MH370

[The Unknown Poster]

7 hours ago, Goalie said:

How much money is to much tho. It's unfortunate but they won't find it anytime soon if ever. 

They kept looking for the air France jet and it paid off. No amount is too much.  Not just for the families but in solving a mystery that could impact other potential lives. 

[The Unknown Poster]

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/28/asia/mh370-pilot-flight-simulator/index.html

The home flight simulator belonging to the MH370 pilot had a route plotted into it which ended in the Indian Ocean, officials have confirmed.

"The MH370 captain's flight simulator showed someone had plotted a course to the southern Indian Ocean," Joint Agency Coordination Center (JACC) spokesman Scott Mashford confirmed to CNN in an email. He did not elaborate on who may have plotted the route.

The confirmation corroborates earlier reports that the device had programmed in it a route similar to the one which investigators believe the doomed flight took on its final voyage.

[FrostyWinnipeg]

1 hour ago, The Unknown Poster said:

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/28/asia/mh370-pilot-flight-simulator/index.html

The home flight simulator belonging to the MH370 pilot had a route plotted into it which ended in the Indian Ocean, officials have confirmed.

"The MH370 captain's flight simulator showed someone had plotted a course to the southern Indian Ocean," Joint Agency Coordination Center (JACC) spokesman Scott Mashford confirmed to CNN in an email. He did not elaborate on who may have plotted the route.

The confirmation corroborates earlier reports that the device had programmed in it a route similar to the one which investigators believe the doomed flight took on its final voyage.

So how does he knock everyone out? Airport 77 like?

[The Unknown Poster]

13 minutes ago, FrostyWinnipeg said:

So how does he knock everyone out? Airport 77 like?

There is a depressurization button in the cockpit.  He can actually turn off the oxygen and everyone would slowly pass out.

[The Unknown Poster]

http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/02/asia/mh370-crash-landing-report/index.html

(CNN)Missing plane Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 was plunging toward the sea with no one in control when it made its last satellite communication, new analysis reveals.

"The really important news in this report is that the flap found in Tanzania was stowed," he said, referring to the flaperon that washed up off the East African country in June.

 

"Therefore there was no way this airplane was being flown by anyone. It was out of control, ran out of fuel and spiraled into the sea at high speed."

A Malaysian government document obtained by New York magazine in July cited a FBI forensic examination that showed the pilot of MH370 conducted a flight simulation on his home computer that closely matched the suspected route of the missing Boeing 777.

[FrostyWinnipeg]

http://www.popularmechanics.com/flight/airlines/news/a24807/the-search-for-mh370-is-not-over/

[The Unknown Poster]

 

[FrostyWinnipeg]

1 hour ago, The Unknown Poster said:

 

I'm sure Tighar would do it.

[The Unknown Poster]

Ummm

The interesting takeaway from this is experts now believe the plane crashed within a 25,000 square KM area north of the search site.  They searched 120,000 square KM.  Hopefully the governments will get on board with conducting this smaller search asap.

Edited April 21, 2017 by The Unknown Poster

[FrostyWinnipeg]

I dunno bout this the pings should have led them to roughly the spot where it went down.

Edited April 21, 2017 by FrostyWinnipeg

[The Unknown Poster]

29 minutes ago, FrostyWinnipeg said:

I dunno bout this the pings should have led them to roughly the spot where it went down.

What pings?  From the black boxes?  They searched for the pings immediately but the black boxes dont have the power to send pings through thousands of feet of water if you're not in the basic location of the crash.  The issue is, they dont know exactly where the plane went down because the transponder was turned off.

[FrostyWinnipeg]

27 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

What pings?  From the black boxes?  They searched for the pings immediately but the black boxes dont have the power to send pings through thousands of feet of water if you're not in the basic location of the crash.  The issue is, they dont know exactly where the plane went down because the transponder was turned off.

The pings from the satellite communications. That's how they knew where the plane was going.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analysis_of_Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_370_satellite_communications

Edited April 21, 2017 by FrostyWinnipeg

[The Unknown Poster]

Just now, FrostyWinnipeg said:

The pings from the engines. That's how they knew where the plane was going.

