legs or just tucked and ran. But he can't play like that anymore and the idea to protect him and make him a pocket passer while a noble idea is just a mistake at this point.

 

yeah, when I look back at all of Pierce's best moments, they happen when he's wandering around the field and improvising.  I think that you're onto something here -- which means that the fault lies with the coaches for trying to run something that doesn't suit their any of their quarterbacks. 

 

Remember how awkward McPherson looked in Calvillo's quick-release max-protect system? I wonder if Goltz will have the same trouble when he starts playing.

[17to85]

Pierce didn't design the offence. Either design a system to meet the skill set of your players or the NFL mentality is find players to fit the system. Heads up Mack, Burke and Crowton..... Your offensive system isn't utilizing your athletic abilities. Get your resumes ready boys. You will be hitting the bricks

problem is there's no offense that fits pierce anymore. The mistake was keeping him in the first place and there are lots of us been talking about that since it happened as a huge mistake. 

[Captain Blue]

Watching the late game now...

 

Travis Lulay is a really good QB but he also relies heavily on his athleticism to make plays and bail him out of trouble.

Mike Reilly is a very inexperienced QB who's not anything special right now.  He's a bottom tier starter right now but his athleticism is helping him out on this learning curve.  He's not breaking down a defense like Peyton Manning or doing anything out of the ordinary, he's just making throws he should and scrambling when in trouble.

 

I think it's reasonable to consider that Goltz could at least replicate what Reilly is providing Edmonton right now and that is good enough for us at the moment.

[17to85]

 

yeah, when I look back at all of Pierce's best moments, they happen when he's wandering around the field and improvising.  I think that you're onto something here -- which means that the fault lies with the coaches for trying to run something that doesn't suit their any of their quarterbacks. 

 

Remember how awkward McPherson looked in Calvillo's quick-release max-protect system? I wonder if Goltz will have the same trouble when he starts playing.

I think Goltz will be OK just because he's althetic enough that he can improvise a bit if the pressure gets there. 

[Captain Blue]

I don't know.  It's a team game.  He did pump fake Etienne wide open.

 

People say that if we had even an adequate QB we could win with this team.  I agree with that and I think we had an adequate QB for the first half, and if Pierce had performed in the second half like he had in the first we would have won the game.  So what happened in the second half?  I'm not convinced it's as simple as "Pierce sucks."

 

Why isn't it that simple?  If he's a bad quarterback can't it just be that he had one decent drive in the first half then was terrible? 

 

I do know that we completely stopped running the ball in the third quarter after having some success with it in first half.

 

Stopping Simpson was all the TiCats had to do.  I would imagine the Bombers realized that in order to free up the run a little more they'd have to pass.  

[DR. CFL]

Playing Goltz might be the right thing to do but that would mean Mack, Burke and Crowton would have to swallow the mistake of keeping Buck.

[17to85]

Playing Goltz might be the right thing to do but that would mean Mack, Burke and Crowton would have to swallow the mistake of keeping Buck.

well if they stick with Pierce they'll be unemployed come year end, I think they'd rather try and spin it as "we knew Goltz was the guy all along" then get fired. 

[DR. CFL]

How do you say we knew Goltz was the guy when you have cut all your other experienced QBs being limited but kept Buck and declared him as the guy. If you can spin that spin me some cotton candy

[Brandon]

After watching the Edmonton game...  Reilly isn't look much better with his 80 yards passing.   That being said it would be prime time for us to make the trade with them right now Pierce for Nichols !   I know he's out for the year but the guy has shown at least some stuff in his time. 

[Captain Blue]

After watching the Edmonton game...  Reilly isn't look much better with his 80 yards passing.   That being said it would be prime time for us to make the trade with them right now Pierce for Nichols !   I know he's out for the year but the guy has shown at least some stuff in his time. 

Reilly has less to work with than Pierce does, in my opinion.  The two are duking it out for worst starters in the league, but I'll give the edge to Reilly because at least he can run.  Also their weather tonight was awful.

[JohnnyOnTheSpot]

A few points:

 

I'm still waiting for the 4th QB they promised to bring in a month ago.

 

Goltz is not ready.

 

With this D all we need is a game manager at QB. Unfortunately that means someone with experience and I can't think of one of those.

[kelownabomberfan]

A few points:

 

I'm still waiting for the 4th QB they promised to bring in a month ago.

 

Goltz is not ready.

 

With this D all we need is a game manager at QB. Unfortunately that means someone with experience and I can't think of one of those.

Quinton Porter

[iso_55]

Reilly has less to work with than Pierce does, in my opinion.  The two are duking it out for worst starters in the league, but I'll give the edge to Reilly because at least he can run.  Also their weather tonight was awful.

Reilly's played in 2 consecutive rain games.... He was still 13 of 21. Thing is, he'll get better but Buck won't. Mack & Burke put  the Bombers into the position we're in now.

[SPuDS]

I don't know. It's a team game. He did pump fake Etienne wide open.

People say that if we had even an adequate QB we could win with this team. I agree with that and I think we had an adequate QB for the first half, and if Pierce had performed in the second half like he had in the first we would have won the game. So what happened in the second half? I'm not convinced it's as simple as "Pierce sucks."

I do know that we completely stopped running the ball in the third quarter after having some success with it in first half.

yeah, when I look back at all of Pierce's best moments, they happen when he's wandering around the field and improvising. I think that you're onto something here -- which means that the fault lies with the coaches for trying to run something that doesn't suit their any of their quarterbacks.

Remember how awkward McPherson looked in Calvillo's quick-release max-protect system? I wonder if Goltz will have the same trouble when he starts playing.

agree.. buck plays like this and we can win with mistake free football.. so far, we have shot ourselves in the foot a frighteningly large percentage.. missed fgs, botched snaps, poor return reads, johnson not trying to break one of those misses? kicks out of bounds and horribly timed penalties..

look, i get the buck hate, i really do.. he is the definition of average to below average at this point.. what frightens me is that burke and co dont believe our backups can outperform him.. so we stick with buck with the hopes that the disipline and mental lack of focus is resolved.. at least no turnovers tonight minus the renauld weirdness..

[17to85]

agree.. buck plays like this and we can win with mistake free football.. so far, we have shot ourselves in the foot a frighteningly large percentage.. missed fgs, botched snaps, poor return reads, johnson not trying to break one of those misses? kicks out of bounds and horribly timed penalties..

look, i get the buck hate, i really do.. he is the definition of average to below average at this point.. what frightens me is that burke and co dont believe our backups can outperform him.. so we stick with buck with the hopes that the disipline and mental lack of focus is resolved.. at least no turnovers tonight minus the renauld weirdness..

you can go ahead and say it, Pierce is done as an effective qb in the CFL. The longer we stick with him the bigger the hole.