The Unknown Poster Posted March 30, 2014 Report Posted March 30, 2014 I've always defended him. Always been a fan. Always felt he'd rise to the occasion on a better team. Always felt as the jets improved he'd be the guy. I've kept the faith. Someone tell me why I shouldn't lose faith in him...
Jacquie Posted March 30, 2014 Report Posted March 30, 2014 Everyone has a bad game once in a while and the team wasn't exactly playing inspired hockey to start the game. I wouldn't blame him on the second goal - having a stick thrown in your face isn't exactly helpful when your trying to stop the puck.
Brandon Posted March 30, 2014 Report Posted March 30, 2014 The guy is up and down, last night though the team definitely did not put up much of a fight. I wouldn't pin last nights loss as his fault by any means.
road griller Posted March 30, 2014 Report Posted March 30, 2014 Switch goalies in the first and Pav has a shutout period, Quick probably not. Not when the AHL and undersized NHL D. is getting pushed back right on top of you. Smurfs are cute and funny but make poor NHL D-men.
Brandon Posted March 30, 2014 Report Posted March 30, 2014 Switch goalies in the first and Pav has a shutout period, Quick probably not. Not when the AHL and undersized NHL D. is getting pushed back right on top of you. Smurfs are cute and funny but make poor NHL D-men. Pretty dumb comment considering several of the miscues were caused by bigger guys like Byfuglien and Jacob Trouba....
The Unknown Poster Posted March 30, 2014 Author Report Posted March 30, 2014 Sometimes teams play bad and hang their goalie out to dry. And you need the goalie to steal one. Pavs doesn't steal anything. If we trade with the islanders it might be mlre likely involving Pavs. I would t be surprised to see us make a play for Reimer. My only question in that would be does Reimer just need a change of scenery or is he maybe not the answer? Would the jets dump inconsistent Pavs and pin hopes on inconsistent Reimer? I never thought we'd use a compliance buy out but you never know....
road griller Posted March 30, 2014 Report Posted March 30, 2014 Players will make mistakes, 33 and 8 are NHL players one will always make mistakes but his play is worth it. The other is a rookie playing very good hockey over a real long season. A little different from AHLers and someone who carries a big stick but still plays softly.....
Brandon Posted March 30, 2014 Report Posted March 30, 2014 Players will make mistakes, 33 and 8 are NHL players one will always make mistakes but his play is worth it. The other is a rookie playing very good hockey over a real long season. A little different from AHLers and someone who carries a big stick but still plays softly..... Yes but last night it was their mistakes that left Pavs out to dry. You say the reason we lose or that we suck is because of AHL level defensemen.... we didn't lose because of Ellerby , Pardy.... we lost because everyone has checked out including the "big guys".
17to85 Posted March 30, 2014 Report Posted March 30, 2014 The Kings are one of those teams that may not score a lot of goals, but if you give them chances they will absolutely bury you because they have some real snipers on the team and they play a game that simply doesn't make mistakes and allow teams to come back.
road griller Posted March 30, 2014 Report Posted March 30, 2014 The Kings are the real deal. A good measuring stick to see where we really are. Pardy and Ellerby dump the puck out in desperation, right back to them. That is what happens when you are so out classed, so it is rush after rush. Buff played forward iirc. Even if the Jets were to make the playoffs the real NHL teams would eat them in 4. Every time Toby was on I would have my 230 pound winger against him and play dump and destroy all night long. By game 3 it would be a bloodbath. The big men are getting geared up for playoff hockey and it showed last night.
Jacquie Posted March 31, 2014 Report Posted March 31, 2014 Sometimes teams play bad and hang their goalie out to dry. And you need the goalie to steal one. Pavs doesn't steal anything. I disagree. There have been a lot of games where Pavs has been the only reason the Jets won or at the very least were still in it.
