Stadium Flooded

[iso_55]

If this water damage had happened at the Law Courts Building (it's still called that, isn't it?) wouldn't the news media been in there reporting on the damage? You bet they would have. The LCB was built with 100% taxpayers money. Just like IGF was built with taxpayers money.

The Winnipeg news media  would have reported the story, shown the damage at the LCB, told how repairs will proceed, how long they'll take, describe how court cases will either have to be moved or set aside to a later date & then the media in a few days would have moved on.... It could have been the same way at IGF. A major news story a few days ago & virtually forgotten by now.

Miller in his infinite wisdom decided it wasn't the way to go so now any negative media or reactions by Winnipeggers is on him. Unfortunately, it'll reflect poorly on the Bombers as an organization & it wasn't even the Bombers fault. That's the shame of all this.

[Nasty Nate]

If this water damage had happened at the Law Courts Building (it's still called that, isn't it?) wouldn't the news media been in there reporting on the damage? You bet they would have. The LCB was built with 100% taxpayers money. Just like IGF was built with taxpayers money.

The Winnipeg news media  would have reported the story, shown the damage at the LCB, told how repairs will proceed, how long they'll take, describe how court cases will either have to be moved or set aside to a later date & then the media in a few days would have moved on.... It could have been the same way at IGF. A major news story a few days ago & virtually forgotten by now.

Miller in his infinite wisdom decided it wasn't the way to go so now any negative media or reactions by Winnipeggers is on him. Unfortunately, it'll reflect poorly on the Bombers as an organization & it wasn't even the Bombers fault. That's the shame of all this.

You nailed it. Trying to hide the problem invokes suspicion of something very, very ominous. If its not then let the media in. If it is something that could potentially suspend operations its only a matter of time. And as they say - time is valuable!

[Brandon]

If this water damage had happened at the Law Courts Building (it's still called that, isn't it?) wouldn't the news media been in there reporting on the damage? You bet they would have. The LCB was built with 100% taxpayers money. Just like IGF was built with taxpayers money.

The Winnipeg news media  would have reported the story, shown the damage at the LCB, told how repairs will proceed, how long they'll take, describe how court cases will either have to be moved or set aside to a later date & then the media in a few days would have moved on.... It could have been the same way at IGF. A major news story a few days ago & virtually forgotten by now.

Miller in his infinite wisdom decided it wasn't the way to go so now any negative media or reactions by Winnipeggers is on him. Unfortunately, it'll reflect poorly on the Bombers as an organization & it wasn't even the Bombers fault. That's the shame of all this.

 

Well I know someone who works at the Law Courts Building and they have had lots of issues with the building (nothing as exciting as the flood) but similar issues that were very expensive to fix yet that never made it to the news.  

[iso_55]

I'm talking flood Brandon. Water coming thru the roof causing significant damage enough to close the place down. It would be news.

[Valderan_CA]

Except this isn't going to shut the place down... if we have cancelled games because of water damage and they still don't let the media take a look see then I totally agree that we paid for it and deserve to see it.

 

If all we ever hear about it is some inside source saying the damage was crazy bad, never a cancelled game or complaint from anybody using the facility and no missed payments by the Bombers because of having to make repairs... well like Brandon said - expensive issues to be fixed in the law courts, never a mention in the news

[Nasty Nate]

Ironically this entire mess might end up in the law courts!

[Mike]

I'm talking flood Brandon. Water coming thru the roof causing significant damage enough to close the place down. It would be news.

 

But there wasn't water coming through the roof that caused any kind of damage resulting in a facility shutdown ...

[The Unknown Poster]

- Anyone who compares this to the Saddledome is an idiot

 

- It *is* a news story.

 

- Im not sure Wade Miller is smart enough to realise he shouldn't have been perceived as deceptive on this one.  If he was smart, he would have denied Friesen access and invited some friendly media.  Either the damage is not as bad as Friesen states and he gets to hang it around his neck or it *is* as bad (or worse) and Miller comes across as honest and forthright.

[Valderan_CA]

- Anyone who compares this to the Saddledome is an idiot

 

- It *is* a news story.

 

- Im not sure Wade Miller is smart enough to realise he shouldn't have been perceived as deceptive on this one.  If he was smart, he would have denied Friesen access and invited some friendly media.  Either the damage is not as bad as Friesen states and he gets to hang it around his neck or it *is* as bad (or worse) and Miller comes across as honest and forthright.

