Final Scouting Bureau Rankings

[The Unknown Poster]

I dont have a problem with the Neufeld trade.  I think Walters explained it well by basically saying for the 2nd round selection we get a known commodity in Neufeld over a crapshoot at the draft (a draft Walters didnt feel was strong enough to provide someone that was better than Neufeld right now at that position).  Id like to think Neufeld will be coached up to be the best he can be this season so we shall see...

[gbill2004]

I wonder if Neufeld might be converted to a centre. 

[TBURGESS]

Smith is a Mack type of pick, like Pencer.  A guy who showed well in E Camp, but wasn't on anyones radar as a first rounder before that.  O'Shea wants a starter with our first round pick.  Trying to make Smith learn the Center spot and start in his rookie year when he hasn't played the center before is laughable.  Smith's a project.  I doubt he's a starter in year one, unless the team who picks him has no other choices.

[gbill2004]

Smith is a Mack type of pick, like Pencer. A guy who showed well in E Camp, but wasn't on anyones radar as a first rounder before that. O'Shea wants a starter with our first round pick. Trying to make Smith learn the Center spot and start in his rookie year when he hasn't played the center before is laughable. Smith's a project. I doubt he's a starter in year one, unless the team who picks him has no other choices.

He might be able to start as a DL in year one though.

[sweep the leg]

Smith is a Mack type of pick, like Pencer.  A guy who showed well in E Camp, but wasn't on anyones radar as a first rounder before that.  O'Shea wants a starter with our first round pick.  Trying to make Smith learn the Center spot and start in his rookie year when he hasn't played the center before is laughable.  Smith's a project.  I doubt he's a starter in year one, unless the team who picks him has no other choices.

Did somebody suggest Smith should start at centre this year?

[TBieber]

3 weeks ago quinn smith was a nobody nothing, not even ranked on the top 15 list, now he's #4 and everybody wants the guy? based on a strong e camp it appears, but how much does e camp actually mean? how much do the numbers actually mean? can you repeat those numbers? or is it a one off type day or camp of a lifetime where you just show up and dominate but then you go back to normal and dont.

 

Im curious how much these e camp numbers actually mean to the people in charge of actually making the picks.

 

As a fan, all i really know is... all year there have been guys who have been ranked in the top 5.. all rankings really, LDT,LAVERTU,FOUCAULT being 3...

 

and there was a guy who wasnt ranked at all really, but after the e camp he is ranked top 5. I dunno about guys like that to be honest, go with the sure thing like foucault or lavertu, smith could just be some testing freak... i dont know, havent seen him play... but like i said, as a fan all i know is what the rankings have been and i find it strange he wasnt really ranked until after the e camp. perhaps a red flag of sorts.

 

I just think we need oline help so badly that passing on either of lavertu or foucault  (got off the goosen train but still think he's an option)(he becomes probably a bigger one if lavertu and foucault get serious nfl interest), it would be silly. Oline needs help so bad, its vital to our success, put lavertu and foucault with wylie and you got yourself a couple young guys ready to go im sure, pencer too (he has potential still), perhaps wylie gets it out of him. Like the idea of us taking an oline and having wylie coach him up... Think long term, oline is whats needed for this club. Smith? I dunno, not a fan of the testing freaks, see it lots in sports, nhl,nfl,cfl even.. guys who have crazy e camp type things and then proceed to really not do much as a pro.

 

I guess regarding SMITH, is... based on his play on the field agasint competition, he wasnt ranked at all. Based on what he did at a weekend or so at an evaluation camp, he moves up to 4. I think thats a reach of a pick if there ever was one. Do you take a guy at 4 to groom to become a center just based on a weekend of work? Thats a tough one, excellent numbers but scouts didnt have him ranked at all all year really. Well im sure he was just not so high... at all. LDT Lavertu and Foucault were, if no NFL interest we have a shot at one of those 2 (LDT is nfl bound for sure) who have been ranked high all year. Be crazy to pass on one of them if they didnt get nfl interest.

 

Dylan Ainsworth and Anthony Coombs weren't ranked until after the CIS season either, and Ainsworth skipped have the list to #7 after the combine. The list means nothing at the end of the day. There are hundreds of players eligible and only 15 make it, and even less actually have consistency on the rankings.

