Chevy

[17to85]

No.  i would have packed one of my young forwards or top draft pick for a bonafide top D man.  The jets, in two drafts managed to get a top line centre and a top pairing D man that plays 25 minutes.  I think Edmonton got caught up in this idea they could re-build the 80's with these offensive powerhouses and that a mediocre D would be okay if you were scoring 6 goals a game. 

I notice you're not naming a top d-man that was available for that price, and no guys like Buff don't count as top d-men. Hell it seems like the most likely guy the Oilers could have got was Cobourn, and that's not exactly a legit top guy either but the flyers didn't want to give him up for a reasonable price either. Something else to consider with Edmonton as well is that they don't really have a lot of depth at forward either so if they trade one of those guys they just make another hole. People like to only look at the NHL team when they look at the Oilers and never look at just how terrible their system was when it all fell apart on them. The problem with the Oilers was the asset management of Tambellini. Turning for example Joni Pitkanen into Eric Cole into Patrick O'Sullivan into Jim Vandermeer into nothing. Or turning Vishnovsky into Whitney into nothing. Or holding onto Hemsky too long that they couldn't get a good return for him. 

 

One of the interesting things to see is how in his first year on the job as GM Craig Mctavish basically purged everyone Tambellini had brought in as a free agent or trade.

 

It's easy to say "oh trade someone for a top defenceman" not so easy to find a team willing to move one of those guys for less than a monstrous overpayment. 

[The Unknown Poster]

The talent the Oilers have could have got them a D man.  I dont have time to look into who was available.  But certainly Buff was a valuable puck moving D man at the time.  Bogo is someone the Oilers could have been interested in.  Enstrom would have been the Oilers best D man if they had made a trade.  And the Jets needed help up front.  Im not sure the Jets/Oilers would do business but there was talent to be had.  I believe the Pens have a couple of young D men they were willing to part with also.

[iso_55]

The Oilers have some talented forwards who could have been packaged in a trade for a D man. They're perpetually spinning their wheels as a team. Not going anywhere. They finished lower in the standings in the Flames. The Flames?? Nurse may become a very good defenseman but they needed to shore up their team on the back end from goal out nit waiting for an 18 year old to develop. As far as the Jets go, it's obvious now we need to upgrade our goaltending position. With a great goaltender I believe we are a playoff team. A first round team but that's it.

[17to85]

The talent the Oilers have could have got them a D man.  I dont have time to look into who was available.  But certainly Buff was a valuable puck moving D man at the time.  Bogo is someone the Oilers could have been interested in.  Enstrom would have been the Oilers best D man if they had made a trade.  And the Jets needed help up front.  Im not sure the Jets/Oilers would do business but there was talent to be had.  I believe the Pens have a couple of young D men they were willing to part with also.

Yeah Buff is so good at D they moved him to forward, come on. Young defencemen isn't what the Oilers needed either, they have plenty of those of their own. They need quality veteran players and the cost of doing business for those kinds of players is very high because every team wants more quality veteran defencemen. Like I said, it's easy to say "should have traded players for a defenceman" much harder to actually come up with a deal that makes sense for both teams. 

[17to85]

The Oilers have some talented forwards who could have been packaged in a trade for a D man. They're perpetually spinning their wheels as a team. Not going anywhere. They finished lower in the standings in the Flames. The Flames?? Nurse may become a very good defenseman but they needed to shore up their team on the back end from goal out nit waiting for an 18 year old to develop. As far as the Jets go, it's obvious now we need to upgrade our goaltending position. With a great goaltender I believe we are a playoff team. A first round team but that's it.

Again you missed the part where their defense is already going to be shored up through the system right? They could use a veteran to play for a couple years on the top pair to buy them some time for Nurse to round himself out, he's a pretty raw prospect right now. I'd love to see them add someone like Markov but no clue how feasible that is. 

 

This whole idea that the Oilers need any D available is so sickening, they need some quality forward depth a lot more than they need defensive depth. RIght now they're a team that lives and dies based on how far Taylor Hall can drag them in a game. 

[iso_55]

You're the only one who thinks that from all the analysts I've heard & read. They all decry how the Oilers have ignored back end issues yet shore up the forwards. They need to score 5 goals a game to win. That may have been fine in 1981 but not in today's NHL.

[17to85]

You're the only one who thinks that from all the analysts I've heard & read. They all decry how the Oilers have ignored back end issues yet shore up the forwards. They need to score 5 goals a game to win. That may have been fine in 1981 but not in today's NHL.

And that is why I'm so sick of hearing about it, because it's all bullshit. It's a lack of effort from the national media actually looking at the team. They see Hall and Eberle and RNH and Yakupov and just assume that's all they have. The deepest part of their organization is actually defense prospects. They have crap forward depth and their centre depth is an embarassment, but in a couple years they're going to have too many defencemen needing spots in the NHL and will have to move some of them. 