AKAChip Posted March 31, 2014 Report Posted March 31, 2014 Pavelec is really bad. The Jets are not the worst defensive team in the league yet Pavelec has consistently had the worst starting goaltender numbers (save for Dubnyk when he was around) in the league and it's not really close. Montoya isn't even a good goalie and his save percentage is 18% higher and his goals against average is better by 0.72 (!). Let's keep in mind, they play on the same team. blueandgoldguy 1
AKAChip Posted March 31, 2014 Report Posted March 31, 2014 And before we start talking about backup goalies playing easier competition, the collection of teams Montoya has played are: Chicago x3 Colorado x3 St Louis x2 Pittsburgh San Jose Montreal Tampa Bay He ain't getting sheltered minutes.
Brandon Posted March 31, 2014 Report Posted March 31, 2014 Every time Toby was on I would have my 230 pound winger against him and play dump and destroy all night long. By game 3 it would be a bloodbath. The big men are getting geared up for playoff hockey and it showed last night. Big men as in big in talent? Because the Jets have a lot of big tall players.
road griller Posted March 31, 2014 Report Posted March 31, 2014 Ok you win. The Jets blue line minus Bogo is a force out there. The Jets are a big heavy team that dictates the play each and every night. It's just the way it is.
AKAChip Posted March 31, 2014 Report Posted March 31, 2014 Enstrom is actually a really, really good defenceman. I know people like to hate on people they perceive as "overpayed" but he is a legit first pairing defender regardless of his size. blitzmore and SPuDS 2
blueandgoldguy Posted March 31, 2014 Report Posted March 31, 2014 It 's pretty much proven that Pavs is one of the worst starting goalies in the NHL, if not the worst. This has been discussed ad nauseum on the Jets forum on the Hfboards. Pretty sure I have seen the Unknown Poster post there several times. Garret, one of the more frequent posters on the board, happens to be excellent with advanced stat analysis and has shown time and time again that Pavs is a below average goaltender. While Pavs is a great athlete who can make the occasional great save he is 1) poor at controlling rebounds which lead to subsequent high quality scoring chances 2) very poor stick handling which put additional pressure on the defense and forwards in their own zone to try and clear the puck 3) poor positionally in the net leading to the acrobatic saves fooling people into believing he is a good goaltender and also leading to goals which should have been saved if he was covering the angle properly 4) weak glovehand 5) frequently plays too deep in his net The guy is just fundamentally a poor goaltender relying on athleticism to look better than he is. The one season in Atlanta with the .914 save percentage was a fluke as seen by his three years in Winnipeg in which it appears he has become progressively worse. The bad defense argument in defense of Pavs doesn't wash as teams with worse defense like the Buffalo Sabres and the Toronto Maple Laffs have goalies with significantly higher save percentages (Miller, Reimer and Bernier). If the Jets had even average goaltending last year (which would be exceptional for pavs) they would have made the playoffs.. Chevy needs to buyout Pavs and/or bring in competition next year and I'm talking about legit competition, not Montoya or one of the goalies currently with the Ice Caps. Someone like Halak or Reimer. There are a few others but I can't think of them right now - will have to take a look at the free agent list. Won't be able to trade Pavs due to the horrible contract unless we trade him for an equally bad contract. Cam Ward's $6+ million contract with 2 years remaining is an example. blitzmore and Nasty Nate 2
road griller Posted March 31, 2014 Report Posted March 31, 2014 Pav does need to and will get better but he is good. He is still young, to think the Jets are a playoff team is stretch, a leap actually. They do not have the depth and even their starting healthy line up is a 4 and out team even if they would stay healthy for 82 and squeak in. The team is not good enough yet, undersized and under skilled. They have cut a lot of dead weight and have more to go, half way there imo. Couple more seasons. As far as what a person makes I really could not care less, I do not sign the checks. The game has changed for the Jets this year, they need to be tougher on the back end. They would get killed in playoff hockey.
Nasty Nate Posted March 31, 2014 Report Posted March 31, 2014 The Kings are the real deal. A good measuring stick to see where we really are. Pardy and Ellerby dump the puck out in desperation, right back to them. That is what happens when you are so out classed, so it is rush after rush. Buff played forward iirc. Even if the Jets were to make the playoffs the real NHL teams would eat them in 4. Every time Toby was on I would have my 230 pound winger against him and play dump and destroy all night long. By game 3 it would be a bloodbath. The big men are getting geared up for playoff hockey and it showed last night. 100% accurate. Enstrom is a tremendous talent but in a non-contact league. His skills are hi-level. And he's a near all-star (3rd team all-star) when he's not involved in physical play. However, when an opponent needs a push against the Jets they'll invariably go after Toby and Toby will be unable to withstand any degree of force or power against him.