 

 

OR the damage LOOKS really bad, but really isn't (because people are really poor at judging how much it will cost to fix drywall, especially since water damage in a house often comes with mold and is devastating)

 

Now you have a bunch of people thinking the stadium is a complete shitshow when all it needs is a little repair and some drainage provisions added (all at a cost which is at worst covered by Bombers Insurance)

[max power]

Here's my question:  Does anyone really care about this story at all, other than people that have an agenda to trash the Bombers at every opportunity, or one of the levels of government at every opportunity?

Or does every Manitoban fall under one of those categories anyways, so we can expect these stadium fiascos to continue for a while?

[iso_55]

Max, it's a story. People do care. It may not have been a big deal had the stadium not gone into cost overruns & delayed a year but it's just one more black eye with the facility. The thing that makes it more "newsworthy" is the fact Miller won't let the media in. We can only hope that this is the last thing that happens. 

[DR. CFL]

If someone things drainage issues are easily solved they clearly have never dealt with a drainage problem. Water under any circumstance be it in the environment or in a man made situation has only one guiding influence. That being GRAVITY. If there is a crack or crevese it will find it and flow where gravity takes it. Seal up one spot and it will flow and travel until the next. For someone to simply pass this off as a minor problem is either uneducated, inexperienced, delusional or simply thinks the rest of us are idiots.

[17to85]

If someone things drainage issues are easily solved they clearly have never dealt with a drainage problem. Water under any circumstance be it in the environment or in a man made situation has only one guiding influence. That being GRAVITY. If there is a crack or crevese it will find it and flow where gravity takes it. Seal up one spot and it will flow and travel until the next. For someone to simply pass this off as a minor problem is either uneducated, inexperienced, delusional or simply thinks the rest of us are idiots.

 

not exactly. Sure gravity dictates that it's going to flow downwards, but it will flow in the path of least resistance which right there adds more guiding influences. 

[blueandgoldguy]

They have 3.5 weeks to fix the issue before the Women's Soccer Friendly at the stadium.  The Bomber organization said this flooding would not effect the date of that game (May 8).  Guess we will find out within a couple weeks if that is true.

[The Unknown Poster]

 

- Anyone who compares this to the Saddledome is an idiot

 

- It *is* a news story.

 

- Im not sure Wade Miller is smart enough to realise he shouldn't have been perceived as deceptive on this one.  If he was smart, he would have denied Friesen access and invited some friendly media.  Either the damage is not as bad as Friesen states and he gets to hang it around his neck or it *is* as bad (or worse) and Miller comes across as honest and forthright.

 

 

OR the damage LOOKS really bad, but really isn't (because people are really poor at judging how much it will cost to fix drywall, especially since water damage in a house often comes with mold and is devastating)

 

Now you have a bunch of people thinking the stadium is a complete shitshow when all it needs is a little repair and some drainage provisions added (all at a cost which is at worst covered by Bombers Insurance)

 

Thats a good point and another reason for the Bombers to be protective.  The Bombers need to find a middle ground between being open with the public and running a business.  But too often, they focus only on one of those.

[DR. CFL]

Well cracks and gaps don't offer much resistance combined with the porous nature of concrete can be a major contributor to damage. I still maintain that there is no simple, quick or cheap fix for this.

[max power]

Max, it's a story. People do care. It may not have been a big deal had the stadium not gone into cost overruns & delayed a year but it's just one more black eye with the facility. The thing that makes it more "newsworthy" is the fact Miller won't let the media in. We can only hope that this is the last thing that happens. 

 

You make it sound like it's been falling apart from the start.  What are the other black eyes again?  The traffic issues that they managed to pretty much solve within a week?  Or the *gasp* handrails that had to be replaced?!?!?  Or maybe the open-air press box that no fans will ever use, that will be enclosed in time for the Grey Cup and Winter Classics.  I guess if you add those up you have half a black eye, maybe.

[max power]

If someone things drainage issues are easily solved they clearly have never dealt with a drainage problem. Water under any circumstance be it in the environment or in a man made situation has only one guiding influence. That being GRAVITY. If there is a crack or crevese it will find it and flow where gravity takes it. Seal up one spot and it will flow and travel until the next. For someone to simply pass this off as a minor problem is either uneducated, inexperienced, delusional or simply thinks the rest of us are idiots.

 

[Mark H.]

 

If someone things drainage issues are easily solved they clearly have never dealt with a drainage problem. Water under any circumstance be it in the environment or in a man made situation has only one guiding influence. That being GRAVITY. If there is a crack or crevese it will find it and flow where gravity takes it. Seal up one spot and it will flow and travel until the next. For someone to simply pass this off as a minor problem is either uneducated, inexperienced, delusional or simply thinks the rest of us are idiots.

