Chevy

[Mr Dee]

You simply cannot compare the Jets to the teams that are already are where we want to be,…Chicago or Boston. Those teams are at a place where then can add pieces and make those trades. Movable pieces in well oiled machines.

The point is, the Jets simply cannot make those moves without some sort of long range plan. The "future-well-built-team" concept still has to be kept in mind.

Does Mark Chipman strike you as the kind of owner that throws money around drew-nilly to make foolish additions?

He waited patiently to put his bring-back-the-NHL-to-Winnipeg plan, so he can be patient in building this thing right.

Is Cheveldayoff the right guy? Who knows?

As long as they don't make any Gillis kind of moves, they will Lego this team into a contender.

It's a tough gig.

 

And to think Chicago or Boston wouldn't fill their buildings, think again.

[Floyd]

 

There is actually no debate - this is a four year plan.  Chevy and Maurice's contract expire at the same time.  Plus look at how Chevy is structuring contracts... if he fails, the next guy will be pretty free to try something else...  I like him.

 

Sounds shocking but I believe the goal is to make a deep playoff run or win the cup in 2016 or 17.

In essence a seven year plan in total then as Chevy was telling us the same thing he is now when the Jets came to town.... 

 

 

Huh.  I guess Nate was right.

[Floyd]

I would still say that years 1-3 were figuring things out/keep cap flexibility and now we are actually 'on plan' though...

[Mr Dee]

 

 

There is actually no debate - this is a four year plan.  Chevy and Maurice's contract expire at the same time.  Plus look at how Chevy is structuring contracts... if he fails, the next guy will be pretty free to try something else...  I like him.

 

Sounds shocking but I believe the goal is to make a deep playoff run or win the cup in 2016 or 17.

In essence a seven year plan in total then as Chevy was telling us the same thing he is now when the Jets came to town.... 

 

 

Huh.  I guess Nate was right.

 

If by right, you mean, right-wing, then I guess so.

[iso_55]

Dee, when the Blackhawks were struggling just a few years ago they were drawing 12,000 to their building. Chicago had lost interest in the team. Bill Wirtz had ground that team into the ice. When Wirtz died his son took over & changed a lot of things in the way the team was run. It was documented a lot at the time.... They were losing $$ huge.

[Mr Dee]

Yes, you're right, they did dip under the 15,000 mark in attendance.

But you can go back to 1983-84, (so thirty years) and they dipped to less than 15,000 only 5 times.

I'd say that is pretty darned good.

And you're also right about Bill Wirtz -- he was a doozy.

(*You could say that Bill Wirtz was responsible for the lag in attendance with his treatment of stars and his refusal to allow televised games of the Blackhawks' home games.)

He was tight with his money.

[Nasty Nate]

What pro teams have a 5 year plan? I've heard of 3 year plans but not 5 years. Teams would be playing to empty buildings if they had 5 years of that. Only in Canada can ownership & management sell that kind of malarkey. Look at Edmonton. haven't made the playoff since 2006. Calgary, seven years without a playoff berth.... Yet both teams are drawing 17-19,000 every game. In Winnipeg, 15,004 at every game. Try that in Chicago, maybe 11,000 a game. Boston maybe a bit more but that'd be it. Carolina would be a sea of empty seats. Management of NHL teams in the US knows that so they seem to be able to build winners faster as ownership puts the heat on than the course Winnipeg is on. 

Unlike 17, who believes most free agent players would never play in Winnipeg, I believe a lot would for the right price. Chevy needs to be more aggressive signing UFA's & with trades. I think he can speed the process up by a year, maybe more if he did. From what I saw of the Jets last season, they don't look that far away from being a playoff team. They need some more quality pieces & some depth. They are a big, fast skating team. As far a cities go, I can't see Calgary, Edmonton or Buffalo as destinations of choice ahead of us as those teams have even less to work with than the Jets do. We are closer to being a Stanley Cup playoff team than those other 3. 

Management in places like Calgary, Edmonton, Winnipeg and Toronto are just selling hope, thats all. Toronto will never go below capacity until there's 3 NHL teams in proximity. (ie. which is never). Edmonton has a turkey-head owner, Calgary has stable ownership but now a sickboy like Brian Burke leading the charge. Winnipeg's strength is patience. Its also their greatest weakness - but like Toronto most fans just want NHL hockey. And thats exactly what a Jets season ticket gives you - the right to attend 42 NHL home games. Nothing more.  Winnipeg fans are just happy to have pro hockey and football. They'll gripe a bit at the coffee shop but in the end Chipman has his way with them. And despite some absolutely atrocious management, coaching and player combos for the Bombers, fans still support them with 85 to 90% capacity over the last 10 to 12 years.

