Training camp report June 12

[HardCoreBlue]

 

Did I mention Hall looks horrible today? Brohm looking better as practice goes on.

Hall has the weakest arm of the bunch, the really windy days won't be his friend.

 

I hope Brohm makes some kind of push now.  Keeping a bunch of really good players will help this team get better.  Discarding the crapiest players and keeping the guys who win jobs by default does not help this team get better.  If Brohm can finally start forcing the issue OShea will have the good kind of hard choice to make.

 

I've read this statement a lot here, and, as someone not to familar with levels of arm strength as a QB, I would tend to agree based on my observations of his play.

For arguments sake, let's say this is true. So, in a passing league like the CFL, where it's standard to throw a forty-yard out with zip, does his other skills make-up for this limitation?

Yes he's appears decisive but that becomes tempered on some plays with a weaker arm, no? He seems like a good guy who loves playing the game but I'm not feeling it with him. I hope, as I sometimes am, completley wrong and he plays at the level required to run the offense we employ this year.

[mbrg]

There will be a point where throwing Marve into the fire will benefit him and his understanding of CFL coverages.  I doubt he's there after 2 weeks of training camp.  He has responded well to the limited challenges he's faced so far.  That's a positive but let's not lose perspective.

[Mr. Perfect]

 Hall is kinda like Glenn. Serviceable, but not capable of carrying the team on his own. He gets the ball to the receivers and let's them make plays. Hall does not have a cannon but it's not as weak as most suggest

You'll never confuse me for a Kevin Glenn fan but Hall is nothing in any way, shape or form like Kevin Glenn.

[mbrg]

 

 

Did I mention Hall looks horrible today? Brohm looking better as practice goes on.

Hall has the weakest arm of the bunch, the really windy days won't be his friend.

 

I hope Brohm makes some kind of push now.  Keeping a bunch of really good players will help this team get better.  Discarding the crapiest players and keeping the guys who win jobs by default does not help this team get better.  If Brohm can finally start forcing the issue OShea will have the good kind of hard choice to make.

 

I've read this statement a lot here, and, as someone not to familar with levels of arm strength as a QB, I would tend to agree based on my observations of his play.

For arguments sake, let's say this is true. So, in a passing league like the CFL, where it's standard to throw a forty-yard out with zip, does his other skills make-up for this limitation?

Yes he's appears decisive but that becomes tempered on some plays with a weaker arm, no? He seems like a good guy who loves playing the game but I'm not feeling it with him. I hope, as I sometimes am, completley wrong and he plays at the level required to run the offense we employ this year.

 

Weakest arm of the bunch is a relative statement.  He gets some grief for that but I'm pretty sure he can put enough zip on the ball to knock a tooth out of my face while I'm standing 15 yards away from him and explaining his lack of arm strength to him.

 

A strong arm allows a QB to force balls into tight coverage before the DB can react.  That sounds like a good thing, and it can be, but it can also be a crutch for QBs who aren't good at reading coverage, or a problem for QBs who think they can throw the ball hard enough to beat any coverage.  Known as a Bishop.  When a QB understands the CFL better he knows which passes are available to him on any given play.  Sometimes the out pass will be there for Hall, sometimes it won't.  He has to be smart enough to see it.  He seems pretty cerebral in his approach.  Last year he was a CFL rookie.  He had lot of NFL experience but history has shown that doesn't mean much.  He picked it all up pretty quick and ended up as our best QB last year (not saying much) despite being a rookie and having a "weak arm".

 

The goal is to win games this year, not accumulate the most project players.  Odds are that Hall as our backup gives us a better chance to do that than the other two, at least in the short term.  There is plenty of camp left to see what kind of challenge Brohm can put up.  Sounds like he mounted one today.

[Floyd]

Except Hall rarely takes the out pass...  

[gbill2004]

Do you think Mahar will need to adjust his punting style from more hang time to distance and placement. He's been punting in the US all his life and they put more of an emphasis on hang time.

Each got 4 punts. Renaud's were all right around the 20 yard line...consistent. Maher's first 2 were terrible, right around the 40 yard line. Then O'Shea yelled something at him and Maher's last 2 were like Renaud's, around the 20 yard line; one might have even been at the 17.

[Mr. Perfect]

Did Lirim punt at all?

[17to85]

arm strength is the most over rated things people talk about when it comes to qbs. It's a nice tool to have but it is far from the most important thing to worry about with a qb. Brains and accuracy are far far more important than being able to throw the ball really hard. 

[gbill2004]

Did Lirim punt at all?

No.

[Mr. Perfect]

arm strength is the most over rated things people talk about when it comes to qbs. It's a nice tool to have but it is far from the most important thing to worry about with a qb. Brains and accuracy are far far more important than being able to throw the ball really hard. 

Bless you sir.

[Floyd]

I love how its impossible for bombers fans to consider the fact that we should find a QB with brains, accuracy and a strong arm...  Its actually not an 'either or' scenario.