The issue is that the aircraft turned off their transponder but was tracked on radar in a routine manner by certain nations.  Thats how they knew the general direction of the plane after it turned around and had turned off its transponder.  But eventually it flew beyond the radar capabilities.

What you're referring to is the ACARS system which is basically an online messaging system that relays status of the aircraft to the maintenance people.  Its not really used for tracking or anything like that.  If the routine transmissions arent received in a specific period, ground messaging can ping the aircraft to confirm the connection.  So for a period of time the aircraft was relaying these routine messages and/or requesting "log on".

But these messages arent radar and they arent transmitting the planes coordinates.  What investigators did was measure the response time of the messages between the satellites to figure out how much further away it traveled to try and determine where it went down.  And obviously, that was not an exact science.  There were disagreements with the data and determinations. 

So in essence, there was nothing that was pinging the planes location on radar.  Its a guessing game.  Which they have, thus far, got wrong.

[The Unknown Poster]

http://money.cnn.com/2017/08/11/news/mh370-search-resume-us-ocean-infinity/index.html?sr=twCNN081117mh370-search-resume-us-ocean-infinity0545PMStory

Months after the underwater search for Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 was called off, an American company is offering to resume the hunt for the missing airliner.

Ocean Infinity, a Texas-based firm that specializes in seabed exploration technology, told CNNMoney on Friday that it has submitted an offer to search for the remains of the Boeing 777 that disappeared more than three years ago with 239 people on board.

The company declined to reveal the exact terms of the proposal, but said it's willing to "take on the economic risk of a renewed search."

The group said the company expects a "fee" for the search only if it is successful in finding the aircraft's wreckage.

[FrostyWinnipeg]

4 hours ago, The Unknown Poster said:

http://money.cnn.com/2017/08/11/news/mh370-search-resume-us-ocean-infinity/index.html?sr=twCNN081117mh370-search-resume-us-ocean-infinity0545PMStory

Months after the underwater search for Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 was called off, an American company is offering to resume the hunt for the missing airliner.

Ocean Infinity, a Texas-based firm that specializes in seabed exploration technology, told CNNMoney on Friday that it has submitted an offer to search for the remains of the Boeing 777 that disappeared more than three years ago with 239 people on board.

The company declined to reveal the exact terms of the proposal, but said it's willing to "take on the economic risk of a renewed search."

The group said the company expects a "fee" for the search only if it is successful in finding the aircraft's wreckage.

Surprised its not TIGHAR and i bet they would go during an American winter.

[FrostyWinnipeg]

http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/10/asia/mh370-ocean-infinity-search-intl

[The Unknown Poster]

24 minutes ago, FrostyWinnipeg said:

http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/10/asia/mh370-ocean-infinity-search-intl

So the Australian government concluded previous searches were in the wrong area.  They have a new area to search which this company, Ocean Infinity, will do.  And they have newer and higher tech underwater drones to do it with.  They can get $20 million- $70 million if they find it but have to do so within 90 days.  They must be pretty confident.  Let's hope it works out...

The cockpit voice recorder likely will be of no help.  But the Data recorder should be a lot of help.

[FrostyWinnipeg]

http://nationalpost.com/news/world/conspiracy-theorists-go-wild-as-mh370-search-vessel-goes-missing-for-three-days

Edited February 7, 2018 by FrostyWinnipeg

[The Unknown Poster]

Coming up on 4 years since the disappearance.  March 8th.

My interest has been reignited.  I just read a book about the disappearance.  So Ill make a long post with some thoughts...

The first post of this thread outlined by two theories.  I said most likely it was a mechanical failure and my "wild theory" was pilot suicide.  We have some more information since then and Im leaning stronger to pilot suicide.

I actually hate to say that because I dont want to assume the Captain murdered everyone without more evidence.  And the mechanical failure accounts for *some* of the weirdness.  But it just doesnt fit.  So Ill update my two thories:

Mechanical Failure:

- The last verbal communication was 1:19am.  The transponder was lost at 1:21.  For it to be a mechanical failure it means an incredible coincidence of something happening that severely damaged the communications systems within that two minutes.  Almost immediately, the aircraft began a slow turn back and adjusted altitude, possibly as high as 45,000 feet and then back down to normal.  It dropped very low near Penang where one of the pilot's cell phones pinged a cell tower. 

