Washington Redskins Urged to Change Team Name

[The Unknown Poster]

This is an interesting subject that dovetails with the Sterling news.

 

You can google for all the different detailed news stories.  But House Majority leader Harry Reid and several members of congress signed a petition asking Redskins owner Daniel Snyder to change the team name as it is derogatory towards Aboriginals.

 

I listened to TSN1290 discuss this last week and Troy Westwood was very passionate about the idea it should changed. 

 

Question is, at what point are names like this racist and derogatory and after Redskins is changed, will attention be turned to names like Blackhawks, Indians, Braves etc?

[mbrg]

Every team will claim they're honoring/celebrating the natives/tribe as their rebuttal.  In a few instances it's even true, but very few.  Most teams just wanted to put a scary warface on their jerseys and didn't give it much thought one way or the other.  Redskins is so breathtakingly racist it boggles the mind that people argue otherwise.

[Brandon]

I don't know why they wouldn't change the name. It gives them a prime chance to rebrand and sell a whole lot of new merch with tonnes of free advertising.

It's not like Redskins was a great brand.

[comedygeek]

While I don't agree, I can see the argument behind more generic-sounding (but still culturally-appropriating AT BEST) names like "Braves" and "Blackhawks". But the term "Redskins" is so blatantly racist that it's sad there are so many defenders of the team keeping the name.

 

Why don't we start there and then re-assess.

 

The idea that, "If we change their name, when does it end?" is kind of BS anyway. It's like saying, "If we let black people eat in our restaurant, where does it end?" Like let's not stop doing bad things, because there's a small chance it may over time maybe possibly lead to going too far the other way.

[road griller]

The Washington Rough Riders.  Problem solved.

[Rich]

Deleted a few posts in this thread.  Let's try to keep this on topic and not devolve into racial slurs and what may or may not be common place.

[iso_55]

I'm NOT for changing it. I agree it's not the nicest name but people are way too sensitive & politically correct these days. It seems everything out there offends someone. The NFL won't change the name. Goodell will say f**k y*u just because he can. Same with Dteam an Snyder because I believe most Redskins fans don't want the name changed either.

Unless someone sues the league & it goes all the way to the US Supreme Court & they order it to change. Somehow, even if it went that high, I just can't see the American Chief Justices doing that. The only way to hurt the Redskins & the NFL & force them to change the name are for fans to quit buying RG3 jerseys as well as other Washington gear. Hurt Dan Snyder & the NFL in the pocketbook. But that won't happen especially if RG3 has a bounce back year. 

[The Unknown Poster]

I'm NOT for changing it. I agree it's not the nicest name but people are way too sensitive & politically correct these days. It seems everything out there offends someone. The NFL won't change the name. Goodell will say f**k y*u just because he can. Same with Dteam an Snyder because I believe most Redskins fans don't want the name changed either.

Unless someone sues the league & it goes all the way to the US Supreme Court & they order it to change. Somehow, even if it went that high, I just can't see the American Chief Justices doing that. The only way to hurt the Redskins & the NFL & force them to change the name are for fans to quit buying RG3 jerseys as well as other Washington gear. Hurt Dan Snyder & the NFL in the pocketbook. But that won't happen especially if RG3 has a bounce back year. 

You wont mind a team called the N-Bombs then right?  because afterall, there is "something out there" that "offends someone".  Thats the worst excuse for every bad thing anyone has ever done.

 

I read a thread about this on another message board (American based) where it seemed most of the posters didnt want the name changed (or it was a pretty close split).  The arguement against a name change was mainly similar to you - "too politically correct nowadays", "people are too sensitive".

 

If someone you loved was subjected to slurs like "Redskin" on a regular basis, how would you feel?  Someone in that other thread made the point "I've been called Redskin and no, it was never in an 'honourable' way".

 

I actually think some of the Aboriginal based names are absolutely because of the honourable, fighting warriror spirit.  But "Redskins" isn't one of them.  I think it's possible that they intended to convey the fighting aspect of Native Americans using a word that was "acceptable" at the time.  But it's not acceptable now nor has it been acceptable for a long time.

