Argos' Future In Limbo

[kelownabomberfan]

This is just MLSE trying to get some extra government funding.

Good luck with that MLSE.

[Guest]

The Wynne government (Ontario Liberals) have already told MLSE that if they win the election MLSE will get their money.

[Tracker]

The Wynne government (Ontario Liberals) have already told MLSE that if they win the election MLSE will get their money.

Quelle surprise! But welcome.

[Guest]

uh oh spaghettios

 

Bob McCown ‏@FadooBobcat

MLSE will not buy Argos and move them to BMO. Asking price was 10 million+ percentage of future Grey Cup revenue. Deal is dead.

 

[Rich]

The percentage of future Grey Cups is a ridiculous ask.  The team needs that revenue to even have a chance of breaking even.

[iso_55]

Well, they can go play all their games at varsity in front of 5,000 people sellouts I guess. 

[Fatty Liver]

I think the stadium issue will be hashed out eventually but the best thing for the Argos in my eyes is if they end up under the umbrella of MLSE.  That is the only organization in Toronto that has the money and marketing power to keep the Argos on life support.  A private owner has no chance of turning that ship around.  In my mind it's going to take a marketing miracle to make the Argos and the CFL popular again in T.O.. 

[Fatty Liver]

On the same thought line...I've noticed over the last 20 years the CFL has developed the stigma of becoming a feeder league for the NFL with all of the best players constantly looking Southward.   Didn't used to be that way or it at least it wasn't so obvious.  To me this has diminished the image of the product and that is probably the biggest problem in T.O. right now.  I think this trend can be connected with the one and two year contracts the players are signed to now which allows for a quick escape once they've demonstrated capability.  Cream of the crop developed in Canada is now skimmed off from the draft on up and thus star power and player continuity is diminished. 

 

Wish we could hold the best players here with 3-5 year contracts but realize the difficulties of making that happen, I'm well aware that you can't turn back time.  I think the NFL used to take more of a big brother/hands off approach to the CFL but now it seems to enjoy picking the apples without providing the orchard with any fertilizer.

[DR. CFL]

Unfortunately the NFL feeder system just got enhanced by the elimination of the option year clause. At least when the NFL window was there you had a chance of getting a layer back for his option year.

[Tracker]

We've been here before- again and again with the Argos staggering from one crisis to another. The new stadium will be built, in all likelihood, and that ought to give the team a decent chance of becoming both profitable and attractive to fans. MLSE has the ability to market the team well, so they would seem to be the best option, but the current owner needs a jolt of reality.

[OldSchoolBlue]

I've always wondered if the cfl would be better served by having 2 (or more) teams in Toronto. It's a different way to look at it for sure but it seems to me that individual teams in Mississauga, Etobicoke, North York, Scarborough (or whatever divisions make sense) would do as good or better than the Argos. Of course, that ignores the obvious question of where these teams would play, but the Montreal model of 20-25k seems to be doing OK.

[JuranBoldenRules]

On the same thought line...I've noticed over the last 20 years the CFL has developed the stigma of becoming a feeder league for the NFL with all of the best players constantly looking Southward.   Didn't used to be that way or it at least it wasn't so obvious.  To me this has diminished the image of the product and that is probably the biggest problem in T.O. right now.  I think this trend can be connected with the one and two year contracts the players are signed to now which allows for a quick escape once they've demonstrated capability.  Cream of the crop developed in Canada is now skimmed off from the draft on up and thus star power and player continuity is diminished. 

 

Wish we could hold the best players here with 3-5 year contracts but realize the difficulties of making that happen, I'm well aware that you can't turn back time.  I think the NFL used to take more of a big brother/hands off approach to the CFL but now it seems to enjoy picking the apples without providing the orchard with any fertilizer.

 

Not even close to being the problem in Toronto.  I'd bet substantially that this problem has not even made it into any discussions on Toronto.

 

You really believe that losing Armond Armstead or Chad Rempel was noticed in Toronto by the guy with 2 kids who might buy tickets to 1-2 games a season, and that's keeping the fans away? 