[Noeller]

Yeah, exactly...there's about a dozen Ricky Ray/Doug Flutie/Dave Dickson's kicking around down south just looking for a place to play. Why don't we bring in THOSE guys???

[pigseye]

Kemp was one of the few who stood out to me against TO, hope they can find a spot for him.

[Fatty Liver]

 

 

 

Did I mention Hall looks horrible today? Brohm looking better as practice goes on.

Hall has the weakest arm of the bunch, the really windy days won't be his friend.

 

I hope Brohm makes some kind of push now.  Keeping a bunch of really good players will help this team get better.  Discarding the crapiest players and keeping the guys who win jobs by default does not help this team get better.  If Brohm can finally start forcing the issue OShea will have the good kind of hard choice to make.

 

I've read this statement a lot here, and, as someone not to familar with levels of arm strength as a QB, I would tend to agree based on my observations of his play.

For arguments sake, let's say this is true. So, in a passing league like the CFL, where it's standard to throw a forty-yard out with zip, does his other skills make-up for this limitation?

Yes he's appears decisive but that becomes tempered on some plays with a weaker arm, no? He seems like a good guy who loves playing the game but I'm not feeling it with him. I hope, as I sometimes am, completley wrong and he plays at the level required to run the offense we employ this year.

 

Weakest arm of the bunch is a relative statement.  He gets some grief for that but I'm pretty sure he can put enough zip on the ball to knock a tooth out of my face while I'm standing 15 yards away from him and explaining his lack of arm strength to him.

 

A strong arm allows a QB to force balls into tight coverage before the DB can react.  That sounds like a good thing, and it can be, but it can also be a crutch for QBs who aren't good at reading coverage, or a problem for QBs who think they can throw the ball hard enough to beat any coverage.  Known as a Bishop.  When a QB understands the CFL better he knows which passes are available to him on any given play.  Sometimes the out pass will be there for Hall, sometimes it won't.  He has to be smart enough to see it.  He seems pretty cerebral in his approach.  Last year he was a CFL rookie.  He had lot of NFL experience but history has shown that doesn't mean much.  He picked it all up pretty quick and ended up as our best QB last year (not saying much) despite being a rookie and having a "weak arm".

 

The goal is to win games this year, not accumulate the most project players.  Odds are that Hall as our backup gives us a better chance to do that than the other two, at least in the short term.  There is plenty of camp left to see what kind of challenge Brohm can put up.  Sounds like he mounted one today.

 

 

I agree with everything you said but I have to admit I'm disappointed in Max's performance so far in TC and the one pre-season game.  His most obvious skill is his ability to move the ball down the field consistently making smart decisions but if that isn't happening...  He came into camp as the underdog and does not seem to have progressed beyond what he showed us last year even though he had an off season to prepare for the challenge.

[blitzmore]

 

 

 

 

Did I mention Hall looks horrible today? Brohm looking better as practice goes on.

Hall has the weakest arm of the bunch, the really windy days won't be his friend.

 

I hope Brohm makes some kind of push now.  Keeping a bunch of really good players will help this team get better.  Discarding the crapiest players and keeping the guys who win jobs by default does not help this team get better.  If Brohm can finally start forcing the issue OShea will have the good kind of hard choice to make.

 

I've read this statement a lot here, and, as someone not to familar with levels of arm strength as a QB, I would tend to agree based on my observations of his play.

For arguments sake, let's say this is true. So, in a passing league like the CFL, where it's standard to throw a forty-yard out with zip, does his other skills make-up for this limitation?

Yes he's appears decisive but that becomes tempered on some plays with a weaker arm, no? He seems like a good guy who loves playing the game but I'm not feeling it with him. I hope, as I sometimes am, completley wrong and he plays at the level required to run the offense we employ this year.

 

Weakest arm of the bunch is a relative statement.  He gets some grief for that but I'm pretty sure he can put enough zip on the ball to knock a tooth out of my face while I'm standing 15 yards away from him and explaining his lack of arm strength to him.

 

A strong arm allows a QB to force balls into tight coverage before the DB can react.  That sounds like a good thing, and it can be, but it can also be a crutch for QBs who aren't good at reading coverage, or a problem for QBs who think they can throw the ball hard enough to beat any coverage.  Known as a Bishop.  When a QB understands the CFL better he knows which passes are available to him on any given play.  Sometimes the out pass will be there for Hall, sometimes it won't.  He has to be smart enough to see it.  He seems pretty cerebral in his approach.  Last year he was a CFL rookie.  He had lot of NFL experience but history has shown that doesn't mean much.  He picked it all up pretty quick and ended up as our best QB last year (not saying much) despite being a rookie and having a "weak arm".

 

The goal is to win games this year, not accumulate the most project players.  Odds are that Hall as our backup gives us a better chance to do that than the other two, at least in the short term.  There is plenty of camp left to see what kind of challenge Brohm can put up.  Sounds like he mounted one today.