[iso_55]

I'd hope we as fans aren't just sheep Nate as you seem to suggest. That we have higher expectations for this team than just being satisfied to be part of the best pro hockey league  in the world. I just think a 4, 5 6 or 7 year plan is unacceptable. There's little or no expectation for the GM to build a winner as the team is a constant state of rebuilding. No pressure on ownership & management to improve as you can have a lot of excuses at their disposal. I can accept a 3 year plan but not longer. 

[Nasty Nate]

I'd hope we as fans aren't just sheep Nate as you seem to suggest. That we have higher expectations for this team than just being satisfied to be part of the best pro hockey league  in the world. I just think a 4, 5 6 or 7 year plan is unacceptable. There's little or no expectation for the GM to build a winner as the team is a constant state of rebuilding. No pressure on ownership & management to improve as you can have a lot of excuses at their disposal. I can accept a 3 year plan but not longer. 

As your old buddy Baron Von Raschke used to say Al - "You'll accept whatever plan we tell you to accept!"

 

Or was that Siegfried from GET SMART?

[The Unknown Poster]

Five Year Plan is a media invention.  The Jets have never said that.  They want to win.  Reality being what it is, building a team for the long haul takes time.  Five years is a reasonable time to take a bad team and build it into a playoff team.  I think thats why it gets bandied about, and five years is a reasonable time for a GM to produce or else.  Its a reasonable time to be patient.  it takes time to draft an 18 year old and have him producing at a high level.  We drafted Scheif in Year One and arguably he will be our number one centre in Year Four.  So, the timeline makes sense.

 

Different markets have different expectations.  Edmonton seems to be on a ten year plan.  Buffalo was on a One Year Plan a few years ago and I bet that fan base wiishes they had a Five Year Plan back then.  In Vancouver, there is no appetite for a development plan at all in my opinion.  Nor should there be really.  They need to re-load, not re-build.  Unless Linden wants to completely change the team and trades the Sedins.

[Nasty Nate]

Five Year Plan is a media invention.  The Jets have never said that.  They want to win.  Reality being what it is, building a team for the long haul takes time.  Five years is a reasonable time to take a bad team and build it into a playoff team.  I think thats why it gets bandied about, and five years is a reasonable time for a GM to produce or else.  Its a reasonable time to be patient.  it takes time to draft an 18 year old and have him producing at a high level.  We drafted Scheif in Year One and arguably he will be our number one centre in Year Four.  So, the timeline makes sense.

 

Different markets have different expectations.  Edmonton seems to be on a ten year plan.  Buffalo was on a One Year Plan a few years ago and I bet that fan base wiishes they had a Five Year Plan back then.  In Vancouver, there is no appetite for a development plan at all in my opinion.  Nor should there be really.  They need to re-load, not re-build.  Unless Linden wants to completely change the team and trades the Sedins.

I agree Jets mgmt. have never stated a specific time-line to get into playoff contention. But they really go on the beg when it comes to preaching patience and "building a team the right way" which is the way current mgmt. wants to build. The only good thing about the Jets is stable ownership and a rabid fan base, fuelled by ticket shortages.

The other relatively good thing is most of their roster is 20 to 29 yrs old - one of the youngest teams in the NHL.

Give that team a strong 3rd line and above average NHL goal-tending and I think they could go right down to the wire next year for the 8th seed.

After that, all bets are off cuz the Jets won't get more than the obligatory two home playoff dates before getting hammered from the playoff hunt.

[The Unknown Poster]

They are preaching the right message though.  Patience is key.  Anything can happen in the NHL and a lot of young teams need that experience of the Playoffs (and being ousted) to fully understand what its all about.  If the Jets can add key veterans at the right time, depending on who they meet, you never know.  They might be able to push a first series to 6 or 7 games.

