Chevy

[The Unknown Poster]

 

 

Im not sure how this point a game thing works, cuz guys like crosby getzlaf etc, they all go on these points sprees where they get tons of points in a few games then are invisible for a few. Im not sure anyone is technically a point per game player, maybe crosby but... 

well point per game is simply your pace. if you want to score 80 points in a season you basically need to average a point every game. Yeah it works out that you might miss some nights and have multi point games other nights but the key is the guys who score 80 points or better generally don't have many stretches where they are held off the board. For example one of last seasons 80 point guys (and I use this example because I saw it recently) Taylor Hall, he never went more than 2 games in a row without scoring a point. That's the kind of consistency it takes to score 80 points in the NHL and Wheeler just isn't that guy. 

 

I wouldn't say he's improved each year in Winnipeg either, at least not from a point perspective. He had 69 this year, his pace was 70 in the lockout year, and he had 64 the year before that. That's pretty consistent production when you break it down. So what is going to make him take that next big jump to an 80 point player at 27 years old?

 

Playing with better players like Kane and Scheif.

[The Unknown Poster]

 

Kane IS a goalscorer... god damn Nate you say some stupid **** sometimes. 

If you can call 18 goals in an 82 game season a GOAL SCORER!!!

But Evander has a pile of excuses - self-inflicted injuries, infections, bad coach, new bad coach, linemates with stubby hands, linemates with no hands. 

 

Trouble is - at this point he's untradeable as a 30 goal scorer - cuz he's NOT a 30 goal scorer. He's a 15 to 20 goal scorer and for 6 million a year, thats not only a money blow - its a formula for golf in April.

 

 

I wouldnt call a serious hand infection an excuse.  I mean, he *did* have a serious hand infection.  Unless you're implying he was lying.

 

Sure there might be some players that just produce, produce, produce no matter what.  Kane has proven he can score.  He has all-world talent.  He's been shifted all over the line up.  He's had injuries.  And I cannot honestly tell you what his future holds in Winnipeg (Maurice *seemed* to demote Kane at the end of the season).  But no one can question Kane's talent.  If you want to be sure of his value, put him on the trade market - Jets will have no shortage of teams dying to make a play for him.

[iso_55]

Kane still has potential. His problem is maturity. Some guys grow  up faster than others. Once Kane does that watch out. He'll become a Jarome Iginla type player. 

[Goalie]

just gonna throw some crap on the wall here, see if it sticks.

 

Is this a fair trade for kane

 

To florida for the 1st overall and brandon pirri plus rights to mike matheson (d man)

 

is that a fair trade? i think it might be. 

 

Im not sure florida would make that trade but.. if i was them, id consider it.

 

Florida is in a situation where they need to win but... they are so young that i dunno if it can be done anytime soon.

 

They got luongo right now and brian campbell as their 2 best players (outside of barkov) but these guys are proven solid players. They arent exactly spring chickens. does kane speed up their rebuild more then the number 1 pick would?

 

Like i said, just throwing crap on the wall.

 

 

[Nasty Nate]

I accept some fans think Kane is the answer to all that ails the Jets.

 

I prefer to think he's the biggest question.

 

Its a difference of opinion. Opinion is not fact. 

 

I know some folks (minority) who think Toby Enstrom is a physical defensman. And other who think Ondrej Pavelec will be a Vezina candidate one day. 

[Goalie]

I accept some fans think Kane is the answer to all that ails the Jets.

 

I prefer to think he's the biggest question.

 

Its a difference of opinion. Opinion is not fact. 

 

I know some folks (minority) who think Toby Enstrom is a physical defensman. And other who think Ondrej Pavelec will be a Vezina candidate one day. 

im not opposed to trading kane if we get a good return on him. Really IMO the only untouchables are trouba bogo (cuz he signed a long term deal), wheeler scheif and little im gonna say. The rest IMO are fair game.

[Nasty Nate]

I'd trade Bogosian if there was value coming our way.

 

I also think Kane might thrive in another market but he's gonna be the same mope next year he was last year if he stays in town!

[Goalie]

I'd trade Bogosian if there was value coming our way.

 

I also think Kane might thrive in another market but he's gonna be the same mope next year he was last year if he stays in town!

your team would suck... who would take bogos minutes, i mean really you need 6 preferably 7 d man...

