A Look at the New Scouting System

[ediger]

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/sports/football/bombers/bombers-bank-on-bird-dogging-253861651.html

 

Sounds like we're finally getting up to speed. Pretty incredible to hear that they are able to pay all of these new scouts with the money that Mack/Moll would have been making. We were getting fleeced even worse than we thought under that regime.

[gbill2004]

Mack must have been making $300k or more. I heard it was around $250k and I know Walters shaved $100k off the GM salary, but that's a lot of additional resources for what 2 men were previously making. Wonder what Ken Moll was making?

[Floyd]

Just funny how napkin Taman was skewered and then both Kelly and Mack did pretty much the same thing - ran a one man scouting show...

 

Good to see the bombers finally emerging from the stone age

[17to85]

With Mack and Moll you were basically paying for their connections. I seem to recall Moll talking about the process and I was left with the impression that they basically talk to people they know to get leads on players then Mack and Moll would look into the tapes of these players and work out the ones that impressed them the most. So techincally it's 2 guys on staff but they used a lot more eyes indirectly as well. Now I am going to go out on a limb and say that Walters has a hell of a lot less connections so he needs more eyes of his own. Nothing wrong with that and I sure as hell hope it works out, but different systems work for different folks. We never had a problem scouting american players using Macks system so let's not go trying to claim he was short changing us in that aspect. 

[Mr Dee]

I'm always for making better usage of whatever resources we have at hand.

For instance, more eyes on prospects, i.e. for the specific needs of the Bombers, and...

that computerized scouting system..well again I see the benefits of a standardized grading of players seeing as it was developed for the CFL, and why not take advantage of it…seeing as we're paying for it anyways.

 

I have no issues with the players brought to us by the previous regime…it just seemed to be too specific to certain types of players and didn't address our needs in some areas (QB especially) and I was never a fan of missing combines where other CFL teams seemed to find some good players.

 

It's looks like it's going to be a fresh outlook on getting new talent, the first of which we will see?/ hear about starting next weekend with the rookie mini camp starting then.

 

 

 

[17to85]

that computerized scouting system..well again I see the benefits of a standardized grading of players seeing as it was developed for the CFL, and why not take advantage of it…

 

See I have a hard time getting so jonesed up of a switch in what system a GM uses to grade players. Here's a relevant example from my job, I use a specific program to do my work in, the guy I am reporting to now though has forced me to switch to a new system because in his mind it's far superior and makes more sense for everyone. It's not, it makes more sense to him, to me it's just a giant pain in the ass when I can get a better picture in the program I was using before. The point? Different people see things differently, doesn't make one way better or worse than the other just that for different people different approaches work. Of all the things wrong with the Bombers the last couple years finding prospects from the states was absolutely not one of the problems. 

[gbill2004]

that computerized scouting system..well again I see the benefits of a standardized grading of players seeing as it was developed for the CFL, and why not take advantage of it…

See I have a hard time getting so jonesed up of a switch in what system a GM uses to grade players. Here's a relevant example from my job, I use a specific program to do my work in, the guy I am reporting to now though has forced me to switch to a new system because in his mind it's far superior and makes more sense for everyone. It's not, it makes more sense to him, to me it's just a giant pain in the ass when I can get a better picture in the program I was using before. The point? Different people see things differently, doesn't make one way better or worse than the other just that for different people different approaches work. Of all the things wrong with the Bombers the last couple years finding prospects from the states was absolutely not one of the problems.

Finding QBs was a problem under the Mack regime. That's where the Bombers are hoping McManus pays off.

[Mr Dee]

 

that computerized scouting system..well again I see the benefits of a standardized grading of players seeing as it was developed for the CFL, and why not take advantage of it…

 

See I have a hard time getting so jonesed up of a switch in what system a GM uses to grade players. Here's a relevant example from my job, I use a specific program to do my work in, the guy I am reporting to now though has forced me to switch to a new system because in his mind it's far superior and makes more sense for everyone. It's not, it makes more sense to him, to me it's just a giant pain in the ass when I can get a better picture in the program I was using before. The point? Different people see things differently, doesn't make one way better or worse than the other just that for different people different approaches work. Of all the things wrong with the Bombers the last couple years finding prospects from the states was absolutely not one of the problems. 

