Bombers negotiate Transit game day discount

[The Unknown Poster]

Back when he was first running for Mayor, I remember my grandmother telling me about how she knew people that knew him, and knew that he was involved in illegal activities. Lotta under-the-table stuff going on with him. I've never lived in Wpg, so I'm certainly not one to weigh-in on the merits of Sammy as Mayor, but I've always been leery...

There was always something fishy about the Riverside Park arrangement.  Katz formed the company to act as a non-profit lease holder for Shaw Park and parking lots it leased from the city for $1, then in turn sublet to the Goldeyes, which Katz owned.  Money seemed to go back and forth between the two entities.  Riverside was supposed to pay property tax on the parking lots but mysteriously were left off for a few years.

 

Katz promised to put the Goldeyes in a blind trust when he ran for Mayor and then when he won he broke the promise saying essentially "oh well".

[The Unknown Poster]

The issue here isn't one of "subsidy" but rather one of "surcharge"   The Bombers are willing to pay full regular price for transit on behalf on their customers.  If you take the bus to the Library, it's $5.10 return.   If you take the bus to work, it's $5.10 return.  If you take the bus to the university, it's $5.10 return.  If you take the bus to a Jet game, it's $5.10 return.  

 

I don't think that taking a bus to a Bomber game should cost more than $5.10 return, regardless of who is paying the bill.

Exactly.  Transit might argue that they have increased costs due to OT for the operators.  But factoring in everything, I dont think its an unrealistic ask by the Bombers (especially since, it seems, it wasnt an ask at all, it was offered by the city until Sammy got his panties in a bunch).

[Rich]

The issue here isn't one of "subsidy" but rather one of "surcharge" The Bombers are willing to pay full regular price for transit on behalf on their customers. If you take the bus to the Library, it's $5.10 return. If you take the bus to work, it's $5.10 return. If you take the bus to the university, it's $5.10 return. If you take the bus to a Jet game, it's $5.10 return.

I don't think that taking a bus to a Bomber game should cost more than $5.10 return, regardless of who is paying the bill.

I'm definitely in the camp that agrees that the Bombers should be charged to going rate. However there is a subsidy in that. The money you pay transit doesn't cover their costs. They are subsidized.

For the examples you sited, they pretty much use the regular existing transit system. For the arena, this is the benefit of being downtown.

For the Bombers there isn't sufficient "regular" buses to bring people to the game. So there is additional costs incurred to shuttle all those people in and out. So there is an additional cost to the city and tax payer.

However, public transportation exists for this very reason. The city will have a traffic nightmare if there aren't enough buses to bring people in and out. Providing this infrastructure is part of their responsibility for the safety of its citizens and those that live in the area.

[Adrenaline_x]

 

 

 

 

Approximately $500k; the difference between $6 and $11 per Bomber fan that needs public transportation, all season long. Good on the Bombers BOD for not playing Sammy's game.

Actually, David Asper and Brock Bulbuck spent $500,000 of the Bombers' money to maintain full control over the Board.

Shame on the BOD for allowing their personal issues to cost the club this much money.

So you think it was a good idea to allow Sammy to abuse his power and force one of his (unqualified as he has no connections to the City of Winnipeg) buddies onto the Bombers BOD, in exchange for $500,000 in taxpayer dollars? Okay.

What difference does it make??? If they get someone from the City of Winnipeg, it is still going to be one of Sam Katz's friends. You know, since he is the Mayor of the city? All this is, is the Board of Directors pissing money down the drain because the three guys in charge can't allow someone else with money and influence onto their Board.

So you think the BOD should just be spineless and play into Sammy's criminal game? The BOD recommended 3 individuals with the City of Winnipeg, based on their position within the City and their qualifications. Sammy has ignored the Bombers on those recommendations. Thankfully Sammy's only got a few months left.

 

So much bias in this thread lol.

 

But with your comment specifically, I think I rather Sammy place a guy on the board that would do what's in the best interest of the city or even Sammy, then have another Boyz club member to go along with the rest.

 

Sorry but after following the team for the past 27 years, I've decided the bod manages the team like a playtoy instead of running it like a profitable business. If it was their own money on the line and we're paying out pocket for losses, the team would have made a lot different decisions.

[Mr Dee]

This is the internet.  Saying bad things about people you've never met is considered par for the course.  By some.

 

 

 

I'm glad I don't golf on that course!

[The Unknown Poster]

There is no indication that the BOD rejected Rabb for anything other than their stated reasons which were very reasonable.

 

The BOD made three suggestions to Sammy about city appointed members.  Sammy rejected their three suggestions and countered with one name.  Who's being reasonable.  If Sammy didnt like the BOD names, he could have submitted his own list.