Nasty Nate Posted March 31, 2014 Report Posted March 31, 2014 It 's pretty much proven that Pavs is one of the worst starting goalies in the NHL, if not the worst. This has been discussed ad nauseum on the Jets forum on the Hfboards. Pretty sure I have seen the Unknown Poster post there several times. Garret, one of the more frequent posters on the board, happens to be excellent with advanced stat analysis and has shown time and time again that Pavs is a below average goaltender. While Pavs is a great athlete who can make the occasional great save he is 1) poor at controlling rebounds which lead to subsequent high quality scoring chances 2) very poor stick handling which put additional pressure on the defense and forwards in their own zone to try and clear the puck 3) poor positionally in the net leading to the acrobatic saves fooling people into believing he is a good goaltender and also leading to goals which should have been saved if he was covering the angle properly 4) weak glovehand 5) frequently plays too deep in his net The guy is just fundamentally a poor goaltender relying on athleticism to look better than he is. The one season in Atlanta with the .914 save percentage was a fluke as seen by his three years in Winnipeg in which it appears he has become progressively worse. The bad defense argument in defense of Pavs doesn't wash as teams with worse defense like the Buffalo Sabres and the Toronto Maple Laffs have goalies with significantly higher save percentages (Miller, Reimer and Bernier). If the Jets had even average goaltending last year (which would be exceptional for pavs) they would have made the playoffs.. Chevy needs to buyout Pavs and/or bring in competition next year and I'm talking about legit competition, not Montoya or one of the goalies currently with the Ice Caps. Someone like Halak or Reimer. There are a few others but I can't think of them right now - will have to take a look at the free agent list. Won't be able to trade Pavs due to the horrible contract unless we trade him for an equally bad contract. Cam Ward's $6+ million contract with 2 years remaining is an example. There are very few explanations about the Jets keeping Pavelec on. Chipman and Thompson must have hard-ons for the guy. Or they're that thrifty they want to get their money's worth out of a bottom-level goaler even if it means NO PLAYOFFS FOR YOU!
The Unknown Poster Posted March 31, 2014 Author Report Posted March 31, 2014 I want Pavs to be great. I really like him. But Im at the point where he must be better or he must be replaced. Period. Year after year, his stats are simply not good enough. When you're 40th in a 30 team league, thats bad.
TrueBlue Posted March 31, 2014 Report Posted March 31, 2014 So if the Pavelec era is over, where are our assets best spent/used for a solution to this? Cam Ward or James Reimer are expendable, but what good does that do?
Brandon Posted March 31, 2014 Report Posted March 31, 2014 If they can trade for Reimer then that's a huge steal for us. I assume Reimer isn't making that much.
DR. CFL Posted March 31, 2014 Report Posted March 31, 2014 When all else fails blame the Head Coach and the goalie. When will people be objective and realize this team is and has been lacking in the necessary depth and talent to compete at the level needed over a demanding schedule. road griller 1
Atomic Posted March 31, 2014 Report Posted March 31, 2014 When all else fails blame the Head Coach and the goalie. When will people be objective and realize this team is and has been lacking in the necessary depth and talent to compete at the level needed over a demanding schedule. I completely agree with you, but still feel that Pavelec may be lacking. I would be willing to keep him around for another year though. This team was just starting to come around before Scheifele got injured (and I believe that was a HUGE blow, and the inability to replace him speaks to the lack of depth the organization still has). Pavelec deserves a chance with a better team in front of him, but I would still be looking to upgrade if the opportunity presented itself. If they can trade for Reimer then that's a huge steal for us. I assume Reimer isn't making that much. He is only making 1.8 million, but he is also an RFA after this season. And he is sporting a .908 Save Pct. along with a 3.39 GAA this year... I wouldn't count on him being any better than Pavs.
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