[17to85]

I'd hope we as fans aren't just sheep Nate as you seem to suggest. That we have higher expectations for this team than just being satisfied to be part of the best pro hockey league  in the world. I just think a 4, 5 6 or 7 year plan is unacceptable. There's little or no expectation for the GM to build a winner as the team is a constant state of rebuilding. No pressure on ownership & management to improve as you can have a lot of excuses at their disposal. I can accept a 3 year plan but not longer. 

do you know why 5 years is the usual timeline? Because that's how long it takes defense prospects to usually be able to contribute. It gives draft picks 2 years to finish their junior careers then 2 years in the AHL and then contributing in the NHL by the 5th and 6th years. These are 18 year old kids they draft don't forget. 5 years is a very realistic time frame to build from. If you don't have a deep system you can't make a lot of trades, if you aren't a free agent destination you can't look for immediate help there so you have to draft your stars and let them develop and that takes time there is just no way around it. 

[iso_55]

That 5 year plan in Edmonton sure is looking good, isn't it??? Going on a decade. I just don't want us to be in the same situation like the Oilers.

[Rich]

Let look at a couple of the currently successful teams and recent stanley cup winners in the NHL:

 

Chicago Blackhawks (the organization Chevy really likes to model himself after):

 

Didn't qualify for the playoffs from from 02/03 to 07/08 before finally making the playoffs in 08/09 and being there ever since.

 

Boston Bruins:

 

Didn't make the playoffs from 04/05 to 06/07 before finally making the playoffs and being there every since in 07/08

 

Pittsburgh Penguins:

 

Missed the playoffs from 01/02 to 05/06 before finally making the playoffs and being there ever since

 

St Louis Blues:

 

Made the playoffs only once between 05/06 to 10/11. And have made the playoffs ever since.

 

LA Kings:

 

Missed the playoffs from 02/03 to 08/09 and have made the playoffs ever since

 

The Jets were an absolute mess of a franchise when they came to Winnipeg.  There was no prospects, everything had been traded away to try and simply get into the playoffs.  Most sports are cyclical.   It doesn't matter if it was Chevy who was GM or anyone else, this franchise wasn't making the playoffs these passed 3 years.  There was nothing to trade that would have made us a contender to get into the playoffs.  

 

The 3 - 5 year building plan is not a myth, is not a conspiracy theory to placate fans.  It is reality.  There are very few teams that can continuously make the playoffs while they reload (hello Detroit).  What the difficult part is, is that if you have chosen unwisely in who is leading you, you extend that period out.  We won't know if the choice on Chevy was a wise one of not for another couple of years.   However for now, jury is still out.   

 

I do however believe that this team is better today then what we inherited from Atlanta.

[iso_55]

It is better, I agree.

[Nasty Nate]

Chipman and Chevlydayoff have slowed the rot the Atlanta franchise had. They would have gone out of business if the Jets hadn't purchased the franchise!

[17to85]

That 5 year plan in Edmonton sure is looking good, isn't it??? Going on a decade. I just don't want us to be in the same situation like the Oilers.

The Oilers problem is that they weren't rebuilding for a decade. They only started rebuilding the year they drafted Taylor Hall. They were still selling the farm for magic beans and chasing the big free agents trying to recapture that 2006 magic. Since they drafted Taylor Hall they have been building through the draft and their drafting actually looks good, Hall-RNH-Eberle is a top line that even though they're young can play against the other top lines in the league and hold their own. Tambellini was a complete failure at adding quality NHL depth behind them though so they are on their own. Interestingly enough though, guys like Marincin and Klefbom and Nurse are poised to break into their defense (be 5 years after drafting Marincin next season) so that right there will make the overall team stronger. The key in Edmonton is still patience. They need to add a few key positions to the team but they've essentially done the whole thing through the draft without starting with anything in the system of a high volume of draft picks. It takes time to draft and develop defencemen and depth forwards. Right now if you go look at the Oilers system the NHL team has young skilled forwards and crappy veterans but the farm team is filled with defense prospects and forwards who project into bigger bottom 6 type players. The guys who are ready to play in the bigs first are in the NHL and the rest are still coming along. 

 

The Jets situation is a little different, they had some good pieces already in the system they could start with. Having a Bogosian and Enstrom as imperfect as they are is helpful, having Kane in the system and getting Wheeler were good starting pieces. Now it's just waiting for guys like Schiefele and Trouba to be ready for bigger roles and the rest should fall into place. They've been drafting well since they came to Winnipeg just need to wait for the prospects to be ready. 

[The Unknown Poster]

It would be very helpful to Edmonton if they had drafted some D prospects rather than hanging their hats on the flashy forward every year.  Sort of bit them in the behind with Nail.