 

As mentioned above by Mike, he was on the radar long before the combine by CFL teams.

 

Last year, Andy Mulumba and Brent Urban jumped onto the list after their seasons. Mulumba is obviously in the NFL, and Urban is expected to be selected in the mid rounds this year.

 

2012, Tyrone Crawford was unranked and jumped up after the season. He was selected 3rd round in the NFL. Jabar Westerman wasn't ranked until after the combine and he has been very good for the BC Lions while a guy like Tyson Pencer was ranked before the season, ended unranked, and still went 3rd overall.

 

It's all about opinion from those in charge of selecting these kids.

[bearpants]

My problem with Smith is he's a major project... especially on the O-line... he may be able to start on at DT from the beginning or in a rotation with Lucas and/or Thomas...  It seems like Lavertu is the only guy close to a "sure thing" in this draft....

 

another possibility being thrown around is taking Focault to play RT and converting Neufeld to C.... we seem to have a bunch of project o-linemen but none appear to be centres....

 

January - Greaves - Neufeld - Penser/Morley/Swiston - Focault ???

[Nasty Nate]

My problem with Smith is he's a major project... especially on the O-line... he may be able to start on at DT from the beginning or in a rotation with Lucas and/or Thomas...  It seems like Lavertu is the only guy close to a "sure thing" in this draft....

 

another possibility being thrown around is taking Focault to play RT and converting Neufeld to C.... we seem to have a bunch of project o-linemen but none appear to be centres....

 

January - Greaves - Neufeld - Penser/Morley/Swiston - Focault ???

January is a B- guy for an import, B if he was Canuck. Greaves is still learning - should be a B+ canuck but in current dismal system he's only a B, Morley is reallly bad (too slow), a C- canadian at best, Pencer & Swiston remain un-graded due to lack of action - if only one of them could be a solid B to B+ starter. Neufeld was seen as a B to B+ guy in waiting in Sask'n but injuries have riddled him. If he's all healed up and top shape lets hope he's better than C+, perhaps B to B+ starter. 

Biggest problem for O'Shea - we ain't got no A o-linemen; not even an A- guy.

[M.O.A.B.]

 

My problem with Smith is he's a major project... especially on the O-line... he may be able to start on at DT from the beginning or in a rotation with Lucas and/or Thomas...  It seems like Lavertu is the only guy close to a "sure thing" in this draft....

 

another possibility being thrown around is taking Focault to play RT and converting Neufeld to C.... we seem to have a bunch of project o-linemen but none appear to be centres....

 

January - Greaves - Neufeld - Penser/Morley/Swiston - Focault ???

January is a B- guy for an import, B if he was Canuck. Greaves is still learning - should be a B+ canuck but in current dismal system he's only a B, Morley is reallly bad (too slow), a C- canadian at best, Pencer & Swiston remain un-graded due to lack of action - if only one of them could be a solid B to B+ starter. Neufeld was seen as a B to B+ guy in waiting in Sask'n but injuries have riddled him. If he's all healed up and top shape lets hope he's better than C+, perhaps B to B+ starter. 

Biggest problem for O'Shea - we ain't got no A o-linemen; not even an A- guy.

 

 

how much of that because of coaching though ?

[Goalie]

Not that it really means much just  based on who has been all stars but january has been an all star on the oline for us for a few seasons hasnt he? saying he is a B- i think isnt really giving him much credit, i think he starts on most other teams olines. He's by far our best olineman too.

 

Pencer looked pretty good at tackle last season when he got a shot to play, just for some reason, they never went back to him. Last year was kind of a gong show tho.

 

Pencer still has high potential, think the problem with some of the guys is, people for some reason expect them to start or be an all star immediately, it doesnt work like that really in the cfl draft. Pencer was drafted what? 2 years ago now... isnt he where he should be development wise?

[Mike]

 

My problem with Smith is he's a major project... especially on the O-line... he may be able to start on at DT from the beginning or in a rotation with Lucas and/or Thomas...  It seems like Lavertu is the only guy close to a "sure thing" in this draft....