 

Redskins is so clearly, obviously and completely ridiculously derogatory that the fact the NFL and their media partners and sponsors of the team havent censored it already is almost as mindblowing as the fact the owner wants to keep the name.  If the franchise truly was all about honouring Native American's, they would work with Aboriginal groups to find a name that is more in line with that culture.

 

If Snyder had half a brain he'd see the big bags of money just waiting for him to do the right thing.

 

And right now today, I dont see any reason to change Blackhawks or Braves.  "Indians" Im not sure about.  It seems to be a derogatory term in Canada (though most Aboriginals I know refer to themselves as Indians) but is far more accepted in the US.

[mbrg]

There are places on the internet that have already changed the name for them - they're now called the Washington Racial Slurs.

 

Dan Snyder is awful and I have no problems with making that their new name.  Simply never reference them by the old name again.

[The Unknown Poster]

There are places on the internet that have already changed the name for them - they're now called the Washington Racial Slurs.

 

Dan Snyder is awful and I have no problems with making that their new name.  Simply never reference them by the old name again.

Im not even sure what his argument to keeping the name is.

 

The team trots out some weird statistic that 80% of people want to keep the name.  I read someone's response to that being there was a time when 80% of people would have supported slavery too but it doesnt make it right.  If 20% of people find the name offensive, that's an enormous amount.

 

I can only assume the main argument is "tradition" and the cost to change brands.  I think the free publicity surrounding a name change would outweigh the cost of doing so.

 

The team *did* change lyrics to their fight song in the 1980's so its not like this franchise isnt aware they were being derogatory in the past.

 

Original lyrics:

 

Hail to the Redskins!

Hail, victory!

Braves on the warpath!

Fight for Old D.C.!

Scalp 'em, swamp 'um

We will take 'um big score

Read 'um, Weep 'um, touchdown

We want heap more

Fight on, fight on, till you have won

Sons of Washington

Rah! Rah! Rah!

 

I mean, really....

[iso_55]

As long as the Redskin fanbase are okay with it, nothing will change for Snyder. And like I said before, Roger Goodell is probably the most arrogant & pompous sports administrator in the world today. As long as the money keeps coming in, he doesn't care.

[iso_55]

 

I'm NOT for changing it. I agree it's not the nicest name but people are way too sensitive & politically correct these days. It seems everything out there offends someone. The NFL won't change the name. Goodell will say f**k y*u just because he can. Same with Dteam an Snyder because I believe most Redskins fans don't want the name changed either.

Unless someone sues the league & it goes all the way to the US Supreme Court & they order it to change. Somehow, even if it went that high, I just can't see the American Chief Justices doing that. The only way to hurt the Redskins & the NFL & force them to change the name are for fans to quit buying RG3 jerseys as well as other Washington gear. Hurt Dan Snyder & the NFL in the pocketbook. But that won't happen especially if RG3 has a bounce back year. 

You wont mind a team called the N-Bombs then right?  because afterall, there is "something out there" that "offends someone".  Thats the worst excuse for every bad thing anyone has ever done.

 

I read a thread about this on another message board (American based) where it seemed most of the posters didnt want the name changed (or it was a pretty close split).  The arguement against a name change was mainly similar to you - "too politically correct nowadays", "people are too sensitive".

 

If someone you loved was subjected to slurs like "Redskin" on a regular basis, how would you feel?  Someone in that other thread made the point "I've been called Redskin and no, it was never in an 'honourable' way".

 

I actually think some of the Aboriginal based names are absolutely because of the honourable, fighting warriror spirit.  But "Redskins" isn't one of them.  I think it's possible that they intended to convey the fighting aspect of Native Americans using a word that was "acceptable" at the time.  But it's not acceptable now nor has it been acceptable for a long time.

 

Redskins is so clearly, obviously and completely ridiculously derogatory that the fact the NFL and their media partners and sponsors of the team havent censored it already is almost as mindblowing as the fact the owner wants to keep the name.  If the franchise truly was all about honouring Native American's, they would work with Aboriginal groups to find a name that is more in line with that culture.

 

If Snyder had half a brain he'd see the big bags of money just waiting for him to do the right thing.