 

 

Nobody has to get excited about using a new system. Especially, as in your case, if the fit isn't right.

I get that.

 

My point was that since we already have access to the system, we might as well make use of it. 

It's a tool...anything to get a better read on questions about a new player.

 

Finding prospects from the states wasn't really the problem I agree, although I still question why we couldn't come up with a better O-Line prospect than Boatman or Taormina at the drop of a hat.

Never mind QB.

[Jacquie]

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/sports/football/bombers/bombers-bank-on-bird-dogging-253861651.html

Sounds like we're finally getting up to speed. Pretty incredible to hear that they are able to pay all of these new scouts with the money that Mack/Moll would have been making. We were getting fleeced even worse than we thought under that regime.

More like Miller has autonomy to make budget decisions while Buchko had to get BoD approval. It's obvious he's increased the football ops budget significantly to be able to have all the new scouts, 2 assistant GMs and a 11 man coaching staff.

[Adrenaline_x]

This is what i like to read in newspaper articles.. Reporting.. Not a columnist piece with all the writers opinions being stated as fact.. The facts the reporter is reporting are actually facts.

 

go figured.

[17to85]

Finding prospects from the states wasn't really the problem I agree, although I still question why we couldn't come up with a better O-Line prospect than Boatman or Taormina at the drop of a hat.

Never mind QB.

 

QBs need the right system to succeed, I think that is more a case of not giving young qbs the support system they need than guys not having the talent to make it work. As for the o-line, I still maintain the coaching let that position down more than any as well because no one seemed to make any progress at that position. I am willing to entertain the notion that the previous regime looked for a certain thing in the players at that position and it wasn't what they should have been looking for but I still think there was a lot of failure in development being the biggest cause for problems. 

[JuranBoldenRules]

Standardized scouting system is probably one of the more oxymoronic things I've ever heard.

 

Basically what they've described is a computer program where they are entering scouting reports and prioritizing players based on their perceptions of them, which is what GM's and scouts have been doing on paper, magnetic boards and whiteboards for the last 100 years.  What's standardized about it?  Are all 9 CFL teams sharing their scouting reports on prospects, and then this program generates a grade for each player?  Nope.

[Mr Dee]

As for the o-line, I still maintain the coaching let that position down more than any as well because no one seemed to make any progress at that position. I am willing to entertain the notion that the previous regime looked for a certain thing in the players at that position and it wasn't what they should have been looking for but I still think there was a lot of failure in development being the biggest cause for problems. 

 

 

I support the coaching theory, I just don't see it in defending the likes of Boatman and Taormina.

They should have been replaced.

[Rids]

The system isn't a standardized scouting program. That word standardized showed up in this thread. 

 

The Dan Rambo organization has a database with 110,000 players in it with their playing history, agent contact info and it's updated on a daily basis with the most recent transactions. On the other side of the program teams can log in from anyplace in the country. The scouts are able to input their thoughts, grades and details on players they've seen while the general manager can log in and check on where they are at for reviewing players. I've known some individuals that have worked for FBXchange but haven't seen all of the new capabilities on the team management side yet. Not sure if scout A submits a report on a player if scout B can see that report or only the GM. 

 

 

 

 

Every tryout brings 60 to 85 players out. Players pre-register so you have an idea of 95% of the players that will be there ahead of time (some late additions always). Using a program like this you can put all these player names into a list and print them out so you can see their backgrounds.

Then tie in the scouting combines where you'll get to see another 100 to 150 at a time and you can take the top testers and add them into a list as well. Some of the mobile options are really interesting (although some of the locations make any sort of internet connection next to impossible). 

 

There are quite a few programs similar to this. Some are bare bones that you purchase (one time fee vs monthly cost) and then have to populate, some are nice that let you upload/download from an excel file, basically some are better than others. FBXchange is designed by somebody with a solid knowledge of what the CFL teams need which is a pretty nice feature all in itself. 

[ediger]

The system isn't a standardized scouting program. That word standardized showed up in this thread. 