 

I think the only reason we didnt relocate the Yotes here was because of the disaster that was the Thrashers.  The NHL was *this close* to moving PHX here but needed to hedge their bets because ownership in Atlanta basically said "find us a buyer or we walk away and lock the doors".

[17to85]

It would be very helpful to Edmonton if they had drafted some D prospects rather than hanging their hats on the flashy forward every year.  Sort of bit them in the behind with Nail.

Nonsense. The highest rated defensemen in the Hall draft year was Gudbranson who is nothing special, the highest rated defensemen in the RNH draft year was Adam Larsson who played in the AHL last year. Yakupov vs. Murray is a more interesting debate however Yakupov was the consensus top player for everyone, and let's not forget that in his rookie year Yakupov led the Oilers in goal scoring and was tied for the league rookie lead in scoring but led rookies in goals. Just because Dallas Eakins is a moron who thought he was dealing with a lazy Russian and torpedoed his confidence doesn't make Yakupov a bad pick. That kid is going to score a lot of goals in his career. I just hope it's actually in Edmonton and he isn't driven away by anti-Russian sentiments. 

 

It's not like the Oilers ignored defense either, they got Marincin in the 2nd round the year they took Hall, they took Klefbom in the first round the year they took Nugent-Hopkins, they got Nurse last year, they signed free agent Schultz, they took Musil in the 2nd round the year they drafted RNH. They have drafted a lot of defensemen, in fact defense prospects is the deepest part of the system, but like I said, you're looking at 5 years before defensemen are ready to play in the NHL usually. 

[The Unknown Poster]

God forbid they make a trade to help out D.

[17to85]

God forbid they make a trade to help out D.

yeah but trade who? and for who? You think teams were lining up to give quality defencemen for Shawn Horcoff and Ales Hemsky? That's the Oilers problem, they allowed the depth to get so poor that they couldn't make a trade to fill one hole without opening up another giant hole. 

[The Unknown Poster]

No.  i would have packed one of my young forwards or top draft pick for a bonafide top D man.  The jets, in two drafts managed to get a top line centre and a top pairing D man that plays 25 minutes.  I think Edmonton got caught up in this idea they could re-build the 80's with these offensive powerhouses and that a mediocre D would be okay if you were scoring 6 goals a game. 

[Mike]

What the Jets managed to acquire in two drafts is not normal.

[Goalie]

Jets have had some pretty outstanding drafts the last 3 season really, Outside of Lukas Sutter, everyone else seems to be either having solid junior seasons (or had) or are now playing in St Johns. Pretty spectacular when you look at what the jets had prior to the 2011  draft and you look now. Night and Day. Top 15, could argue top 10 team in terms of prospects.

 

Trouba,Scheif have shown they belong. No doubt once given the chance, guys like Lowry and Lipon will at worst become solid bottom 6 players.

 

Morrissey has high potential to be a top pairing d man, and Brendon Kichton has lit up the AHL his first year too.

 

Not normal indeed. 

 

But, i'm gonna have to give some credit to the Thrashers for already having a solid d man like Enstrom, A good bottom pairing d man and heart and soul in Mark Stuart and a guy who still hasn't reached his peak, Shea Weber didn't come in to his own until much later in his career (not saying he's comparable to weber tho) but at worst a top 4 D man in Bogo.

 

Edmonton? LOL they probably did well taking Eberle when they got him, late 1st rd pick, They did good with RNH, probably should have spent a year or 2 bulking up tho, Did good with Taylor Hall. But, i think they probably should have taken D man Ryan Murray (sure right now he might not have made a huge difference to the Oilers) but... in the long term, I think Murray would have been a better pick instead of Yakupov, Not saying YAK isn't a good player, he is and very well could be very good one day, but... in terms of what the oilers had and needed, Had a bunch of skilled smaller forwards, Needed a Dman, not another skilled smaller forward. 

 

If i'm edmonton, I look at moving one of my smaller skilled forwards (Yak or Eberle ) to get me a Legit top 4 d man. Buff to Edm straight up for Eberle might work for me but... it's not going to happen. Eberle here means Frolik can be bumped down to the third line. Not saying he didn't have a good year but... a 3rd line consisting of ??, Burmi/O'dell/Jokinen,Frolik is pretty decent. Say what you will but that would give us a very good forward group and eberle fits in terms of how old he is also. Won't happen but is a trade that does help both teams, If buff wants to be a dman that is.