- There are two possibilities for mechanical failure - depressurization and fire.  If they suffered a sudden depressurization, the pilots would immediately turn back and drop altitude to allow passengers to breath and to prepare for a quick landing.  While the plane turned back, it did not drop altitude.  In fact it increased.  If the sudden depressurization allowed the pilots to make an immediate turn back but then over-came then (perhaps their oxygen was not working), you have a ghost plane scenario.  However, the aircraft made as many as 8 course corrections.  The plane would have continued on auto-pilot to its programmed destination and then held until running out of fuel.  Surely the pilots did not program an odd route that ended in the South Indian Ocean as part of an immediate plan to land quickly.  In fact, programming the flight computer takes times.

A more likely depressurization scenario would be a slow depressurization.  This happened on a Helios flight a few years ago.  Its somewhat terrifying actually.  In that instance, the flight had been reported due to a hissing sound coming from a galley door.  Ground crew did some testing which included pressurizing and depressurizing the cabin.  How it works is, there is a knob in the cockpit that reads "manual" and "auto".  Its to be on "auto" which results in the plane automatically maintaining cabin pressure.  In this instance, after their testing  ground crew left the knob on "manual".  For some reason, the pilots did not catch this during their pre-flight checks.  So the cabin never pressurized.

As they ascended, everyone was slowly starved of Oxygen without realizing it.  In the passenger cabin, oxygen masks automatically drop and a warning message in english is announced when the pressure drops below a certain amount.  This happened.  So the passengers donned their masks.  It provides about 20 minutes of oxygen.  In the cockpit, not realizing they were suffering hypoxia, the pilots did nothing and passed out.  The passengers would have been unaware that the plane was not being controlled and would have slowly passed out after about 20 minutes.

Of course, this did not impact communication equipment and the plane was never lost on radar.  When the pilots would not respond, fighter jets were scrambled.  They observed passengers unconscious, one pilot unconscious (the other they could not see) and one person, shockingly, walking about the cabin.  This was one of the flight attendants and he was using a portable oxygen canister which has much more oxygen in it.  He entered the cockpit and waved at the fighter jets before sitting at the controls.  Amazingly, he was a student pilot, though not trained on a large passenger jet.  Regardless, it was too late and the engines failed due to lack of fuel and crashed.

If this happened on MH370 it *might* explain an odd route programmed into the computer if the pilots were suffering hypoxia.  It might even explain them turning off the transponder.  But it doesnt explain the multiple course changes and even the programming and turning off the transponder would be an odd thing to do based on how little time (mere minutes) of usable consciousness they'd have.  And of course, the pilot sounded perfectly fine when he radio'ed at 1:19.

Depressurization doesnt fit.

Most people who subscribe to the mechanical failure scenario believe it was a fire.  The plane was carrying a lot of lithium batteries which have caused fire before.  The problem with the fire scenario is, fires dont put themselves out and aircraft generally crash within about 20 minutes of a fire being detected.  A fire would essentially have had to occure in the equipment bay and take out the communication equipment.  It would have to do so during that two minutes after last verbal communication. 

A fire might explain why the pilot would climb to 45,000 feet, to attempt to starve the fire of oxygen.  It does not explain why or how the plane would continue to make course changes and end up in the Indian Ocean.  Keep in mind, SATCOM was *not* turned off.  So a fire would have had to attack specific communication elements that would render the plane invisible but miss SATCOM.  And not impact any other elements of flying the aircraft.  Plus, put itself out and leave the plane perfectly air-worthy Highly unlikely.

That leaves only:

Malicious Intent:

- Hijacking.  Highly unlikely  A hijacker would have to gain access to the cockpit.  And even if they could time it perfectly to happen in the dead zone between signing off Malaysian ATC and before signing into the next ACT), they'd have to access the cockpit and subdue the pilots without any mayday call.  Pilots have ways of conveying messages without verbal communication (changing transponder to squawk a hijack code).  All passengers were reportedly cleared of suspicion after the fact.