 

another possibility being thrown around is taking Focault to play RT and converting Neufeld to C.... we seem to have a bunch of project o-linemen but none appear to be centres....

 

January - Greaves - Neufeld - Penser/Morley/Swiston - Focault ???

January is a B- guy for an import, B if he was Canuck. Greaves is still learning - should be a B+ canuck but in current dismal system he's only a B, Morley is reallly bad (too slow), a C- canadian at best, Pencer & Swiston remain un-graded due to lack of action - if only one of them could be a solid B to B+ starter. Neufeld was seen as a B to B+ guy in waiting in Sask'n but injuries have riddled him. If he's all healed up and top shape lets hope he's better than C+, perhaps B to B+ starter. 

Biggest problem for O'Shea - we ain't got no A o-linemen; not even an A- guy.

 

 

I can't possibly understand someone being able to give out grades on offensive linemen they've never seen play. You can't expect anyone to believe you're able to form an accurate opinion on an offensive lineman from a television.

[JuranBoldenRules]

3 weeks ago quinn smith was a nobody nothing, not even ranked on the top 15 list, now he's #4 and everybody wants the guy? based on a strong e camp it appears, but how much does e camp actually mean? how much do the numbers actually mean? can you repeat those numbers? or is it a one off type day or camp of a lifetime where you just show up and dominate but then you go back to normal and dont.

 

Im curious how much these e camp numbers actually mean to the people in charge of actually making the picks.

 

As a fan, all i really know is... all year there have been guys who have been ranked in the top 5.. all rankings really, LDT,LAVERTU,FOUCAULT being 3...

 

and there was a guy who wasnt ranked at all really, but after the e camp he is ranked top 5. I dunno about guys like that to be honest, go with the sure thing like foucault or lavertu, smith could just be some testing freak... i dont know, havent seen him play... but like i said, as a fan all i know is what the rankings have been and i find it strange he wasnt really ranked until after the e camp. perhaps a red flag of sorts.

 

I just think we need oline help so badly that passing on either of lavertu or foucault  (got off the goosen train but still think he's an option)(he becomes probably a bigger one if lavertu and foucault get serious nfl interest), it would be silly. Oline needs help so bad, its vital to our success, put lavertu and foucault with wylie and you got yourself a couple young guys ready to go im sure, pencer too (he has potential still), perhaps wylie gets it out of him. Like the idea of us taking an oline and having wylie coach him up... Think long term, oline is whats needed for this club. Smith? I dunno, not a fan of the testing freaks, see it lots in sports, nhl,nfl,cfl even.. guys who have crazy e camp type things and then proceed to really not do much as a pro.

 

I guess regarding SMITH, is... based on his play on the field agasint competition, he wasnt ranked at all. Based on what he did at a weekend or so at an evaluation camp, he moves up to 4. I think thats a reach of a pick if there ever was one. Do you take a guy at 4 to groom to become a center just based on a weekend of work? Thats a tough one, excellent numbers but scouts didnt have him ranked at all all year really. Well im sure he was just not so high... at all. LDT Lavertu and Foucault were, if no NFL interest we have a shot at one of those 2 (LDT is nfl bound for sure) who have been ranked high all year. Be crazy to pass on one of them if they didnt get nfl interest.

 

The rankings are meaningless.  The CFL personnel guys don't get any solid film on the CIS prospects until the season is over, they start really scouting hard and prepping in the new year.  If you are going to rely on any of the CFL Scouting Bureau rankings, the final one is best.  Otherwise, 90% of what they are basing it on is eye test from the spotters booth if they have anyone scout games (even if they do they might see a guy once or twice, and they are usually looking specifically at 1-2 guys), and the East-West game/testing from the year previous.  The information on the NCAA guys is even more spotty before they really bear down and watch the film.  Chances are a lot of teams didn't really take a serious look (as they would a 1st round pick) at Smith's film until he dominated the combine.

 

You need to draft the best CFL players available, and you need to do that over years to build a solid NI base.  If the best CFL player at 2nd overall isn't a OL, I'd rather the Bombers take that guy than an OL who is a question mark and several years from being a good CFL player.  We have holes in the roster at pretty much every spot but receiver, and even there we seriously need depth. 