 

Here's the problem.  1. They play in a facility that is horrible for football.  2. They play in a facility where they are treated as fourth class tenants, meaning they get the crappiest dates.  3. They play in a facility that is generally far from their casual fanbase in the suburbs.  4. That crappy facility is evicting them.  At the moment, this is the biggest problem.  

 

There is a public and political lack of appetite to contribute further to sports facilities after the Pan Am Games, so rather than getting an ideal facility in a suburb like Markham off a 400 highway, the Argos have to piggyback on MLSE at BMO Field just to have a place to play.  Will BMO go over with the casual fans they need to attract?  Probably not.  Atmosphere will be better, but the prospect of storms off the lake could interfere with a number of games each season.  BMO is a little easier to drive to (still relying on the Gardiner for suburban fans though) than the dome, but worse by transit, basically the same as the dome plus a streetcar ride.

[bluto]

all part of the dance.

 

Rogers is just using their approved channel (McCown) to fire another warning shot across the Feds and League's bows. The part of BMO that could make it CFL-adaptable wouldn't have to be started on until almost the end of the renovation as a whole (think like 2016).

 

figures and timetables have been pretty much agreed to between the team, MLSE, city and province... this last bit is the prospective owner trying to squeeze a bit more out of the Feds and league (as is their right and frankly they are smart to do it now)

 

i honestly feel like there's nothing to see here.

[Fatty Liver]

 

On the same thought line...I've noticed over the last 20 years the CFL has developed the stigma of becoming a feeder league for the NFL with all of the best players constantly looking Southward.   Didn't used to be that way or it at least it wasn't so obvious.  To me this has diminished the image of the product and that is probably the biggest problem in T.O. right now.  I think this trend can be connected with the one and two year contracts the players are signed to now which allows for a quick escape once they've demonstrated capability.  Cream of the crop developed in Canada is now skimmed off from the draft on up and thus star power and player continuity is diminished. 

 

Wish we could hold the best players here with 3-5 year contracts but realize the difficulties of making that happen, I'm well aware that you can't turn back time.  I think the NFL used to take more of a big brother/hands off approach to the CFL but now it seems to enjoy picking the apples without providing the orchard with any fertilizer.

 

Not even close to being the problem in Toronto.  I'd bet substantially that this problem has not even made it into any discussions on Toronto.

 

You really believe that losing Armond Armstead or Chad Rempel was noticed in Toronto by the guy with 2 kids who might buy tickets to 1-2 games a season, and that's keeping the fans away? 

 

Here's the problem.  1. They play in a facility that is horrible for football.  2. They play in a facility where they are treated as fourth class tenants, meaning they get the crappiest dates.  3. They play in a facility that is generally far from their casual fanbase in the suburbs.  4. That crappy facility is evicting them.  At the moment, this is the biggest problem.  

 

There is a public and political lack of appetite to contribute further to sports facilities after the Pan Am Games, so rather than getting an ideal facility in a suburb like Markham off a 400 highway, the Argos have to piggyback on MLSE at BMO Field just to have a place to play.  Will BMO go over with the casual fans they need to attract?  Probably not.  Atmosphere will be better, but the prospect of storms off the lake could interfere with a number of games each season.  BMO is a little easier to drive to (still relying on the Gardiner for suburban fans though) than the dome, but worse by transit, basically the same as the dome plus a streetcar ride.

 

 I understand all the other issues at hand with ownership and playing facilities but I guess what I should have said is the biggest "underlying problem" in T.O. is the CFL's image as a second rate league.  No reason (other than all the reasons you stated!) in a city that size that they couldn't have season ticket sales of 30,000 on a regular basis considering the teams they've put together in the past 5 years.  Relying on the fan that attends one or two games a year is a crap shoot as the life blood of survival is season ticket sales. 

 

I think there is some merit to the idea of establishing a regional team or teams in some of the bigger suburbs if the fan logistics and facility issues are positive.

[mbrg]

The percentage of future Grey Cups is a ridiculous ask.  The team needs that revenue to even have a chance of breaking even.

 

"Here's a franchise that's been losing money since before most of us were born.  It makes money once every 5 years by hosting the Grey Cup.  For Sale.  As Is.  Except the money-making part.  Keeping that."