[iso_55]

So, in other words what they say is bullshit but yours isn't? Got it.

[17to85]

It's a numbers game. They have a lot of defencemen kicking around with definite NHL upside. Marincin, Klefbom and Maybe Nurse (because he was really good in preseason last year) could all force their way into the NHL in the next year or two, they already have Petry and Schultz as younger guys (Petry being a veteran when he's only got a couple years of NHL play under his belt as well) Ference is there for multiple years... That's not even taking into account players like Musil or Simpson and a couple others who have been having success in the development system. If these guys start to force their way in that's more guys than you have room for. 

 

Meanwhile who are the forwards knocking on the door... Lander who can score tons in the AHL but can't get it to translate to the NHL, Pitlick who has limited offence but looks like he might be able to play a bottom 6 game... except he's hurt all the time. Arcobello an undersized centre... who else? few guys who might turn into bottom 6 guys eventually but no guarantees. 

 

Forwards are a much bigger cause for concern as an OIler fan than the defense. Go look at how many goals that team actually scored, look at how many of them Taylor Hall factored in on. If Taylor Hall doesn't have a big night that team can't score goals. It's not about keeping the puck out of their net, it's about not being able to play offence. 

[sweep the leg]

 

The deepest part of their organization is actually defense prospects. They have crap forward depth and their centre depth is an embarassment, but in a couple years they're going to have too many defencemen needing spots in the NHL and will have to move some of them. 

 

IMO a prospect doesn't mean depth. Depth to me is having players around who can fill in if you're in a pinch. The Jets, for example, have a lot of depth on D, with eight or nine guys who can play in the NHL. The Oilers don't have six guys who are good enough to play D in the NHL.

 

If I was the Oilers GM, I'd bring in a guy like Matt Greene . He's big, tough, good in his own end, & he probably won't cost a lot of money. I think he'd help those young dmen a lot. Tom Gilbert is another UFA they should look at. Bringing them back would fix a couple of their previous mistakes when they let those guys go.

[The Unknown Poster]

 

The talent the Oilers have could have got them a D man.  I dont have time to look into who was available.  But certainly Buff was a valuable puck moving D man at the time.  Bogo is someone the Oilers could have been interested in.  Enstrom would have been the Oilers best D man if they had made a trade.  And the Jets needed help up front.  Im not sure the Jets/Oilers would do business but there was talent to be had.  I believe the Pens have a couple of young D men they were willing to part with also.

Yeah Buff is so good at D they moved him to forward, come on. Young defencemen isn't what the Oilers needed either, they have plenty of those of their own. They need quality veteran players and the cost of doing business for those kinds of players is very high because every team wants more quality veteran defencemen. Like I said, it's easy to say "should have traded players for a defenceman" much harder to actually come up with a deal that makes sense for both teams. 

 

You're right.  Trouba would certainly not have befitted the Oilers.  If they Oilers are 'too young' and need veterans, thats no ones fault but their own.  Its not like they were surprised to have so many young players on their team.  Enstrom isnt a "young" d-man and would instantly have been Edmonton's best.  Bogo is young and would also be the Oiler's best D man.  Buff would have been a lot more valuable to Edmonton as a D than he was to us.  And yes I am aware he was moved to forward, which is why I would have tried to soak Edmonton for him 1.5 years ago.

[17to85]

 

 

The deepest part of their organization is actually defense prospects. They have crap forward depth and their centre depth is an embarassment, but in a couple years they're going to have too many defencemen needing spots in the NHL and will have to move some of them. 

 

IMO a prospect doesn't mean depth. Depth to me is having players around who can fill in if you're in a pinch. The Jets, for example, have a lot of depth on D, with eight or nine guys who can play in the NHL. The Oilers don't have six guys who are good enough to play D in the NHL.

 

If I was the Oilers GM, I'd bring in a guy like Matt Greene . He's big, tough, good in his own end, & he probably won't cost a lot of money. I think he'd help those young dmen a lot. Tom Gilbert is another UFA they should look at. Bringing them back would fix a couple of their previous mistakes when they let those guys go.

 

But they do have lots of guys who can play in the NHL, including some of those prospects. What they lacked was someone who could handle big responsibilities on the back end. Hell Marincin and Klefbom were arguably the most impressive defenders for Edmonton last year, they absolutely count as depth, but it's not just for right now you have to look at, when you're building a team you have to look at the future as well. When you have a lot of players on an upwards development curve who will be forcing their way into the lineup soon you don't want to be locked into a bunch of older players long term for big money and then be unable to move them out. They had to pay Ference a hell of a lot of money for significant term to get him there, what would they have to pay to get someone better than that?