[TBieber]

If you want to use a comparison on Quinn Smith to get an idea of what you can expect, I would compare him to Jabar Westerman on the BC Lions. Westerman started five games in his rookie season, contributed 14 tackles, 4 sacks. Was also selected second overall.

 

I think you start with Anderson and Turner, and then Smith works his way in, and starts about 8-12 games. I was a big fan of Westerman in 2012, and I like Smith slightly more, just for the sheer fact that he can move that well for a guy over 300 pounds.

[The Unknown Poster]

Mike, what are predictions at this point for the Bombers in the draft as far as what you'd do, what you think they will do and what you think they might do if their guy isnt available?

[gbill2004]

If you want to use a comparison on Quinn Smith to get an idea of what you can expect, I would compare him to Jabar Westerman on the BC Lions. Westerman started five games in his rookie season, contributed 14 tackles, 4 sacks. Was also selected second overall.

 

I think you start with Anderson and Turner, and then Smith works his way in, and starts about 8-12 games. I was a big fan of Westerman in 2012, and I like Smith slightly more, just for the sheer fact that he can move that well for a guy over 300 pounds.

 

Remember Jason Vega is back with the Bombers this season too.  He'll be a mainstay on the DL as well...

[Mike]

 

If you want to use a comparison on Quinn Smith to get an idea of what you can expect, I would compare him to Jabar Westerman on the BC Lions. Westerman started five games in his rookie season, contributed 14 tackles, 4 sacks. Was also selected second overall.

 

I think you start with Anderson and Turner, and then Smith works his way in, and starts about 8-12 games. I was a big fan of Westerman in 2012, and I like Smith slightly more, just for the sheer fact that he can move that well for a guy over 300 pounds.

 

Remember Jason Vega is back with the Bombers this season too.  He'll be a mainstay on the DL as well...

 

 

Vega is an end.

[MOBomberFan]

Mike, what are predictions at this point for the Bombers in the draft as far as what you'd do, what you think they will do and what you think they might do if their guy isnt available?

Mike made an excellent blog post at http://www.morningbigblue.com/community/blog/7/entry-25-2014-cfl-mock-draft-version-20/ that should answer a few of your questions.

[Mike]

Mike, what are predictions at this point for the Bombers in the draft as far as what you'd do, what you think they will do and what you think they might do if their guy isnt available?

 

What I'd do ... pick Foucault

What I think they'll do ... pick Foucault or Smith

 

If Lavertu is available, pick him 100%

If neither Foucault or Lavertu are available, pick Smith

[James]

I'd skip Focault and Go with Smith. The guy is fast and Powerfull, he'll fit right in with what we do at DT... Just get him to lose 15 pounds and he'll be a golden NT for us.... Plus, he can switch to Guard in a pinch.

 

The more I look into Smith, the more I like him, If I were in Walters position, I'd even be tempted to go with Smith Over Lavertu.... However, Center is such a glaring need for us that you can't pass up on him no matter how good the other Players look.

[gbill2004]

Penton speculating Quinn Smith could go first overall to Ottawa:

The news earlier this week was that Concordia defensive tackle Quinn Smith had rocketed from out of nowhere to No. 4 on the CFL Scouting Bureau's spring ranking.

With each passing day, however, it looks like he might end up going even higher than that in next month's CFL draft. There is plenty of talk now that Smith, who was an absolute star at the combine in late March, could go first overall to the Ottawa RedBlacks.

Smith not only dominated the offensive linemen in the one-on-one drills at Toronto's Varsity Stadium on March 23, but he showed off his intelligence and character during the interview process, he doesn't have an injury history and he has also played on the offensive line.

And playing on the offensive line is what he could end up doing in the CFL, even though he fancies himself a defensive tackle. Some in the CFL think Smith has remarkably quick feet and will be a perennial all-star guard on the offensive line. One GM said this week he would take Smith if he had the first overall pick.

That's quite the praise for someone who wasn't even on the list when the CFL Scouting Bureau released its winter ranking.

"I had a really good combine," Smith said this week on a CFL-sponsored conference call. "I trained really hard for it. Obviously I'm pretty sure every guy who was at the combine feels that they should be among the top 15 prospects. That's why we're all doing it.