 

who do we have? trouba isnt proven yet.. we got toby and thats it really... and bogo. Trading your young d man would be the stupidist thing you can do. 

 

You dont pay attention tho do you? cuz you dont seem to understand the jets philosophy too well

 

Ill give you a hint on what it is.. since they have been saying this since 2011 now.. Its to build around the young players... bogo is one of those young players

 

What the heck, trade your depth d? that makes no sense, then what? trouba and toby but who is your second pairing? mark stuart and postma? i dont think so.

[Nasty Nate]

Bogo seems to be the same level as Kane in developement. 

 

I've seen Bogo play some really solid hockey but this year's resume is just a botch job. 

 

Both Kane and Bogosian sufferred by not having spent significant time in the minors and developing their respective skill sets.

 

Bogo seems to have a significantly better attitude, I'll give you that.

 

Now that I think about it trading Kane + Bogo as a package might yield a nice return.

 

Possibly 1st and 2nd rd draft picks plus a solid shut-down #2 or #3 d-man. (like Vlasic)

 

Too bad Byfuglien was never toilet-trained as a proper NHL d-man. For his size and power, he's really light on his skates when trying to clear debris in front of his goalie. But trying to get Byfuglien to go shut-down is probably a harder task than getting Kane to take less errant shots and fewer anger penalties.

[17to85]

just gonna throw some crap on the wall here, see if it sticks.

 

Is this a fair trade for kane

 

To florida for the 1st overall and brandon pirri plus rights to mike matheson (d man)

 

is that a fair trade? i think it might be. 

 

Im not sure florida would make that trade but.. if i was them, id consider it.

 

Florida is in a situation where they need to win but... they are so young that i dunno if it can be done anytime soon.

 

They got luongo right now and brian campbell as their 2 best players (outside of barkov) but these guys are proven solid players. They arent exactly spring chickens. does kane speed up their rebuild more then the number 1 pick would?

 

Like i said, just throwing crap on the wall.

Common thinking is that Florida covets the defenseman Ekblad. With Campbell getting older would make sense they'd be looking to get a D, especially when lots of people feel Ekblad is the best player in the draft and has the highest ceiling. 

 

I don't think Kane has enough value on his own to get a first overall pick anyway. Teams hold onto those picks very tightly. 

[The Unknown Poster]

I wouldnt even be asking the questions on Bogo yet.  He came to Winnipeg as a guy who wasnt living up to his potential and VASTLY improved under Huddy.  This past season he battled injuries, being asked to mentor Trouba, playing his off-side, a coaching change and the fact team D was awful for stretches.  I'd see how Bogo does this upcoming season before I'd even consider trading him.  Trouba is going to be a top D man and Bogo is going to be a very effective 3-4 guy for the next decade.

 

I have no problem trading Kane if thats the direction Maurice/Chevy decide to go.  But Im not going to pretend he sucks.  The return would be very strong.  Im not sure about the proposed Florday deal but getting the 1st overall would certainly be nice.  Id suspect Kane trade discussions have taken place at some level.  Chevy said that some of the deals he discussed at the deadline required ownership-level involvement.  That might mean anyone from Buff to Ladd to Kane.  Who knows at what level that Chipman has to sign off.

 

But it was made very clear that part of Maurice's mandate when he came in was to do a full evaluation of the roster and provide that information to Chevy.  Maurice would not have signed a contract here if he thought his voice wasn't being heard.  So the question remains, what does he think of Kane.  It seems he demoted Kane at the end of the season.  Tough love?  Not in his plans?  Who knows.  But nothing is equal until Maurice gets a full off-season and training camp to implement his systems.  He's been very honest about the team not being in good enough shape.  We will see how these guys show up to training camp.

 

I also think Atlanta screwed some guys.  Noel came in trying to "teach" guys like Burmi and Kane and got some push back.  But Kane seemed to get better even while pushing back.  If Kane thought he could powerplay with Noel, he will quickly see he cant with Maurice.  If it comes down to the team not being big enough for the both of them, Kane will be gonzo.  And if thats what he wants, I have no doubt Chevy will accomadate him.  But if Kane is at training camp and in shape, I'd consider the matter closed.

[Goalie]

i think the talking to ownership part at the deadline might have to do with the jets wanting to add some salary, but when scheif got hurt, that all changed.