 

 

I agree with everything you said but I have to admit I'm disappointed in Max's performance so far in TC and the one pre-season game.  His most obvious skill is his ability to move the ball down the field consistently making smart decisions but if that isn't happening...  He came into camp as the underdog and does not seem to have progressed beyond what he showed us last year even though he had an off season to prepare for the challenge.

 

Actually...Hall has had a very decent camp to date...

[Floyd]

Yeah, exactly...there's about a dozen Ricky Ray/Doug Flutie/Dave Dickson's kicking around down south just looking for a place to play. Why don't we bring in THOSE guys???

 

Ah, the old 'over-blown reaction' post...  in the last years, TO found Collaros, Cal found BLM, BC developed Mike Reilly... these guys do exist.

 

For the record, I think WIlly has a strong arm and brains, accuracy will come.  Marve has all three from what I can see.  Brohm has strength and Hall has 'accuracy'... alone its not enough.

[HardCoreBlue]

arm strength is the most over rated things people talk about when it comes to qbs. It's a nice tool to have but it is far from the most important thing to worry about with a qb. Brains and accuracy are far far more important than being able to throw the ball really hard. 

Agree with the brain and accuracy point, for sure. But because we are specifically talking about Max Hall, I think it's a legitimate issue to keep in mind with him. Obviously it's not the only thing when looking at him. It is though an important piece to the package he needs to bring, not just a 'nice to have' especially in the CFL, and I do appreciate the point msrg made about relative and his ability to knock teeth out at 15 feet.

My all time favorite Blue Bomber Tom Clements didn't have a great arm but had the necessary strength to nicely complement his stellar football smarts and athleticism. Give Tom Clements Max Hall's arm,  don't know, might have influenced his high level of play.

[M.O.A.B.]

Yeah, exactly...there's about a dozen Ricky Ray/Doug Flutie/Dave Dickson's kicking around down south just looking for a place to play. Why don't we bring in THOSE guys???

 

That's because, most probably, those guys are in other teams neg list.

[max power]

 

If Marve put on a show again on Sat, I think the Bombers should just slate him to #2, Brohm to #3, cut Hall and bring a young QB prospect for PR. 

 

How can Hall executes the play well if some schemes need him to throw the ball deep and he can't because of his weak arm?

 

Sounds like a recipe to repeat exactly what we've been doing for 20 years.

 

 

No kidding. When was the last time a QB had any success being even the #2 in his first year in the CFL?  Realistically we shouldn't even be expecting much out of Hall with his 1 year of experience in the CFL.

 

It seems like people just want to hope and pray for a Ricky Ray every single year (including the Bombers management sometimes).

[17to85]

Yeah, exactly...there's about a dozen Ricky Ray/Doug Flutie/Dave Dickson's kicking around down south just looking for a place to play. Why don't we bring in THOSE guys???

Never mind that none of those guys have or had a particularly strong arm... but brains and accuracy oh my stars they were amazing in those aspects. 

[17to85]

Let's be completely honest here folks, there is a better chance that Hall supplants Willy as #1 to start the year than there is of anyone else supplanting Hall as #2 to start the season. 

[gbill2004]

Let's be completely honest here folks, there is a better chance that Hall supplants Willy as #1 to start the year than there is of anyone else supplanting Hall as #2 to start the season.

I disagree with this 100%. I'd say there is zero chance Hall supplants Willy to start the season. I'd say there's at least a 50/50 chance Brohm or Marve supplant Hall.

[sweep the leg]

Let's be completely honest here folks, there is a better chance that Hall supplants Willy as #1 to start the year than there is of anyone else supplanting Hall as #2 to start the season. 

Disagree. This is more or less arguing for the sake of arguing b/c I don't think either will happen, but Willy has already been declared our starter. Hall hasn't been given any assurances that he'll be the backup. We gave something up to get Brohm, so there are clearly people in important positions who think highly of him.

[Mr Dee]

All I know about Max Hall is, he's the only one who came in last year, and he managed to run a patched up O system and be able to move the ball with any kind of effiency.

He actually made decisions and got us first downs and points, while seemingly working with eraser-set Q cards.

He gets a long look, in my books.

[Floyd]

 

Yeah, exactly...there's about a dozen Ricky Ray/Doug Flutie/Dave Dickson's kicking around down south just looking for a place to play. Why don't we bring in THOSE guys???

Never mind that none of those guys have or had a particularly strong arm... but brains and accuracy oh my stars they were amazing in those aspects. 

 

 

What is your definition of 'a strong arm'?  Flutie had a really strong arm, Ray should be considered 'strong' and Dickenson was no slouch.

 

Strong arm does not just mean Michael Bishop or Casey Printers...  

 

Max Hall has a weak arm that is almost guaranteed to result in a couple of INTs per game...  he is not even close to Dickenson or Glenn's arm strength.

 

Nobody is asking for Ricky Ray... but I am asking for a Collaros or Mitchell.