 

Lawless admitted that Rabb, while being a passionate Bombers fan, is extremely outspoken and ruffles feathers.  Im not sure that "passionate Bombers fan" should be the leading prerequisite to sitting on the BOD.  I want qualified people that have the best interests of the business at heart.  Remember, Asper himself got in trouble for being too passionate a fan.  A lot of people turned on Asper after he was unable to build the Stadium but he was well liked by many before then.  I just dont get this "old boys club" schtick that people apply to the BOD. 

 

If the BOD felt it was inapproproate for a non-city staffer to hold the city's position on the BOD, so be it.  If they personally didnt like Rabb to the extent that he would have been difficult to work with, that is not an insigificant consideration either.

[TBURGESS]

[The Unknown Poster]

 

Thats a funny way to minimize the issue.  But if dropping the charters and relying on regular transit service to service the games, then it wont be funny to a whole lot of people namely, IGF patrons, IGF staff, residents of South Winnipeg and all routes feeding into the south, anyone requiring emergency services during these times, etc etc

[mbrg]

The issue here isn't one of "subsidy" but rather one of "surcharge"   The Bombers are willing to pay full regular price for transit on behalf on their customers.  If you take the bus to the Library, it's $5.10 return.   If you take the bus to work, it's $5.10 return.  If you take the bus to the university, it's $5.10 return.  If you take the bus to a Jet game, it's $5.10 return.  

 

I don't think that taking a bus to a Bomber game should cost more than $5.10 return, regardless of who is paying the bill.

And that is what it would cost if you just took the bus the regular way, but because the Bombers offer free game day bus service they have to enter into an agreement with transit.  So if the Bombers ended that agreement and told fans to take the bus the regular fare-paying way, then handed them a five dollar bill when they got off the bus at the stadium, they would save that half million per year.  The visual on that is a bit off-putting - handing out money on the street as a means of saving money because of civic government decisions.

 

I don't think the city owes the Bombers any special treatment.  On the other hand, what is the purpose of transit?  To move the citizens of Winnipeg around for a minimal cost, to move them around with a minimal environmental impact, and to keep drunks from getting behind the wheel, among other reasons.  Why do these reasons not apply for transit riders going to Bomber games?  These bus rides still meet all those criteria and still serve the citizenry of Winnipeg.

 

The telling point to me is that transit agreed to reducing the rate for the Bombers, presumably for those very reasons, and the City choose to overrule transit's decision.  The buses don't serve the Bombers, they serve the citizens of Winnipeg.  This seems like a terrible decision and one that has Katz's spite at it's roots.

[The Unknown Poster]

Charge $1.50 per ticket for "Public Transportation Initiative".  30,000 people X 10 events = $450,000/year.  The Bombers eat the rest.  Then everyone shares the cost whether you use transit or ride your bike or drive your car.

 

But yes, if the Bombers made a deal with Transit and Transit approves of said deal, who in the blue **** is Sam Katz to over-rule it?

[Super Duper Negatron]

 

I know this was meant as a joke, but surely you know that the issue isn't the "free" part. First, the service provided was essentially a shuttle service (Park and Ride), with direct routes to the stadium that aren't provided by the city's regular bus routes. Eliminating this service means people have to take a regular city bus, which from some locations is damn near impossible, and from others is extremely impractical. A system where the fans are asked to pony up the difference between what the Bombers are willing to pay and what the city is asking would be great, if it weren't for the fact that the city said a "pay" shuttle is not possible (for reasons that escape me now).

[blitzmore]

Katz had Bomber season tickets in our section last year.   He often left early and didn't show up to all games, but at least he supported the club.

 

Everyone pretty much left him alone, but I wonder if the same would be said this year.  Won't be able to find out or say anything to him as we've moved sections.

Rich,

 

And do you think that he actually paid for those tickets with his own money? And do you think he took the bus, or got dropped off by his driver?

[Rich]

 

Katz had Bomber season tickets in our section last year.   He often left early and didn't show up to all games, but at least he supported the club.

 

Everyone pretty much left him alone, but I wonder if the same would be said this year.  Won't be able to find out or say anything to him as we've moved sections.

Rich,

 

And do you think that he actually paid for those tickets with his own money? And do you think he took the bus, or got dropped off by his driver?

 

 

No idea if they were his personal seats or belonged to the city.  Likely they were expensed to one of his businesses.  

 

And no, I don't think he took the bus.  But if he did, at least he got to ride for free last year. 

[The Unknown Poster]

People really have no idea how slimy Sam is.  Well, people *do* but it goes very deep.  I was told (and Im sure this is verifiable) that he owned (or was otherwise involved in ownership) the bathouse that burned down a few years ago where someone died.  Look at the Riverside Park Management fiasco and how he got away with not paying property taxes for years.  Or how he was Mayor and Owner of RPM during a financial dispute.  Shady shady shady.  And this is totally up his ally.  I for one commend the BOD for having the guts to stand up to Sammy because, if what I was told is true, some people who have stood up to him get paid a visit from his ahem friends.