 

Perhaps they were talking to buffalo about moulson or nyi about vankek.

 

That would require chipmans approval for sure as they would be going over their "budget".

 

There were strong reports out there suggesting the jets were heavily scouting buffalo games, rumors from everyone from christian erhoff to matt moulson to drew stafford. adding any one of those 3 would probably put the jets over their "budget" so im pretty positive thats what talking to chipman was all about. 

 

Jets wanting to add salary to make a playoff push, scheif got hurt so they didnt do it. 

[Nasty Nate]

I'd like to see the Jets trade one of their "loaders" so that their budget can accommodate potential solids like Moulson or Vanek, etc.

 

All the core guys now are in the $4.75 to 6.5 million range. ie. Ladd, Enstrom, Buff, Kane, Wheeler, Bogo.

 

They're lucky they've still got Trouba and Schiefele on the low entry bar.

 

 

As far as Maurice is concerned everyone thats still rostered is a 'great guy' and 'darn good player'. That applies to Kane. What Maurice really thinks of some of them will be hidden to the public for now - but actions speak louder than thoughts. At some point Chevy & Chipper will have to make a play on top free agents, trade out some picks, trade Kane or Buff or Ladd, etc.

 

Worst thing. They all believe Kane just had a bad year and will be much better next year. Next year comes and after a hot start (3 goals in 4 games) Kane starts tailing and falls into his typical bad habits. By the 30 game mark his value is diminished that they can't make the right trade for him so they either have to keep playing him or make him a 'wealthy scratch'. 

 

If the Jets keep their basic 12 guys (Pavelec, Montoya, Enstrom, Trouba, Stuart, Clitsome, Byfuglien, Kane, Slater, Ladd, Schiefle, Jokinen, plus the usual rounders, rookies and AHL callups I suspect they might be hard-pressed to match the mess they made this year.

[17to85]

I'd like to see the Jets trade one of their "loaders" so that their budget can accommodate potential solids like Moulson or Vanek, etc.

 

why in gods name do you think guys like that would sign in Winnipeg exactly? Especially someone like Vanek. He can basically write his own ticket on any contender looking to add a piece like him, Winnipeg is so far down the list of places big names are going it's not even funny. 

[Goalie]

 

I'd like to see the Jets trade one of their "loaders" so that their budget can accommodate potential solids like Moulson or Vanek, etc.

 

why in gods name do you think guys like that would sign in Winnipeg exactly? Especially someone like Vanek. He can basically write his own ticket on any contender looking to add a piece like him, Winnipeg is so far down the list of places big names are going it's not even funny. 

 

disagree with this big time. Vanek has a home in minnesota, if miny didnt want him and he wanted to play close to home, winnipeg is a logical destination. This attitude that players dont want to be here is so toronto. Im sick of it, its not about the city at all, its about the team, this team starts winning and everyone will want to sign here. 

[iso_55]

When the Jets were winning back in the WHA days & in the late 80's to early 90's Winnipeg had a huge rep as a great place to play. Winning changes everyone's perception.

[17to85]

 

 

I'd like to see the Jets trade one of their "loaders" so that their budget can accommodate potential solids like Moulson or Vanek, etc.

 

why in gods name do you think guys like that would sign in Winnipeg exactly? Especially someone like Vanek. He can basically write his own ticket on any contender looking to add a piece like him, Winnipeg is so far down the list of places big names are going it's not even funny. 

 

disagree with this big time. Vanek has a home in minnesota, if miny didnt want him and he wanted to play close to home, winnipeg is a logical destination. This attitude that players dont want to be here is so toronto. Im sick of it, its not about the city at all, its about the team, this team starts winning and everyone will want to sign here. 

 

Yeah but they're still a non playoff team. Hell there's lots of talk about the Wild wanting Vanek anyway or he could stay in Montreal where he's currently on a nice little playoff run and showing amazing chemistry with his linemates. Winnipeg might be a great destination when they start winning but they're not winners yet just another also ran who hasn't made the playoffs in ages. 

[road griller]

If you are expecting guys like Little and Wheeler even Ladd to carry your team night in night out all season you are going to end up with a .500 team over and over. They are very good but not great.

This was the hand they were dealt, they are building with the draft and adding a piece here and there without selling the farm. That is why I think Kane is gone, more picks now fits in with the remainder of the five year plan.