 

And right now today, I dont see any reason to change Blackhawks or Braves.  "Indians" Im not sure about.  It seems to be a derogatory term in Canada (though most Aboriginals I know refer to themselves as Indians) but is far more accepted in the US.

 

Please, don't be stupid. There are no teams called the N bombs. Like I said before, you want a discussion, then discuss. Which always seems to be a problem with when someone disagrees with you. 

[mbrg]

 

Please, don't be stupid. There are no teams called the N bombs. Like I said before, you want a discussion, then discuss. Which always seems to be a problem with when someone disagrees with you. 

Then perhaps you could explain why this derogatory name used to identify an ethnicity by the colour of its skin is different.

[The Unknown Poster]

 

 

I'm NOT for changing it. I agree it's not the nicest name but people are way too sensitive & politically correct these days. It seems everything out there offends someone. The NFL won't change the name. Goodell will say f**k y*u just because he can. Same with Dteam an Snyder because I believe most Redskins fans don't want the name changed either.

Unless someone sues the league & it goes all the way to the US Supreme Court & they order it to change. Somehow, even if it went that high, I just can't see the American Chief Justices doing that. The only way to hurt the Redskins & the NFL & force them to change the name are for fans to quit buying RG3 jerseys as well as other Washington gear. Hurt Dan Snyder & the NFL in the pocketbook. But that won't happen especially if RG3 has a bounce back year. 

You wont mind a team called the N-Bombs then right?  because afterall, there is "something out there" that "offends someone".  Thats the worst excuse for every bad thing anyone has ever done.

 

I read a thread about this on another message board (American based) where it seemed most of the posters didnt want the name changed (or it was a pretty close split).  The arguement against a name change was mainly similar to you - "too politically correct nowadays", "people are too sensitive".

 

If someone you loved was subjected to slurs like "Redskin" on a regular basis, how would you feel?  Someone in that other thread made the point "I've been called Redskin and no, it was never in an 'honourable' way".

 

I actually think some of the Aboriginal based names are absolutely because of the honourable, fighting warriror spirit.  But "Redskins" isn't one of them.  I think it's possible that they intended to convey the fighting aspect of Native Americans using a word that was "acceptable" at the time.  But it's not acceptable now nor has it been acceptable for a long time.

 

Redskins is so clearly, obviously and completely ridiculously derogatory that the fact the NFL and their media partners and sponsors of the team havent censored it already is almost as mindblowing as the fact the owner wants to keep the name.  If the franchise truly was all about honouring Native American's, they would work with Aboriginal groups to find a name that is more in line with that culture.

 

If Snyder had half a brain he'd see the big bags of money just waiting for him to do the right thing.

 

And right now today, I dont see any reason to change Blackhawks or Braves.  "Indians" Im not sure about.  It seems to be a derogatory term in Canada (though most Aboriginals I know refer to themselves as Indians) but is far more accepted in the US.

 

Please, don't be stupid. There are no teams called the N bombs. Like I said before, you want a discussion, then discuss. Which always seems to be a problem with when someone disagrees with you. 

 

Incorrect.  Im the first person ready for an intelligent discussion.  Its when stupidity and hyperbole conspire that I get dismissive.

 

"There is always someone offended about something" is about the most ludicrous reason to keep doing something that some find offensive. 

 

Generally, common sense can be a good measuring stick to most things.  To some "Redskins" is on part with "N*****" as a racial slur.  It can be difficult for white people (which I am, I dont know about you) to fully comprehend how offensive a slur can be.  I dont find the name "Braves" offensive but I would be intrigued by any discussion in that regard by people who do.  But "Redskins" is so absurdly derogatory that I think the reason its still used is the sheer ridiculousness of it and the sheer audacity of the owners and league to keep it. 

 

I think it's so offensive that no one wants to admit an NFL team has been using a racial slur for decades by changing it so they resist.  The fact is, whatever tradition that team has is engrained in the franchise, not it's name.  This isnt the same as if some lunatic said "Jets" offended him because he was deathly afraid of flying.  Redskins *is* a racial slur used everyday by people to insult others. 

