Chevy

[Jacquie]

I said no such thing so stop trying to twist my words. I was specifically talking about Rask - not making a generalization and you know it. I said Rask is a solid goalie but he does NOT carry the Bruins.

But I think it's a bit of an exaggeration to say that the Bruins could have any goaltender and still be fine. Rask is a hell of a goaltender and I think he can carry a team. The Bruins aren't supermen, teams can and do outplay them, but Rask can stand tall and bail them out as well.

I agree Rask can stand tall and bail them out but he isn't put in the position where he has to do that game after game after game. That is why I say he doesn't carry the Bruins.

[iso_55]

Rask isn't huh? He's a great goaltender. Like I said, you haven't given me any argument to support your side of the discussion. 

[Goalie]

rask is one of the best goalies in the league, he does steal games for the bruins, quite a bit actually.  Boston is a good team but they arent invincible, they have bad games too and when they do, rask is there for them.

 

Rasks save percentage on scoring chances is 916, the league average on scoring chance save percentage is 880.

 

Yeah he's just average .

 

This idea that boston has this great team is crazy, sure they are good but... their d outside of chara and seidenberg(but hasnt he been injured all year really) consist of rookies like krug, dougie hamilton, matt bartkowski, aint exactly household names outside of chara.

[Mr Dee]

It's the old 'championship teams aren't that good' argument.

Make no mistake..Boston has a very good team.

They are well coached and use their lineup as well as anybody.

When you talk about Boston's D you have to include how well they cover their defensive responsibilities…and they cover them well.

Guys like Bergeron, Marchand and Krejci are hated around the league but they defend well.

I'm not going to take anything away from Rask..he's a good goalie but Boston's a Championship Team, from Iginla to Thorton, and will be 'til dethroned.

Is it Rask who makes the Bruins or the Bruins that make Rask?

I'd say it's a lot of both.

 

[17to85]

Rask is part of why the Bruins are such a great team without question. I personally think he's in the top teir of goaltenders.

[The Unknown Poster]

 

We shall see.  Remember this thread a year from now and we'll see if he was a 70 point player or an 80 point player!

to get 80 points you need to be healthy an entire year and score every game, one slump and that's all shot to hell. Guys who cracked 80 points this past season include Crosby, Getzlaf, Giroux, Seguin, Perry, Kessel, Hall. Wheeler is not in that company when it comes to offence. 

 

Yes he is.

[17to85]

 

 

We shall see.  Remember this thread a year from now and we'll see if he was a 70 point player or an 80 point player!

to get 80 points you need to be healthy an entire year and score every game, one slump and that's all shot to hell. Guys who cracked 80 points this past season include Crosby, Getzlaf, Giroux, Seguin, Perry, Kessel, Hall. Wheeler is not in that company when it comes to offence. 

 

Yes he is.

 

No he isn't

[sweep the leg]

 

This idea that boston has this great team is crazy, sure they are good but... their d outside of chara and seidenberg(but hasnt he been injured all year really) consist of rookies like krug, dougie hamilton, matt bartkowski, aint exactly household names outside of chara.

Exactly. If somebody isn't a household name it means they aren't very good. This is especially true for defenseman, who always get all of the glory.

[The Unknown Poster]

 

 

 

We shall see.  Remember this thread a year from now and we'll see if he was a 70 point player or an 80 point player!

to get 80 points you need to be healthy an entire year and score every game, one slump and that's all shot to hell. Guys who cracked 80 points this past season include Crosby, Getzlaf, Giroux, Seguin, Perry, Kessel, Hall. Wheeler is not in that company when it comes to offence. 

 

Yes he is.

 

No he isn't

 

Yes he is.  Not Crosby but Wheeler is in the category of guys that can score a point per game.  Without looking up the stat (Im too lazy), Wheeler was scoring at that pace for X amount of the season.  He had a slow start.  Had he not had a slow start, he scores 80 *this* season.  Now ofcourse, if I learn to skate, get into shape and practice my shot then I guess Im an NHL calibre player.  Everything is subjective.  But Wheeler has the skill and talent to score 80 points.

[17to85]

 

 

 

 

We shall see.  Remember this thread a year from now and we'll see if he was a 70 point player or an 80 point player!

to get 80 points you need to be healthy an entire year and score every game, one slump and that's all shot to hell. Guys who cracked 80 points this past season include Crosby, Getzlaf, Giroux, Seguin, Perry, Kessel, Hall. Wheeler is not in that company when it comes to offence. 

 

Yes he is.

 

No he isn't

 

Yes he is.  Not Crosby but Wheeler is in the category of guys that can score a point per game.  Without looking up the stat (Im too lazy), Wheeler was scoring at that pace for X amount of the season.  He had a slow start.  Had he not had a slow start, he scores 80 *this* season.  Now ofcourse, if I learn to skate, get into shape and practice my shot then I guess Im an NHL calibre player.  Everything is subjective.  But Wheeler has the skill and talent to score 80 points.