 

 

Don't fix the leak in your bathroom - it's just going to run to the kitchen, the bedrooms, and the rec room.

[iso_55]

 

Max, it's a story. People do care. It may not have been a big deal had the stadium not gone into cost overruns & delayed a year but it's just one more black eye with the facility. The thing that makes it more "newsworthy" is the fact Miller won't let the media in. We can only hope that this is the last thing that happens. 

 

You make it sound like it's been falling apart from the start.  What are the other black eyes again?  The traffic issues that they managed to pretty much solve within a week?  Or the *gasp* handrails that had to be replaced?!?!?  Or maybe the open-air press box that no fans will ever use, that will be enclosed in time for the Grey Cup and Winter Classics.  I guess if you add those up you have half a black eye, maybe.

 

What are the black eyes? Sure, just overlook the year delay, the open press box, having to winterize the plumbing, handrails, cost overruns, the denial by Buchko that the Bombers would never play at Canada Inns Stadium again when everybody with 2 good eyes could see they would & then did  & the traffic problem the first exhibition game. If you conveniently ignore those then it's been peaches & cream. Hey, I love the new stadium & hopefully everything gets fixed right from now on but c'mon, man.

I'm a big stadium booster & think it was money well spent. We got a great bang for the buck & I'm proud of that facility which makes it tougher for me to take what is going on but I just believe that Miller should have been more open with the damage... My take is that the Bombers don't own that stadium... They haven't made a single payment on their share of the debt so Miller really doesn't have the right to keep the media out. It should be the Province calling the shots with the media not Miller but Sellinger isn't stupid. He just saw Miller take a shot to the chest for his government so as a typical politician why should he or his government say or do anything?

[Rich]

 

 

Max, it's a story. People do care. It may not have been a big deal had the stadium not gone into cost overruns & delayed a year but it's just one more black eye with the facility. The thing that makes it more "newsworthy" is the fact Miller won't let the media in. We can only hope that this is the last thing that happens. 

 

You make it sound like it's been falling apart from the start.  What are the other black eyes again?  The traffic issues that they managed to pretty much solve within a week?  Or the *gasp* handrails that had to be replaced?!?!?  Or maybe the open-air press box that no fans will ever use, that will be enclosed in time for the Grey Cup and Winter Classics.  I guess if you add those up you have half a black eye, maybe.

 

What are the black eyes? Sure, just overlook the year delay, the open press box, having to winterize the plumbing, handrails, cost overruns, the denial by Buchko that the Bombers would never play at Canada Inns Stadium again when everybody with 2 good eyes could see they would & then did  & the traffic problem the first exhibition game. If you conveniently ignore those then it's been peaches & cream. Hey, I love the new stadium & hopefully everything gets fixed right from now on but c'mon, man.

I'm a big stadium booster & think it was money well spent. We got a great bang for the buck & I'm proud of that facility which makes it tougher for me to take what is going on but I just believe that Miller should have been more open with the damage... My take is that the Bombers don't own that stadium... They haven't made a single payment on their share of the debt so Miller really doesn't have the right to keep the media out. It should be the Province calling the shots with the media not Miller but Sellinger isn't stupid. He just saw Miller take a shot to the chest for his government so as a typical politician why should he or his government say or do anything?

 

 

When you get a loan from a bank to buy a car or a house and that car or house gets damaged, is it your responsibility to decide who and how the damage is going to be repaired or does the bank get to step in and tell you how to do it.

 

Doesn't matter if a payment hasn't been made yet, the terms of the loan specify that they haven't had to make a payment yet (yes its been renegotiated but it still has been agreed upon).  The Bombers haven't defaulted on any payments yet.

[Valderan_CA]

If someone things drainage issues are easily solved they clearly have never dealt with a drainage problem. Water under any circumstance be it in the environment or in a man made situation has only one guiding influence. That being GRAVITY. If there is a crack or crevese it will find it and flow where gravity takes it. Seal up one spot and it will flow and travel until the next. For someone to simply pass this off as a minor problem is either uneducated, inexperienced, delusional or simply thinks the rest of us are idiots.

 

Yeh it only goes one way - get your slopes right and you know explicitly where water will follow.

[iso_55]

 

 

 

Max, it's a story. People do care. It may not have been a big deal had the stadium not gone into cost overruns & delayed a year but it's just one more black eye with the facility. The thing that makes it more "newsworthy" is the fact Miller won't let the media in. We can only hope that this is the last thing that happens. 