- Pilot suicide.  This is really the only possibility that fits everything we know.  And here's how it happened.

The captain suggests the co-pilot take a break.  Not unusual.  He signs off Malaysian ATC.  He then turns off the transponder and begins a turn back.  The co-pilot would be locked out of the cockpit.  Its possible the Captain would allow the passengers to survive but it seems unlikely,  The plan flew for another 7 hours or so and you'd essentially have 238 people including the co-pilot and several engineers trying to break into the cockpit.  Its very very hard to do but with that kind of time and motivation, you never know.  Plus, you'd have every person on board trying to make cell phone calls (only one cell phone pinged a cell tower) and you'd have to hope no one has a SAT phone.

More likely, the Captain donned his oxygen and depressurized the cabin.  His climbing to 45,000 feet would be to put the passengers out fast, likely 30 seconds.  Oxygen masks would still drop but remember, it only allows 20 minutes of air.  And even less at higher altitudes as the masks are not designed to force air into your body.  This was a middle of the night flight and usually cabin lights are dimmed and temperature set warm to encourage sleep.  So imagine waking up to a commotion, confused and suffering low oxygen...if yu even woke up at all.  Especially with English not being the primary language for most passengers.

With the passengers taken care of, the Captain skirts between countries.  He doesnt know for sure he wont be spotted on military radar and in fact we know he was.  But he's relying on no one knowing what the blip is and not taking it seriously. 

The low spin around Penang is interesting.  Its the Captain's home town.  Was he taking a look at his hometown?  That when the cell phone pinged.  It did this because the airplane was low enough to connect to a cell tower.  There is no evidence a call was made (its possible it was attempted but unsuccessful).  But this implies an attempt by the Captain to communicate.  Even if his transponder was "broken" and verbal communication impossible, he still at the SATCOM which was operating fine.  He never attempted to use it.

He skirted nations, making appropriate course changes as needed until satisfied he was not detected.  He then programmed a southerly route into the computer and let the Auto Pilot take over.  The proposed route by investigators indicates the plane flew generally along established waypoints.  Most likely on auto pilot. 

The question is, did the Pilot remove his mask and allow himself to slowly pass out from oxygen, did he stay conscious until the plane crashed or did he pilot it and attempt a controlled ditch?

The recovered debris indicates flaps were not set for landing.  This *likely* means a crash although it isnt certain. Engines never failure at the same time as they burn fuel at slightly different paces.  So one flames out.  Autopilot is able to adjust to accommodate this.  When the engines begin to fail the back up power unit comes on.  This makes sense as Satellite received a log-on message indicating a power reboot (probably when the engines flamed out).  When both engines are out and there is no power, the RAT deploys (the "fan" that drops from underneath to provide basic power, famously used in the Gimli Glider situation).  But the plane would be unable to sustain itself and would disconnect autopilot, eventually stall out and death spiral into the sea.

If the Captain was at the controls, he could glide the plane for a significant distance and attempt a controlled ditching.  He might do this if 1) he wants to die but cant bring himself for whatever reason to just crash 2) to try to disappear the plane by allowing the body of the craft to sink intact. 

Pilot suicide it is.

[FrostyWinnipeg]

It's been a slow news month for our plane. Best I can find.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5515207/Australian-claims-tracked-flight-MH370-Google-Earth.html

Edited March 20, 2018 by FrostyWinnipeg

[The Unknown Poster]

Yup very slow news on this front

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5853330/mh370-alien-theories-doomsday/

[FrostyWinnipeg]

Not big but at least it's real news.

https://www.airlineratings.com/news/mh370-search-ship-returns-port-resupply/

[kelownabomberfan]

On ‎3‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 10:09 AM, The Unknown Poster said:

Coming up on 4 years since the disappearance.  March 8th.

My interest has been reignited.  I just read a book about the disappearance.  So Ill make a long post with some thoughts...