[Mr Dee]

The city never has been good in making decisions in regards to Transit...in any way, shape or form, be it LRT, BRT or. in this case, just making, and sticking to deals made.

The point is not really whether Bomber fans ride free or not, (as long as somebody pays,) but rather trying to provide a necessary service at a reasonable cost, that will help alleviate some of the traffic concerns.

The city should be doing everything it can to address this issue instead of sitting back and letting it just come about.

 

There is a major traffic issue and instead of a "I'll sit this one out attitude" they should be leaders and help get it resolved.

Why is Miller the only one trying to do this?

Transit is willing to work with Miller…they just need some backing from City Hall.

Pathetic really, if you think about it.

 

[TBURGESS]

 

 

I know this was meant as a joke, but surely you know that the issue isn't the "free" part. First, the service provided was essentially a shuttle service (Park and Ride), with direct routes to the stadium that aren't provided by the city's regular bus routes. Eliminating this service means people have to take a regular city bus, which from some locations is damn near impossible, and from others is extremely impractical. A system where the fans are asked to pony up the difference between what the Bombers are willing to pay and what the city is asking would be great, if it weren't for the fact that the city said a "pay" shuttle is not possible (for reasons that escape me now).

 

It was meant as a joke...  It's sorta 'funny' cuz it's true  Everyone agrees that a bus service of some sort is needed.  The Bombers don't want to pay for it.  The city doesn't want to pay for it.  The fans don't want to pay for it.  Everyone seems to think it's someone else's responsibility. 

 

Bus service in the cities I've lived in (Winnipeg, Calgary, Vancouver, Merida) are similar.  Good on some routes, bad on others, and damn near impossible on the rest.  Sure, you can take the train in Calgary and Vancouver, but most people have to get to it first, which makes it the same as taking a bus to a second bus to get to the stadium.  Some bars in the Canadian cities offer shuttle services to the stadium for a fee.

 

I shake my head and sometimes do a face palm when I see how entitled folks in Winnipeg think they are.  

[road griller]

Is there not an image problem with school busses?

Not just Bombers games, but are people going to pay a lot of money for events like Banjo Bowl, Grey Cup, NHL Hockey and then ride a .

I took a school bus from the Silver Heights for the Banjo Bowl no big deal for the 30 minute ride or so.

Pretty sure most would not care as long as the park and rides are set up properly and the people get to the games swiftly and hassle free.

The added bonus of knowing the proceeds go directly to equipment for the kids at school would surely make it a possitive thing. I would make sure every bus had a banner showing what the money is doing.

Not everyone has kids in school but most people are Aunties, Uncles Grandparents ect. who will see the benefits.

[B-F-F-C]

I wonder if plan b is the team contract with a local school bus company and charge a fee for a return trip and have numerous park and ride locations around town.  I'm not sure about the economics of it but I think a full size  bus holds somewhere around 60 - 70 people. At $8 a person that's anywhere between $500 - $600.   I would think that would cover a considerable portion of the cost.  And maybe the bus company gets gratis advertising for a reduction in fee.

[JuranBoldenRules]

I wonder if plan b is the team contract with a local school bus company and charge a fee for a return trip and have numerous park and ride locations around town.  I'm not sure about the economics of it but I think a full size  bus holds somewhere around 60 - 70 people. At $8 a person that's anywhere between $500 - $600.   I would think that would cover a considerable portion of the cost.  And maybe the bus company gets gratis advertising for a reduction in fee.

 

That's too expensive for a school bus ride IMO.  Plus there isn't really a school bus company in Winnipeg that could handle the demand if it keeps up from last year, they'd basically have to contract every private bus in the city, and there aren't a lot of them because every school division has their own giant fleet.  If that's something that ends up happening, they are going to have major problems selling tickets long-term.  Tack $80 onto the cost of your season ticket essentially if you're planning to use the bus.  They'd probably be better off just raising ticket prices to pay for it in terms of optics.

[The Unknown Poster]

This isnt about the Bombers not wanting to pay for it or the city not wanting to pay for it.  The city wants a reduction in the charter price.  Thats reasonable since a) its a 'public asset' they buy in bulk c) it serves the interests of transit to get more people on busses and out of cars d) it serves the interests of the city since it's the city that will suffer the traffic woes.

[Goalie]

all im going to add, is when is the next election? if people don't like whats going on at city hall, well next election get out and change it... 

 

it's hard to complain about the mayor and all the councillors when we the people are the ones who put them in that position to begin with.

 

Don't like it, next election... don't vote for any of them. New blood all around is needed at city hall.

[blueandgoldguy]

Seems to be a little bit of tunnel vision going on here with regards to the reason for the city's about-face in providing the Bombers with gameday transit - BOD's refusal to select Katz friend Rabb as a member of the board.