 

You make it sound like it's been falling apart from the start.  What are the other black eyes again?  The traffic issues that they managed to pretty much solve within a week?  Or the *gasp* handrails that had to be replaced?!?!?  Or maybe the open-air press box that no fans will ever use, that will be enclosed in time for the Grey Cup and Winter Classics.  I guess if you add those up you have half a black eye, maybe.

 

What are the black eyes? Sure, just overlook the year delay, the open press box, having to winterize the plumbing, handrails, cost overruns, the denial by Buchko that the Bombers would never play at Canada Inns Stadium again when everybody with 2 good eyes could see they would & then did  & the traffic problem the first exhibition game. If you conveniently ignore those then it's been peaches & cream. Hey, I love the new stadium & hopefully everything gets fixed right from now on but c'mon, man.

I'm a big stadium booster & think it was money well spent. We got a great bang for the buck & I'm proud of that facility which makes it tougher for me to take what is going on but I just believe that Miller should have been more open with the damage... My take is that the Bombers don't own that stadium... They haven't made a single payment on their share of the debt so Miller really doesn't have the right to keep the media out. It should be the Province calling the shots with the media not Miller but Sellinger isn't stupid. He just saw Miller take a shot to the chest for his government so as a typical politician why should he or his government say or do anything?

 

 

When you get a loan from a bank to buy a car or a house and that car or house gets damaged, is it your responsibility to decide who and how the damage is going to be repaired or does the bank get to step in and tell you how to do it.

 

Doesn't matter if a payment hasn't been made yet, the terms of the loan specify that they haven't had to make a payment yet (yes its been renegotiated but it still has been agreed upon).  The Bombers haven't defaulted on any payments yet.

 

You can't compare a car loan to a commercial structure that is publicly funded. Sure, the insurance will kick  in & fix the damage. Truth is, the province owns the building. They should have final say who goes in & who doesn't. Not Miller.

[Nasty Nate]

 

 

 

 

Max, it's a story. People do care. It may not have been a big deal had the stadium not gone into cost overruns & delayed a year but it's just one more black eye with the facility. The thing that makes it more "newsworthy" is the fact Miller won't let the media in. We can only hope that this is the last thing that happens. 

 

You make it sound like it's been falling apart from the start.  What are the other black eyes again?  The traffic issues that they managed to pretty much solve within a week?  Or the *gasp* handrails that had to be replaced?!?!?  Or maybe the open-air press box that no fans will ever use, that will be enclosed in time for the Grey Cup and Winter Classics.  I guess if you add those up you have half a black eye, maybe.

 

What are the black eyes? Sure, just overlook the year delay, the open press box, having to winterize the plumbing, handrails, cost overruns, the denial by Buchko that the Bombers would never play at Canada Inns Stadium again when everybody with 2 good eyes could see they would & then did  & the traffic problem the first exhibition game. If you conveniently ignore those then it's been peaches & cream. Hey, I love the new stadium & hopefully everything gets fixed right from now on but c'mon, man.

I'm a big stadium booster & think it was money well spent. We got a great bang for the buck & I'm proud of that facility which makes it tougher for me to take what is going on but I just believe that Miller should have been more open with the damage... My take is that the Bombers don't own that stadium... They haven't made a single payment on their share of the debt so Miller really doesn't have the right to keep the media out. It should be the Province calling the shots with the media not Miller but Sellinger isn't stupid. He just saw Miller take a shot to the chest for his government so as a typical politician why should he or his government say or do anything?

 

 

When you get a loan from a bank to buy a car or a house and that car or house gets damaged, is it your responsibility to decide who and how the damage is going to be repaired or does the bank get to step in and tell you how to do it.

 

Doesn't matter if a payment hasn't been made yet, the terms of the loan specify that they haven't had to make a payment yet (yes its been renegotiated but it still has been agreed upon).  The Bombers haven't defaulted on any payments yet.

 

You can't compare a car loan to a commercial structure that is publicly funded. Sure, the insurance will kick  in & fix the damage. Truth is, the province owns the building. They should have final say who goes in & who doesn't. Not Miller.

 

I agree that Selinger is quite delighted Wade took the hit for him. Selinger hasn't exactly been up front about stadium damage cuz he knows the final destination of all the bills. His office. And he knows that if cameras are allowed on the premises most people will be able to make their own fairly accurate estimate as to whether its small, medium or excessive damage.

 

In situations like this the government of the day (Selinger currently, others after Selinger flees in a few months) will just do the same thing they do with all mega-projects. They'll try to amortize it off into an indeterminate future. The 208 million is locked. But if it takes another 50 or 70 million to finish the thing - then do it in stages, 10 million every couple years - and do it via hazy government grants or more long-term loans. IN essence, bury the money into the longest and most future period possible.