 

The name must be changed.  The *only* arguments I've seen so far is "tradition" and "people are too sensitive".  Actually, the best argument I've read hasnt even surfaced here yet so Ill help out the people on that side - the belief that "Redskin" was a term used by everyone, including Native Americans and was never meant in a derogatory fashion.  There are historical records that reference use of "White Skins" and "Red Skins" in talking about Native Americans and white people.

 

Then again, it wasnt long ago that some businesses had signs up that said "No Indians or dogs allowed", but we didnt subscribe to "tradition" in that respect.  An enlightened people admit when they are wrong.  Snyder should apologize and change the name.

[The Unknown Poster]

 

 

Please, don't be stupid. There are no teams called the N bombs. Like I said before, you want a discussion, then discuss. Which always seems to be a problem with when someone disagrees with you. 

Then perhaps you could explain why this derogatory name used to identify an ethnicity by the colour of its skin is different.

 

Dont hold your breath waiting for that explanation.  For the losing side of a debate, its much easier to attack the messenger than the message.

[iso_55]

Wow, saying I don't agree with changing the name makes me a racist? Totally ridiculous. Did you read what Rich said about racial slurs & to keep the conversation civil? I don't think I'm losing the conversation any more than you acting like an idiot. Looks like you've hijacked this thread to suit your agenda & beware anyone who disagrees with you. Whether you like it or not, others can have a differing opinion to what you think.

[The Unknown Poster]

Wow, saying I don't agree with changing the name makes me a racist? Totally ridiculous. Did you read what Rich said about racial slurs & to keep the conversation civil? I don't think I'm losing the conversation any more than you acting like an idiot. Looks like you've hijacked this thread to suit your agenda & beware anyone who disagrees with you. Whether you like it or not, others can have a differing opinion to what you think.

So....whats your opinion then?  Who called you a racist?  Who hijacked the thread?  You're the one that turned it into a debate about me rather than a debate about the issue.  What racial slur, Redskins?

[iso_55]

 

Wow, saying I don't agree with changing the name makes me a racist? Totally ridiculous. Did you read what Rich said about racial slurs & to keep the conversation civil? I don't think I'm losing the conversation any more than you acting like an idiot. Looks like you've hijacked this thread to suit your agenda & beware anyone who disagrees with you. Whether you like it or not, others can have a differing opinion to what you think.

So....whats your opinion then?  Who called you a racist?  Who hijacked the thread?  You're the one that turned it into a debate about me rather than a debate about the issue.  What racial slur, Redskins?

 

I didn't hijack the thread. All I said was that I think there's too much political correctness in the world & something always pisses someone off. Maybe I'm right or maybe I'm wrong. If you think I'm wrong then debate with me in a civil manner & try to convince me of your opinion. I also said that the only way the NFL changes the name is if fans stop buying Redskin gear. Money is the only thing Goodell & the NFL understand. How is that hijacking a thread? This is my third or fourth post in the entire thread. Thanks to you, I wish now I never would have posted anything.

[The Unknown Poster]

 

 

Wow, saying I don't agree with changing the name makes me a racist? Totally ridiculous. Did you read what Rich said about racial slurs & to keep the conversation civil? I don't think I'm losing the conversation any more than you acting like an idiot. Looks like you've hijacked this thread to suit your agenda & beware anyone who disagrees with you. Whether you like it or not, others can have a differing opinion to what you think.

So....whats your opinion then?  Who called you a racist?  Who hijacked the thread?  You're the one that turned it into a debate about me rather than a debate about the issue.  What racial slur, Redskins?

 

I didn't hijack the thread. All I said was that I think there's too much political correctness in the world & something always pisses someone off. Maybe I'm right or maybe I'm wrong. If you think I'm wrong then debate with me in a civil manner & try to convince me of your opinion. I also said that the only way the NFL changes the name is if fans stop buying Redskin gear. Money is the only thing Goodell & the NFL understand. How is that hijacking a thread? This is my third or fourth post in the entire thread. Thanks to you, I wish now I never would have posted anything.

 

 Ill be honest, I know I have strong opinions which is why I love a good debate with intelligent people and I almost always enjoy your posts on here.  Im just pushing you to be even more thoughtful on the issue. 