 

That is exactly the point, the number of guys who can play an entire season without a slow part is very small and Wheeler isn't one of them. Lots of guys can play at a PPG pace except for those couple weeks they didn't. The ability to play a full season at a PPG is rare and Wheeler doesn't have it. 

[Goalie]

wheeler is a very good player but he's definitely not a crosby getzlaf perry or whatever tho.

 

However, he can be a point a game player and was for the last 30 or so games of the season.

 

Im not sure how this point a game thing works, cuz guys like crosby getzlaf etc, they all go on these points sprees where they get tons of points in a few games then are invisible for a few. Im not sure anyone is technically a point per game player, maybe crosby but... you also have to look at who he plays with. Crosby is on a stacked penguins team, getzlaf and perry are team and line mates. wheeler dont have a crosby or getzlaf or perry to play with. You put him with one of those guys tho and i think he does become a point per game player. He almost is right now.

 

Is wheeler one of the best players in the league? its debatable, is he the best jet player? for sure he is, would he more then likely be our all star nomination, you bet he would be.

 

Wheeler has improved every year, ever since coming here actually, guys been good, is he crosby or getzalf or perry? no but who is really.

 

Comparing wheeler to those guys are crazy actually.. like i said tho, give wheeler a crosby or getzlaf or perry to play with and he probably is.

[The Unknown Poster]

Good post.  Im taking into account a full year of Kane-Scheif-Wheeler and extrapolating some very impressive numbers.

[17to85]

 

Im not sure how this point a game thing works, cuz guys like crosby getzlaf etc, they all go on these points sprees where they get tons of points in a few games then are invisible for a few. Im not sure anyone is technically a point per game player, maybe crosby but... 

well point per game is simply your pace. if you want to score 80 points in a season you basically need to average a point every game. Yeah it works out that you might miss some nights and have multi point games other nights but the key is the guys who score 80 points or better generally don't have many stretches where they are held off the board. For example one of last seasons 80 point guys (and I use this example because I saw it recently) Taylor Hall, he never went more than 2 games in a row without scoring a point. That's the kind of consistency it takes to score 80 points in the NHL and Wheeler just isn't that guy. 

 

I wouldn't say he's improved each year in Winnipeg either, at least not from a point perspective. He had 69 this year, his pace was 70 in the lockout year, and he had 64 the year before that. That's pretty consistent production when you break it down. So what is going to make him take that next big jump to an 80 point player at 27 years old?

[Nasty Nate]

Wheeler suffers from playing on an inferior team. When you have slugs with no hands on your line or reckless careless types like Kane you'll have trouble amassing 80 pts. Schiefele and Wheeler together I like big-time - but having a problem guy like Kane can go several ways - most of them wrong!

[Goalie]

Nate: whats your issue with kane? the guy is what? 22 23 years old, has put up  30 one year, on pace for  30 lockout year, would have probably had 30 this year if not injured for so long at times, would have had 20 had he not passed it to peluso on the empty net earlier.

 

But as i said b4, if the jets were around in 2009 and were drafting 3rd in that draft year, would they have taken kane? i dunno they would have. Jets seem to value high character guys, guys without attitude issues. say what you will about kane but he does indee have character issues.

 

But outside of what kane does off the ice, cuz really who cares.... what makes you dislike him so much?

 

you talk about wheeler playing with slugs, kane played with jokinen, who is the definition of a slug.

[Nasty Nate]

Nate: whats your issue with kane? the guy is what? 22 23 years old, has put up  30 one year, on pace for  30 lockout year, would have probably had 30 this year if not injured for so long at times, would have had 20 had he not passed it to peluso on the empty net earlier.

 

But as i said b4, if the jets were around in 2009 and were drafting 3rd in that draft year, would they have taken kane? i dunno they would have. Jets seem to value high character guys, guys without attitude issues. say what you will about kane but he does indee have character issues.

 

But outside of what kane does off the ice, cuz really who cares.... what makes you dislike him so much?

 

you talk about wheeler playing with slugs, kane played with jokinen, who is the definition of a slug.

There are worse slugs than Jokinen but most of them infest NHL bottom feeder 3rd and 4th lines or AHL 2nd lines.

The pre-scouting that the Jets do now to find 'character guys' would have filtered Kane from the pool during his draft year. I suspect Atlanta took him cuz they didn't have much of a scouting staff - they relied on Central Scouting's stats.

 

Kane has some nice assets. He's fairly big, he's fairly strong, he has a wacko slap shot, he has a big wrist shot and he can skate like the wind.

 

His negatives. Doesn't utilize his size and strength when it counts, his slapshot is most often errant, he waits too long to let go his wristers - allowing defenders to put a stick on him or goalies to move into position - he also lets rip errant shots which ring off the back boards and allow opponents an immediate 3 on 2. 