"Obviously I felt I should've been on the first two, but I'm very happy that my hard work paid off."

Smith going first overall will become more likely if Montreal Carabins offensive lineman David Foucault, who is No. 2 on the scouting bureau's list, ends up signing with an NFL team. Foucault was one of two Canadians who took part in the NFL super regional combine in Detroit earlier this month, and the 6-foot-7, 300-pound tackle was pleased with his performance despite injuring the arch of one of his feet during the 40-yard dash.

Only three of the 33 offensive linemen in attendance at the super regional were asked to stick around and talk to teams afterwards and Foucault was one of them. That has him putting the CFL on the back burner for now.

"I want to take my chance to go to the NFL," Foucault said.

NFL teams will sign undrafted free agents on May 10-11, and the CFL draft is slated for May 13, so plenty will be up in the air until then.

[Mike]

Smith at 1 Lavertu at 2 would be music to my ears

[Nasty Nate]

Our d-line promises to be mediocre to above average.

 

Our o-line promises to be horrid to mediocre.

 

Thus, Lavertu is a no-brainer if he`s available.

 

Remember, Smith rolled guys at the drills but CFL d-line work isn`t a drill. Often you`re inserted into a system and can`t bull-rush every play. Often, you can defeat your primary blocking opponent but a second guy picks you up and nullifies your rush. 

 

Neufeld better be a C+ to B starter cuz we don`t have a 2nd round pick and if we did we`d be picking 2nd and 12th overall.

 

Could take a risk Lavertu doesn`t catch on and do a Joe-pick on him at 12....

[Mike]

Our d-line promises to be mediocre to above average.

 

Our o-line promises to be horrid to mediocre.

 

Thus, Lavertu is a no-brainer if he`s available.

 

Remember, Smith rolled guys at the drills but CFL d-line work isn`t a drill. Often you`re inserted into a system and can`t bull-rush every play. Often, you can defeat your primary blocking opponent but a second guy picks you up and nullifies your rush. 

 

Neufeld better be a C+ to B starter cuz we don`t have a 2nd round pick and if we did we`d be picking 2nd and 12th overall.

 

Could take a risk Lavertu doesn`t catch on and do a Joe-pick on him at 12....

 

What?

[Nasty Nate]

 

Our d-line promises to be mediocre to above average.

 

Our o-line promises to be horrid to mediocre.

 

Thus, Lavertu is a no-brainer if he`s available.

 

Remember, Smith rolled guys at the drills but CFL d-line work isn`t a drill. Often you`re inserted into a system and can`t bull-rush every play. Often, you can defeat your primary blocking opponent but a second guy picks you up and nullifies your rush. 

 

Neufeld better be a C+ to B starter cuz we don`t have a 2nd round pick and if we did we`d be picking 2nd and 12th overall.

 

Could take a risk Lavertu doesn`t catch on and do a Joe-pick on him at 12....

 

What?

 

In the NFL....I think the bombers have learned their lesson about selecting NFL bound guys with their first picks.

 

Of course, we've also drafted a few dogs with first round picks, too - going off the board to avoid NFL-destined guys.

[Mike]

 

 

Our d-line promises to be mediocre to above average.

 

Our o-line promises to be horrid to mediocre.

 

Thus, Lavertu is a no-brainer if he`s available.

 

Remember, Smith rolled guys at the drills but CFL d-line work isn`t a drill. Often you`re inserted into a system and can`t bull-rush every play. Often, you can defeat your primary blocking opponent but a second guy picks you up and nullifies your rush. 

 

Neufeld better be a C+ to B starter cuz we don`t have a 2nd round pick and if we did we`d be picking 2nd and 12th overall.

 

Could take a risk Lavertu doesn`t catch on and do a Joe-pick on him at 12....

 

What?

 

In the NFL....I think the bombers have learned their lesson about selecting NFL bound guys with their first picks.

 

Of course, we've also drafted a few dogs with first round picks, too - going off the board to avoid NFL-destined guys.

 

 

What does that have to do with Lavertu though ... he's one of the top guys who has had no NFL interest as of yet.