 

I agree that sometimes political correctness goes too far.  You could be right about the NFL not caring until it impacts their merch sales (I dont know the politics of the NFL nearly well enough to argue that point).  But changing the name could also be a financial windfall.

 

Redskins is just too obvious in a way Braves & Blackhawks aren't.  It's politically incorrect to say "Indian".  Its racist to say Redskin.  I think thats the difference on this one.

[mbrg]

Wow, saying I don't agree with changing the name makes me a racist?

Having read and re-read his post I don't see that stated or even implied anywhere.  In the off chance I'm missing it could you quote and highlight that part for me?

 

My question was a genuine one - why do you feel this term, which is difficult to argue isn't negative, which most definitely and literally identifies an ethnicity by the colour of skin should be considered completely different?  And yes, I certainly hope your opinion will have more substance to it than a dislike of PC police, but it doesn't have to.

[Brandon]

Redskins is only a racial term for old people...

The kids associate the name to football and RG3.

Once again the Browns is a much more racist name.

[The Unknown Poster]

Redskins is only a racial term for old people...

The kids associate the name to football and RG3.

Once again the Browns is a much more racist name.

I hope you're kidding.

 

The Browns were named after their first coach Paul Brown *or* Joe Louis.  The issue would be if "Brown Bomber" is considered racist as a nickname for Joe Louis.  Im not sure it is but I've never really thought about it (or even knew that was his nickname to be honest).

[mbrg]

Depending on who you believe the Browns were either named after Paul Brown, the original coach, GM and part owner of the Browns

 

or

 

Named after Joe "the Brown Bomber" Louis, and most definitely in homage of him as the greatest boxer in the world at that time.

 

So where do you want to take this?  That it's option B but that the team was somehow insulting Louis?  Or that the nickname Louis had was bad and the team should have nothing to do with it?  For what it's worth I've never heard of Louis being insulted by his own nickname, but that doesn't mean it wasn't the case.  And if so, what should the Blue Bombers do, as their name is also a homage to Joe Louis, with the difference being our jerseys are blue while the Browns are brown?

 

Here's a whole bunch of doors; I'm curious to see which ones you pick and why.  Extra points if you can bring this around to boxing smurfs.

[The Unknown Poster]

Depending on who you believe the Browns were either named after Paul Brown, the original coach, GM and part owner of the Browns

 

or

 

Named after Joe "the Brown Bomber" Louis, and most definitely in homage of him as the greatest boxer in the world at that time.

 

So where do you want to take this?  That it's option B but that the team was somehow insulting Louis?  Or that the nickname Louis had was bad and the team should have nothing to do with it?  For what it's worth I've never heard of Louis being insulted by his own nickname, but that doesn't mean it wasn't the case.  And if so, what should the Blue Bombers do, as their name is also a homage to Joe Louis, with the difference being our jerseys are blue while the Browns are brown?

 

Here's a whole bunch of doors; I'm curious to see which ones you pick and why.  Extra points if you can bring this around to boxing smurfs.

great minds think alike...

 

On it's face "Brown Bomber" is not insulting.  if anything it's intent is to commend and celebrate Joe Louis' ability.  I cant imagine anyone calling him (or anyone else) a "Brown Bomber" in a derogatory manner.  One can assume he accepted, embraced or had something to do with the name.  But I really dont know if thats the case.

 

History seems to contend the name "Browns" had a dual purpose though with their first head coach.  So, I'd go with Browns not being racist.  And if you want to argue that, it certainly isnt "much more racist" than "Redskins".  One is a slur.  The other isnt.

[Brandon]

Redskins is only a racial term for old people...

The kids associate the name to football and RG3.

Once again the Browns is a much more racist name.

I hope you're kidding.

The Browns were named after their first coach Paul Brown *or* Joe Louis. The issue would be if "Brown Bomber" is considered racist as a nickname for Joe Louis. Im not sure it is but I've never really thought about it (or even knew that was his nickname to be honest).

Brown is a racial name for east Indian people.

Fighting Irish is also a pretty harsh name that should be changed.

The Cleveland Indians not only have a racist logo, they aren't even depicting the correct people. It should be The Cleveland Natives.

Tonnes of teams can be looked at and scrutinized.