 

The Dan Rambo organization has a database with 110,000 players in it with their playing history, agent contact info and it's updated on a daily basis with the most recent transactions. On the other side of the program teams can log in from anyplace in the country. The scouts are able to input their thoughts, grades and details on players they've seen while the general manager can log in and check on where they are at for reviewing players. I've known some individuals that have worked for FBXchange but haven't seen all of the new capabilities on the team management side yet. Not sure if scout A submits a report on a player if scout B can see that report or only the GM. 

 

 

 

 

Every tryout brings 60 to 85 players out. Players pre-register so you have an idea of 95% of the players that will be there ahead of time (some late additions always). Using a program like this you can put all these player names into a list and print them out so you can see their backgrounds.

Then tie in the scouting combines where you'll get to see another 100 to 150 at a time and you can take the top testers and add them into a list as well. Some of the mobile options are really interesting (although some of the locations make any sort of internet connection next to impossible). 

 

There are quite a few programs similar to this. Some are bare bones that you purchase (one time fee vs monthly cost) and then have to populate, some are nice that let you upload/download from an excel file, basically some are better than others. FBXchange is designed by somebody with a solid knowledge of what the CFL teams need which is a pretty nice feature all in itself. 

 

Thanks for the insight. Sounds like it could be a useful tool if used properly.

[DR. CFL]

Well how well did Rambo's scouting system work in Hamilton when Desjardins hired him there. Rambo had the hear of Hunt in Ottawa and got Desjardins hired there. I guess we'll see how it goes there now. Scouting ultimately is in the eye of the beholder. Napkins , 16 mm film, VCR it isn't the technology or the resources it is the evaluator.

[17to85]

As long as you are out there looking at prospects and picking the ones that actually can play I don't really care how you do it. I like the article, it's a good look at how they want to operate. Walters is going to have a lot of good will with the press giving them inside looks like that too, they love that ****. I really hope it all works out because bottom line I just want to see the team win. 

[Rids]

Well how well did Rambo's scouting system work in Hamilton when Desjardins hired him there. Rambo had the hear of Hunt in Ottawa and got Desjardins hired there. I guess we'll see how it goes there now. Scouting ultimately is in the eye of the beholder. Napkins , 16 mm film, VCR it isn't the technology or the resources it is the evaluator.

 

This is true that it comes down to the evaluator.

 

Honestly you can run a scouting department with an excel spreadsheet and submitted word doc reports to a shared online Google drive. It would cost you 10 laptops, 10 hotspot devices and the travel to go see 1000 players each off season. However the advantage to signing up for a service like this one is that you gain 15 years of history with a click of a button. The hours of research saved likely equal out to the cost of the service. Your GM doesn't have to dig around trying to find a proper contact for the player or who they are currently represented by or dig deep to find out if their representation is certified for the CFL. You can check to see their previous playing and testing history from a reliable source (40 yard dash time clocked by a reliable source vs crazy Uncle Leo is a valuable tool!!). 

 

If I've had players send me false information, you can only imagine what pro teams get from these players. Especially the ones bordering on desperation for their final shot at playing in the League which turns into desperation to playing in any League. 

 

I talked to a Dallas Cowboys scout once that was contacted by a receiver that was two years out of school. This receiver played at a good D2 school, had a reasonable career and playing resume. Included in what he sent to the scout was a workout tape showing marked improvement in his bench press and overall testing numbers. The 40 time in there showed the stopwatch on the screen to prove the time. So they brought him in for a workout. Turns out his great dash time was actually clocked at 37 yards instead of 40. Needless to say he didn't get an offer.

[iso_55]

Just funny how napkin Taman was skewered and then both Kelly and Mack did pretty much the same thing - ran a one man scouting show...

 

Good to see the bombers finally emerging from the stone age

More $$ in their pockets. 

[Guest]

How much were Moll and Mack making collectively ?

[gbill2004]

How much were Moll and Mack making collectively ?

One million dollars!

[Jacquie]

How much were Moll and Mack making collectively ?

I doubt as much as Wiecek was implying. Walter's said the scouting budget was basically the same as before, not that the Football Ops budget was the same. Mack's salary wasn't part of the scouting budget and iirc he was said to be the lowest paid GM in the League. I also wouldn't be surprised if Moll's salary wasn't included in the scouting budget either but under a management salaries budget item.