The first post of this thread outlined by two theories.  I said most likely it was a mechanical failure and my "wild theory" was pilot suicide.  We have some more information since then and Im leaning stronger to pilot suicide.

I actually hate to say that because I dont want to assume the Captain murdered everyone without more evidence.  And the mechanical failure accounts for *some* of the weirdness.  But it just doesnt fit.  So Ill update my two thories:

Mechanical Failure:

- The last verbal communication was 1:19am.  The transponder was lost at 1:21.  For it to be a mechanical failure it means an incredible coincidence of something happening that severely damaged the communications systems within that two minutes.  Almost immediately, the aircraft began a slow turn back and adjusted altitude, possibly as high as 45,000 feet and then back down to normal.  It dropped very low near Penang where one of the pilot's cell phones pinged a cell tower. 

- There are two possibilities for mechanical failure - depressurization and fire.  If they suffered a sudden depressurization, the pilots would immediately turn back and drop altitude to allow passengers to breath and to prepare for a quick landing.  While the plane turned back, it did not drop altitude.  In fact it increased.  If the sudden depressurization allowed the pilots to make an immediate turn back but then over-came then (perhaps their oxygen was not working), you have a ghost plane scenario.  However, the aircraft made as many as 8 course corrections.  The plane would have continued on auto-pilot to its programmed destination and then held until running out of fuel.  Surely the pilots did not program an odd route that ended in the South Indian Ocean as part of an immediate plan to land quickly.  In fact, programming the flight computer takes times.

A more likely depressurization scenario would be a slow depressurization.  This happened on a Helios flight a few years ago.  Its somewhat terrifying actually.  In that instance, the flight had been reported due to a hissing sound coming from a galley door.  Ground crew did some testing which included pressurizing and depressurizing the cabin.  How it works is, there is a knob in the cockpit that reads "manual" and "auto".  Its to be on "auto" which results in the plane automatically maintaining cabin pressure.  In this instance, after their testing  ground crew left the knob on "manual".  For some reason, the pilots did not catch this during their pre-flight checks.  So the cabin never pressurized.

As they ascended, everyone was slowly starved of Oxygen without realizing it.  In the passenger cabin, oxygen masks automatically drop and a warning message in english is announced when the pressure drops below a certain amount.  This happened.  So the passengers donned their masks.  It provides about 20 minutes of oxygen.  In the cockpit, not realizing they were suffering hypoxia, the pilots did nothing and passed out.  The passengers would have been unaware that the plane was not being controlled and would have slowly passed out after about 20 minutes.

Of course, this did not impact communication equipment and the plane was never lost on radar.  When the pilots would not respond, fighter jets were scrambled.  They observed passengers unconscious, one pilot unconscious (the other they could not see) and one person, shockingly, walking about the cabin.  This was one of the flight attendants and he was using a portable oxygen canister which has much more oxygen in it.  He entered the cockpit and waved at the fighter jets before sitting at the controls.  Amazingly, he was a student pilot, though not trained on a large passenger jet.  Regardless, it was too late and the engines failed due to lack of fuel and crashed.

If this happened on MH370 it *might* explain an odd route programmed into the computer if the pilots were suffering hypoxia.  It might even explain them turning off the transponder.  But it doesnt explain the multiple course changes and even the programming and turning off the transponder would be an odd thing to do based on how little time (mere minutes) of usable consciousness they'd have.  And of course, the pilot sounded perfectly fine when he radio'ed at 1:19.

Depressurization doesnt fit.

Most people who subscribe to the mechanical failure scenario believe it was a fire.  The plane was carrying a lot of lithium batteries which have caused fire before.  The problem with the fire scenario is, fires dont put themselves out and aircraft generally crash within about 20 minutes of a fire being detected.  A fire would essentially have had to occure in the equipment bay and take out the communication equipment.  It would have to do so during that two minutes after last verbal communication. 