[Guest]

all part of the dance.

 

Rogers is just using their approved channel (McCown) to fire another warning shot across the Feds and League's bows. The part of BMO that could make it CFL-adaptable wouldn't have to be started on until almost the end of the renovation as a whole (think like 2016).

 

figures and timetables have been pretty much agreed to between the team, MLSE, city and province... this last bit is the prospective owner trying to squeeze a bit more out of the Feds and league (as is their right and frankly they are smart to do it now)

 

i honestly feel like there's nothing to see here.

From the beginning it has always sounded as though MLSE didn't really want the Argos, just use them to get the BMO face-lift (which is now happening without the Argos involved) and eventually bringing the wet/pipe dream of the NFL.

 

Braley has absolutely zero leverage in this, he wants to sell, nobody wants to own. IIRC there was one radio interview that I heard Commissioner Cohon even stating that they were begging/trying to convince MLSE to buy the team. Honestly considering how crappy the potential lease agreement is and knowing how much Rogers loathes the CFL it sucks that MLSE is the only option, because I could see the Argos dying quickly under them, although they're dying as is anyways.

[Nasty Nate]

 

all part of the dance.

 

Rogers is just using their approved channel (McCown) to fire another warning shot across the Feds and League's bows. The part of BMO that could make it CFL-adaptable wouldn't have to be started on until almost the end of the renovation as a whole (think like 2016).

 

figures and timetables have been pretty much agreed to between the team, MLSE, city and province... this last bit is the prospective owner trying to squeeze a bit more out of the Feds and league (as is their right and frankly they are smart to do it now)

 

i honestly feel like there's nothing to see here.

From the beginning it has always sounded as though MLSE didn't really want the Argos, just use them to get the BMO face-lift (which is now happening without the Argos involved) and eventually bringing the wet/pipe dream of the NFL.

 

Braley has absolutely zero leverage in this, he wants to sell, nobody wants to own. IIRC there was one radio interview that I heard Commissioner Cohon even stating that they were begging/trying to convince MLSE to buy the team. Honestly considering how crappy the potential lease agreement is and knowing how much Rogers loathes the CFL it sucks that MLSE is the only option, because I could see the Argos dying quickly under them, although they're dying as is anyways.

 

Perhaps the key is for TSN to acquiesce and give Rogers the rights to broadcast all Argo games. Wouldn't be that bad a concession, would it? Of course, Rogers would have to pick up the cash difference lost by TSN giving them Argo TV rights.

[Jacquie]

 

 

all part of the dance.

 

Rogers is just using their approved channel (McCown) to fire another warning shot across the Feds and League's bows. The part of BMO that could make it CFL-adaptable wouldn't have to be started on until almost the end of the renovation as a whole (think like 2016).

 

figures and timetables have been pretty much agreed to between the team, MLSE, city and province... this last bit is the prospective owner trying to squeeze a bit more out of the Feds and league (as is their right and frankly they are smart to do it now)

 

i honestly feel like there's nothing to see here.

From the beginning it has always sounded as though MLSE didn't really want the Argos, just use them to get the BMO face-lift (which is now happening without the Argos involved) and eventually bringing the wet/pipe dream of the NFL.

 

Braley has absolutely zero leverage in this, he wants to sell, nobody wants to own. IIRC there was one radio interview that I heard Commissioner Cohon even stating that they were begging/trying to convince MLSE to buy the team. Honestly considering how crappy the potential lease agreement is and knowing how much Rogers loathes the CFL it sucks that MLSE is the only option, because I could see the Argos dying quickly under them, although they're dying as is anyways.

 

Perhaps the key is for TSN to acquiesce and give Rogers the rights to broadcast all Argo games. Wouldn't be that bad a concession, would it? Of course, Rogers would have to pick up the cash difference lost by TSN giving them Argo TV rights.

 

 

There is absolutely no reason for TSN to give Rogers anything. FYI - Bell Media is a part owner of MLSE just like Rogers. No way would the League agree to something like that and, from a practical, technical and every other aspect it couldn't be done even if they wanted to do it (with either Rogers or Leafs TV). Besides, Rogers has made it very clear they don't want to broadcast CFL games.