 

Trading Gilbert was one of the stupidest things Tambellini did, especially for a worse player, that's part of the reason why he was fired. Gilbert wasn't perfect but he was a guy like Petry who could muddle his way through a top pairing without completely embarassing himself even if he was miscast in the role. And hell Matt Greene is a prime example of why you don't make knee jerk moves. Matt Greene and Stoll couple young players in areas the Oilers thought they had some depth at for Vishnovsky. Vishnovsky was really good for the Oilers but he didn't want to stay there so they traded him for Whitney who was good for a while but an injury case and his play fell off quickly and they got nothing for him. Meanwhile the team now would kill to have Greene and Stoll back. When you don't have great depth making trades can hurt you long term, that's exactly how the Oilers got into the problems they are in. Build your depth first then start making trades. The only place the Oilers really do have depth right now is among their D prospects. Tambellini mismanaged the veterans very badly, but he was fired for doing so, trading away the young players willy nilly isn't going to help the Oilers in the long term, better to stay the course with them and build around them. If they are keen to add a veteran defensemen through trade they should be trading some of their defence prospects for it not the forwards. Paajarvi for Perron last year was a good move because you are switching one player for another at the same position and you're not filling one hole to open another. Too many holes in that system (not just the roster, but the system) to be trading from one area to fill another. 

[17to85]

 

 

The talent the Oilers have could have got them a D man.  I dont have time to look into who was available.  But certainly Buff was a valuable puck moving D man at the time.  Bogo is someone the Oilers could have been interested in.  Enstrom would have been the Oilers best D man if they had made a trade.  And the Jets needed help up front.  Im not sure the Jets/Oilers would do business but there was talent to be had.  I believe the Pens have a couple of young D men they were willing to part with also.

Yeah Buff is so good at D they moved him to forward, come on. Young defencemen isn't what the Oilers needed either, they have plenty of those of their own. They need quality veteran players and the cost of doing business for those kinds of players is very high because every team wants more quality veteran defencemen. Like I said, it's easy to say "should have traded players for a defenceman" much harder to actually come up with a deal that makes sense for both teams. 

 

You're right.  Trouba would certainly not have befitted the Oilers.  If they Oilers are 'too young' and need veterans, thats no ones fault but their own.  Its not like they were surprised to have so many young players on their team.  Enstrom isnt a "young" d-man and would instantly have been Edmonton's best.  Bogo is young and would also be the Oiler's best D man.  Buff would have been a lot more valuable to Edmonton as a D than he was to us.  And yes I am aware he was moved to forward, which is why I would have tried to soak Edmonton for him 1.5 years ago.

 

was Trouba available for anything even remotely reasonable? The young D comment was in reference to the Pens having young guys they are willing to move. The young guys the pens are willing to move are prospects of the same level as what the Oilers already have. No the point here is that Buff is not the kind of D you make a big move for because he's got flaws as a defenseman and players with flaws are ones to take for cheap but don't give up assets for. With Enstrom and Bogosian again you have guys that teams would like, but not for a big price because they have flaws. You would have tried to soak Edmonton sure, but Edmonton was not looking to make a trade where they got soaked. That's what you're missing here. Losing a guy like Enstrom or Bogosian from the Jets really trashes their depth on D so they would have needed a big payment to do it, but Edmonton doesn't have a lot of depth to be moving it out. Let's throw out a hypothetical here, let's say they traded Eberle for Bogosian... how good is a team with Bogosian as their best defenseman? Now you've taken away Edmontons 2nd best point producer, who fills that role? Hemsky who had grown stagnant in Edmonton? Yakupov who is on the coaches **** list and struggled in every way last year? Ryan Jones who is barely a 4th liner in the NHL anymore? Luke Gazdic? Tyler Pitlick? 

[The Unknown Poster]

I think the Oilers have enough forward talent that could land a big time D.  But they dont want to trade any forwards.  So they have a really exciting team that sucks.

[17to85]

I think the Oilers have enough forward talent that could land a big time D.  But they dont want to trade any forwards.  So they have a really exciting team that sucks.

Name a big time D that could be had for Yakupov or Eberle or Gagner because those are the only ones they can really afford to trade. I'll wait because your list is going to suck. Like I said they don't need any and every defenseman out there, they have lots of guys who can play a top 4 role, they specifically need someone who can play effectively as the top defenceman on a team and those guys are hard to trade for. They'd be better off targetting an older free agent player to be honest. 

 

They aren't an exciting team, they used to live and die by the PP but Eakins came in and torpedoed that, otherwise it's Hall and who ever is on his line with no secondary scoring. Here's something Craig Mctavish said about the bottom 6 forwards on that team last year and it's still pretty true today "The best you can hope for with a lot of those guys is that they're a non factor in a game"