 

Kives looks at it from a different angle - Sam's reluctance to provide funding to both the Football Club and True North in the past.

 

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/local/fish-owner-needs-to-be-careful-what-he-says-260878741.html

 

From the article:

 

The mayor is correct when he says the city offers the Bombers a lot of moolah. The non-profit football club is entitled to a rebate on all the entertainment taxes it collects -- estimated at $1.25 million this season -- plus a property-tax exemption.

The city also contributed $7.5 million in cold cash toward the construction of Investors Group Field and will forgo slightly less than half of the first $75 million in property taxes it collects from new developments at the Canad Inns Stadium site to help pay back a $160-million provincial stadium-building loan.

But is the mayor pleased about this? Over the years, he hasn't exactly been enthusiastic about city-provincial funding for both the Winnipeg Football Club and True North Sports & Entertainment, which owns the Winnipeg Jets.

[Goalie]

Seems to be a little bit of tunnel vision going on here with regards to the reason for the city's about-face in providing the Bombers with gameday transit - BOD's refusal to select Katz friend Rabb as a member of the board.

 

Kives looks at it from a different angle - Sam's reluctance to provide funding to both the Football Club and True North in the past.

 

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/local/fish-owner-needs-to-be-careful-what-he-says-260878741.html

 

From the article:

 

The mayor is correct when he says the city offers the Bombers a lot of moolah. The non-profit football club is entitled to a rebate on all the entertainment taxes it collects -- estimated at $1.25 million this season -- plus a property-tax exemption.

The city also contributed $7.5 million in cold cash toward the construction of Investors Group Field and will forgo slightly less than half of the first $75 million in property taxes it collects from new developments at the Canad Inns Stadium site to help pay back a $160-million provincial stadium-building loan.

But is the mayor pleased about this? Over the years, he hasn't exactly been enthusiastic about city-provincial funding for both the Winnipeg Football Club and True North Sports & Entertainment, which owns the Winnipeg Jets.

but he seems to be ok with his goldeyes getting a bunch of tax breaks... man that guy needs to go now.

[Guest]

 

Seems to be a little bit of tunnel vision going on here with regards to the reason for the city's about-face in providing the Bombers with gameday transit - BOD's refusal to select Katz friend Rabb as a member of the board.

 

Kives looks at it from a different angle - Sam's reluctance to provide funding to both the Football Club and True North in the past.

 

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/local/fish-owner-needs-to-be-careful-what-he-says-260878741.html

 

From the article:

 

The mayor is correct when he says the city offers the Bombers a lot of moolah. The non-profit football club is entitled to a rebate on all the entertainment taxes it collects -- estimated at $1.25 million this season -- plus a property-tax exemption.

The city also contributed $7.5 million in cold cash toward the construction of Investors Group Field and will forgo slightly less than half of the first $75 million in property taxes it collects from new developments at the Canad Inns Stadium site to help pay back a $160-million provincial stadium-building loan.

But is the mayor pleased about this? Over the years, he hasn't exactly been enthusiastic about city-provincial funding for both the Winnipeg Football Club and True North Sports & Entertainment, which owns the Winnipeg Jets.

but he seems to be ok with his goldeyes getting a bunch of tax breaks... man that guy needs to go now.

 

Not even including all the subsidies that the Jets receive every year (north of $11 million), plus transit.

[Goalie]

 

 

Seems to be a little bit of tunnel vision going on here with regards to the reason for the city's about-face in providing the Bombers with gameday transit - BOD's refusal to select Katz friend Rabb as a member of the board.

 

Kives looks at it from a different angle - Sam's reluctance to provide funding to both the Football Club and True North in the past.

 

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/local/fish-owner-needs-to-be-careful-what-he-says-260878741.html

 

From the article:

 

The mayor is correct when he says the city offers the Bombers a lot of moolah. The non-profit football club is entitled to a rebate on all the entertainment taxes it collects -- estimated at $1.25 million this season -- plus a property-tax exemption.

The city also contributed $7.5 million in cold cash toward the construction of Investors Group Field and will forgo slightly less than half of the first $75 million in property taxes it collects from new developments at the Canad Inns Stadium site to help pay back a $160-million provincial stadium-building loan.

But is the mayor pleased about this? Over the years, he hasn't exactly been enthusiastic about city-provincial funding for both the Winnipeg Football Club and True North Sports & Entertainment, which owns the Winnipeg Jets.

but he seems to be ok with his goldeyes getting a bunch of tax breaks... man that guy needs to go now.

 

Not even including all the subsidies that the Jets receive every year (north of $11 million), plus transit.

 

 

The one thing with that is the jets bring so much good publicity to the city, we are now considered to be part of the "big leagues", we weren't b4 the jets came back. Jets do a lot for this community, not saying the bombers dont but... the jets basically put the city on the world (north american) map again.