A fire might explain why the pilot would climb to 45,000 feet, to attempt to starve the fire of oxygen.  It does not explain why or how the plane would continue to make course changes and end up in the Indian Ocean.  Keep in mind, SATCOM was *not* turned off.  So a fire would have had to attack specific communication elements that would render the plane invisible but miss SATCOM.  And not impact any other elements of flying the aircraft.  Plus, put itself out and leave the plane perfectly air-worthy Highly unlikely.

That leaves only:

Malicious Intent:

- Hijacking.  Highly unlikely  A hijacker would have to gain access to the cockpit.  And even if they could time it perfectly to happen in the dead zone between signing off Malaysian ATC and before signing into the next ACT), they'd have to access the cockpit and subdue the pilots without any mayday call.  Pilots have ways of conveying messages without verbal communication (changing transponder to squawk a hijack code).  All passengers were reportedly cleared of suspicion after the fact.

- Pilot suicide.  This is really the only possibility that fits everything we know.  And here's how it happened.

The captain suggests the co-pilot take a break.  Not unusual.  He signs off Malaysian ATC.  He then turns off the transponder and begins a turn back.  The co-pilot would be locked out of the cockpit.  Its possible the Captain would allow the passengers to survive but it seems unlikely,  The plan flew for another 7 hours or so and you'd essentially have 238 people including the co-pilot and several engineers trying to break into the cockpit.  Its very very hard to do but with that kind of time and motivation, you never know.  Plus, you'd have every person on board trying to make cell phone calls (only one cell phone pinged a cell tower) and you'd have to hope no one has a SAT phone.

More likely, the Captain donned his oxygen and depressurized the cabin.  His climbing to 45,000 feet would be to put the passengers out fast, likely 30 seconds.  Oxygen masks would still drop but remember, it only allows 20 minutes of air.  And even less at higher altitudes as the masks are not designed to force air into your body.  This was a middle of the night flight and usually cabin lights are dimmed and temperature set warm to encourage sleep.  So imagine waking up to a commotion, confused and suffering low oxygen...if yu even woke up at all.  Especially with English not being the primary language for most passengers.

With the passengers taken care of, the Captain skirts between countries.  He doesnt know for sure he wont be spotted on military radar and in fact we know he was.  But he's relying on no one knowing what the blip is and not taking it seriously. 

The low spin around Penang is interesting.  Its the Captain's home town.  Was he taking a look at his hometown?  That when the cell phone pinged.  It did this because the airplane was low enough to connect to a cell tower.  There is no evidence a call was made (its possible it was attempted but unsuccessful).  But this implies an attempt by the Captain to communicate.  Even if his transponder was "broken" and verbal communication impossible, he still at the SATCOM which was operating fine.  He never attempted to use it.

He skirted nations, making appropriate course changes as needed until satisfied he was not detected.  He then programmed a southerly route into the computer and let the Auto Pilot take over.  The proposed route by investigators indicates the plane flew generally along established waypoints.  Most likely on auto pilot. 

The question is, did the Pilot remove his mask and allow himself to slowly pass out from oxygen, did he stay conscious until the plane crashed or did he pilot it and attempt a controlled ditch?

The recovered debris indicates flaps were not set for landing.  This *likely* means a crash although it isnt certain. Engines never failure at the same time as they burn fuel at slightly different paces.  So one flames out.  Autopilot is able to adjust to accommodate this.  When the engines begin to fail the back up power unit comes on.  This makes sense as Satellite received a log-on message indicating a power reboot (probably when the engines flamed out).  When both engines are out and there is no power, the RAT deploys (the "fan" that drops from underneath to provide basic power, famously used in the Gimli Glider situation).  But the plane would be unable to sustain itself and would disconnect autopilot, eventually stall out and death spiral into the sea.

If the Captain was at the controls, he could glide the plane for a significant distance and attempt a controlled ditching.  He might do this if 1) he wants to die but cant bring himself for whatever reason to just crash 2) to try to disappear the plane by allowing the body of the craft to sink intact. 

Pilot suicide it is.

Thanks for that.  Very interesting.  I am still leaning toward aliens, but you made me at least re-think my position.

[FrostyWinnipeg]

https://www.airlineratings.com/news/mh370-search-vessel-back-case/

[The Unknown Poster]