 

I've rapped on this a lot but Kane would make a great rat if any team could make him go defensively nuts - he'd be a big Brad Marchand type. But I think Kane wants to be a goal-scorer. Thats the problem. 

[17to85]

Kane IS a goalscorer... god damn Nate you say some stupid **** sometimes. 

[Floyd]

Atlanta did not pick Kane because 'they did not have much of a scouting staff'...  

 

Who should they have picked... Brayden Schenn?  Nazem Kadri...?

[Nasty Nate]

Kane IS a goalscorer... god damn Nate you say some stupid **** sometimes. 

If you can call 18 goals in an 82 game season a GOAL SCORER!!!

But Evander has a pile of excuses - self-inflicted injuries, infections, bad coach, new bad coach, linemates with stubby hands, linemates with no hands. 

 

Trouble is - at this point he's untradeable as a 30 goal scorer - cuz he's NOT a 30 goal scorer. He's a 15 to 20 goal scorer and for 6 million a year, thats not only a money blow - its a formula for golf in April.

[Goalie]

Atlanta did not pick Kane because 'they did not have much of a scouting staff'...  

 

Who should they have picked... Brayden Schenn?  Nazem Kadri...?

 

im not talking about atlanta, im talking about the JETS and i honestly doubt the jets would have taken him. The jets take high character guys.. Kane isnt a high character guy. They probably would have taken schenn cuz he does indeed fit the mold of the player the jets seem to like.

[Goalie]

 

Kane IS a goalscorer... god damn Nate you say some stupid **** sometimes. 

If you can call 18 goals in an 82 game season a GOAL SCORER!!!

But Evander has a pile of excuses - self-inflicted injuries, infections, bad coach, new bad coach, linemates with stubby hands, linemates with no hands. 

 

Trouble is - at this point he's untradeable as a 30 goal scorer - cuz he's NOT a 30 goal scorer. He's a 15 to 20 goal scorer and for 6 million a year, thats not only a money blow - its a formula for golf in April.

 

actually in todays world, 6 million does seem to get you about a 25-30 goal scorer. You need to take a look at some of the guys making that type of money and you will see, kane is pretty good  value for what he brings. Seem to have a dislike for the guy, thats fine but dont kid yourself that he isnt tradable, he's very very very tradable. He'd get the jets a very nice return for sure. Whether you think so or not.

[Nasty Nate]

I'd really love to see Kane trade but like iso says it probably ain't gonna happen cuz Chevy is way too careful in protecting his perceived value. Chevy might see Kane as a 25 to 30 goal scorer who could even get to 35 if he played all 82 games.

 

Teams that want him prolly see him as a 15 to 20 goal scorer who takes undisciplined penalties at inopportune times, misses large batches of games.

 

In both scenarios he's pulling down 6 million. 

 

The difference between achieved results and potential is the main reason Evander won't be traded. If he is I'd be happy with a couple draft picks (Late first rounder, mid second rounder and a shutdown 3rd line winger who can still score 10 to 15 goals)

[17to85]

 

Kane IS a goalscorer... god damn Nate you say some stupid **** sometimes. 

If you can call 18 goals in an 82 game season a GOAL SCORER!!!

But Evander has a pile of excuses - self-inflicted injuries, infections, bad coach, new bad coach, linemates with stubby hands, linemates with no hands. 

 

Trouble is - at this point he's untradeable as a 30 goal scorer - cuz he's NOT a 30 goal scorer. He's a 15 to 20 goal scorer and for 6 million a year, thats not only a money blow - its a formula for golf in April.

 

He had 19 goals in 63 games..... how is that an 18 goal scorer in an 82 game season? This past year he had injuries and other struggles and still almost hit 20 goals. He had 17 goals in 48 games last season in the lockout, that's a 30 goal pace basically. He had 30 goals in 74 games the season before. You might have the axe to grind but don't sit there and tell me the kid isn't a goal scorer. He was one of the highest rated players in his draft year for good reason. 

[Floyd]

 

Atlanta did not pick Kane because 'they did not have much of a scouting staff'...  

 

Who should they have picked... Brayden Schenn?  Nazem Kadri...?

 

im not talking about atlanta, im talking about the JETS and i honestly doubt the jets would have taken him. The jets take high character guys.. Kane isnt a high character guy. They probably would have taken schenn cuz he does indeed fit the mold of the player the jets seem to like.

 

 

I am not a Kane fan but in terms of talent and potential, it was pretty much impossible not to pick Kane fourth...  basically, your top 4 are the elite picks that year

 

If anything failed Kane, it was Atlanta's development system...  same goes for Bogosian.  Both of those players would be better if they were in our current system.

[Brandon]

I don't know how one an debate that Kane is not a goal scorer...   his negatives are more so along the lines of him not being able to pass , taking shifts off,  taking dumb penalties ,  taking way to many shots.....