[iso_55]

Imagine trying to sell a Five Year plan in the US? In most NHL markets down there it would never fly. Other teams find a way to win a lot faster than this turtle like plodding rebuilding plan Cheveldayoff has. Even in Boston, Chicago & Detroit it  wouldn't work.

[Nasty Nate]

Al. This isn't a 5 year plan. Its more like a 7 to 10 yr plan.

 

This is year 4 in the so-called 5 yr plan and frankly I don't see much improvement over what they did last year (with Maurice injecting new spirit into the team after Clod went lifeless)

 

I think year 5 or 6 is when they start showing signs of life (playoff life that is) and still too many passengers on board.

 

Coaching has improved a tad (if not more, going from Lifeless Clod to spirited paul)

Goal-tending is sick (in a bad way)

Defense has shown strides (but in typical playoff action top teams would just cut thru our d like a hot knife thru butter)

Offense has improved the most but still not enough depth and really only 2 reliable lines!

[17to85]

Imagine trying to sell a Five Year plan in the US? In most NHL markets down there it would never fly. Other teams find a way to win a lot faster than this turtle like plodding rebuilding plan Cheveldayoff has. Even in Boston, Chicago & Detroit it  wouldn't work.

And that is exactly why the team Winnipeg inherited was complete ****. They never had patience with their young players and sold them for pennies on the dollar. When you are not an attractive free agent destination you have to build up a system that can sustain itself and that takes time. 

[Brandon]

Al. This isn't a 5 year plan. Its more like a 7 to 10 yr plan.

This is year 4 in the so-called 5 yr plan and frankly I don't see much improvement over what they did last year (with Maurice injecting new spirit into the team after Clod went lifeless)

I think year 5 or 6 is when they start showing signs of life (playoff life that is) and still too many passengers on board.

Coaching has improved a tad (if not more, going from Lifeless Clod to spirited paul)

Goal-tending is sick (in a bad way)

Defense has shown strides (but in typical playoff action top teams would just cut thru our d like a hot knife thru butter)

Offense has improved the most but still not enough depth and really only 2 reliable lines!

You didn't see any improvements?

I see a much better team then before, the previous years we had the benefit of playing much weaker teams on a more frequent basis.

The club of last season would stomp the Antropov, Mittienen, Well wood teams of before

[iso_55]

What pro teams have a 5 year plan? I've heard of 3 year plans but not 5 years. Teams would be playing to empty buildings if they had 5 years of that. Only in Canada can ownership & management sell that kind of malarkey. Look at Edmonton. haven't made the playoff since 2006. Calgary, seven years without a playoff berth.... Yet both teams are drawing 17-19,000 every game. In Winnipeg, 15,004 at every game. Try that in Chicago, maybe 11,000 a game. Boston maybe a bit more but that'd be it. Carolina would be a sea of empty seats. Management of NHL teams in the US knows that so they seem to be able to build winners faster as ownership puts the heat on than the course Winnipeg is on. 

Unlike 17, who believes most free agent players would never play in Winnipeg, I believe a lot would for the right price. Chevy needs to be more aggressive signing UFA's & with trades. I think he can speed the process up by a year, maybe more if he did. From what I saw of the Jets last season, they don't look that far away from being a playoff team. They need some more quality pieces & some depth. They are a big, fast skating team. As far a cities go, I can't see Calgary, Edmonton or Buffalo as destinations of choice ahead of us as those teams have even less to work with than the Jets do. We are closer to being a Stanley Cup playoff team than those other 3. 

[Floyd]

There is actually no debate - this is a four year plan.  Chevy and Maurice's contract expire at the same time.  Plus look at how Chevy is structuring contracts... if he fails, the next guy will be pretty free to try something else...  I like him.

 

Sounds shocking but I believe the goal is to make a deep playoff run or win the cup in 2016 or 17.

[iso_55]

There is actually no debate - this is a four year plan.  Chevy and Maurice's contract expire at the same time.  Plus look at how Chevy is structuring contracts... if he fails, the next guy will be pretty free to try something else...  I like him.

 

Sounds shocking but I believe the goal is to make a deep playoff run or win the cup in 2016 or 17.

In essence a seven year plan in total then as Chevy was telling us the same thing he is now when the Jets came to town....